severe pain in both shoulders

[gamini]

8 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

I have been experiencing pain in both shoulders for 3 years now.

I have had physio but that did not work, so as the pain was not severe I have ignored it.

 

But now since I busted my foot up the pain on both sides becomes nearly unbearable until I rub tiger baslm on it and whack two tramadol tablets down me.

I must add that the pain only comes on at NIGHT (7-8), which in itself is strange.

 

I have read that statins can cause problems like this so it could be the choice of taking them off my medication list or putting up with the problem.

 

It's nothing I have done to myself, if it was in one shoulder I could buy into that ,but it's both!!

 

Has anyone had any experience of this and if so what do you do about it?

Accupuncture really works. You must have it at least once a week and it takes a few weeks to work. Then you must continue it to keep the pain away. I have it at a government hospital Bt  250 a session

[bazza73]

Surgery is a last resort. First the cause has to be established. As another poster has said, an MRI is the gold standard for establishing cause. Without it, your shoulder pain is a treatment dartboard.

[Kevbo]

5 hours ago, npboy99 said:

It is hard to be sure of what might be causing it but have you investigated  frozen shoulder? http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/frozen-shoulder/basics/definition/con-20022510 I had this in both shoulders and it was excruciating, particularly at night. 

I've read recently that saline injections are very effective for frozen shoulder, worth a try, good luck mate

[Krataiboy]

Lots of sensible suggestions from posters already. Personally, I would say that unless you have already had a TIA, stroke or heart attack or are one of an unfortunate minority of individuals who suffer from a condition known as hypercholesterolaemia, you should ask yourself whether you really need to take statins at all.

 

Muscle pain is one of the commonest side effects of these powerful yet controversial drugs. There are many other risk factors to consider - some of a potentially far more serious.

 

Rather than rely entirely on doctors, who are routinely short on time and under enormous pressure from drug companies to push their products, I would do some research for yourself - after all, it's your body, your health and your life which is at stake and knowledge is strength.

 

There is plenty of helpful stuff on the Internet not only relating to statins, but also hypertension, the causes and treatments.

 

Depending on your age and other factors,  dramatically reducing your cholesterol levels may not be a good idea. It is worth (and I speak from experience) looking at some of the alternatives, such as proper nutrition and a healthier lifestyle.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Krataiboy

[Chaiwallah]

My Thai doctor wanted to put me on statins, but I told her I didn't trust the pharmaceutical industry and based on what I've read I'm better off using gemfibrozil, a cholesterol medication I have a long history with. She didn't like me questioning her judgment, but I was adamant, and the gemfibrozil is working just fine. It's also a generic and quite a bit cheaper than the statins I suspect, but that's a non-issue with me.

[ThaiPauly]

3 hours ago, JPFIT said:

Hi I am a sports therapist and on Statins.  I had some muscle aches and my cholesterol was ok on 20 mg so I dropped down to 10 mg now on Crestor and it is good no pain.  Speak to your doctor first before you make any decision as he will have to check your current level.  If this does not work it may be a problem with poor posture, try to do some shoulder mobility exercises and some upper back strengthening exercises like squeezing the shoulder blades together and holding for 10 seconds repeat 10 x.  Loads of stuff on youtube to look at.  If you do not mind me asking what is your age? It is unusual to get pain in both shoulders so I would try to change your statins or lower the dose first.  Hope that has been of some help.

 

Joe

Thanks for the info Joe.....I am 63

[ThaiPauly]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

Accupuncture really works. You must have it at least once a week and it takes a few weeks to work. Then you must continue it to keep the pain away. I have it at a government hospital Bt  250 a session

That is something I have thought about and thanks for mentioning it. I know someone that does it although not as cheap as 250 baht a session

 

[ThaiPauly]

3 hours ago, yimlitnoy said:

This is my case but we never know, it might apply for you.  At work I was given a very soft mattress and this caused severe back and shoulder pain during following days.  I simply changed the mattress for a harder one then all was ok, no more Voltaren pills.  The doctor did not know the cause of my pain.

My mattress is hard the way I like it and my pillow is very soft as I also get neck pain

[ThaiPauly]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

If you have had "a couple of injections" for it, there must be some sort of diagnosis? Ditto if you were referred to physio?.

 

Were these steroid injections?  What is the underlying diagnosis? Have you had an MRI of the cervical spine?

 

This sort of thing can have a number of causes, including spinal problems. You need to start by getting the cause ascertained.

 

Statins can indeed cause muscle aches but usually these are generalized. The fact that only the shoulders are affected -- but both of them -- makes me suspect a possible spinal cause.

 

In Chiang Mai, Dr. Torphong Bunmaprasert is an excellent, US-trained  spinal specialist. Can be seen at Sripat. I've heard he is also   at CM Ram on Saturdays  though I do not find him listed on their website.

 

 

No MRI yet Sheryl, it's only just got bad enough to post about it on here, I had quarterzone injections a couple of times and they helped a bit.Dr Preecha at CMR just said that I should get better after them, but I did not, then other problems have taken over my time and budget. I have come onto this forum to start my quest for some relief and have been overwhelmed by the response, it's certainly given me things to ponder. I really hope it's not spinal, I don't want an operation on my back if I can at all help it.

[ThaiPauly]

3 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

Just have to ask: what kind of work do you do?

I am retired...so as little as possible

Edited September 19, 2017 by ThaiPauly
Spelling

[ThaiPauly]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

He is saying the statins may have been causing his pain. He does not mention how long it had been present.  It is the OP who's problem is of 3 year duration.

Yep. I have had the pain for 3 years but it's only flared up in the last few days, I put up with it before putting it down to the statins which I believe I need, now I need all the help I can get with it.

 

I may go and see the same doctor that's looking after my foot Sheryl

[ThaiPauly]

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

Surgery is a last resort. First the cause has to be established. As another poster has said, an MRI is the gold standard for establishing cause. Without it, your shoulder pain is a treatment dartboard.

I agree Bazza, I want to avoid any back surgery and have said this in another reply to a post here.

[sirineou]

 

I had exactly the same , but only on my right shoulder, It really did not hurt during the day but at night it would sometimes wake me up

I am also on statins. 

  I don't know if the condition was caused by the statins, I thunk most likely there was an underlying condition amplified by the statins.

Also I understand that such conditions are treated with steroid shots which might explain why it did not hurt during the day  while we might have elevated steroid levels in our bodies.

  Though this might sound right it is only supposition based on assumptions that might not be correct.

 I cut down on my statin intake by half, by taking it every other day, and the condition went away,  but keep in mind that it might be a coincidence.  .

     I still dont know what affect the statin cut had on my cholesterol, I will check in a couple of weeks.

When I was experiencing the pain I would apply a Lidocaine patch and within 15 min the pain would go away and I would go to sleep.

The Lidocaine was subscription strength  I am not sure of the strength (they are back in the US)   I am going back next week and I will check, I think it was 5% strength but I could be wrong

If you are still experiencing pain Lidocaine might be a stop gap solution   Keep in mind that self medication is not without it's dangers and I would consult with your doctor to make sure its Ok and it does not react with any other medication you are on

[connda]

10 hours ago, MarkusAUST said:

You should visit a specialised remedial therapist. The only one I know of is Nigel Kelsey in Pattaya, who is absolutely brilliant. My dad had the same thing and he spent a fortune trying everything. One visit to Nigel fixed it 80% and the second solved it completely. From someone who couldn't move his shoulders without pain, he is now playing badminton again. I will message you his details.

PM me too with Mr. Kelsey's info.  I'd appreciate it!

[connda]

9 hours ago, transam said:

Diclafenac tablets are worth a try, was on them for years to sort stuff. I did have a Hydrocortisone injection in one shoulder which worked well..

Be careful with Diclofenac and other NSAIDs, especially if you're older.  They are toxic to your kidneys and can cause chronic kidney disease.  Get your kidney function tested regularly if you are older and using that class of drugs. 

[Sheryl]

Where were the cortisone injections given? (Into the shoulder? Cervical Spine?) and for what diagnosis? A doctor does not inject cortisone without some type of diagnosis (or should not...).

[connda]

4 hours ago, Oztruckie said:

Had the same problem few years ago in my right shoulder,was diagnosed as frozen shoulder,physio guys strapped it up with tape which eliminated the pain,also Voltarin tablets were very good,physio told me usually goes away after 12 months,can have surgery,doesn't always cure the problem.

Voltarin is Diclofenac.  See my previous post regarding kidneys and this class of drug.  Same advice.  If you're planning on taking this for an extended period of time, get your kidney function (eGFR) tested regularly if you're older. 

[ThaiPauly]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Where were the cortisone injections given? (Into the shoulder? Cervical Spine?) and for what diagnosis? A doctor does not inject cortisone without some type of diagnosis (or should not...).

In the shoulder Sheryl. if he did give me a diagnosis he probably said it was atheritis and should clear up on it's own.

Same doctor I ditched over my ankle problems

[Kevbo]

2 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

My mattress is hard the way I like it and my pillow is very soft as I also get neck pain

If you also have neck pain it may well point to disc compaction, traction could be beneficial.

It wouldn't hurt to stop the statins for a month to eliminate that possibility, just watch your diet ...

[SteveMack]

36 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

In the shoulder Sheryl. if he did give me a diagnosis he probably said it was atheritis and should clear up on it's own.

Same doctor I ditched over my ankle problems

cortisone injections were given in shoulder to my sister for frozen shoulders,

[whaleboneman]

10 hours ago, osandpo said:

You may already have done it but get a firmer bed and use a pillow that supports your neck well (not just your head) - then read up on better sleeping positions. I had intense neck and shoulder pain before I changed to sleeping on my back more. 

 

BTW, no need to buy a special pillow. Just lie on your back and then pull your pillow down further behind your head  so it's bunched up a bit under your neck. The extra support really helps

If you wake up in the morning in pain - it may be the bed.

If the pain is at night - I don't think it's bed related.

How about seeing a chiropractor?

[Skeptic7]

On 9/18/2017 at 9:55 PM, ThaiPauly said:

I have been experiencing pain in both shoulders for 3 years now.

I have had physio but that did not work, so as the pain was not severe I have ignored it.

 

But now since I busted my foot up the pain on both sides becomes nearly unbearable until I rub tiger baslm on it and whack two tramadol tablets down me.

I must add that the pain only comes on at NIGHT (7-8), which in itself is strange.

 

I have read that statins can cause problems like this so it could be the choice of taking them off my medication list or putting up with the problem.

 

It's nothing I have done to myself, if it was in one shoulder I could buy into that ,but it's both!!

 

Has anyone had any experience of this and if so what do you do about it?

I can relate. Night pain (waking you up) is common and can be ABSOLUTELY unbearable with shoulder injuries. Ice is your best friend, but won't help you sleep. Mine was a small tear in the rotator cuff, which didn't require surgery. Took 3 months to heal with limited use, light PT, which can be done at home, and one very helpful cortisone shot. Both shoulders is a bigger mystery and should be checked. In the meantime, Don't totally stop using them as "frozen shoulder syndrome" becomes a worrisome possibility. Get them checked...unfortunately a simple x-ray won't show rotator cuff tears and will require expensive MRI. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Skeptic7

[ThaiPauly]

1 minute ago, Skeptic7 said:

I can relate. Night pain (waking you up) is common and can be ABSOLUTELY unbearable with shoulder injuries. Ice is your best friend, but won't help you sleep. Mine was a small tear in the rotator cuff, which didn't require surgery. Took 3 months to heal with limited use and light PT, which can be done at home. Both shoulders is a mystery and should be checked. In the meantime, Don't totally stop using them as "frozen shoulder syndrome" becomes a worrisome possibility. Get them checked...unfortunately a simple x-ray won't show rotator cuff tears and will require expensive MRI. 

I don't mind paying for an MRI if I have to, but as it goes I never had any pain last night after I went to bed. There was pain starting about 4 so I took painkillers then and the SOB never came back. I still need to get to the bottom of it, we shall see how today goes. Guess my situation is not as bad as yours was I am glad to hear you recovered.

[Sheryl]

16 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

In the shoulder Sheryl. if he did give me a diagnosis he probably said it was atheritis and should clear up on it's own.

Same doctor I ditched over my ankle problems

If he injected you with cortisone without even an MRI and no clear diagnosis then indeed, should ditch him for the shoulder as well.

 

Any treatment not based on an actual diagnosis is at best a waste of time and at worst, may worsen whatever the underlying problem is.

 

Even for physiotherapy, need a diagnosis of the underlying cause to be sure the exercises are the right ones

[Tofer]

On 19 September 2017 at 9:23 AM, MarkusAUST said:

You should visit a specialised remedial therapist. The only one I know of is Nigel Kelsey in Pattaya, who is absolutely brilliant. My dad had the same thing and he spent a fortune trying everything. One visit to Nigel fixed it 80% and the second solved it completely. From someone who couldn't move his shoulders without pain, he is now playing badminton again. I will message you his details.

Hi Markus, would you please message me his details also. I'm no where near Pattaya, but if he's that good I'll travel.

[Tofer]

On 19 September 2017 at 2:22 PM, ThaiWai said:

Since it is both shoulders it is possibly a compressed nerve between c6 and c7.  Pain or tingling can manifest in the shoulders and can go down the arms all the way to the fingers.  See my scan below.  For temporary pain relief skip the tramadols for a few days instead load on Tylenol.  By load I mean take 2 caplets every 6 hours while symptoms last. Do not take more than 6 caplets in 24 hours, unless directed by a doctor.  The level of medication needed to reduce swelling must be brought up and kept at that level to be effective.  The Tylenol should reduce swelling rather than mask the pain like the tramadol.  If it is a herniated disk don't rush to surgery.  I saw a top surgeon in NY who advised me to give the disk time to heal as the vast majority will on their own.  Mine in fact did.  See a specialist.

 

 

Wish I'd posted the question on here before I spent a considerable sum on our local physio practitioner. That's exactly the problem I have right now. 

I'll try your medication solution as after 7 visits to physo I'm still suffering,  albeit to a lesser degree. Thanks.

[yimlitnoy]

On 9/19/2017 at 3:33 PM, klauskunkel said:

Just have to ask: what kind of work do you do?

Ah ah ah!  Well site Geologist, I sleep on location but in a very comfortable setting traveling by helicopter...  Often we are given a foam mattress, not a Leesa mattress.

Edited September 22, 2017 by yimlitnoy

[yimlitnoy]

On 9/19/2017 at 3:33 PM, Sheryl said:

If you have had "a couple of injections" for it, there must be some sort of diagnosis? Ditto if you were referred to physio?.

 

Were these steroid injections?  What is the underlying diagnosis? Have you had an MRI of the cervical spine?

 

This sort of thing can have a number of causes, including spinal problems. You need to start by getting the cause ascertained.

 

Statins can indeed cause muscle aches but usually these are generalized. The fact that only the shoulders are affected -- but both of them -- makes me suspect a possible spinal cause.

 

In Chiang Mai, Dr. Torphong Bunmaprasert is an excellent, US-trained  spinal specialist. Can be seen at Sripat. I've heard he is also   at CM Ram on Saturdays  though I do not find him listed on their website.

 

 

To hide the pain with Diclophenac is not the solution.  In another topic, Sheryl you were right, cataract surgery under local anesthetic does not hurt at all., the surgery took 5 min.  Thank you for your advice.

[chubby]

spend the money , get a 2nd or 3rd opinion,  seems wise ,  not enough information to guess much more than that ,  eg  whats the rest of your medication list ?

 

Guidelines for discovering serious spinal health problems list a number of "red flags," among them nocturnal back pain.

Nocturnal back pain can be a symptom of spinal tumors. It could be a primary tumor, one that originates in the spine, or it could be a metastatic tumor, one that results from cancer that started elsewhere in the body and then spread to the spine.

Nocturnal back pain is also a symptom of spinal bone infection (osteomyelitis) and ankylosing spondylitis (AS), a condition that can cause the spine to fuse in a fixed, immobile position.