Non imm B visa for coming to Thailand for meetings - not working here - experiences?

[Argus Tuft]

Hoping some forum member may have advice or preferably personal experience on my query.

 

I live and work in a nearby country, but my company's head office is here in Thailand.

I am required to visit here regularly to meet with my employer and coordinate our operations in the other country

 

I am paid and resident in a neighbouring country (won't say here, as this is a general question)

 

The majority of Non-B's are tied to a work permit, but what about getting a Non-B visa for business visits when I am not employed in Thailand?

 

Feel free to ask questions, but I think the above is self explanatory

[jackdd]

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15388-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"B"-(for-Business-and.html

(2)   Foreigners who wish to conduct business in Thailand must provide the following documents:

[lkv]

You should discuss with the respective Embassy / Consulate about a multiple entry NonB, valid for 12 months.

 

There are strict conditions in issuing this type of visa, and every place will have different requirements.

 

Alternatively, if they do not wish to issue the multi entry non B, they may suggest Multiple Entry tourist visa (METV).

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by lkv

[Argus Tuft]

Thanks for the replies so far, very helpful

 

As I have worked for this company for a while in Thailand, I have previously held a work permit on 12mth Multiple entry Non-Imm B's.  Since then, I have moved to another country to run the company's office there.

So I do not want to now use tourist visas

[elviajero]

You shouldn't have a problem getting a ME non-immigrant 'B' visa with the support of the Thai company.

 

Generally you are limited in what you can do without a work permit, but attending meetings isn't usually a problem. However, if you are an employee of the Thai company you're visiting you will probably need a work permit regardless of what you're doing.

[Argus Tuft]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

You shouldn't have a problem getting a ME non-immigrant 'B' visa with the support of the Thai company.

 

Generally you are limited in what you can do without a work permit, but attending meetings isn't usually a problem. However, if you are an employee of the Thai company you're visiting you will probably need a work permit regardless of what you're doing.

Its more of a franchise.  Separate company offices opened in various countries.  I am no longer an employee of the Thai company

[lkv]

Multiple Entry Non-Immigrant Visas type B are nowadays issued on a case by case basis. The best place to have your questions answered is by contacting the respective Embassy / Consulate.

[vaultdweller0013]

You will probably be fine coming in on visa exempt (or visa on arrival) if you qualify based on your nationality as long as it is for short trips. Several people at the company I work for do this on a regular basis using Australian, Indian (VOA), and Singaporean passports. And before the naysayers chime in, I have asked them about their experiences since the start of the various "crackdowns" started a couple of years ago and they haven't noticed any changes. 

 

Whether or not this is technically legal or not would depend on the specific task you do while here, but if you are bonafide employee of a reasonably sized company in another country, you should be able to say you are here for "meetings to discuss operations in country <X>" and pass through fine.

 

However, I will note that none of these people worked in Thailand before, so that could be a complication, but your average immigration officer isn't out there to deny legitimate business people entry, lest they get a call from, for example, in the case of my company, a C-level executive from one of the several SET listed companies that are my company's clients because a meeting had to be cancelled.

 

 

 

[Argus Tuft]

4 minutes ago, vaultdweller0013 said:

You will probably be fine coming in on visa exempt (or visa on arrival) if you qualify based on your nationality as long as it is for short trips. Several people at the company I work for do this on a regular basis using Australian, Indian (VOA), and Singaporean passports. And before the naysayers chime in, I have asked them about their experiences since the start of the various "crackdowns" started a couple of years ago and they haven't noticed any changes. 

 

Whether or not this is technically legal or not would depend on the specific task you do while here, but if you are bonafide employee of a reasonably sized company in another country, you should be able to say you are here for "meetings to discuss operations in country <X>" and pass through fine.

 

However, I will note that none of these people worked in Thailand before, so that could be a complication, but your average immigration officer isn't out there to deny legitimate business people entry, lest they get a call from, for example, in the case of my company, a C-level executive from one of the several SET listed companies that are my company's clients because a meeting had to be cancelled.

 

 

 

Visa exemption is totally different to visa on arrival

 

And Visa exemption is granted solely for tourism purposes

 

So no, this is not the route I wish to travel down.  I'll chime in as a naysayer here, in your wording.

[Argus Tuft]

 

http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/changes-visa-exempt.php

 

Visa Exemption and Bilateral Agreement

(Last updated: May 26, 2017)
 
Passport Holders who can enter Thailand without a Visa

The VISA EXEMPTION RULE allows tourists from 55 countries¹ to enter Thailand without a visa. They are granted to stay a maximum of 30 days if they are entering Thailand via an international airport or entering through a land border checkpoint from neighboring countries.

Under the new provisions of the VISA EXEMPTION RULE and BILATERAL AGREEMENT effective December 31, 2016, passport holders of 55 countries are entitled to enter Thailand under this rule provided that they meet the following criteria:
 

1. The visit is strictly for tourism purposes.

[vaultdweller0013]

2 minutes ago, Argus Tuft said:

Visa exemption is totally different to visa on arrival

 

And Visa exemption is granted solely for tourism purposes

 

So no, this is not the route I wish to travel down.  I'll chime in as a naysayer here, in your wording.

Visa exempt covers several business related activities, meetings, conferences, investment research, etc. The Ministry of Labor clarified this a year or so ago. So, no, its not just for tourism, and I know that immigration isn't concerned about this usage of visa exempt fro discussing with my co-workers.

[Argus Tuft]

1 minute ago, vaultdweller0013 said:

Visa exempt covers several business related activities, meetings, conferences, investment research, etc. The Ministry of Labor clarified this a year or so ago. So, no, its not just for tourism, and I know that immigration isn't concerned about this usage of visa exempt fro discussing with my co-workers.

No, Visa Exemption doesn't cover those.  See above

[Argus Tuft]

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15405-General-information.html

 

 

General Information

1. Generally, a foreign citizen who wishes to enter the Kingdom of Thailand is required to obtain a visa from a Royal Thai Embassy or a Royal Thai Consulate-General.  However, nationals of certain countries do not require a visa if they meet visa exemption requirements as follows:

(1) they are nationals of countries which are exempted from visa requirements when entering Thailand for tourism purposes.  Such nationals will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a period of not exceeding 30 days.  For more information, please see Summary of Countries and Territories entitled for Visa Exemption and Visa on Arrival to Thailand .
(2) they are nationals of countries which hold bilateral agreements with Thailand on the exemption of visa requirements.  For more information, please see Summary of Countries and Territories entitled for Visa Exemption and Visa on Arrival to Thailand . 

[vaultdweller0013]

Just now, Argus Tuft said:

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15405-General-information.html

 

 

General Information

1. Generally, a foreign citizen who wishes to enter the Kingdom of Thailand is required to obtain a visa from a Royal Thai Embassy or a Royal Thai Consulate-General.  However, nationals of certain countries do not require a visa if they meet visa exemption requirements as follows:

(1) they are nationals of countries which are exempted from visa requirements when entering Thailand for tourism purposes.  Such nationals will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a period of not exceeding 30 days.  For more information, please see Summary of Countries and Territories entitled for Visa Exemption and Visa on Arrival to Thailand .
(2) they are nationals of countries which hold bilateral agreements with Thailand on the exemption of visa requirements.  For more information, please see Summary of Countries and Territories entitled for Visa Exemption and Visa on Arrival to Thailand . 

If that is how you feel, then I won't try to change your mind. 

 

I will simply say that I have co-workers who come here on visa exempt multiple times a month for meetings and none have had issues entering on visa exempt with the stated purpose of "meetings".

 

This was clarified to be OK in 2015 by the Thai government, but tracking down a government.reference for this is not easy. You could start at http://www.emigra.com/news/thailand-expanded-list-of-activities-considered-not-working/ if it that important to you.

[Argus Tuft]

Appreciate your input, but I am asking about obtaining a Non-Imm B visa for the purposes of coming to Thailand for meetings, without working here or requiring a work permit - on the basis of my employment in a neighbouring country

 

It is not how I feel - it is how I want to achieve my purpose legally.

 

You are intent on pushing an illegal way of entering the country for business purposes.  I am not sure how to make this any clearer to you, but arriving on a visa exemption is restricted to tourism purpose ONLY with no exceptions.  Whether your colleagues have come in to work on visa exemptions or not is irrelevant.  

 

You have contradicted yourself in first saying it that the Ministry of Labour had clarified something a year or so ago, and then saying it was to be clarified.  There was no such change to the criteria for visa exemption entry to Thailand

 

Now, if we can get back to the topic at hand - please see my OP

[vaultdweller0013]

3 minutes ago, Argus Tuft said:

Appreciate your input, but I am asking about obtaining a Non-Imm B visa for the purposes of coming to Thailand for meetings, without working here or requiring a work permit - on the basis of my employment in a neighbouring country

 

It is not how I feel - it is how I want to achieve my purpose legally.

 

You are intent on pushing an illegal way of entering the country for business purposes.  I am not sure how to make this any clearer to you, but arriving on a visa exemption is restricted to tourism purpose ONLY with no exceptions.  Whether your colleagues have come in to work on visa exemptions or not is irrelevant.  

 

You have contradicted yourself in first saying it that the Ministry of Labour had clarified something a year or so ago, and then saying it was to be clarified.  There was no such change to the criteria for visa exemption entry to Thailand

 

Now, if we can get back to the topic at hand - please see my OP

What I said is that it is hard to find the actual clarification, specifically:

 

Memo of Office of the Council of State No. 152/2556

 

If you are serious about doing things legally, that is the reference you need to find.

[lkv]

You want to do things legally.

 

Your mistake is, you are using Western logic in Thailand.

 

You'd be better off using Thai logic.

 

Thai Logic means this:

 

When I tried to apply for a multi entry nonB at an Embassy in a neighbouring country that I will not mention, I was given every sort of possible excuse:

 

A. Why don't you apply in your home country and come here (Answer: because they wont <deleted>#ing give me a multi non B without a WP that's why)

 

B. You want to live in Thailand I know.

 

C. Maybe I can give you METV (only for a split second due to statement over 200K)

 

D. Maybe actually i can only give you Single Entry NonB or SETV.

 

E. Why don't you just use tourist visas (the consul was recommending i use tourist visas for business meetings, yes - go figure).

 

The Embassies / Consulates have been given a "directive" coming from the top to issue these visas in exceptional circumstances. If the Thai Company is solid (i.e. paid good tax, the financial statements of it look great etc), and so is the company of the country you're a resident of, then you may convince the Consulate / Embassy to issue you one of these visas.

 

Several places have restricted already the issuance of multi non immigrant visas of any type, not only non B.

 

Look at Hull, you can't even find the word "multiple" anymore on their website, it's all single....single...single. B, O, ED etc. The only exception is METV.

 

The fact you don't enjoy tourist visas is solely your problem I'm afraid, given the circumstances.

 

For people that are under the impression this "crackdown" is taking place because of "overstayers" or "tourist visa abusers", I would like to reassure you it is only a way to monetize "paid options" such as Elite.

 

The latest proof is the brand new non O-X visa, and the conditions of it. I am reffering to the overpriced Thai insurance scam.

 

You want multi non B, follow the WP Penang route at a cost of app. 50K ( via agent).

 

Should both the Thai and the foreign companiy have solid financials, discuss this matter with that particular Embassy / Consulate.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by lkv

[Mattd]

You will have no problem in obtaining a ME non-b visa so long as your company provides the correct documentation, this visa will allow you to conduct business meetings etc. a non-b visa is not solely issued for working in Thailand with a work permit.

[seancbk]

I collected a 90 day Non B from Ho Chi Minh on the 1st August.

Very easy consulate to deal with and HCMC is a lovely place to visit.

I do not have a work permit, this 90 day Non B is just so I can be here doing some consulting for a local company on behalf of a HK company.

Incidentally my visa does not have the "Employment Prohibited" text on it.   They simply wrote the name of the company in Thailand I'm here to consult with.

[Autonuaq]

Hi,

 

use searches like this

Thailand no visa needed business meetings

Thailand – Expanded List of Activities Considered “Not Working”

 

Thailand – Expanded List of Activities Considered “Not Working”

 

you will find Foreigner Working Act of B.E. 2551 (2008) then you will find the update:

What has changed

Effective from March 13, 2015, Thailand’s Employment Department announced an expanded list of activities which are considered to be “not working” activities under Thailand’s Alien Occupation Act. Specified activities that are considered “not working” will no longer require an Urgent Work Permit (UWP).

Previously all business related activities, including attending meetings and seminars, required an UWP.

Who is affected?
What to expect

• Foreigners traveling to Thailand for general business meetings or discussions

As a result of the expanded list of activities considered “not working”, the following activities no longer require work authorization:

1. Attending a conference, gathering information, or seminars
2. Visiting/viewing exhibitions or trade shows
3. Visiting businesses or holding meeting discussions
4. Attending special lectures and educational forums (audience participant)
5. Attending technical training and seminars (audience participant)
6. Buying products at a trade show
7. Attending Board/or Directors Meeting in his/her own company

Business travelers to Thailand should be aware that some activities will still require an UWP, such as providing training, speaking at a conference, or representing a company at a trade show.

Foreigners traveling to Thailand to conduct business in one of the above activities may enter Thailand on a visa exempt or visa-on-arrival basis or on a Non-Immigrant B visa.

 

 

2. Foreigners entering Thailand for the following purposes of trading and investment are not regarded as working and need no work permit and no Tor Tor 10 form:

1. Participating in meetings, conferences or seminars
2. Attending exhibitions or trade shows
3. Visiting businesses or having business meetings
4. Attending special or academic lectures
5. Attending lectures at technical trainings or seminars
6. Purchasing goods at trade shows

 

 

[blackcab]

12 hours ago, vaultdweller0013 said:

Visa exempt covers several business related activities, meetings, conferences, investment research, etc. The Ministry of Labor clarified this a year or so ago. So, no, its not just for tourism, and I know that immigration isn't concerned about this usage of visa exempt fro discussing with my co-workers.

 

The Ministry of Labour did not clarify this at all. What they said was a specified list of activities did not require a work permit.

 

The Ministry of Labour said nothing about the immigration status of those people carrying out the specified activities.

 

It would be highly unusual for one government department (Ministry of Labour) to speak on behalf of another government department (Immigration).

 

I have no idea what Immigration's position on what the correct visa would be however. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by blackcab

[TerryLH]

"You have contradicted yourself in first saying..."

"I am required to visit here regularly to meet with my employer..."

"I am no longer an employee of the Thai company"

[Argus Tuft]

3 hours ago, TerryLH said:

"You have contradicted yourself in first saying..."

"I am required to visit here regularly to meet with my employer..."

"I am no longer an employee of the Thai company"

The parent company is in Thailand, ie our head office. (the company has offices in 16 countries).  I manage the company's business in another country.  My employer, the owner of the Parent Company, is in Thailand.

Before moving to run the office in another country, I was employed here.  I am no longer employed here, so I am no longer an employee of the Thai company.  Understand??

 

Nowhere have I contradicted myself.  Try reading next time please.

 

And kindly do not take my quotes out of context.  Quote in full, instead of hit and run snippets.  It is against the rules of this forum to take quotes out of context.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Argus Tuft

[ericthai]

Is your home country or country that you have a passport from apart of ASEAN?  If so you can 

get an ASEAN member card and get 90 entry for business.  I know a friend of mine from OZ

had one a few years ago. He would do boarder runs show his ASEAN card and get 90 days. 

[Maestro]

7 hours ago, Argus Tuft said:

The parent company is in Thailand, ie our head office. (the company has offices in 16 countries).  I manage the company's business in another country.  My employer, the owner of the Parent Company, is in Thailand.

Before moving to run the office in another country, I was employed here.  I am no longer employed here, so I am no longer an employee of the Thai company.  Understand??

 

I don't know about others but I, for one, am a bit confused. I doubt very much that legally, the owner of the parent company in Thailand is your employer. Based on what you have so far written in this topic it looks to me that in fact and for the purpose of your application for a multiple-entry non-B visa the situation is as follows:

 

1. Your employer is a company registered and operating in a non-Thai country; let's call it Delta Comany or DELTA, for short.

 

2. Delta is a subsidiary company of a company registered and operating in Thailand; let's call it ALPHA, for short.

 

3.  ALPHA has invited you to visit them several times per year for business meetings.

 

4. DELTA requires you to travel to Thailand several times per year for business meetings with ALPHA.

 

Points 3 and 4 above are the basis for your application for the ME non-B visa. You should enclose with your application a letter of invitation from ALPHA and a letter from your employer, DELTA. The latter should state that [your name] is employed by DELTA in the position of [your job title] and is required to travel frequently to Thailand for business meetings with ALPHA, and ask that the the consulate should kindly issue the necessary visa to [your name] for this purpose.

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, ericthai said:

Is your home country or country that you have a passport from apart of ASEAN?  If so you can 

get an ASEAN member card and get 90 entry for business.  I know a friend of mine from OZ

had one a few years ago. He would do boarder runs show his ASEAN card and get 90 days. 

ASEAN has no such program. You seem to be confusing APEC with ASEAN. There is a APEC business travel card that allows 90 day entries.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APEC_Business_Travel_Card

[the guest]

Many posts here are misleading. 

 

Doing work of any kind requires a work permit, there are no exceptions.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

Many posts here are misleading. 

 

Doing work of any kind requires a work permit, there are no exceptions.

Including yours.

 

"Doing work" requires permission. Only employees require that permission in the form of a work permit. There are exceptions.

[seancbk]

3 hours ago, the guest said:

Many posts here are misleading. 

 

Doing work of any kind requires a work permit, there are no exceptions.

 

There are exceptions.  Unless you don't think meetings constitute 'work', or attending trade shows (for work) doesn't constitute 'work'.

Fact is you can come to Thailand to attend a trade show (and attend meetings at said show) even on a tourist visa.

If you you need to be here longer (upto 90 days at a time) you can get a Non B visa to come here for meetings, consulting, factory visits etc.    All of which are considered work but non of which require the person visiting for 90 days on a non B to also apply for a work permit.
 

 

[SEEDGER]

Anything I could tell you has  probably changed. I'm an American came in on Non Imm B in years 2013 through 2015 Never had a problem. One border run they asked about work permit. I told them I do not work in Thailand.  But according to their law at the time if I discussed business I needed a B visa.  And that was the case.