Midweek rant: The Right to Rant – it’s not bashing Thailand to criticize

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall within Thailand, some lame guy, who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any focus or effort to a reasonable reply, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or maybe you should leave, or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". Hard to even respond to such inane statements. Why? Because I have some issues with the place? Sorry to inform you, but the nature of a discerning mind, is to have issues. Though absolute contentment must be a beautiful state of mind, it is not something most of us are blessed with, in case you have not noticed. The fact that I complain, does not mean I do not love Thailand, nor most of it's people. I do. I love my life here. I have a very good life here. But, I do have some complaints, and there are some things I would love to see improved. I should leave because of that? Please.

Well said spidermike007 and mirrors my thoughts almost exactly....good post.

[SamT]

33 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

When a government official asks me for a bribe, I comment.

When 100 other government officials do not extort me, I do not comment.

Does that make me a ranter, a whiner, a negativist?

 

PS. Carefull with your answer, do not tempt me.

I just might start posting everytime that an official does not extort me, everytime the sun shines, everytime I am not charged a double price, to prove I am such a positivo.

 

What? You get charged 100b to get in somewhere as opposed to 50b? How will you survive without the extra $2. Is there somewhere i can donate to your plight? Outrageous. New Zealand has the exact same pricing schemes for tourist destinations, working on the premise that locals shouldn't pay as much to see their own tourist attractions that their taxes fund. 

 

Absolutely worth commenting about corruption, but if you've been round these boards a while, you'll see that people continually complain about things a whole lot more trivial than that. Don't be so precious that I call people out on that. There are some ridiculously negative people on some of the expat fb pages and I suspect you know it, but you choose to take offence and presume I'm talking about you only. 

 

I find Thai peiple far more friendly and selfless as a whole than any western culture I've ever lived in. Yes, the violent taxi driver that makes the news spoils that, or the corrupt cop  (I've had dealings with them too), but I find they're the exception rather than the norm. 

 

Guess it just depends on whether you choose to let the one percent spoil the other 99 percent. That's entirely your choice.

[SamT]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Well said spidermike007 and mirrors my thoughts almost exactly....good post.

I agree with spidermike as well. My original comment, which Some have taken exception to was certainly not aimed at people who point one or two things out, more at the people who only ever see the negative in Thailand and act as if Thailand is continually doing them a disservice. 

 

Every country has it's pros and cons, Thailand is certainly no different 

[holy cow cm]

Basically a rant or to criticize is a form of defamation if you cannot prove it. Even stating displeasure is like stating their decision making and/or current system is faulty. It looks as if it may only be a short time before the powers that be start making examples of posters on this forum so I would be very careful and don't slip. you can see the clamp strangulation coming down on all Thai society now by the you know whom who is not democratic.  .

[JLCrab]

One with a discerning mind might say --

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to say 'Screw the rest'.

Edited August 17, 2017 by JLCrab

[oldhippy]

11 minutes ago, SamT said:

What? You get charged 100b to get in somewhere as opposed to 50b? How will you survive without the extra $2. Is there somewhere i can donate to your plight? Outrageous. New Zealand has the exact same pricing schemes for tourist destinations, working on the premise that locals shouldn't pay as much to see their own tourist attractions that their taxes fund. 

 

Absolutely worth commenting about corruption, but if you've been round these boards a while, you'll see that people continually complain about things a whole lot more trivial than that. Don't be so precious that I call people out on that. There are some ridiculously negative people on some of the expat fb pages and I suspect you know it, but you choose to take offence and presume I'm talking about you only. 

 

I find Thai peiple far more friendly and selfless as a whole than any western culture I've ever lived in. Yes, the violent taxi driver that makes the news spoils that, or the corrupt cop  (I've had dealings with them too), but I find they're the exception rather than the norm. 

 

Guess it just depends on whether you choose to let the one percent spoil the other 99 percent. That's entirely your choice.

What? You get charged 100b to get in somewhere as opposed to 50b? How will you survive without the extra $2. Is there somewhere i can donate to your plight? Outrageous. New Zealand has the exact same pricing schemes for tourist destinations, working on the premise that locals shouldn't pay as much to see their own tourist attractions that their taxes fund. 

@ fold? how about 10 fold?

taxes: the average tourist pays more taxes per day in Thailand than the average Thai.

(clue:  VAT..... income tax....).

 

Absolutely worth commenting about corruption, but if you've been round these boards a while, you'll see that people continually complain about things a whole lot more trivial than that. Don't be so precious that I call people out on that. There are some ridiculously negative people on some of the expat fb pages and I suspect you know it, but you choose to take offence and presume I'm talking about you only. 

How many ridiculously negative people?

And you have been on this forum for a long time, so you know? 12 posts!!! Perhaps a born again poster?

 

I find Thai peiple far more friendly and selfless as a whole than any western culture I've ever lived in. Yes, the violent taxi driver that makes the news spoils that, or the corrupt cop  (I've had dealings with them too), but I find they're the exception rather than the norm. 

Yes they luckily are exceptions, so?

Guess it just depends on whether you choose to let the one percent spoil the other 99 percent. That's entirely your choice.

You assume too much! I comment on the 1% yes, but they don't spoil it for me.

 

PS. Breaking news!!! I was not extorted today!!! I did not visit a national park today, and therefore did not get charged 10 fold!!! And the 7 11 treats me like any other customer!!!

Nothing to complain about!!!

[transam]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

One with a discerning mind might say --

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to say 'Screw the rest'.

But I am not religious and maybe have a discerning mind...

[JLCrab]

Maybe.

[Tchooptip]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

Many times though you seem the same old posters knocking Thailand and the Thai people in every thread every time they post.

They're not ranting - they are seriously obsessed and not in a good way. Perhaps suffering from undiagnosed depression?

 

"Perhaps suffering from undiagnosed depression?" 

But at the same time,  a private club not stingy at all to  distributes likes between them for some magic words or phrases like:

... police farce, 15 likes,

  ...Vorayuth Yoovidhya, 20 likes,  

... Ko Tao the Dead Island, 15 likes

 ... a taxi driver will give back a bag with 20 000 ฿, 10 likes

 ... Tuk Tuk driver scums, 10 likes.

 ... Taxi drivers moron, 10 likes 

... Should have used article 44, 15 likes

Plus much more on the list 

  

[Bangkok Barry]

6 hours ago, vadid said:

The ways Thais react to the merest criticism of their country shows an underlying deep lack of confidence in the nation. 

 

Or a hightened sense of arrogance.

[transam]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

Many times though you seem the same old posters knocking Thailand and the Thai people in every thread every time they post.

They're not ranting - they are seriously obsessed and not in a good way. Perhaps suffering from undiagnosed depression?

Perhaps just seen a lot, dealt with a lot and learned a lot over a period of time...

[248900_1469958220]

I often think things should be better. I sometimes write on my 'things to do list': 'make things better'.....but I am lazy and usually just end up gorging on snickers bars while watching re runs of MASH.

Edited August 17, 2017 by 248900_1469958220

[sawadee1947]

Mate, you are not right.

Do you thin development comes from foreigners?

Do you think Thais would be happy if you tell them hat they are doing is wrong?

Do you think they would like if you give them lesson about democracy?

Do you think they would honor if you tell them and show how stupid they are?

Do you think they would follow if you give them some ideas how to change their life to a better ?

There is only ONE answer: NO

A change can be done only from inside by themselves but not by a smartass imposing a new world

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I would love to see improved

and what are you actively doing for improvement? Start demonstrating on the market? Talk to the headman? (Many examples in mind.) Or is it the lack of speaking Thai which makes you idle????

[jesimps]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

Still, I think some people would be happier if they didn't live in a place where they hate the culture, hate the people, hate the government and think they're all idiots.  

 

The ones that I get a kick out of are the ones who hate everything about Thailand, but live here because it's so much better than the life they left behind. 

 

And I suspect the locals would be pleased to see a lot of them go- so they can stop being treated like toe cheese and errant children.

 

That's just what the OP was on about. You're obviously one of these people that assume that just because people criticise occasionally on here that all of the above applies to them.

 

People don't mention the good things because it's pointless. They wouldn't be here if there was nothing good about the place. I find that the complaints on here are usually warranted and are about Thailand and Thais because this is where we live.

 

I'm convinced that Thais living abroad complain just as much about their country of residence as we do here. I'm sure they also have their PCs Suradit, Cyberfarang and Impulse hovering 24/7.

 

They never sleep you know.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by jesimps

[sawadee1947]

4 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Your body and brain are muscles. You stop using your body and it withers away. It's the same when you stop using your brain. 

True. In general

But what if you got more muscles than brain cells?

[wanderluster]

troll post

[55Jay]

Rants are fun in paradise lost.

 

I stumbled onto an expat site for Nicaragua early this morning.

 

Airbrushed, azure Pacific waters backed by idyllic, palm lined beaches and lush coastal mountains.  I thought, boy, doesn't that look lovely.  My next thought was of raw sewage and gray water pouring into it from the make shift tourist resorts, hostels, restaurants and rusty, tin roofed bars ringing that slice of 3rd world paradise.

 

Perusing the comments, resident expats and former Navy SeALs, complained about poor roads and infrastructure, polluted ocean especially during the rain season; too much rain during rain season ~ not enough during dry season; bad internet, high cost of and/or lack of imported items, Begpackers and tattted up millennial dipshits with purple & green hair performing Yoga to "be one with the natives", Visa/border runs; crappy drivers, cheap charlies, armed robberies, dodgy locals dual price gouging the gringos, crooked cops, and an increasingly creative, xenophobic government and Immigration making things harder than they used to be.  There were Trump haters and cheerleaders, and a discussion about whether polite, law-abiding Canadians should inform on their fellow gringos employed without work permits.... eh? 

 

I noticed second hand surf boards for sale instead of high-end golf club sets - "never used" or "only used once". 

 

Of course there were some moaners moaning about moaning moaners, and the requisite "If you don't like it, go home!" brigade.

 

        SO HERE'S TO GRINGOS IN PARADISE LOST

                                     CHEERS! 

          

[saakura]

7 hours ago, vadid said:

The ways Thais react to the merest criticism of their country shows an underlying deep lack of confidence in the nation. 

the way that some farangs criticise everything about thailand shows a deep feeling of superiority?

[transam]

5 minutes ago, saakura said:

the way that some farangs criticise everything about thailand shows a deep feeling of superiority?

Not really, just where they came from basic stuff was sorted perhaps...

[TKDfella]

I think it's a very lucky person who becomes a completely happy expat. When leaving one country for another one is merely changing one set of likes and dislikes for another set. Paradise is different for different people and we all have have our own personal ideals. One of the simple things I miss is going to the local library. There are some around around Thailand but none that I would call local for me. Book sellers in Thailand don't have the books I want so I have to buy from abroad. But there you go, win some lose some.

For one expat to say to another 'if you don't like it...blah blah' is in bad taste. We are human beings and as such we get annoyed sometimes with this and that and being able to complain is not only part of free speech it's a relief valve too.

[Kadilo]

Many times though you seem the same old posters knocking Thailand and the Thai people in every thread every time they post.
They're not ranting - they are seriously obsessed and not in a good way. Perhaps suffering from undiagnosed depression?

Agreed. In many cases had a bad experience and just can't move on despite claims to the contrary, so want everyone to "benefit" from their experience .......or try and drag everyone else down to their way of thinking.
Get over it. You punted and you lost. Move on.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Agreed. In many cases had a bad experience and just can't move on despite claims to the contrary, so want everyone to "benefit" from their experience .......or try and drag everyone else down to their way of thinking.
Get over it. You punted and you lost. Move on.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Information sometimes helps, we all have the ability to dismiss crap...

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, saakura said:

the way that some farangs criticise everything about thailand shows a deep feeling of superiority?

I guess it is neither.

 

It is not a lack of confidence in their country, but rather in their capacity to contradict their interlocutor...in other words they lack the necessary skills for debate, hence the usual shortcut "take it or leave it".

 

Even between Thais, there are no contradictory discussions, any disagreement immediately turns to name calling, if not worse.

 

The farangs who parrot the locals (go back blah blah blah) are just part of the usual bunch of foreigners gone native for lack of a strong personality...this is not specific to Thailand, one can meet them all over the third world.

 

As for those who criticize their country of adoption, it all depends of what they are talking about...for example, criticizing the Thai electricity network seems pretty reasonable since people are regularly dying because of its poor quality, or their poor skills to improve it (see the guys who regularly get electrocuted and fried while "fixing" a transformer or something else)...now criticizing the Thai food because it is not as good as the food back home is ridiculous and deserves a "take it or leave it".

[oldhippy]

53 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

and what are you actively doing for improvement? Start demonstrating on the market? Talk to the headman? (Many examples in mind.) Or is it the lack of speaking Thai which makes you idle????

What I do for improvement?

Simple.

I bring my wife every year to Europe.

 

She pays local prices, does not get extorted or overcharged, uses our great health care system, does not have visa problems, does not report to police, does not get attacked by soi dogs, tries different ethnic foods, meets people from different cultures.

 

My wife sees and learns.

In our house (in Thailand) most of the Thai ranting and bashing is done by my wife, not by me.

 

 

[Golden Triangle]

There is nothing wrong with "Constructive Criticism", after-all, the Thais themselves seek to improve and better their country, some countries progress at a faster rate than others, we come from relatively privileged backgrounds, schools that teach, water that can be drunk straight from the tap, gas piped into our homes, electrical infrastructure that doesn't look like a dogs dinner, decent medical facilities, proper driver training, police forces free from corruption, a fair and just judicial system etc etc.

 

I'm not saying we all benefit from the above points, it depends where you lived prior to Thailand, but I'm sure you get my drift, I would hazard a guess that most TVF members are of a certain age and would have grown up with most of the points I make above, so it is not unnatural to compare what you see and experience now with what you saw & experienced before.

 

So as long as it's constructive, criticize away 

 

  

[amvet]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

and what are you actively doing for improvement? Start demonstrating on the market? Talk to the headman? (Many examples in mind.) Or is it the lack of speaking Thai which makes you idle????

I support children whose parents died of HIV.  I adopt and neuter soi dogs.  I do the laundry and take out the trash. 

[brucegoniners]

No country is perfect.

 

god knows as an American I'm well aware of this.

 

BUT...under the current military government, criticism is not only not welcome here, it can be a threat to your freedom.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

8 hours ago, impulse said:

Still, I think some people would be happier if they didn't live in a place where they hate the culture, hate the people, hate the government and think they're all idiots.  

 

The ones that I get a kick out of are the ones who hate everything about Thailand, but live here because it's so much better than the life they left behind. 

 

And I suspect the locals would be pleased to see a lot of them go- so they can stop being treated like toe cheese and errant children.

 

That's just what the OP was on about. You're obviously one of these people that assume that just because people criticise occasionally on here that all of the above applies to them.

 

People don't mention the good things because it's pointless. They wouldn't be here if there was nothing good about the place. I find that the complaints on here are usually warranted and are about Thailand and Thais because this is where we live.

 

It's one thing to complain about things.  It's another to constantly denigrate a whole nation of people and their culture on a regular basis because they don't conform to the way things work back home where the GDP per capita is 10x what it is here and people worry about how to pay for that 3rd car in the garage, not whether they'll ever own even one car in their lifetime.  

 

Newsflash:  Not all Thais are idiots, thugs, crappy drivers, lazy, and out to steal from us.  Any more than they are back home.  Thais have different ways of doing things that may never make sense to me, but if I try to understand there's usually historical context and a good reason for their habits.

 

In Thailand, just as back home, if I run into 2 buttwads in the same afternoon, it's usually time to look in a mirror.  Not to get on a blog and rant about Thainess and the silly brown people.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by impulse

[VBF]

4 hours ago, SamT said:

Good article. I absolutely agree with the right to criticise, but in some of the online expat forums there are some people who are just not happy with anything about Thailand. 

 

 

Perhaps those are the ones who should pack up and leave? If you're not happy with anything about a place then maybe you are in the wrong place?

 

As for the the majority of us who either live in Thailand or visit it on a regular basis, there are many things wrong with Thailand and there are many things right with Thailand  IMO! 

 

There are also many things wrong with UK/USA/Europe/Scandinavia just as there are many things right with UK/USA/Europe/Scandinavia. One chooses one's location based on the balance that suits one and accepts the bad with the good,

 

One of the sayings we had when I worked in Saudi was "Life here is like a set of weighing scales - on one side is a bucket of gold, on the other is a bucket of sh*t. When the bucket of sh*t" gets heavier than the bucket of gold, catch the bird!"

 

I love Thailand for up to 6 months at a time, then certain things start to irritate me...so I return to UK, where after 6 months certain (different) things start to irritate me, so then......rinse and repeat as necessary.

 

Two small examples, amongst literally hundreds:

 

One of the things I dislike in Thailand is that I cannot rant against and criticise certain people and things - in UK I can say what I like about any institution as long as I don't encourage violence.

Whereas, one of the things I dislike in UK is that I cannot go to a bank and change money without having an account - in Thailand I can march into a money exchange with minimal ID and job done.

 

The place where we will all like everything about it, is called Utopia - anyone found it?

 

Oh, I seem to have had a rant of my own.......  Good Day, all