Regarding 1 year ban for overstaying

[micky pal]

Hi , I want to discuss my case related to Thai immigration . Well last year I was in thailand , bangkok to visit my gf and unfortunately I overstayed my visa for more than ninety days for which I , had to pay a fine of Thai baht 20,000 while departing back to India , New Delhi at the suvarnabhum International Airport . After paying the fine , I was also banned  for a period of 1 year ( as per the policy w.e.f 20th of march 2016 ) . My day of departure was 28th may , 2016 . 

So as per the policy the ban for a period of 1year is from the date of departure . So in regards to the above regulation the period of ban was from 28th of may 2016 until 28th of may 2017 . So  on 29th of may 2017 I entered back to thailand and I was questioned by the immigration official and then was granted a stay for 60 days ( from 29 th may 2017 until 27th July 2017 ) . I stayed there for a two- three weeks and returned back to india on the 27th of June 2017 . Then I stayed in india for couple of months and on 16 th of September I was booked on Thai airways ( business class ) from Kolkatta to Bangkok but as I was check in at the airlines counter , I was offloaded and was told that I had some issue with immigration due to which the system isn't able to issue me the boarding pass ... I was very surprised that this time I didn't overstayed my visa then how come I could face such hurdles ?? 

[tonray]

The airline must have a default policy of not boarding anyone listed as blacklisted in their system. But their system may have a time lag and not get timely updates from Thai Immigration. 

[ubonjoe]

Not sure why you had a problem unless they saw your old overstay and banning stamp. Thai Airways can be very strict.

Did you have a tourist visa for entry this time? Or were you planning to get a 15 day visa on arrival? If a visa on arrival did you have ticket out of the country within 15 days?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, tonray said:

The airline must have a default policy of not boarding anyone listed as blacklisted in their system. But their system may have a time lag and not get timely updates from Thai Immigration. 

As far as I know no airline maintains a database with immigration info kept in it. They do submit a passenger list to immigration for their review is all they can do.

[micky pal]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure why you had a problem unless they saw your old overstay and banning stamp. Thai Airways can be very strict.

Did you have a tourist visa for entry this time? Or were you planning to get a 15 day visa on arrival? If a visa on arrival did you have ticket out of the country within 15 days?

Thanks for your reply buddy . The 1 year banning stamp , was on my old passport , who's pages finished so the Indian government issued me a new passport and the previous passport was cancelled. But anyhow the new passport do has the old passport number mentioned aswell . But if that was the case then why wasn't I refused boarding when I had travelled in the month of may  without any hassles . Well I was , travelling on a three months tourist visa as issued from the royal Thai consulate . I also had return tickets as my trip was just for 10 days , and I had THB200,000 in cash too . I don't understand the policy , the ban it was mentioned on my previous passport was 1 year and I too was informed by the Thai immigration bureau at the airport that for one year cannot come as far the new policy wef from the 20th march 2016 . But now it's more than one year and I already performed my last visit in the month of may and came back on timely basis then why I'm facing this kind of issue . I don't know what "1" year means for the Thai government ? By law I already faced a penalty of thai baht 20,000 and 1 year ban . 

[fertilizer]

Did you fly Thai Airways when you entered Thailand on May 29th.?

[realenglish1]

I would just switch airlines and go with someone else Its really that simple

 

[darrendsd]

11 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

I would just switch airlines and go with someone else Its really that simple

 

If nobody knows the real reason he was refused boarding how can it be "that simple"?

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

If nobody knows the real reason he was refused boarding how can it be "that simple"?

It seems somewhat apparent it was a problem related to immigration putting up a red flag when Thai sent the passenger list to them.

Perhaps another airline would of questioned it to confirm there was a problem.

I do have a suggestion to the OP  to next time he attempts to travel he have his old passport with him to prove the one year ban is finished.

[12DrinkMore]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They do submit a passenger list to immigration for their review is all they can do.

 

Anybody know when this happens?

 

Immediately after booking, or just before check-in, or some random day between the two?

[jossthaifarang]

I think if you had a 3 month visa 1st time, but wanted on arrival the 2nd time, that may have been the issue.

 

The fact you have a visa in your passport, means Thai Immigration have approved you to enter the kingdom, therefore the airline would have no choice but to let you on the flight.

[darrendsd]

45 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It seems somewhat apparent it was a problem related to immigration putting up a red flag when Thai sent the passenger list to them.

Perhaps another airline would of questioned it to confirm there was a problem.

I do have a suggestion to the OP  to next time he attempts to travel he have his old passport with him to prove the one year ban is finished.

So exactly my point, we don't know if it's a problem with the Airline or a problem that he has a new Passport or a problem with Immigration putting up a red flag on the passenger list, who is to say that red flag will not appear again if he tries another Airline?

 

He may be better off trying to get a official letter from Thai Immigration confirming that his ban has finished which he can then show when checking in/boarding

[darrendsd]

1 minute ago, jossthaifarang said:

I think if you had a 3 month visa 1st time, but wanted on arrival the 2nd time, that may have been the issue.

 

The fact you have a visa in your passport, means Thai Immigration have approved you to enter the kingdom, therefore the airline would have no choice but to let you on the flight.

Wrong,  a visa is not approved by Immigration and does not guarantee entry into the country

[realenglish1]

1 hour ago, darrendsd said:

If nobody knows the real reason he was refused boarding how can it be "that simple"?

The only way to find out is try RIGHT

[darrendsd]

9 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

The only way to find out is try RIGHT

Has tried and been refused once, how many times do you suggest he tries?

 

Trying to find out the real cause of the problem is the solution, not hoping for the best that he can board next time on a different Airline

[realenglish1]

1 hour ago, darrendsd said:

Has tried and been refused once, how many times do you suggest he tries?

 

Trying to find out the real cause of the problem is the solution, not hoping for the best that he can board next time on a different Airline

You give up too easily Just one airline Give it a try on another you may find a different result You seem to be the type that just accepts NO once regardless of the situation 

[darrendsd]

54 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

You give up too easily Just one airline Give it a try on another you may find a different result You seem to be the type that just accepts NO once regardless of the situation 

"May find a different result" 

 

The keyword being "May"

 

So what is the best solution, buy a business class ticket as he did last time, tell his GF he is coming, possibly book hotels and then be refused boarding

 

Or,

 

Resolve the issue BEFORE doing all of the above and have no problems whatsoever?

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

A lawyer in Thailand might be able to get the issue fixed (name/passport# removed from the pre-flight boarding list), but that could be expensive.  Another workaround - get a Thai Tourist Visa, fly to Penang, Train-in to Thailand - then fly from Hat Yai to where ever. 

[darrendsd]

Personally I would contact a Thai Embassy in India, explain the situation and ask them to contact Immigration to get this red flag removed and get a official letter stating that it has been removed in case of any further issues with the Airlines

 

If the Embassy won't help then contact Immigration directly to resolve

[007 RED]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

As far as I know no airline maintains a database with immigration info kept in it. They do submit a passenger list to immigration for their review is all they can do.

 

5 hours ago, darrendsd said:

If nobody knows the real reason he was refused boarding how can it be "that simple"?

 

4 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Anybody know when this happens?

 

Immediately after booking, or just before check-in, or some random day between the two?

Thailand introduced an Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) at the beginning of 2016.  All international carries conveying passengers to any one of the six international airports in Thailand are required to provide basic passenger information to the Thai authorities prior to allowing the passenger to board the flight.

 

The information which the airline passes to the Thai Authorities is derived from the passenger’s passport, namely:  Country Code; Gender; Date of Birth; Passport Number; Family and First Names.  In many cases the passenger will have provided this information as part of the booking process.  If not, then the check-in agent will enter it into the airline system during check-in process, or if the passenger is using an auto-check-in facility the information is captured when the passenger scans their passport (photo page).

 

The basic passenger information is sent to the Thai APIS as soon as it becomes available (from when the passenger books up to and including check-in).  Upon receiving the basic passenger info the Thai APIS checks the details against a number of databases and the airline then receives a code back indicating that the passenger is good to fly, or not.  If the APIS picks up a problem then the airline are only advised to refuse boarding but not the reason(s) why.  It should also be noted that the information is also passed to the passenger's original country law enforcement just in case the passenger is want by them.

 

Airlines are very wary at allowing someone to fly if they get a refuse boarding code back because if immigration refuse entry the airline is responsible for conveying the passenger back to point of departure, plus they incur a substantial fine

 

The problem experienced by the OP may have been an error within the Thai database system.  For example:  an incorrect date or length of ban.  It could also be as a result of the database throwing up the ban and then confronted with a new passport bearing the same basic details (apart from the PP number) which it thinks is someone trying to circumvent the system.  The process is automatic with no human interface double checking the results.

 

Solutions:  Possibly contact Thai Immigration and explain the problem to them, but that can be (very) difficult.  Alternatively, fly to one of the neighbouring countries and cross into Thailand via one of the land border crossings.

Edited September 19, 2017 by 007 RED
Typo

[ukrules]

So the immigration department have not implemented their systems correctly. I am not surprised.

[darrendsd]

36 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

 

 

Thailand introduced an Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) at the beginning of 2016.  All international carries conveying passengers to any one of the six international airports in Thailand are required to provide basic passenger information to the Thai authorities prior to allowing the passenger to board the flight.

 

The information which the airline passes to the Thai Authorities is derived from the passenger’s passport, namely:  Country Code; Gender; Date of Birth; Passport Number; Family and First Names.  In many cases the passenger will have provided this information as part of the booking process.  If not, then the check-in agent will enter it into the airline system during check-in process, or if the passenger is using an auto-check-in facility the information is captured when the passenger scans their passport (photo page).

 

The basic passenger information is sent to the Thai APIS as soon as it becomes available (from when the passenger books up to and including check-in).  Upon receiving the basic passenger info the Thai APIS checks the details against a number of databases and the airline then receives a code back indicating that the passenger is good to fly, or not.  If the APIS picks up a problem then the airline are only advised to refuse boarding but not the reason(s) why.  It should also be noted that the information is also passed to the passenger's original country law enforcement just in case the passenger is want by them.

 

Airlines are very wary at allowing someone to fly if they get a refuse boarding code back because if immigration refuse entry the airline is responsible for conveying the passenger back to point of departure, plus they incur a substantial fine

 

The problem experienced by the OP may have been an error within the Thai database system.  For example:  an incorrect date or length of ban.  It could also be as a result of the database throwing up the ban and then confronted with a new passport bearing the same basic details (apart from the PP number) which it thinks is someone trying to circumvent the system.  The process is automatic with no human interface double checking the results.

 

Solutions:  Possibly contact Thai Immigration and explain the problem to them, but that can be (very) difficult.  Alternatively, fly to one of the neighbouring countries and cross into Thailand via one of the land border crossings.

This would explain why the OP was allowed to fly the first time but not the 2nd, maybe the Airlines system had not updated that his ban had finished

 

If the OP has a GF here it's possible he will travel here frequently and if he uses another Airline could run into further issues again

 

Hence the need in my view to get a Official letter from Immigration stating his ban has expired or when he books his next flight explain to the Airline about the situation  and that he has the letter of proof so they are forewarned if anything comes up on their system when boarding

 

 

[007 RED]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

So the immigration department have not implemented their systems correctly. I am not surprised.

I'm not sure about immigration not having implementing the system properly... more likely a case of human error entering incorrect date information... What's that old saying in the computer world?   Garbage in - Garbage out

 

[BritTim]

If the OP really wants to come to Thailand with minimal risk of denied entry, I suggest flying to Vientiane, crossing at the Friendship bridge, and taking a domestic flight from Udon Thani to Bangkok (or wherever his final destination might be). If (unlikely) immigration at Nong Khai indicates there is a problem, he at least can discuss it with them directly, and hopefully get any improper red flags removed.

[007 RED]

1 hour ago, darrendsd said:

This would explain why the OP was allowed to fly the first time but not the 2nd, maybe the Airlines system had not updated that his ban had finished

 

If the OP has a GF here it's possible he will travel here frequently and if he uses another Airline could run into further issues again

 

Hence the need in my view to get a Official letter from Immigration stating his ban has expired or when he books his next flight explain to the Airline about the situation  and that he has the letter of proof so they are forewarned if anything comes up on their system when boarding

 

 

FYI - The airlines will not have any knowledge of the OP's ban unless the check-in clerk goes through every page of his passport and knows what a banned stamp looks like (which is highly unlikely given the need to check passengers in as quickly as possible). ... when the airline sends the basic passenger data to the Thai Authorities via the APIS they only receive a code letter back which indicates either OK to fly or do not allow to board... No reason is given for denial of boarding.

 

I'm not sure that a letter from Thai immigration will help... As indicated above, the airline will only go with the APIS feedback and may consider the letter to be a fake.... they dare not risk allowing him to fly after they get a deny boarding feedback code - they will have to bear the cost of repatriation plus hefty fine if Thai immigration refuse him entry.

 

As indicated previously, he could try to get immigration to correct the possible error in the system but that is going to be difficult (loss of face on the part of immigration) or fly to a neighbouring country and come into Thailand via a land board crossing.

Edited September 19, 2017 by 007 RED

[darrendsd]

7 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

FYI - The airlines will not have any knowledge of the OP's ban unless the check-in clerk goes through every page of his passport and knows what a banned stamp looks like (which is highly unlikely given the need to check passengers in as quickly as possible). ... when the airline sends the basic passenger data to the Thai Authorities via the APIS they only receive a code letter back which indicates either OK to fly or do not allow to board... No reason is given for denial of boarding.

 

I'm not sure that a letter from Thai immigration will help... As indicated above, the airline will only go with the APIS feedback and may consider the letter to be a fake.... they dare not risk allowing him to fly after they get a deny boarding feedback code - they will have to bear the cost of repatriation plus hefty fine if Thai immigration refuse him entry.

 

As indicated previously, he could try to get immigration to correct the possible error in the system but that is going to be difficult (loss of face on the part of immigration) or fly to a neighbouring country and come into Thailand via a land board crossing.

The OP was using a new PP

 

He had already flown here after his ban and was refused the 2nd time

 

It seems to me that this is a issue with the Airline he tried to use the 2nd time not updating their systems,

 

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by darrendsd

[007 RED]

17 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

The OP was using a new PP

 

He had already flown here after his ban and was refused the 2nd time

 

It seems to me that this is a issue with the Airline he tried to use the 2nd time not updating their systems,

 

 

Darren.... If you go back and read the OP's original post (No.1)... he states: " I was offloaded and was told that I had some issue with immigration due to which the system isn't able to issue me the boarding pass ". 

 

This is a fairly good indication that the problem lies with the APIS and Thai immigration database possibly having incorrect info in it.... hence the APIS feeding back a do not allow to board code.

 

[darrendsd]

15 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Darren.... If you go back and read the OP's original post (No.1)... he states: " I was offloaded and was told that I had some issue with immigration due to which the system isn't able to issue me the boarding pass ". 

 

This is a fairly good indication that the problem lies with the APIS and Thai immigration database possibly having incorrect info in it.... hence the APIS feeding back a do not allow to board code.

 

I understand this but if this is the case why was he allowed to board the first time he returned?

[bkk6060]

Should have booked to a shorter place not on Thai then come in.

Sorry..

[darrendsd]

Just now, bkk6060 said:

Should have booked to a shorter place not on Thai then come in.

Sorry..

 

How would he have known this problem was going to happen considering he had already been here once after his ban had finished?

 

Do you need to be able to look into the future to fly somewhere nowadays?