Spreaders of Conspiracy Theories: Unmasking the Motivations Behind the Lies

[webfact]

Cuba 'incidents' caused brain injury, nerve damage to diplomats - CBS News

 

FILE PHOTO: An exterior view of the U.S. Embassy is seen in Havana, Cuba, June 19, 2017. REUTERS/Alexandre Meneghini

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A doctor who evaluated American and Canadian diplomats working in Cuba diagnosed them with conditions as serious as mild traumatic brain injury and damage to the central nervous system, CBS News said on Wednesday, citing medical records it reviewed.

 

The diplomats had complained of symptoms including hearing loss, nausea, headaches and balance disorders after what were described as "incidents" that began affecting them in Havana beginning in late 2016, CBS News said.

 

Officials are investigating whether the diplomats were targets of some form of sonic attack directed at their homes, CBS reported, citing a source familiar with the incidents. The source said the incidents had continued to occur on the Communist-ruled island and that some U.S. diplomats had cut short their assignments there.

 

Asked about the CBS report, a U.S. State Department spokeswoman said the department did not have "definitive answers" on the source or cause of the incidents.

 

"An investigation into the incidents is ongoing," the spokeswoman said.

 

The department said earlier this month that a number of Americans serving in Cuba had returned to the United States for "medical reasons" that were not life-threatening.

 

Spokeswoman Heather Nauert said two weeks ago the State Department learned of incidents at its embassy in Havana in late 2016. She said they "caused a variety of physical symptoms" in U.S. government employees.

 

Several U.S. citizens at the embassy were evacuated over the past six months for treatment of a variety of complaints. Some subsequently received hearing aids.

 

Although Washington expelled two Cuban diplomats over the incidents, Cuba has said it was investigating the U.S. allegations and would never allow its territory to be used for any action against diplomatic personnel or their families.

 

"The Cuban government has assured us it is also investigating and taking appropriate measures," the State Department spokeswoman said on Wednesday.

 

A spokeswoman for Canada's foreign ministry said Canada likewise was working to determine the cause.

 

"At this time, we do not have any reason to believe Canadian tourists and other visitors could be affected," spokeswoman Brianne Maxwell told Reuters.

 

(Reporting by David Alexander; additional reporting by Yeganeh Torbati in Washington and David Ljunggren in Ottawa; Editing by Dan Grebler and Tom Brown)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-08-24

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

"The Cuban government has assured us it is also investigating and taking appropriate measures,"

i see, feel so much better

[impulse]

It will be fascinating to see where the investigations lead.  Unless, of course, the perpetrators (if there were any) were smart enough to pack up and scoot.

 

Could be a plot, or could be as simple as the pesticides they used, or the pipes carrying the water, or a mold growing in the buildings.

 

If they do discover a plot, think of the implications, not just in the diplomatic arena.  If it works on diplomats, it could work a treat on Olympic athletes.  Or military personnel living overseas (or even at home).

 

[kotsak]

Infrasound weapons? :) Those can be really nasty..

[tonray]

I have little doubt it is the Russians and not the Cubans. The Cubans have little to gain and a lot to lose but the Russians are retaliating for their property seizure and other transgressions from election meddling. 

 

An act of war IMHO.

[funandsuninbangkok]

Evacuate embassy staff immediately 

reimpose embargo 

insist on Democrocy for Cubans before going back

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Evacuate embassy staff immediately 

reimpose embargo 

insist on Democrocy for Cubans before going back

 

Sentence millions of Cubans to more decades of economic hardship because we don't like their leadership?

 

Aside from the human tragedy, has that ever worked in the history of embargoes?

 

[funandsuninbangkok]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Sentence millions of Cubans to more decades of economic hardship because we don't like their leadership?

 

Aside from the human tragedy, has that ever worked in the history of embargoes?

 

Every country except the US trades with Cuba. Poverty is a result of communism not the embargo. 

 

Its not not we don't like thier government. They have attacked our citizens. 

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Every country except the US trades with Cuba. Poverty is a result of communism not the embargo. 

 

Its not not we don't like thier government. They have attacked our citizens. 

 

At least 99.99% of them didn't.  Maybe 100% of Cubans.  Way too early to point fingers.  Or embargoes.

 

[jackh]

33 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Evacuate embassy staff immediately 

reimpose embargo 

insist on Democrocy for Cubans before going back

Trump is already on it. MAGA

[funandsuninbangkok]

33 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

At least 99.99% of them didn't.  Maybe 100% of Cubans.  Way too early to point fingers.  Or embargoes.

 

Wrong. Local Governments are responsible security of visiting embassy staff. Not creditable defense we did not do it. 

[Speedo1968]

I am sure the US would never dream of doing the same thing themselves .....

[impulse]

8 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Wrong. Local Governments are responsible security of visiting embassy staff. Not creditable defense we did not do it. 

 

Interesting then that the USA hasn't embargoed the half dozen countries where terrorists have attacked our embassies.

 

We're still pissed off that Castro stole back all the properties that the Batista Gang stole from the people, sold to US corporations and pocketed the proceeds.  That was over 60 years ago.  Time to let it go and normalize relations.  For the millions of innocent Cubans who just want to live their lives.

 

[craigt3365]

13 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

I am sure the US would never dream of doing the same thing themselves .....

Please provide proof of this otherwise you are trolling.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Evacuate embassy staff immediately 

reimpose embargo 

insist on Democrocy for Cubans before going back

Then what, let the Chinese set up camp in Cuba?

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

[impulse]

1 hour ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Every country except the US trades with Cuba. Poverty is a result of communism not the embargo. 

 

Interesting that Cuba's GDP per capita is higher than several dozen of the democracies.  Especially in Latin America.  Perhaps it's not the Communism as much as the endemic corruption?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Interesting then that the USA hasn't embargoed the half dozen countries where terrorists have attacked our embassies.

 

We're still pissed off that Castro stole back all the properties that the Batista Gang stole from the people, sold to US corporations and pocketed the proceeds.  That was over 60 years ago.  Time to let it go and normalize relations.  For the millions of innocent Cubans who just want to live their lives.

 

You're generalizing a lot. Many Cubans lost everything. Many were executed.

 

Most locals hate the government and love the US. They are treated terribly by the government. Absolutely horrible. Purely the fault of Castro and his desire to stay in power. No different than North Korea.

 

Worth a read. I've spent about a month in Cuba. Lived and ate with a local family. They are great people who deserve better leaders.

http://www.newsweek.com/us-cuba-property-claims-talks-404414

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/04/18/cuba-you-owe-billion/jHAufRfQJ9Bx24TuzQyBNO/story.html

 

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Interesting that Cuba's GDP per capita is higher than several dozen of the democracies.  Especially in Latin America.  Perhaps it's not the Communism as much as the endemic corruption?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

It's a police state. Rules against the locals are draconian. Undercover spies are everywhere.

 

Corruption is the #1 problem in most countries like Cuba.

[geriatrickid]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

It will be fascinating to see where the investigations lead.  Unless, of course, the perpetrators (if there were any) were smart enough to pack up and scoot.

 

Could be a plot, or could be as simple as the pesticides they used, or the pipes carrying the water, or a mold growing in the buildings.

 

If they do discover a plot, think of the implications, not just in the diplomatic arena.  If it works on diplomats, it could work a treat on Olympic athletes.  Or military personnel living overseas (or even at home).

 

The injuries are not consistent with any of the items you reference. These are the direct result of auditory assaults. The  injuries were sustained outside the embassies, in the residential compounds of the diplomats.  I don't believe that the Cubans had anything to do with it either. There are other countries who have had a free hand to  do whatever they want and  one should look at the Russians, Chinese, North Koreans and their proxy country agents. I suggest that the US and Canadian governments have a good idea  who was responsible.

[Berkshire]

20 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Then what, let the Chinese set up camp in Cuba?

Nevermind the Chinese....if the US doesn't want to normalize relations with Cuba, perhaps the N. Korean's will.  Can you imagine a N. Korean military base in Cuba? 

[impulse]

46 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Worth a read. I've spent about a month in Cuba. Lived and ate with a local family. They are great people who deserve better leaders.

 

I agree with you.  But embargoes historically never work against dictators.  All they do is impoverish the people, who do deserve better.  It's been in place for 50 years and even an idiot should figure it out after 50 years.  Unless there's something else going on and I contend that's the fruit, oil and "entertainment" corporations still pissed off that the stolen property they bought for cheap was taken back.  

 

If I buy a stolen house or a stolen car, I don't get to keep it.  And my recourse isn't with the original owner.  It's with the guy who stole it and sold it to me.  That's the Batista Gang.  And it's not as if many of our "allies" haven't nationalized a lot of US owned assets without adequate remuneration.

 

And as far as the purges that took place under Castro, how is that any different from the purges that have taken place in so many other countries with which we trade freely today- under the same governments?  

 

I'm not defending the killing or the nationalization, or the draconian laws.  Just pointing out inconsistencies in the way the US treats countries and the unique hard-on we seem to have about Cuba.  And the fact that it's not working and never has.

 

Edit:  And I know it's the wingnut conspiracy fan in me, but I have this vision of 80 year old retired CIA guys getting together at the bar once a week to scheme up how to stir the Castro pot.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by impulse

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I agree with you.  But embargoes historically never work against dictators.  All they do is impoverish the people, who do deserve better.  It's been in place for 50 years and even an idiot should figure it out after 50 years.  Unless there's something else going on and I contend that's the fruit, oil and "entertainment" corporations still pissed off that the stolen property they bought for cheap was taken back.  

 

If I buy a stolen house or a stolen car, I don't get to keep it.  And my recourse isn't with the original owner.  It's with the guy who stole it and sold it to me.  That's the Batista Gang.  And it's not as if many of our "allies" haven't nationalized a lot of US owned assets without adequate remuneration.

 

And as far as the purges that took place under Castro, how is that any different from the purges that have taken place in so many other countries with which we trade freely today- under the same governments?  

 

I'm not defending the killing or the nationalization, or the draconian laws.  Just pointing out inconsistencies in the way the US treats countries and the unique hard-on we seem to have about Cuba.  And the fact that it's not working and never has.

 

So Coke bought their business there for cheap? Private homeowners did the same?  Those with bank accounts who lost it all were in the wrong?  Seriously? Yes, some did take advantage of this,  like in the sugar industry. But not all.

 

It's all up to their leaders. Don't blame the US for all of this. Yes, there were many problems with Batista. Corrupt to the core. Who was replaced by another dictator that was corrupt to the core.  LOL

 

Anyway,  we're way off topic. Having spent some time there and developed some close relationships, I get a bit too passionate!

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

So Coke bought their business there for cheap? Private homeowners did the same?  Those with bank accounts who lost it all were in the wrong?  Seriously? Yes, some did take advantage of this,  like in the sugar industry. But not all.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the Mafia who turned downtown Havana into a big brothel and flew in junkets of mongers each weekend.  That usually leaves a foul taste in the natives' mouth.  And United Fruit (et al.).  They have their grimy fingerprints all over the Banana Republics- with assassinations, coups, and heartache.

 

http://unitedfruit.org/chron.htm

 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

I've spent about a month in Cuba. Lived and ate with a local family. They are great people who deserve better leaders.

 

If I stayed with a family in Isaan, I'd get a very different picture of the government than if I stayed with a family in downtown BKK, and different again if I stayed with one in Yala.

 

I think you realize that you and I are closer on this than our back and forth here would indicate.  I'm not supporting Castro or his despicable regime as much as pointing out the futility of holding the Cuban people under an embargo.  50 years in and it's still not working and Castro's dead.  So I'm naturally suspicious of why we continue on a path that harms the people of Cuba.  Especially given the pragmatic policy of engagement with so many other countries we used to fear more than Cuba.  We share so much culturally with them, not to mention they're our neighbors. (And, most importantly,  the next world record largemouth bass may well come from Cuban waters)

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by impulse

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 I don't believe that the Cubans had anything to do with it either. There are other countries who have had a free hand to  do whatever they want and  one should look at the Russians, Chinese, North Koreans and their proxy country agents. I suggest that the US and Canadian governments have a good idea  who was responsible.

 

Ahh.... how much we long for the good ole' simpler days of warfare....  When Hitler blitzed London, nobody had to wonder whether it was German planes dropping the bombs.  When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, all you had to do was look up at see the rising sun ensignias on their planes.  But these days, it's often not so simple or clear.

 

In this case, based on the report, it would appear to pretty clearly have been an attack of some sort. But whether the Cubans themselves possess that kind of technology, I tend to doubt. On the other hand, I wouldn't put it past the Russians, Chinese or North Koreans or people acting at their behest.  These days, it seems, no one wants to poop in their own backyard where they're going to automatically be blamed. Better that it's somewhere and someone else who is made to look responsible.

 

Obviously sonic disruption technology exists. But have there ever been any documented cases anywhere of it having been using as a weapon against citizens???

 

 

[IAMHERE]

My take on this is that Cuba has planted listening devices that use sonic excitement to create electricity to work and the Cubans screwed up the sonic frequency enough to do damage to the people. The US (and probably Canada) knows this but doesn't want to create a problem with the Cubans. 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

11 hours ago, impulse said:

It will be fascinating to see where the investigations lead.  Unless, of course, the perpetrators (if there were any) were smart enough to pack up and scoot.

 

Could be a plot, or could be as simple as the pesticides they used, or the pipes carrying the water, or a mold growing in the buildings.

 

If they do discover a plot, think of the implications, not just in the diplomatic arena.  If it works on diplomats, it could work a treat on Olympic athletes.  Or military personnel living overseas (or even at home).

 

Good point. Easy to zap a breakout rider in Tour de France and it will be darn hard to complete a 4 hour mountain stage with a raging headache.

 

[funandsuninbangkok]

13 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Then what, let the Chinese set up camp in Cuba?

Already happening

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba-china-analysis-idUSKBN15T2PE

 

kick Cuba in the balls for attacking our embassy staff. Make em hurt bad and tell thier people we're done putting up with this crap.

 

time for regime change. 

 

Go back when in after they cut down from the lamppost Castro's dead body 

Edited August 24, 2017 by funandsuninbangkok