Electrical issues at our house

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

My place in Seoul in the mid '90s was like that, light bulbs too were mixed voltages, I just bought 220V lamps, the ones in the 110V holders lasted forever

we did that in Florida partially using bulbs from Germany which provided a warmer light.

[Elkski]

I know it's the current (amperage) that kills you but 220 v with 15 a breakers seems more deadly than 110 v.    

[bankruatsteve]

30 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I know it's the current (amperage) that kills you but 220 v with 15 a breakers seems more deadly than 110 v.    

Not sure where you are going with this?  Did you know that a 15a breaker on 220v would need a 30a breaker on 110v for the same load?  Like an oven?

[Naam]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

3 hours ago, Elkski said:

I know it's the current (amperage) that kills you but 220 v with 15 a breakers seems more deadly than 110 v.    

Not sure where you are going with this?  Did you know that a 15a breaker on 220v would need a 30a breaker on 110v for the same load?  Like an oven?

we are not arriving anywhere discussing breaker size in context with the danger of electricity.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

To the OP, I note only one light is illuminated on your 3 phases. This could mean the bulbs are popped, or you are only wired to one phase. It's common to find a house in Thailand with a three phase board somewhere downstream with the three phases bridged to just one incoming phase. You can safely twiddle the voltmeter knob to see if any voltage registers on the other phases. The house I'm working on right now is just such an example. I've uploaded a little video I took in the roof of this 25 year old building. Of note is the way the electrician (cough) wired the neutral to the roof structure, probably in some attempt to create an ufer ground. Completely ineffective of course and it was causing a newly fitted RCBO to trip endlessly. Lord only knows what these people are thinking of. The only way forward in situations like this is to completely abandon the electricals and start over. It's not what people want to hear, but it is what it is, if I take on a project it's my way or no way. In my experience, the vast majority of Thai houses are in this condition.

 

Never underestimate the capacity of Thai electricians to create a hazardous situation:

 

 

[Elkski]

There are only 15 & 20 amp breakers used on 110 v systems in most modern USA houses.  Thats 1650 or 2200 watts.  The 2 phase breakers are 30 and 40 amp.  It's nice those are usually boxes behind the equipment and not accessible by just anyone.   

How about if you let me choose which wires you want to hold.  Those on 15 a breakers of 220v 3300 watts?  Or 220 v 20 a 4400 watts.   Or a 20 a 110 v 2200 watts.    I get to choose for you and turn on the switch.  I know what is safest  and what I would choose and plenty of power for everything in a modern house except an electric stove, dryer,   hot tub.  I rather have 40-50% more breakers and circuits with 1650 watts than have 3300 watts to trip a breaker.  

Tell me one home electric that needs more than 2200 watts?

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

Tell me one home electric that needs more than 2200 watts?

Our 3000 Watt kettle for starters

 

Please remember we are not in Utah so the 110V/220V system does not apply, we are 220V only with one pole grounded (neutral).

 

[Naam]

Quote

Elkski said:

Tell me one home electric that needs more than 2200 watts?

-each of our 7 water heaters,

-2 of our 19 aircons.

-our washer

-our dryer

[Elkski]

I know it's 220 in Thailand but you disputed my claim about safety with a 110 v 20 compared to 220 v 20 a.  

All those electrics like ac and shower heater are wired up or not accessible by kids or just anyone. If they need more wattage fine.  But stupid to use 220 in the whole house.   That's my opinion.   I'm not changing it.  Thailand isn't changing for me.   By electrics I mean tv , stereo, laptop, etc.   

Your reference to where I currently reside is telling about your character.  

[bankruatsteve]

Oooh kay.

[Crossy]

11 hours ago, Elkski said:

That's my opinion.

To which you are of course entitled.

 

 

 

[Naam]

5 hours ago, Elkski said:

 But stupid to use 220 in the whole house.   That's my opinion.   I'm not changing it.

what's that stuff you ingest that induces utmost ridiculous statements and clearly proves that you possess a wealth of no idea pertaining to electrical basics?

[tonray]

I keep a large fan running all the time and my brain is so accustomed to the frequency of the noise so when we get these voltage drops even small changes in speed are noticed right away.

[Elkski]

10 hours ago, Naam said:

what's that stuff you ingest that induces utmost ridiculous statements and clearly proves that you possess a wealth of no idea pertaining to electrical basics?

So you are willing to let me choose the voltage of the wires you will hold when I flip the 20 amp breaker on?

220 or 110 V.    You care you back up your statement with some real electrical theory rather then BS?

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

So you are willing to let me choose the voltage of the wires you will hold when I flip the 20 amp breaker on?

220 or 110 V.    You care you back up your statement with some real electrical theory rather then BS?

Do you think you will be any less dead at 110V as opposed to 220V?

 

The rating of the breaker, 20A, 10A or even 1A will make no odds whatever with the lethal current being generally accepted as being around 30mA (which is why we have RCDs / GFCIs operating at <30mA).

 

[Crossy]

At this point I'm going to call a halt to this "discussion".

 

Thailand (which is the subject of this forum) is 3-phase, 4-wire, 220V L-N, 50Hz. Please don't muddy the waters with discussion as to which system is better / safer both systems have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

As was noted in the "Pool Table Rules" at a favourite watering hole in Seoul, Korea many years ago "We don't care what you do where you come from, this is what you do where you are".

 

[Naam]

5 hours ago, Elkski said:

So you are willing to let me choose the voltage of the wires you will hold when I flip the 20 amp breaker on?

220 or 110 V.    You care you back up your statement with some real electrical theory rather then BS?

sorry, i don't discuss the brushstroke of an old master's painting or a beatiful sunrise with a blind man.

[shaemus]

 

12 hours ago, Naam said:

 

17 hours ago, Elkski said:

So you are willing to let me choose the voltage of the wires you will hold when I flip the 20 amp breaker on?

220 or 110 V.    You care you back up your statement with some real electrical theory rather then BS?

sorry, i don't discuss the brushstroke of an old master's painting or a beatiful sunrise with a blind man.

 

Get a grip. you are both talking about power. Mr Crossy IS correct. This thread is about Thailand. If you want to make your own discussion / thread about the voltage differences then do so, but make sure you do your research. Talk Facts about electricity not Fiction. The hangover come from the ac / dc battle that was had many years ago.

[Elkski]

 the good thing is I know science and electrical Theory are on my side so anyone with intelligence reading this knows who the hood is. 

 

There are valid reasons why 220 volts may be more efficient

[VocalNeal]

Brazil runs on 127v  60hz. Thought I'd muddy more water.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

I'm closing this thread as being off topic.

 

Thread closed!

[Elkski]

It's muddy for some of us.   It's science and fact.   

 

One other benefit of having 110 v and 220 v for special appliances with special plugs  is that people give the 220 more respect and call an electrician but may choose to diy on some 110 v work.   

The father and son found electrocuted. Dad  grasping the wrench and son grasping the gate.   I just wonder if that was 110 v.   I seem to recall it was only  pool pumps.   Of course my spa enclosure is 220 but each pump is on 110 legs.  

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Could an Admin please check my mod powers, they don't seem to be working.

[Naam]

23 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Brazil runs on 127v  60hz. Thought I'd muddy more water.

that depends on state and area. factories use both 127 and 220/380V. for our home in Itaipava (100km north of Rio) we were asked what supply we preferred.

[Andrew Dwyer]

20 minutes ago, Naam said:

that depends on state and area. factories use both 127 and 220/380V. for our home in Itaipava (100km north of Rio) we were asked what supply we preferred.

Very common in Brazil for a residence to be 110 ( 127 ) but have a 220 supply also for certain appliances.

In my house i had a 220 socket in the garage, very handy for welding etc, and a 220 socket in the laundry room and kitchen for up market washing machines or electric ovens etc( neither of which i had ).

[Crossy]

I was going to close this, but if it stays (reasonably) civil it can stay, for now.

 

[shaemus]

On 9/19/2017 at 10:44 PM, Elkski said:

the good thing is I know science and electrical Theory are on my side so anyone with intelligence reading this knows who the hood is. 

 

There are valid reasons why 220 volts may be more efficient

Edited Tuesday at 10:47 PM by Elkski

Care to elaborate on your theory?

[maxpower]

Poor Elkski. He mixed up his watts amps and breakers and got roasted trying to point out the safety benefits of lower potential.

Now the poor guys getting called out for mentioning voltage efficiency.

Back in the day, the masters of this magic energy spent much time pondering over voltage, safety and efficiency. Europe was 120V and later switched to 220 then the US considered going 220 but decided against it because too many appliances were already 110. At the time, many documents considered safety and efficiency when debating final potential. Efficiency was of course the deciding factor.

[Elkski]

Called out for mentioning about transmission efficiency

 

The human body has  a given resistance.   More potential (voltage) means quicker fried and dried  skin and less resistance.  Thus more amps.   Sure it only takes mvolts to mess up your heart beat.    Google all you like the consensus is that 110 is safer than 220.   For several reasons. I really won't be posting on electrical  issues much as we have so many electrical "pros".    With such high opinions of their brillance and want to protect their trade jobs.  

[shaemus]

7 hours ago, Elkski said:

Called out for mentioning about transmission efficiency

 

The human body has  a given resistance.   More potential (voltage) means quicker fried and dried  skin and less resistance.  Thus more amps.   Sure it only takes mvolts to mess up your heart beat.    Google all you like the consensus is that 110 is safer than 220.   For several reasons. I really won't be posting on electrical  issues much as we have so many electrical "pros".    With such high opinions of their brillance and want to protect their trade jobs.  

Its milliamps or mA that cause the problems,  You can read about ventricular fribillation here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock .

 

As for "trade jobs" i already have one and have done for a few decades. And also just before you go i don't think anyone cares about your 110V systems or your wire ampacity.

 

Sad to see you go and  one last thing,you spelt Brilliance incorrectly.