Wai

[King Dong]

Why exactly is it that you cringe when a person wai's a bg...they are thai people also aren't they ?? It is embarrassing to wai them, but not her sister who happens to work in Pizza hut ??

Someone on Jacks golf bus told me u should Wai in Burger King, but NOT Pizza hut.. Why do u think that is Nawtilus? I thought it was maybe something to do with burger king charging for BBQ Sauce?

Edited January 4, 2007 by King Dong

[gburns57au]

As a farang....

Always initiate a wai to older people and people of a higher standing...this is a higher standing in Thai culture...Monks, headmasters, kamnans, etc....Always wai to policemen especially if you want their help.

If an equal wais you then give the wai back...common courtesy...by not doing so you are belittling them.

Never wai children or service people...

And as Bambina says...if you are joining a group of adult people or leaving a group of people then give a general wai to the whole group.

The height of the wai is important..the higher the wai and the deeper the bow..the more respect you are giving...for the average farang you shouldnt have to go higher than the thumb around the chin area.

[chiliwasabi]

My understanding is that you do not wai to children or to the person who wais you at the supermarket or who serves you in a restaurant etc.

If you are to wai to an elder person, such as my GF's elderly parents, thumbs are at nose level and the tips of the fingers are at forehead level accompanied with a mid to deep bow.

If you are to wai to a superior, such as a boss or teacher, it is appropriate to have thumbs at chin level with the tips of the fingers at nose level accompanied with a slight bow.

As for other occasions such as when leaving a party or gathering you would offer all gathered what I call an open wai which is just your average wai of politeness.

This is just what I have observed I may be mistaken

[BambinA]

1 ) 2 young people wai the senior (The wai to a superior is with the tips of your fingers at nose level, still bowing your body.)

2) the senior wai back (your hands pressed together at about chest level,) / you can also just node and smile without wai

[chuchok]

I NEVER wai service staff, they get a nod at best.

Agree

Lets get back to the subject without involving BG's please.

The way I understand it is that you should wai someone older than yourself, or someone of higher standing. Children do not need to be wai'd

If someone younger than yourself (other than children) gives the wai first, I normally wai back, I think it's polite( some situations do not need it, ;ike in a service environment, but this can be figured out with practice and advice)

Agree

I'm not generalising, it is ridiculous to wai either of them, because of a few reasons I suppose, first being you would generally be older than them, second they are in the service industry and you are a customer, thirdly because the wai is very respectful and it's just overkill in either situation. I suppose it would be akin to going up to a Pizza Hut worker in the UK/USA whatever and shaking their hand, it's just not done. If they wai you it doesn't hurt to give a wai back, but a nod of the head and a smile is fine. Do as the Thais do really.

>>The reason why you need not to wai at waiter/waitress and service staffs

Agree

One easy determination is age. If someone is older than you, then you should wai them unless they are someone whom you employ, such as a housekeeper. Additionally, you should never wai to anyone who you are paying for service, such as waiters, tailors, vendors, shopkeepers or taxi drivers. You also wouldn't wai your peers and friends. Alternatively, when leaving a party or other such gathering, you should wai everyone, as this is the polite way to excuse yourself from the festivities.

You will also wai when receiving a gift from a superior, as a sign of thanks. Make your wai before you reach to take the object. While listening to a Buddhist sermon, it is also customary to hold a wai during the entire programme. You may even notice that as drivers of vehicles pass a sacred monument, they will wai - even taking their hands off the wheel!

If all that wasn't confusing enough, there are different kinds of wais! The normal wai is with your hands pressed together at about chest level, presenting a slight bow with your body. The wai to a superior is with the tips of your fingers at nose level, still bowing your body. To convey the most respect and gratitude, you will wai with your fingertips at mouth level and present a deeper and longer bow.

from : http://www.1stopchiangmai.com/how_to/wai/

A post that all should read....

[meadish_sweetball]

I always acknowledge with a nod and a sawadee or khob khun khup, I rarely ever wai.

You would never say 'khob khun khup' (='thank you') for a wai. That is the same thing as saying 'thank you' when somebody says 'hello' in English. Saying 'Sawadee khrap' is fine, so is nodding.

Even responding with a small wai back is fine, some Thais do this as well.

The same goes for kids. When they wai you, you will decide if you wai back or not. The important thing to remember is that you never *initiate* a wai to service staff or kids.

The key factor is the relationship you are in with the person.

I.e. you dont initiate a wai to a tuk tuk driver or McDonald's staff - unless, of course, said tuk tuk driver or Mc Donald's staff happens to be your father or mother in law... in which case it would be rude not to.

[coldcrush]

Ok, not about humans either.

Nawtilus,

Feel free to add some advice about the wai.. but this thread will not degenerate into a discussion about certain groups of people.

totster

Wai?

[coldcrush]

I NEVER wai service staff, they get a nod at best.

Agree

Lets get back to the subject without involving BG's please.

The way I understand it is that you should wai someone older than yourself, or someone of higher standing. Children do not need to be wai'd

If someone younger than yourself (other than children) gives the wai first, I normally wai back, I think it's polite( some situations do not need it, ;ike in a service environment, but this can be figured out with practice and advice)

Agree

I'm not generalising, it is ridiculous to wai either of them, because of a few reasons I suppose, first being you would generally be older than them, second they are in the service industry and you are a customer, thirdly because the wai is very respectful and it's just overkill in either situation. I suppose it would be akin to going up to a Pizza Hut worker in the UK/USA whatever and shaking their hand, it's just not done. If they wai you it doesn't hurt to give a wai back, but a nod of the head and a smile is fine. Do as the Thais do really.

>>The reason why you need not to wai at waiter/waitress and service staffs

Agree

One easy determination is age. If someone is older than you, then you should wai them unless they are someone whom you employ, such as a housekeeper. Additionally, you should never wai to anyone who you are paying for service, such as waiters, tailors, vendors, shopkeepers or taxi drivers. You also wouldn't wai your peers and friends. Alternatively, when leaving a party or other such gathering, you should wai everyone, as this is the polite way to excuse yourself from the festivities.

You will also wai when receiving a gift from a superior, as a sign of thanks. Make your wai before you reach to take the object. While listening to a Buddhist sermon, it is also customary to hold a wai during the entire programme. You may even notice that as drivers of vehicles pass a sacred monument, they will wai - even taking their hands off the wheel!

If all that wasn't confusing enough, there are different kinds of wais! The normal wai is with your hands pressed together at about chest level, presenting a slight bow with your body. The wai to a superior is with the tips of your fingers at nose level, still bowing your body. To convey the most respect and gratitude, you will wai with your fingertips at mouth level and present a deeper and longer bow.

from : http://www.1stopchiangmai.com/how_to/wai/

A post that all should read....

That is very common wai-ing to sacred monuments, however it is very unsafe. You could wai to the shrine when driving and meet your maker, whoever that is? Also I think when beeping the horn you should check if your passnegers are asleep first as it tends to wake you up. I respect peoples cultures and sleep patterns as the driver of the bus from Bangkok to chaing Mai does not!

[chuchok]

I NEVER wai service staff, they get a nod at best.

Agree

Lets get back to the subject without involving BG's please.

The way I understand it is that you should wai someone older than yourself, or someone of higher standing. Children do not need to be wai'd

If someone younger than yourself (other than children) gives the wai first, I normally wai back, I think it's polite( some situations do not need it, ;ike in a service environment, but this can be figured out with practice and advice)

Agree

I'm not generalising, it is ridiculous to wai either of them, because of a few reasons I suppose, first being you would generally be older than them, second they are in the service industry and you are a customer, thirdly because the wai is very respectful and it's just overkill in either situation. I suppose it would be akin to going up to a Pizza Hut worker in the UK/USA whatever and shaking their hand, it's just not done. If they wai you it doesn't hurt to give a wai back, but a nod of the head and a smile is fine. Do as the Thais do really.

>>The reason why you need not to wai at waiter/waitress and service staffs

Agree

One easy determination is age. If someone is older than you, then you should wai them unless they are someone whom you employ, such as a housekeeper. Additionally, you should never wai to anyone who you are paying for service, such as waiters, tailors, vendors, shopkeepers or taxi drivers. You also wouldn't wai your peers and friends. Alternatively, when leaving a party or other such gathering, you should wai everyone, as this is the polite way to excuse yourself from the festivities.

You will also wai when receiving a gift from a superior, as a sign of thanks. Make your wai before you reach to take the object. While listening to a Buddhist sermon, it is also customary to hold a wai during the entire programme. You may even notice that as drivers of vehicles pass a sacred monument, they will wai - even taking their hands off the wheel!

If all that wasn't confusing enough, there are different kinds of wais! The normal wai is with your hands pressed together at about chest level, presenting a slight bow with your body. The wai to a superior is with the tips of your fingers at nose level, still bowing your body. To convey the most respect and gratitude, you will wai with your fingertips at mouth level and present a deeper and longer bow.

from : http://www.1stopchiangmai.com/how_to/wai/

A post that all should read....

That is very common wai-ing to sacred monuments, however it is very unsafe. You could wai to the shrine when driving and meet your maker, whoever that is? Also I think when beeping the horn you should check if your passnegers are asleep first as it tends to wake you up. I respect peoples cultures and sleep patterns as the driver of the bus from Bangkok to chaing Mai does not!

When I first got here, I organised a Thai driver to take me to mai Sai for a border run.The first shrine we wnt past going up a windy hill, he took both hands off the wheel and did a wai that lasted for what seemed like a lifetime(foot firmly on the gas peddle too!!).I drove on the way back.

[Nawtilus]

"You would never say 'khob khun khup' (='thank you') for a wai. That is the same thing as saying 'thank you' when somebody says 'hello' in English. Saying 'Sawadee khrap' is fine, so is nodding."

Read it the way I wrote it, unless I writ it wrong, I did not reread it to know if i writ it wrong or write....but it was in context to leaving a service establishment, restaurant or bar and saying thankyou when leaving rather than wai-ing, I say it as I nod. If they wai me, like I said, I do not even if I know them, I usually wai someone I know at the beginning as hello, not when leaving in relation to service staff that is....I figure 1 wai is enough

[Nawtilus]

Why exactly is it that you cringe when a person wai's a bg...they are thai people also aren't they ?? It is embarrassing to wai them, but not her sister who happens to work in Pizza hut ??

Someone on Jacks golf bus told me u should Wai in Burger King, but NOT Pizza hut.. Why do u think that is Nawtilus? I thought it was maybe something to do with burger king charging for BBQ Sauce?

You should only wai for the special sauce and seems you are getting plenty of that in your burger king

[cdnvic]

Why exactly is it that you cringe when a person wai's a bg...they are thai people also aren't they ?? It is embarrassing to wai them, but not her sister who happens to work in Pizza hut ??

It's kind of ridiculous to wai either of them.

On duty, yes... but in any other situation if it were an appropriate greeting then it's fine to either wai, or return a wai as the situation dictates.

You want complicated, try bowing in Korea. I was returning bows from people serving me with what I thought was just a polite nod. Turns out I was wrong. "Only communists do that"

Whatever their job or station in life, treat them with respect.

Edited January 4, 2007 by cdnvic

[TAWP]

Easiest translation, that someone already touched: If you end up in a situation were you 'back home' would take their hand and perhaps even slightly bow your head in greating, then Wai. Otherwise don't.

I never shake hand with the teller at McDonalds before ordering.

And don't bothering bringing up "but if they aren't working, you meet them on a sunday, the third week after a full moon and you have walked 7 steps past an electric fence" as I think we all know that outside work, as friends, the rules applied are the same as any friends/relatives/whatever, and not the work they happend to do some hours ago...

[old wanderer]

Boy.....one of the worste fights (and one of the very few fights) I ever had with my wife was about the lack of a wai.

Not from her but her sister, (my sister-in-law). We had come from the USA to Thailand and a month before something had happened with her sister that requied I send some money. I did it to help out. When we went to the sisters home, I was treated like I was invisible....No hello, no good-by,,,,,nothing the whole 2 hours we were there.

The next day my wife wanted to return to her (younger) sisters home, and I told her to go alone. I would not return to be insurlted again...I brought up the fact that I am both older and higher than her sister, so expected a greeting and a good-bye....but got totally ignored.

Well for 2 years I refused any social contact with her, but when back in the village visiting her mother , little sister shows up whith husband and kids....I certainly did get what I expected at that time.....I was greeted, (and I watched to see where the hands were placed...I know these things) I was given much respect and courtesy. Her husband went on about about how I am family. My feeleing was and still is I am in Thailand and respect there customs, then they cannot ignore there customs when it comes to me.

Wife defended the sister as just being shy.....I took it as just being a falang that got used to help her out.

Sometimes you just need to take a hard stand.

Got it all sorted out now though.

[Neeranam]

The height of the wai is important..the higher the wai and the deeper the bow..the more respect you are giving...for the average farang you shouldnt have to go higher than the thumb around the chin area.

When waiing parents the thumbs should be at the mouth.

Teachers a little lower.

Elders araound the chin.

The King and monks above the nose.

When waiing kids the thumbs should be in the ears.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Neeranam

[steveromagnino]

The height of the wai is important..the higher the wai and the deeper the bow..the more respect you are giving...for the average farang you shouldnt have to go higher than the thumb around the chin area.

When waiing parents the thumbs should be at the mouth.

Teachers a little lower.

Elders araound the chin.

The King and monks above the nose.

When waiing kids the thumbs should be in the ears.

yep :-)

One thing to add. Some farangs tend to think that waiing is about the raising the hands and rush it. THe timing is also important; if you are going to wai, then do it properly; don't just brush your hands together and put them back down.

Show the person some respect; IF you wai, then do it properly; push your hands together, wai them, and hold it for at least 2-3 seconds.

Nothing is more annoying than a person who wais for a microsecond, that is more insulting than not waiing at all.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2007-01-04 17:51:42)

QUOTE

As a farang you cannot be expected to get it right all of the time

Why not?

ignorant question ...........

possibly due to the fact that you haven't grown up with the culture .............

Pretty ignorant if you live in Thailand and can't wai. As a farang, I am/was capable of learning - aren't you?

As a farang tourist you cannot be expected to get it right all the time.

[bina]

to complicate matters:

u forgot to add that a thai's friends are 'same age' people only; every one else that seem as friends to u are his pi/nong......

when my husband says 'this is my friend' (puen) i know the guy is about 34 yrs old. if he says this is 'lek' w/o using nong before hand, then no wei until wei'd. if he says this is pi lek then i wei first with husband EVEN THOUGH i am 44 yrs old, since we are together , husband expects me to wei with him (or i get an elbow in the ribs type look as a hint).

when alone, i wei to elders, VIP'S etc with the wei in the appropriate place/height i just watch and do as others.

when leaving or greeting friends (of most ages that are close to ours) the wei is held longer and deeper as u would grab and hold someone's hand etc when greeting friends u havent seen in awhile as a way to emphasize the greeting/affection but only on the first times. if its ever day, then not.

nod of head to younger wei'ers/or people u really dont care about or dislike.

[steveromagnino]

to complicate matters:

u forgot to add that a thai's friends are 'same age' people only; every one else that seem as friends to u are his pi/nong......

well, actually technically everyone is pi/nong; I know that I am pi to people that are born in the same year same month, just happen to be a few days older....

As a term of affection, people might use Pi/nong... in work people of the same age might refer to me as Khun because I am more senior; and my really close friends and family might use different again ai instead or nothing at all, again all of the same age.

As the age gap gets bigger, then it starts to be a bit inappropriate to use pi/nong, and so instead goes to the more honorific Khun, Dta, Ba, Bpoo, Luung, Yai, Khun Yai, Khun Luung, then the Chinese Ah mah, Ah Sim, Ah Goo, Heea (low tone mind you!), Ah bpae, Ah gong, etc etc, and then there are also the formal ways to address by title, Doctor, Khun Mor, Khun Ajarn, Ajarn, Phoo Gong, Phoo Wah, Phoo Pun, Tahn Nai Pon, etc etc.

For most of the titles above, that is someone going to be more senior than you, and therefore, would be appropriate to wai first, even as a farang. Forgetting the age bit at this point, depending on the circumstance, seniority would not be completely age related.

Generally, though, for friends within say 5 years of eachother, then to wai is not necessary, but it is a mutual thing; kind of like how you don't really shake hands with your pals everytime you see them (although I had a few groups of friends from Pacific Islands in the past who would shake my hand everytime we saw eachother).

I don't really agree with the the idea that you are foreigner so you don't need to know this; if you are living here you should learn [edited, I just reread it and it sounds pretty lame!!!, thx Totster, and bring back the dancing host man with the bullseye target]. It takes maybe like 5 minutes to read this thread, plus a couple of mistakes along the way to get it right; mistakes are our way of getting better by doing, nothing wrong with that. So....if you cannot invest 15 minutes of your life because you are too busy to get this about right, then I take my hat off to you, you must have acheived a massive amount in your life to not have the time to learn something that makes a big difference for minimal effort :-)

Edited January 5, 2007 by steveromagnino

[Totster]

I ignore the idea that you are foreigner so you don't need to know this.

In case that was directed at my earlier comment about Farang not being expected to get it right all of the time, I still feel this is correct. There are some situations where we are bound to not get it right, this will obviously lessen with the amount of time spent in Thailand.

I would imagine someone who has spent a long time here could not really have any excuses.

totster

[tuky]

You want complicated, try bowing in Korea. I was returning bows from people serving me with what I thought was just a polite nod. Turns out I was wrong. "Only communists do that"

Whatever their job or station in life, treat them with respect.

And don't forget the complicated way to hand over, well anything really.

Try and pour a drink in Korea without using your right hand and then putting your left hand either on your chest or on your right arm, you will soon end up alone.

I wai my inlaws when I haven't seen them for a while, I wai if I enter a room and there are people gathered, but I find my wife's family wai me first (even if they are older) when they enter my house. I will wai them back.

But as a rule I usually stick with the slight bow method.

[ProThaiExpat]

I am usually older than almost anyone I encounter in Thailand and was dedicated to the "just nod" response to wai given to me.

However, I just joined a tennis club and everyone wais everyone else, regardless of age or sex. My Thai chastized me for my "nod response" for the first time and advised I wai anyone at the club that wais me. I did notice that the wais were often quite sloppy between Thais and given also with tennis racquet in hand.

I keep my tennis racquet handy so my wai can't be critized as to form as the raquet covers my inept performance.

It is going well and I am comfortable with doing this in this limited circumstance. I really "high waied" my partners mother, however, as she is older than me and of course the matriarch of that family.

I think I will pay more attention to wais given to me by social equals or people in authority or older etc.

[mrbojangles]

The height of the wai is important..the higher the wai and the deeper the bow..the more respect you are giving...for the average farang you shouldnt have to go higher than the thumb around the chin area.

When waiing parents the thumbs should be at the mouth.

Teachers a little lower.

Elders araound the chin.

The King and monks above the nose.

When waiing kids the thumbs should be in the ears.

I nearly missed that one

[chuchok]

I wai my inlaws when I haven't seen them for a while, I wai if I enter a room and there are people gathered, but I find my wife's family wai me first (even if they are older) when they enter my house. I will wai them back.

But as a rule I usually stick with the slight bow method.

About what I do too.

anyway, I said to the missus the other day

"wai don't you take your knickers off" and she said

"wai don't you <deleted> off"

[Neeranam]

About what I do too.

anyway, I said to the missus the other day

"wai don't you take your knickers off" and she said

"wai don't you <deleted> off"

[bina]

yeah wei ing with things in hand does make it look sloppier but i was never sure if i was supposed to still wei, or put things down first and then wei... especially now that everyone always has a cell phone in hand so the wei-er holds the phone inbetween the cupped hands, or do the half wei (seen many a woman doing that, sort of half handed wei while duel tasking....

yeah the pi/nong thing... but trust me, i got elbowed alot...to wei varioius people and anon used that sort of thing as a cue to depth and breadth of the wei (this is picham, she's like my sister-- big wei), this is dow, he my best friend (wei), this is noi, she's in college (no wei until wei'd), this is lunglek, he's the police something or other, (big deep long wei), this is the puu yai baan i worked for (long deep wei and smile, AND shake hand, limp like a fish).... my daughter just wei'd everybody to be on the safe side

i prefer the wei cause i'm a no contact type person and i hate when they do the 'u my fren' bit and grab my hand like a wet fish.... (and i'm a woman and i'm not big on handshaking anyway)-- in israel, women dont tend to shake hands and most men only with men (religious infringments etc)so i;m ok with the wei.

i find myself wei ing people here at home when thanking them for things (consulate ministery office types, and when deeply grateful to someone)

no wei's to service people just a sort of nod to acknowlege, just like anywhere in the world where they say thank u for shopping etc... if its the same teller everytime, maybe a larger smile or something.

[pampal]

How do you wai the buddha image?

[cdnvic]

How do you wai the buddha image?

The same as monks and royalty, though it's not a requirement to a buddha image as it is with the persons.