UK police broke law in case of British backpackers murdered on Koh Tao

[webfact]

UK police broke law in case of British backpackers murdered in Thailand

Vikram Dodd Police and crime correspondent

 

Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered on the island of Koh Tao in September 2014. Photograph: PA /The Guardian

 

National Crime Agency breached rules by passing information to Thai police that led to death sentences, high court rules

 

LONDON: -- The National Crime Agency in the UK has been forced to admit it acted unlawfully when it gave information to Thai police that helped send two men to death row for murdering two British backpackers.

 

The NCA supplied phone record evidence and intelligence to investigators in Thailand following the September 2014 murders of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on the island of Koh Tao.

 

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both Burmese nationals, were convicted of the murders in 2015 after a trial which the anti-death penalty group Reprieve said was unfair. They face execution by lethal injection, and claim to have been tortured.

 

On Tuesday, the high court in London found against the NCA – Britain’s version of the FBI – in a case brought by lawyers for Lin and Phyo.

 

Full story: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/29/uk-police-broke-law-in-case-of-british-backpackers-murdered-in-thailand

 

-- The Guardian 2017-08-30

[z42]

In a word, diabolical. I maintain that there is not a single piece of evidence in this case that proves beyond any doubt that these Burmese lads currently on death row raped and killed anyone. The evidence presented simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and the fact that the only evidence that was scrutinized (the murder weapon) didn't have any trace of the supposed killers on it, NONE.

This is a fit up, pure and simple, and a horribly constructed one at that. The fact that the phone evidence has been used in such a way (a way that does not prove either rape or murder) then it should be another major piece needed to exonerate the B2. Shame on the UK authorities for their conduct also, an utter disgrace however you spin it.

[4evermaat]

And what exactly does this have to do with Thai police not conducting a proper investigation or sentencing 2 [likely innocent] Burmese nationals to their death?  The crime took place in Thailand.  Sounds like two completely separate issues.

Edited August 29, 2017 by 4evermaat

[LomSak27]

Just now, 4evermaat said:

What does this have to do with Thai police not conducting a proper investigation or sentencing 2 [likely innocent] Burmese nationals to their death?  Sounds like two completely separate issues.

Nothing

 

but that is what so cool about it - NOW it is the  NCA who are responsible ..... hehe. The BiB are laughing today!

[Samui Bodoh]

"Reprieve said the evidence and intelligence was used selectively against Lin and Phyo, and that the NCA material potentially pointed to other suspects that could have bolstered the defence case. However, this information was not given to the defence team."

From the Guardian story

 

Way to go, UK police.

 

You have likely helped to convict two innocent men.

 

What a proud day.

 

[davehowden]

" The NCA supplied phone record evidence and intelligence to investigators in Thailand "  " the NCA passed Miller’s phone location data to Thai police, enabling prosecutors to say the suspects were in the same area as their alleged victim. "

 

When asked why the UK equivalent of the FBI had acted illegally in this case the then titular head of the NCA replied "Brexit mean Brexit"

[over it]

No matter what happened, someone was going to get fitted, and it wasn't going to be the real culprits.

 

Remember? "No Thai could do this".

Too many tourist dollars on the line.

[AGareth2]

Shame!

[catman20]

25 minutes ago, over it said:

No matter what happened, someone was going to get fitted, and it wasn't going to be the real culprits.

 

Remember? "No Thai could do this".

Too many tourist dollars on the line.

how can this sort of thing go on in 2017 with DNA and the hole world looking at this case its like being back in the cave men days. unbelievable 

[greenchair]

I do wonder what the other evidence it is that was handed to the prosecution. 

Could it be the confirmed dna match of those 2 guilty sods. 

The fact that the nca took the risk of handing over such evidence, just tells me by their investigations, they believe the b2 guilty also. 

There may well have been others there, right along with the b2. 

[darksidedog]

"Following the murders, the NCA passed Miller’s phone location data to Thai police, enabling prosecutors to say the suspects were in the same area as their alleged victim."

This seems dubious evidence at best, as many other people would have been in the general area as well. Including a certain Head mans son. Shameful that a piece of evidence illegally obtained was a critical factor, and also shows the desperation of the Thais to convict them, especially since they had no real evidence of their own.

[dotpoom]

1 hour ago, 4evermaat said:

And what exactly does this have to do with Thai police not conducting a proper investigation or sentencing 2 [likely innocent] Burmese nationals to their death?  The crime took place in Thailand.  Sounds like two completely separate issues.

The information was able to place them in the region where the crime took place.

[alfalfa19]

And of course, the Thai police force conducted themselves impeccably, as always.  

[Crash999]

1 hour ago, z42 said:

In a word, diabolical. I maintain that there is not a single piece of evidence in this case that proves beyond any doubt that these Burmese lads currently on death row raped and killed anyone. The evidence presented simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and the fact that the only evidence that was scrutinized (the murder weapon) didn't have any trace of the supposed killers on it, NONE.

This is a fit up, pure and simple, and a horribly constructed one at that. The fact that the phone evidence has been used in such a way (a way that does not prove either rape or murder) then it should be another major piece needed to exonerate the B2. Shame on the UK authorities for their conduct also, an utter disgrace however you spin it.

Interesting logic. You say there's no evidence but the UK police presented evidence. 

 

Then you say the UK police presented evidence but phones can't be evidence. Therefore the Burmese should be set free. 

 

If if I commit murder I want you as my judge! 

[anon467367354]

it almost looks like to me that the Thai police are doing the right thing but saving face by finding a way to blame someone else. These boys need to go free and I think everybody knows it.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, z42 said:

In a word, diabolical. I maintain that there is not a single piece of evidence in this case that proves beyond any doubt that these Burmese lads currently on death row raped and killed anyone. The evidence presented simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and the fact that the only evidence that was scrutinized (the murder weapon) didn't have any trace of the supposed killers on it, NONE.

This is a fit up, pure and simple, and a horribly constructed one at that. The fact that the phone evidence has been used in such a way (a way that does not prove either rape or murder) then it should be another major piece needed to exonerate the B2. Shame on the UK authorities for their conduct also, an utter disgrace however you spin it.

We will never know the truth now, are they guilty or not ? One thing however is clear, they were not proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt as should be required by law.

[madmitch]

This would be nothing but circumstantial evidence. Also didn't the Burmese guys admit to being in the same general vicinity, or is my memory playing tricks?

[maoro2013]

2 hours ago, z42 said:

In a word, diabolical. I maintain that there is not a single piece of evidence in this case that proves beyond any doubt that these Burmese lads currently on death row raped and killed anyone. The evidence presented simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and the fact that the only evidence that was scrutinized (the murder weapon) didn't have any trace of the supposed killers on it, NONE.

This is a fit up, pure and simple, and a horribly constructed one at that. The fact that the phone evidence has been used in such a way (a way that does not prove either rape or murder) then it should be another major piece needed to exonerate the B2. Shame on the UK authorities for their conduct also, an utter disgrace however you spin it.

No evidence that we have been provided anyway. 

 

I totally agree with you, fit up 100%

[edwinchester]

49 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I do wonder what the other evidence it is that was handed to the prosecution. 

Could it be the confirmed dna match of those 2 guilty sods. 

The fact that the nca took the risk of handing over such evidence, just tells me by their investigations, they believe the b2 guilty also. 

There may well have been others there, right along with the b2. 

If the Thai prosecution were happy to accept phone evidence that placed the Burmese near to the scene, something they had admitted to anyway when they said they were drinking on the beach, then surely the same prosecution would have presented confirmation of dna results if handed over by the UK Police.

It could also be speculated, for that is what you are doing about unproduced evidence, that the reason evidence was not presented is that it did not back up the Thai case.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

They will kill these boys and later someone will confess to these murders and because they confess they will not be given the death penalty. Ironical and sad. 

[csabo]

2 hours ago, 4evermaat said:

And what exactly does this have to do with Thai police not conducting a proper investigation or sentencing 2 [likely innocent] Burmese nationals to their death?  The crime took place in Thailand.  Sounds like two completely separate issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

[NextStationBangkok]

Sounds like this case will reach up to International Court of Justice. Hope these guys will be at least pardoned by General Pryooth, before it is gone out of hands of Thailand.

[csabo]

31 minutes ago, madmitch said:

This would be nothing but circumstantial evidence. Also didn't the Burmese guys admit to being in the same general vicinity, or is my memory playing tricks?

It's not your memory playing tricks, it's your lack of knowledge of how a criminal investigation and prosecution works.  Suspect claims including confessions must be supported by evidence. 

[soistalker]

I don't know how you guys are going to take this, but I try to limit my interaction with Thai men as much as possible. I am married, so I don't hang around the bars and I don't bring hookers back to my condo. I am usually inside by dark, but if not, I am around other people and not isolated. These things, I believe, keep me safe.

But as a younger man, I remember being with my farang girlfriend on vacation on Koh Chang. This would have been back in 2002, when there were really not a lot of tourists. We walked down the beach at night holding hands and kissing. I didn't see it as dangerous, and it turned out that it wasn't, but I wouldn't do it these days as I would think twice due to it not being safe, but also that Thai men are allowed to assault and hurt farangs with little chance of being prosecuted. Remember the watch seller who got a 500 baht fine for stabbing a farang?! What kind of signal does it send to Thais that they can hurt us and, if not caught in the act (unlikely), that the police are too incompetent or indifferent to do anything about it.

That time on Koh Chang, we were sitting around a fire with mostly farang. One young Thai guy in his 20s was acting like Mr. Big man, smoking marijuana with the female tourists. I couldn't figure out whether he was tried to get laid or trying selling weed, but it wasn't any of my business. He looked at me and asked me where I was from. I said America. He gave me an evil look and said that he didn't like America. I let it go, because I didn't give a <deleted> what he thought and I was isolated on the beach with my girlfriend.

Be careful. Smile to everyone. Don't argue with a Thai. Don't get overly drunk in pubic. Don't get pushed off your deck by someone you brought home. And stay as far away from ladyboys as you can. They are mostly unstable.

[soistalker]

7 minutes ago, Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere said:

They will kill these boys and later someone will confess to these murders and because they confess they will not be given the death penalty. Ironical and sad. 

Absurd. Why would someone confess so long after the act? 

[Pilotman]

4 minutes ago, soistalker said:

I don't know how you guys are going to take this, but I try to limit my interaction with Thai men as much as possible. I am married, so I don't hang around the bars and I don't bring hookers back to my condo. I am usually inside by dark, but if not, I am around other people and not isolated. These things, I believe, keep me safe.

But as a younger man, I remember being with my farang girlfriend on vacation on Koh Chang. This would have been back in 2002, when there were really not a lot of tourists. We walked down the beach at night holding hands and kissing. I didn't see it as dangerous, and it turned out that it wasn't, but I wouldn't do it these days as I would think twice due to it not being safe, but also that Thai men are allowed to assault and hurt farangs with little chance of being prosecuted. Remember the watch seller who got a 500 baht fine for stabbing a farang?! What kind of signal does it send to Thais that they can hurt us and, if not caught in the act (unlikely), that the police are too incompetent or indifferent to do anything about it.

That time on Koh Chang, we were sitting around a fire with mostly farang. One young Thai guy in his 20s was acting like Mr. Big man, smoking marijuana with the female tourists. I couldn't figure out whether he was tried to get laid or trying selling weed, but it wasn't any of my business. He looked at me and asked me where I was from. I said America. He gave me an evil look and said that he didn't like America. I let it go, because I didn't give a <deleted> what he thought and I was isolated on the beach with my girlfriend.

Be careful. Smile to everyone. Don't argue with a Thai. Don't get overly drunk in pubic. Don't get pushed off your deck by someone you brought home. And stay as far away from ladyboys as you can. They are mostly unstable.

I wouldn't walk around in a secluded area, with my  wife, at night, in many world wide locations, including a lot of Europe and the US. Hell, I didn't go down to my local town centre at night in the UK , at least not at a weekend. There were two rapes and one stabbing there in 2016 and that was not a national story. 

[snowgard]

49 minutes ago, gr8fldanielle said:

it almost looks like to me that the Thai police are doing the right thing but saving face by finding a way to blame someone else. These boys need to go free and I think everybody knows it.

I don't know it!!! 

It is 100% right that the BiB's made a lot of things wrong. But this doesn't mean that this 2 guys are innocent. 
The biggest point is that "No one TRUST the BiB's after all wrongdoings in this case and others!!!"

We all never got all evidences and informations to judge about this case. So no one of us can say 100% right that they are scapegoats or the real murders.

[fxe1200]

Remember this one?? Click on CC for English subtitles.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peaD7E6cUso

 

[snowgard]

 

22 minutes ago, Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere said:

They will kill these boys and later someone will confess to these murders and because they confess they will not be given the death penalty. Ironical and sad. 

Maybe not!!! In the US the risks are much more higher for this.

[wvavin]

Confusion, confusion and more confusion.