10-Year Visas Now Available: Thai Immigration

[wakeupplease]

5 hours ago, globin said:

I like the picture of the silver haired couple on the spotless and deserted beach...I want a visa for that place, where is it? inside the hollow moon!

Vietnam by the looks of things

[fforest1]

13 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

There are 196 countries in the world. Surely one will not treat you like crap. Please go find that country and live a better life for yourself and the rest of us. Peace

This visa stinks from top to bottom...Its pathetic that after a year 

or 2 of working on it they cant come up with some thing better....

[wakeupplease]

10 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

I won't because I am not stupid enough to apply for this visa.

 

I was in through the Priority Lane at Suvarnabhumi in less than 3 minutes today and on the train in ten. I had a quick look at the queues and reckon there might have been a 20-30 minute wait tops. 

 

I had my secretary doing my 90 day reports for 15+ years but that stopped last February after Immigration started asking for ridiculous bribes to extend the visas for our foreign staff. 

 

Enough was enough. 

 

I could see the writing on the wall and I got out while I still could. 

 

I will have the memories of the 90's and 00's here living like a King and that will never be beaten. 

 

Enjoy yourself in Thailand but it ain't the place it used to be. 

 

 

So many getting out of there I wonder why

[Wake Up]

7 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

I won't because I am not stupid enough to apply for this visa.

 

I was in through the Priority Lane at Suvarnabhumi in less than 3 minutes today and on the train in ten. I had a quick look at the queues and reckon there might have been a 20-30 minute wait tops. 

 

I had my secretary doing my 90 day reports for 15+ years but that stopped last February after Immigration started asking for ridiculous bribes to extend the visas for our foreign staff. 

 

Enough was enough. 

 

I could see the writing on the wall and I got out while I still could. 

 

I will have the memories of the 90's and 00's here living like a King and that will never be beaten. 

 

Enjoy yourself in Thailand but it ain't the place it used to be. 

 

 

No place is the same as it use for be. It is called history and age and not unique to you or me. Read some letters from the 1500s and 1600s and 1700s and you will see your same unique gripes complained about hundreds of years ago. Just enjoy your life and quit bitching. Bitching does  you and me and no one any good. We have it better than 95 percent of all people on the planet. More choices today to live than anywhere on the planet. If you think Thailand has changed and you don't like it then 195 countries left for you to explore. Have fun and spread some cheer. 

[ujayujay]

THB 3 Million on a Thai Bank......heeeelp

[Thingamabob]

A waste of time. Can't imagine anyone will go for this.

[maxpower]

21 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

The country is on the cusp of prolonged civil conflict and economic stagnation.

Hope not, I committed to three more years working here.

[sawadee1947]

5 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

When I read all the requirements for it, I said "Screw that!".  I'll stick with my yearly Retirement.  No big deal.

 

hahahaha,,,,,it's just sour grapes for you

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Quote

BANGKOK — The much awaited 10-year visa for foreign retirees is now available, the top commander of the immigration police said Wednesday. , though staff seem to be unaware of the announcement.

 

Quote

Although the new retirement visa has been available since Friday, Natthathorn said he has not seen any applications come across his desk so far.

 

 

Quote

 

A staff member at the Immigration Division I headquarters in Bangkok was unaware of the change and did not believe the 10-year visas were available. She referred a reporter to the immigration website.

No information about the new visa could readily be found on the site Wednesday.

 

 

Nice to see everything's functioning normally at Immigration....

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Wake Up]

3000 USA dollars a month or 90000 usa dollars in savings. Given the amount of money inflow to Thailand from foreign hedge funds Thailand banks are secure as their dollar and euro reserves are more than anyone but China and Japan in Asia. I will get the 10 year visa. Makes sense for me but understand those that prefer the yearly extensions. The bitchers and moaners probably don't qualify for any of the visas and sorry for you but this is a good deal for those that qualify.  And the 90 day stamp in the mail is so overblown by the bitchers that they are comical. If you can't buy a stamp every 90 days then get a life. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

3000 USA dollars a month or 90000 usa dollars in savings. Given the amount of money inflow to Thailand from foreign hedge funds Thailand banks are secure as their dollar and euro reserves are more than anyone but China and Japan in Asia. I will get the 10 year visa. Makes sense for me but understand those that prefer the yearly extensions. The bitchers and moaners probably don't qualify for any of the visas and sorry for you but this is a good deal for those that qualify.  And the 90 day stamp in the mail is so overblown by the bitchers that they are comical. If you can't buy a stamp every 90 days then get a life. 

 

Just keep in mind that the Thai government's deposit insurance for Thai bank accounts is due to drop to 1 million baht per account starting in about 3 years in August 2020.

 

http://www.dpa.or.th/main.php?filename=index___EN

 

Another example of the left hand not knowing or caring what the right hand is doing here.

 

[nasanews]

Thailand does not want people who work inside the kingdom to make a living or those barely make enough steady monthly income, instead Thailand welcomes people who are economically at ease.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, how would anyone who wanted to actually apply for this visa when, AFAIK, there's no TM form been posted or provided for this visa, nor even a formal Immigration Bureau announcement detailing the actual particulars they're going to require.

 

For example, the Khaosod article makes absolutely no mention of the insurance requirement, either in their own narrative or in the comments from the Immigration commander. So what does that mean?  Did they drop the insurance requirement along the way, or ooopps.... just decided to not make any mention of that little detail.

Edited August 16, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Are the requirements and application forms available anywhere on the web.

 

Can you have a certified income of 100,000 or must it be the 3mill.?

Have they clarified the particulars of health coverage?

It's either 3 million in a bank account OR 100,000 Baht a month in income, not both. You're the first person to mention this on page 2 of this thread, everyone seems to be fixated on the 3 million in the bank option.

 

A lot of people will have this level of income or more, it's not that much really. If I'm still here when I get to 50 (assume the age limit still applies) maybe I will use it. I won't lock money up in Baht for years to do it though.

Edited August 16, 2017 by ukrules

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here was ThaiVisa's version of the supposed rules back in June. Would be nice to somewhere sometime see an official Immigration version of these:

 

Quote

The visa will cost 10,000 baht and will be valid for 5 years, before being renewed for a further 5 years.
 
The new Non O X visa will be available from 11 August, with an official announcement expected imminently.
 
The Non O X visa does not replace the current annual retirement extension.
 
Thailand 10 year visa in brief:
 
- Over 50s only
- 14 nationalities eligible: Japan, Australia, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada and United States of America.
- Minimum 3 million baht in Thai bank account
- or combination of 1. 8 million in the bank and income not less than 1.2 million
- 3 million baht must be kept in account for one year, can be reduced to 1.5 million under certain conditions
- Criminal background check from country you hold passport
- Health insurance provided by Thai company, Outpatient coverage minimum 40,000 baht, Inpatient coverage not less than 100,000 thousand baht
- Not permitted to work
- Unlimited entry valid for 5 years
- Fee is 10,000 baht
- 90 day report still required.
- Visa issued in two 5 year periods

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, ukrules said:

It's either 3 million in a bank account OR 100,000 Baht a month in income, not both.

 

That's not what ThaiVisa reported back in June...

 

Quote

- Minimum 3 million baht in Thai bank account
- or combination of 1. 8 million in the bank and income not less than 1.2 million
- 3 million baht must be kept in account for one year, can be reduced to 1.5 million under certain conditions

Or July...

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ukrules]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's not what ThaiVisa reported back in June...

 

 

Interesting as it's not what I read when they first announced this visa. So the rules may have changed.

 

It would be good to see the official set of final approved rules.

[aussienam]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

Crap.

I was at the bank 2 weeks ago and asked them what their best rate was. 1.5% for a 1 year fixed term deposit. (Note - interest earned on Fixed Term deposits is taxed  when the term comes due.)

 

Possibly a little more if you chose one of the mutual fund plans and it does better than expected. (Note - apparently interest earned from Mutual Fund deposits is not taxed.)

Keep in mind that under the original terms of this new "visa", you would have to put the 3 mil in a locked in deposit for 1 year, after which you could withdraw up to 50% of it, but only if that money is going to be used for "approved things" (like medical treatment or a condo purchase). The other 1.5 mil has to stay locked in for the duration of the visa and then, when it's time to renew the "10 year" visa for another 5 years, you have to top up the account to 3 mil again (for another year after which you could again withdraw up to half of it).
So basically you end up with 1.5 mil locked into a bank for the entire duration of the visa. 

And you still have to do the 90 day reports !

Does not make financial sense to do it.  Any savvy financial adviser would tell you that this is a bad idea.  No financial benefit for the expat when there are other options that are much better overseas. 

If they offered a significant interest incentive then you 'might' consider it.  But there is too much control over 'your' money.  It feels like your money is imprisoned.  Having to report so often already makes many expats feel they are unwelcome guests who are barely tolerated by the Thai government (from general conversations I have).  

[aussienam]

24 minutes ago, ukrules said:

It's either 3 million in a bank account OR 100,000 Baht a month in income, not both. You're the first person to mention this on page 2 of this thread, everyone seems to be fixated on the 3 million in the bank option.

 

A lot of people will have this level of income or more, it's not that much really. If I'm still here when I get to 50 (assume the age limit still applies) maybe I will use it. I won't lock money up in Baht for years to do it though.

Oh, not in the circles of retirees that I know.  Most fall short of 100,000 Baht income per month (1.2 Million Baht per year).  But of course this visa therefore is not applicable to those of us who earn under the piddly 100,000 Baht income streams.  Many though do have cash amounts exceeding 3 Million Baht in foreign accounts but that of course does not generate 100,000 baht passive income. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by aussienam

[Get Real]

Great! Now some stupid people can lock up some more money in their Thai bank accounts. Ain´t it a good plan, so say? 

[Thaidream]

Actually, there are very few people who can make the monthly requirement of 100K Baht since the incomes of retirees who started work  40-50 years ago was low and only during the last 10 years have salaries reached a level where future retirees will make the level.  More people who are retired may have the 3Million Baht in a bank in their home country and would ever place it in a Thai bank especially when the Thai Government will only guarantee 1 Million Baht.

 

To me the real issue (other than the original Visa requirements) is the details of how it will work- Do you have to go to Immigration every year for your extension of stay for the coming year?  Do you have to show proof of the 3M in the bank or get proof of the 100K yearly income each  year. Do you have to show you paid your insurance for the year?  If your income drops below the requirement can you revert back to the current  1 year extension and its requirements? I can't imagine anyone getting the Visa without knowing how the extension of stay will be processed. Where is the updated Police Order that Immigration issues in writing that spells all the details out?

[SGD]

6 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

A whole lot of people seem to get marriage extensions (not visas) without any problem. If you're facing difficulty getting a one year extension, why would you assume getting a visa or extension for a longer period would be problem free?

 

I have no plans to apply for this visa, but why would you assume that many retirees have less of a connection to Thailand than you do. Many retirees are married to Thais and have children here. 

I have an eighteen year connection to Thailand and get retirement extensions every year. Why is someone who chose to get married so much more "connected" to Thailand?

Because if you have to jump through the hoop once, it is easier than having to jump through the hoop every year.

 

With seeding of the Bt800k (assuming you don't use a bogus agent) then you have to be planning 4 months plus every year unless you simply park your Bt800k and forget about it.

[dcnx]

6 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Scams are so much a part of Thailand they can't even call a five year visa a five year visa.

They always have to have the upper hand, making sure they can screw you after 5 years is one way to do that. Holding onto your 3 million baht is another.

 

 

[SGD]

31 minutes ago, aussienam said:

Does not make financial sense to do it.  Any savvy financial adviser would tell you that this is a bad idea.  No financial benefit for the expat when there are other options that are much better overseas. 

If they offered a significant interest incentive then you 'might' consider it.  But there is too much control over 'your' money.  It feels like your money is imprisoned.  Having to report so often already makes many expats feel they are unwelcome guests who are barely tolerated by the Thai government (from general conversations I have).  

 

27 minutes ago, aussienam said:

Oh, not in the circles of retirees that I know.  Most fall short of 100,000 Baht income per month (1.2 Million Baht per year).  But of course this visa therefore is not applicable to those of us who earn under the piddly 100,000 Baht income streams.  Many though do have cash amounts exceeding 3 Million Baht in foreign accounts but that of course does not generate 100,000 baht passive income. 

 

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Actually, there are very few people who can make the monthly requirement of 100K Baht since the incomes of retirees who started work  40-50 years ago was low and only during the last 10 years have salaries reached a level where future retirees will make the level.  More people who are retired may have the 3Million Baht in a bank in their home country and would ever place it in a Thai bank especially when the Thai Government will only guarantee 1 Million Baht.

 

To me the real issue (other than the original Visa requirements) is the details of how it will work- Do you have to go to Immigration every year for your extension of stay for the coming year?  Do you have to show proof of the 3M in the bank or get proof of the 100K yearly income each  year. Do you have to show you paid your insurance for the year?  If your income drops below the requirement can you revert back to the current  1 year extension and its requirements? I can't imagine anyone getting the Visa without knowing how the extension of stay will be processed. Where is the updated Police Order that Immigration issues in writing that spells all the details out?

Whilst I could agree with your thoughts on parking Bt1.5m permanently as a bad idea, had it been available for the under 50s, then it could have been viable, given the costs associated with renewing other visas for those under 50 years of age.

 

However, why would a country want to import people who don't have an income of Bt100k per month ? Would you want to import the poor ? The problem here is that whilst I agree you can exist on less than Bt100k a month, you are not adding that much to the economy. I make a big distinction here between those spending Bt95k a month and those trying to live on Bt15-20k a month.

 

The Bt65k a month has been around for decades and likely hasn't risen because the main FX rates again the THB have fallen significantly from when it was introduced. In 2004 for instance GBP was 75 and now it is 42, a fall of 44% !

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, aussienam said:

The losses in foreign bank interest over ten years for 3 Million Baht makes this offer uneconomical for most

 

3 Million Baht?  So, this is my question; is the allure of a ten year (5 year split really) visa is worth putting 3 Million Baht into a Thai bank account that will earn virtually zero interest?  

Let's do some simple maths: 

 

If I leave my three million baht in my Australian bank account - in a 5 year term deposit account (that is also bank guaranteed under strict Australian government legislation) - approximately $120,000 Australian Dollars (based on roughly 25 Baht to the dollar) , I can currently apply for a 3.3% term deposit interest account up to 5 years in most banks.  

 

First 5 years: 

That equates to $3960 interest earned per year x 5 = $19,800.00.  That is almost 500,000 baht in interest (minus tax of course but that is variable according to one's tax structure).  

 

Second five years: 

 

So now you roll over the principal and interest received from the first 5 years:

 

$120,000 AUD or 3 Million Baht plus interest = $120,000 + $19,800 or 3 Million Baht + 495,000 Baht 

 

So the new 5 year term begins with the amount of  $139,800 AUD equivalent to approximately  3,495,000 Baht

 

That equates to $4613.40 interest earned per year x 5 = $23,067 AUD or 576,675 Baht

 

Total gross interest earned over 5 years would = $19,800 + $23,067 = $42,867 earned

 

That's the equivalent of 1,071,675 Baht - over 1 Million Baht in gross interest 

 

Even if you were to pay let's say an average Australian income tax rate of 32.5% (including Medicare levy which you may be exempt from as an expat) which for many would be less anyway, that's still approximately $28,935.00 AUD interest earned after tax or approximately 723,380 Baht.  

 

I understand the 1 year retirement visa also requires an amount deposited into a Thai account and/or some proof of a regular income stream.  

 

But as it stands looking at the ten year visa option one needs to ask whether it is worth losing more than 1 Million Baht in passive gross income over 10 years (based on Australian bank interest only) by leaving money in a bank for the use of the Thai economy with zero benefit to you?  It's a very large amount to pay for convenience.  

 

So unless you are a wealthy retired expat (I am sure there are many of you but many of us were not so fortunate) this amount is just way too much to just hand over.  

 

Basically you are paying 100,000 Baht per year (based off the gross interest amount) for the visa when you equate it to lost interest.  

 

There is no way I would ever pay that much to stay in Thailand unless I was close to death's door and wasn't going to pass on any inheritance anyway.  

 

There is way too much uncertainty as well about the future and it is a huge amount to hold in a bank account for ten years with no interest - plus the value of that 3 Million Baht depreciates with CPI (inflation) as well which means after ten years if you decide enough is enough that money is worth considerably less.  

 

You could have saved the batteries on your calculator and simply declare an income of 100,000THB......  No deposit required! 

 

Of course I appreciate some are not able to show such an income, but those that can would benefit immensely from not having to visit immigration for 5 years, with all the associated time and hassle. Particularly as online reporting is now available. So I'm guessing this visa only appears ludicrous to those that cannot show an income in excess of 100k.

 

It's not mentioned, but I presume this would be a multi exit / entry visa, another benefit depending on the actual application cost of this visa, compared with the annual fee of 3,800/an for the same annual extension.

 

A further benefit is a sense of security of residence for 5 years.

 

Viewing it from this angle, what's not to like?

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Unless you've already taken the plunge, I'm not sure getting married here is less risky than any plan the government may come up with,.

Took the plunge happily 10 years ago, invested 10% to date, so the risk is in my favour IMO

[MyFriend You]

6 hours ago, globin said:

I like the picture of the silver haired couple on the spotless and deserted beach...I want a visa for that place, where is it? inside the hollow moon!

Phang Rang, East Coast Vietnam

[dcnx]

10 minutes ago, SGD said:

With seeding of the Bt800k (assuming you don't use a bogus agent) then you have to be planning 4 months plus every year unless you simply park your Bt800k and forget about it.

Agents are only bogus if they take your money and do nothing in return. Otherwise, they are legit with very strong connections at immigration.

 

One of these days you guys will learn that Thailand is not only about face, it's also about connections. That's what you pay for with an agent, their connections.

 

Why waste my time at immigration or worrying about a visa when someone else takes care of all of that for me? You may not value your time but many people do, and it's too valuable to be wasted by Somchai at immigration who may or may not require a new form on any given day for no reason whatsoever, without prior notice. I'll gladly pay someone to make sure my visa / immigration issues are hassle free.

 

Regarding the money.... Let someone else use their 800k and invest yours. 

 

They created the game. Play it by their rules or waste your time, effort, and money. Up to you.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, Tofer said:

You could have saved the batteries on your calculator and simply declare an income of 100,000THB......  No deposit required! 

 

Not sure where you're getting that idea from... The actual requirements (from ThaiVisa) are as follows:

 

Quote

- Minimum 3 million baht in Thai bank account
- or combination of 1. 8 million in the bank and income not less than 1.2 million

 

[Bruce404]

Why not just call it a 100-year visa, in 20 installments every five years, each requiring all the financial and other paperwork?  

 

Getting serious, though, a "visa" is generally only PERMISSION TO ENTER a country.  It is never stated whether this long-term, presumably multiple-entry visa will grant its recipient "permission to stay" for 5 years in the country, avoiding all those repetitive trips to Immigration for extensions of permission to stay beyond the typical 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, or 1 year that are commonly granted to tourists, retirees, or those with work permits. 

 

In other words, upon receiving this visa, say, on 31 August 2017, will one's passport be stamped with a permission-to-stay expiration date of 30 August 2022?  Now that would be nice.  Although those pesky 90-day-reporting "I'm still here!" visits, mail-ins, or online submissions may still be required.  

 

Maybe by 2022, the online version for form TM.47 (90-day reporting) will work for all, regardless of location in the country.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Bruce404