Motorcyclists fined 1,000 baht for using tunnel

[NightRider70]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Enjoy your time at the front. Here's another thing that motorbikes are leading the rest of us road users on.

 

 

How many of the bike riders were killed by cars and trucks? If a pedestrian is killed by a car on a side walk, does that prove shoes are dangerous? 

 

 

[bert bloggs]

20 hours ago, ezzra said:

I be happy to pay 100,000 baht if someone from the traffic department

will explain to us motorcycle riders the rational and reasoning behind

this silly laws that prohibited motorcycles form using tunnels and

overpasses, i'm sure that they all going to look at each other with 

lamb eyes and mumble something about it being an old law that

is there for 50 years already and no one really know whey....

 

I would give them 100.000 baht if they banned motorcycles completely from the roads , 

[garbolino]

18 hours ago, johng said:

A feeble excuse, if there was (there isnt) a dedicated lane for motorcycles (presumably they mean the far left lane) on normal roads then why arent pickup trucks and

speeding minivans fined for using it ?

and even worse using it as a high speed "undertaking" lane.

 

undertaking is suppose to be illegal..........but who takes any notice of this law ???

[Pilotman]

19 hours ago, LazySlipper said:

 

After being fined once, a copper told me that we weren't allowed to be in a right lane if we were more than 30 meters away from a U-Turn. He told me I had to drive in the left lane... I pointed out cars were parked there... he then said I had to be careful and drive on the white line... WTH..

 

I wish there were a translated DMV handbook somewhere. 

 

 

Not sure what point you are trying to make here.  His advice in terms of the environment you are riding in makes sense. 

[Sig]

12 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Enjoy your time at the front. Here's another thing that motorbikes are leading the rest of us road users on.

 

The chart you kindly provided is nothing new, and it also has nothing to do with the topic at hand. So, I'm not sure why you quoted me with your post.... I never made any mention of the percentage of deaths on the roads at all.... I hope you aren't attempting to correlate this statistic with the topic of tunnels and bridges. That would be a sad mistake. But it would explain why people agree with stupid laws like this if that's how they read statistics.
The top reasons for accidents have nothing to do with tunnels or bridges. Accidents occur mostly at intersections or places where driveways/entrances/exits intersect with the roadway, which is exactly where motorcyclists get routed to in order to go around bridges and tunnels. It is complete nonsense.
The idea of intersecting locations being common accident zones also explains why parking lots and residential neighborhoods are also on the top of the list of where accidents happen. Nowhere will you find tunnels and bridges being remotely high on the list of where accidents happen, whether on motorcycles or in cars or on a f'n skateboard! The law is absolute and total idiocy. Why anybody with an ounce of common sense can't see that is beyond me.....

Edited September 9, 2017 by Sig
Edited out something I understood differently immdiately after posting

[NanLaew]

10 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Motorbike riders are well aware of how dangerous it is.

But waving at some HI-So in his ฿10m "Porch" as I go past is fun.

We have to deal with the inconsiderate car drivers every day.

Don't ask, I have had fast cars too...

 

And there it is. The smugness, superiority and smarter-than-the-thou attitude of someone on 2-wheels when confronted with the smugness, superiority smarter-than-the-thou attitude of someone in 4 (or more) wheels.

 

Winning!

 

If the ban is 100% enforced think of the smugness, superiority and smarter-than-the-thou feelings you will be rewarded with when, on seeing the underpass closed due to a wreck, you know that there wasn't any clever dick 2-wheelers involved, just those dumb hi-so's in their "Porch".

 

PS. Wave all you want. The 'HI-So in his ฿10m "Porch"' has tinted windows. Better to concentrate on what's ahead, no?

 

6 hours ago, NightRider70 said:

 

How many of the bike riders were killed by cars and trucks? If a pedestrian is killed by a car on a side walk, does that prove shoes are dangerous? 

 

 

I think if YOU take the time to research these shocking statistics, you will find that the average 2-wheeler tends to take him/herself out without the need for 4 (or more) wheel interaction. Admittedly most are drunk or otherwise under the influence but I would wager that 80% of them were riding at speeds that reduced their ability to control the bike. Local car, van and truck drivers are cursed with a total lack of spatial awareness and it would be folly to suggest that the motorbike driver is not similarly blighted.

 

Here's my for instance experience: just after 8 AM and coming out of the narrow south-bound Sukhumvit lanes during the underpass construction, I am in the second (outermost) of the 2 lanes with merging traffic in innermost of the 2 lanes available. I am watching the horde of motorbikes riding MY bumper and just itching to twist the wrist and shoot right into the rapidly approaching open, third lane... and get to the red lights first. A dog on the sidewalk on my left, looking across and I think, 'Please don't...' but it does, off like a bottle rocket and I steer into the nearside lane while braking and the first motorbike rental guy does a double jink to cut inside the others veering right and "Bam!" nails the dog in the middle lane. He flies past my drivers side and rolls like a broken rag doll down the road,coming to a rest about 70 m ahead, in the middle of traffic. Meanwhile his bike catapults after the broken dog into and onto the median narrowly missing taking down some more 2-wheelers. When I got to the red light, I wasn't feeling in the least bit smug or superior but I was shaking like a leaf. The smarter-than-the-thou kicked in after I got home.

 

Think of the bike ban in the Pattaya underpass as doing y'all a big favour and prolonging your life. There's limited room for any emergency moves let alone the simple duck and weave to get to the front.

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, Sig said:

The chart you kindly provided is nothing new, and it also has nothing to do with the topic at hand. So, I'm not sure why you quoted me with your post.... I never made any mention of the percentage of deaths on the roads at all.... I hope you aren't attempting to correlate this statistic with the topic of tunnels and bridges. That would be a sad mistake. But it would explain why people agree with stupid laws like this if that's how they read statistics.
The top reasons for accidents have nothing to do with tunnels or bridges. Accidents occur mostly at intersections or places where driveways/entrances/exits intersect with the roadway, which is exactly where motorcyclists get routed to in order to go around bridges and tunnels. It is complete nonsense.
The idea of intersecting locations being common accident zones also explains why parking lots and residential neighborhoods are also on the top of the list of where accidents happen. Nowhere will you find tunnels and bridges being remotely high on the list of where accidents happen, whether on motorcycles or in cars or on a f'n skateboard! The law is absolute and total idiocy. Why anybody with an ounce of common sense can't see that is beyond me.....

This morning's toys out of the pram post brought to you by...

 

Nothing to do with the topic at hand? Really? The fact that motorbike riders are overwhelmingly more likely to be killed in all sorts of scenarios doesn't suggest that they are even more likely to become road kill where they cannot do the fast lane change, undertake, overtake and habitually 'shoot the ever diminishing gap" between slower and larger vehicles?

 

Most accidents OF ALL SORTS happen between 4 PM and 8 PM during the daily "end of work, grab dinner and a few beers and get home before dark first" ritual. Doesn't happen because motorbikes are forced to use dangerous intersections instead of the low-maneuverability and less margin for error of underpasses and overpasses.

 

The underpass is underwhelming BTW. Apart from the 1000 baht zinger, you won't be missing much else by avoiding it.

[Sig]

10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

This morning's toys out of the pram post brought to you by...

 

Nothing to do with the topic at hand? Really? The fact that motorbike riders are overwhelmingly more likely to be killed in all sorts of scenarios doesn't suggest that they are even more likely to become road kill where they cannot do the fast lane change, undertake, overtake and habitually 'shoot the ever diminishing gap" between slower and larger vehicles?

 

Most accidents OF ALL SORTS happen between 4 PM and 8 PM during the daily "end of work, grab dinner and a few beers and get home before dark first" ritual. Doesn't happen because motorbikes are forced to use dangerous intersections instead of the low-maneuverability and less margin for error of underpasses and overpasses.

 

The underpass is underwhelming BTW. Apart from the 1000 baht zinger, you won't be missing much else by avoiding it.

I have no idea whatsoever what, "This morning's toys out of the pram post brought to you by..." is supposed to mean....
Yes, correct, nothing directly to do with it. I guess you could say that the orientation of the tunnel to cardinal points could be related if you want. But if bringing up illegal driving habits of some idiot motorcycle drivers in relation to whether or not one is more likely to die in a tunnel is relevant, and therefore motorcycles banned from them, then by that logic motorcycles should be banned from everywhere.
But whether more accidents happen between 4 and 8 p.m. is again irrelevant to the location of accidents.
In relation to this topic having to do with the location, not time of day, of tunnels (and secondarily bridges, just because they create the same nonsensical law for them), it really isn't difficult.
FAR fewer accidents happen in tunnels.
FAR more accidents happen at intersections.
Banning motorcycles from taking a safer route and forcing them to a more dangerous route is unreasonable, unless of course you want to create a nice choke point for easy revenue collection, knowing that it is unlikely that there will be many hi-so types riding bikes... nice soft targets to pad the pockets.

I don't know anything about the specific tunnel mentioned in the article. If it doesn't force a motorcycle driver to pass through an intersection, that would be unusual. I'm not sure what you meant about not much being missed by avoiding it.... Normally one would like to take the tunnel to avoid an intersection, which not only often takes longer, but also happens to be where more accidents happen. Tunnels are very controlled environments and accidents there are in comparison very rare. Just think back to how many accidents you've ever seen in a tunnel in comparison to how many you've seen in areas with intersecting traffic. You don't even need hard statistics to figure it out. It's pretty obvious... At least, I thought it was. If it isn't to you, then you can rely more on the statistics, which will also show the same idea. Or maybe take a motorcycle out for a ride and you will see how much safer it is driving in a tunnel than negotiating intersections, with motorcycles maneuvering every which way, dogs, carts, pedestrians, red light runners, right of way ignorers, etc, etc... Maybe it isn't as obvious from inside your safer environs of the car? From on a bike, it is as clear as day.
 

[johng]

I steer into the nearside lane while braking and the first motorbike rental guy does a double jink to cut inside the others veering right and "Bam!" nails the dog in the middle lane.

If you had just run over the dog with your "monster truck" the accident wouldn't have happened [emoji39]

[Justgrazing]

No Motorcycles in the Tunnel violators beware .. 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, johng said:

If you had just run over the dog with your "monster truck" the accident wouldn't have happened
 

Been there, done that too... and the silly bugger following me got rear-ended when he braked hard to avoid the bits of dog.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Sig said:

I have no idea whatsoever what, "This morning's toys out of the pram post brought to you by..." is supposed to mean....
Yes, correct, nothing directly to do with it. I guess you could say that the orientation of the tunnel to cardinal points could be related if you want. But if bringing up illegal driving habits of some idiot motorcycle drivers in relation to whether or not one is more likely to die in a tunnel is relevant, and therefore motorcycles banned from them, then by that logic motorcycles should be banned from everywhere.
But whether more accidents happen between 4 and 8 p.m. is again irrelevant to the location of accidents.
In relation to this topic having to do with the location, not time of day, of tunnels (and secondarily bridges, just because they create the same nonsensical law for them), it really isn't difficult.
FAR fewer accidents happen in tunnels.
FAR more accidents happen at intersections.
Banning motorcycles from taking a safer route and forcing them to a more dangerous route is unreasonable, unless of course you want to create a nice choke point for easy revenue collection, knowing that it is unlikely that there will be many hi-so types riding bikes... nice soft targets to pad the pockets.

I don't know anything about the specific tunnel mentioned in the article. If it doesn't force a motorcycle driver to pass through an intersection, that would be unusual. I'm not sure what you meant about not much being missed by avoiding it.... Normally one would like to take the tunnel to avoid an intersection, which not only often takes longer, but also happens to be where more accidents happen. Tunnels are very controlled environments and accidents there are in comparison very rare. Just think back to how many accidents you've ever seen in a tunnel in comparison to how many you've seen in areas with intersecting traffic. You don't even need hard statistics to figure it out. It's pretty obvious... At least, I thought it was. If it isn't to you, then you can rely more on the statistics, which will also show the same idea. Or maybe take a motorcycle out for a ride and you will see how much safer it is driving in a tunnel than negotiating intersections, with motorcycles maneuvering every which way, dogs, carts, pedestrians, red light runners, right of way ignorers, etc, etc... Maybe it isn't as obvious from inside your safer environs of the car? From on a bike, it is as clear as day.
 

OK, we get it. You, the overwhelming minority of savvy and experienced foreign guys with the big bikes, have excellent spatial awareness gifted by dint of your superior non-Thai genes. You are a superior road user, driving defensively and not aggressively and constantly alert to red-light runners and green light jumpers, giving way accordingly... and you never, ever undertake. It's this same pomposity that grips the similarly minuscule amount of foreign car, vans and truck drivers in LOS as they barge their way around and between the gormless and perpetually distracted local car, van, bus and truck drivers.

 

The reason why there's relatively few reports of road tunnel accidents involving motorbikes is probably because they are already banned from them. You see the way that the huge, overwhelming majority of local motorbike riders behave... which explains why the huge, overwhelming majority of road accident deaths are 2-wheelers. The intersections that you are now forced to use over the underpass are regulated by new traffic lights, better than they were before the underpass existed so what's the increased risk you're going on about?

 

At least you never, EVER wave derisively at Porches. Well done.

[Asiantravel]

On ‎8‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 0:25 PM, ezzra said:

I be happy to pay 100,000 baht if someone from the traffic department

will explain to us motorcycle riders the rational and reasoning behind

this silly laws that prohibited motorcycles form using tunnels and

overpasses, i'm sure that they all going to look at each other with 

lamb eyes and mumble something about it being an old law that

is there for 50 years already and no one really know whey....

 

and you don't think there are other equally silly laws in Thailand apart  from this one?

[overherebc]

On 08/09/2017 at 3:24 PM, meinphuket said:

Motorcyclists are a pain at the best of times on roads, imagine the carnage underground with nowhere to escape to. Keep bikes out of tunnels, and off motorways please.

Standard answer from the anti-biker brigade. Get them off the road because we get annoyed in traffic jams as they can get through small spaces and we can't. I paid 750,000 or 4,000,000 for my car and have to sit and watch 'cheap' motorbikes manage to carry on moving. 

It's not the bikes, it's the idiots riding them that are the problem.

Ask anyone in the UK or USA where a bike should be positioned on the road and almost all will say on the left of the lane. Totally wrong answer. It should be in the centre of the lane, ( as we call it, right down the diesel line ) paid road tax, paid insurance same as a car driver so perfectly entitled to be on the road.

Re here, I just don't understand the thinking behind the stay left, don't use the under/over pass..

[LammyTS1]

I have a few bikes here. Had 2 cars back home but here, no thanks. Don't need one.

Why would anyone need a car here when it's hot all year round & roads are congested.

Pattaya being a tourist city, needs to pedestrianise some of the tourist spots & other areas should be motorcycle access only.
Far too many cars & trucks bringing chaos to the area when they're simply not needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[ALFREDO]

2 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

Look, I'm very sorry but if you can't afford a car stay off the roads,

I drive a car too - but I drive BIG BIKES since 1977 and I still like to do it - I sure not harass you,

so soon I pass you 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

In the UK i think you can't go on a motorway unless 125cc or above, so some logic to them restricting some bikes

[ALFREDO]

46 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

In the UK i think you can't go on a motorway unless 125cc or above, so some logic to them restricting some bikes

Here in Thailand - all Motorbikes, even very BIG BIKES are not allowed on the Special Highways and Tollways 

we not have that in EU  

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

15 hours ago, NanLaew said:

And there it is. The smugness, superiority and smarter-than-the-thou attitude of someone on 2-wheels when confronted with the smugness, superiority smarter-than-the-thou attitude of someone in 4 (or more) wheels.

 

Winning!

 

If the ban is 100% enforced think of the smugness, superiority and smarter-than-the-thou feelings you will be rewarded with when, on seeing the underpass closed due to a wreck, you know that there wasn't any clever dick 2-wheelers involved, just those dumb hi-so's in their "Porch".

 

PS. Wave all you want. The 'HI-So in his ฿10m "Porch"' has tinted windows. Better to concentrate on what's ahead, no?

 

I think if YOU take the time to research these shocking statistics, you will find that the average 2-wheeler tends to take him/herself out without the need for 4 (or more) wheel interaction. Admittedly most are drunk or otherwise under the influence but I would wager that 80% of them were riding at speeds that reduced their ability to control the bike. Local car, van and truck drivers are cursed with a total lack of spatial awareness and it would be folly to suggest that the motorbike driver is not similarly blighted.

 

Here's my for instance experience: just after 8 AM and coming out of the narrow south-bound Sukhumvit lanes during the underpass construction, I am in the second (outermost) of the 2 lanes with merging traffic in innermost of the 2 lanes available. I am watching the horde of motorbikes riding MY bumper and just itching to twist the wrist and shoot right into the rapidly approaching open, third lane... and get to the red lights first. A dog on the sidewalk on my left, looking across and I think, 'Please don't...' but it does, off like a bottle rocket and I steer into the nearside lane while braking and the first motorbike rental guy does a double jink to cut inside the others veering right and "Bam!" nails the dog in the middle lane. He flies past my drivers side and rolls like a broken rag doll down the road,coming to a rest about 70 m ahead, in the middle of traffic. Meanwhile his bike catapults after the broken dog into and onto the median narrowly missing taking down some more 2-wheelers. When I got to the red light, I wasn't feeling in the least bit smug or superior but I was shaking like a leaf. The smarter-than-the-thou kicked in after I got home.

 

Think of the bike ban in the Pattaya underpass as doing y'all a big favour and prolonging your life. There's limited room for any emergency moves let alone the simple duck and weave to get to the front.

Ah! Sorry, you are only considering Thai bike riders and 4-6-8-10-12-etc wheel vehicle drivers.

Now I understand.

The "Think Bike" campaign was done for a reason in the UK.

Those who have never ridden a bike behind the wheel of a car don't look, and do cause many accidents.

The "superiority syndrome" shown by many car only drivers is just a case of your own frustration...

I look at the road, the wave is behind my back as I disappear into the distance...

PS. I have no time for push bikes, either on crowded urban streets or narrow country roads.

 

 

[Damrongsak]

10 hours ago, NanLaew said:

... have excellent spatial awareness gifted by dint of your superior non-Thai genes. ...

The only bike wreck I had in Thailand, I wasn't wearing superior genes.  But I did have on my Superman costume.  Due to excellent spatial awareness, I aimed and hit that Honda 50 broadside between the driver's and passenger's legs.  I flew over the handlebars and landed on the downslope of a nearby ditch. 

[Rimmer]

An off topic troll post also a personal attack and reply have all been removed.

[Pdaz]

12 hours ago, overherebc said:

Standard answer from the anti-biker brigade. Get them off the road because we get annoyed in traffic jams as they can get through small spaces and we can't. I paid 750,000 or 4,000,000 for my car and have to sit and watch 'cheap' motorbikes manage to carry on moving. 

It's not the bikes, it's the idiots riding them that are the problem.

Ask anyone in the UK or USA where a bike should be positioned on the road and almost all will say on the left of the lane. Totally wrong answer. It should be in the centre of the lane, ( as we call it, right down the diesel line ) paid road tax, paid insurance same as a car driver so perfectly entitled to be on the road.

Re here, I just don't understand the thinking behind the stay left, don't use the under/over pass..

Actually current thinking is a bike should be slightly off the center of the lane. So it can avoid the slippery section of oil/coolant drips etc. This dominant position is the new norm in the West. But mostly in Asia they are still following the motorcycles keep left rule that used to be the norm in the West.

 

As a biker that also drives a car. I have no favoritism for either. The common enemy on Thai roads is lack of proper training and lack of proper law enforcement for both bikers and car drivers.  

[Pilotman]

12 hours ago, overherebc said:

Standard answer from the anti-biker brigade. Get them off the road because we get annoyed in traffic jams as they can get through small spaces and we can't. I paid 750,000 or 4,000,000 for my car and have to sit and watch 'cheap' motorbikes manage to carry on moving. 

It's not the bikes, it's the idiots riding them that are the problem.

Ask anyone in the UK or USA where a bike should be positioned on the road and almost all will say on the left of the lane. Totally wrong answer. It should be in the centre of the lane, ( as we call it, right down the diesel line ) paid road tax, paid insurance same as a car driver so perfectly entitled to be on the road.

Re here, I just don't understand the thinking behind the stay left, don't use the under/over pass..

quite right.  the best advice given to me many years ago when I started biking was to treat myself as a small car; centre of the lane, out of the gutter, don't undertake anyone or anything, dont sit in the blind spot of a driver in front. . Trouble is, such rules just don't apply here, and it catches out many car driving farangs,  who rent but don't understand the environment.  

[overherebc]

Around my way the time I really try to avoid driving is 4 to 6pm.

The roads are full of kids on the way home 3 to 5 on a bike and mum's buying local food in the two or three food stall areas.

Very rare to see a helmet or a pair of gloves even ( it's automatic to put your hands on the road if you come off ).

None of them even think about about road rules or what side of the road they should be on, why do they paint those funny white lines on the road etc????.

At least 5 times a week I hear the body snatchers pass by. I hate to think of the injury, or worse, figures in this area.

[Pilotman]

Just now, overherebc said:

Around my way the time I really try to avoid driving is 4 to 6pm.

The roads are full of kids on the way home 3 to 5 on a bike and mum's buying local food in the two or three food stall areas.

Very rare to see a helmet or a pair of gloves even ( it's automatic to put your hands on the road if you come off ).

None of them even think about about road rules or what side of the road they should be on, why do they paint those funny white lines on the road etc????.

At least 5 times a week I hear the body snatchers pass by. I hate to think of the injury, or worse, figures in this area.

that is a scary time, I too avoid it if I can

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

that is a scary time, I too avoid it if I can

I mentioned in an earlier post about the maximum death rate being between 4 PM and 8 PM. I didn't make it up as it was a well-publicized finding from their last '7 days of death' analysis.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been reported and removed.

 

[kaorop]

21 minutes ago, overherebc said:

At least 5 times a week I hear the body snatchers pass by. I hate to think of the injury, or worse, figures in this area.

At least 5 times a day here, and probably more like 10 but I dont always hear them. (Busy road)

[Expattaff1308]

On 08/09/2017 at 0:27 PM, sn1per said:

haha, that didn't take long, another good earner for the bib.... happy daze

 

What do you expect when motorists dont follow the rules...." He said numerous signs clearly point out what vehicles are and aren’t allowed through the underpass, but drivers are simply ignoring them."

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

I mentioned in an earlier post about the maximum death rate being between 4 PM and 8 PM. I didn't make it up as it was a well-publicized finding from their last '7 days of death' analysis.

I was passing the Austrian/ Thai College in Pattaya last week at going  home time.  It was like a swarm of locusts on bikes pouring out onto the road, and yet the pick ups were still passing at warp factor 10 in the outside lane .  I suppose they consider themselves safe from hitting anyone there.  Te Police were in attendance but doing nothing to slow down the traffic. Needless to day, I crawled by.