New Build in Khon Kaen

[Jeffrey346]

Let's talk about aircon. Where I come from, we install central air. If you are running 2 or 3 room units, I would think todays efficient central air may be the way to go. Comments are appreciated....

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Jeffrey346 said:

Let's talk about aircon. Where I come from, we install central air. If you are running 2 or 3 room units, I would think todays efficient central air may be the way to go. Comments are appreciated....

14 years i tried my best getting a contractor for the ducts but to no avail. another problem is that airhandlers and compressors are available but when you cross the capacity of 36,000btu/h (3 tons) most of the compressor/condensor units are 3-phase, id est one phase missing or even brown-out means no cooling. and if you don't have a protective gadgget to shut down all three phases till the brown-out is over 20 or 30k Baht are gone for repairs. we built a nearly identical version of the home we had in Florida. the latter had three central systems (60k, 36k and 24k btu/h) which was much more efficient than the present single units in Thailand.

[Jeffrey346]

3 minutes ago, Naam said:

14 years i tried my best getting a contractor for the ducts but to no avail. another problem is that airhandlers and compressors are available but when you cross the capacity of 36,000btu/h (3 tons) most of the compressor/condensor units are 3-phase, id est one phase missing or even brown-out means no cooling. and if you don't have a protective gadgget to shut down all three phases till the brown-out is over 20 or 30k Baht are gone for repairs. we built a nearly identical version of the home we had in Florida. the latter had three central systems (60k, 36k and 24k btu/h) which was much more efficient than the present single units in Thailand.

I believe you are correct regarding the 3 Ton cut off. Back home, we usually installed 2 units. One in the living area and one in the bedroom area, as there is no reason to keep the entire house at the same temp day and night. .I did talk to a Traine AC dealer. He said he handles the complete install and recommends splitting the units. He did say splitting the units could cost 20% more depending on the size of the house but could be made up based on electric savings.Assuming he is telling the truth.. LOL

[sirineou]

I also have central AC in my FL home , but window units in NY where you only need AC August and maybe a litle in September. I thought about central for Thailand but I subscribe to the "when in Rome "  Rule. 

I think there will be some issues with central AC in Thailand.

First I would be concerned with ducts in the attic, and if I did I would want the attic to be well ventilated. 

Second , if central AC  brakes, the whole system is out, where with dedicated units, you still have the ones in the other rooms.

Third you don't have to cool all rooms ( you can close the vents in rooms you don't want cooled with Central but you unbalance the whole system).

Forth you are limited in purchasing and maintenance to the few places that offer Central AA in Thailand.

    I will admit that I don't know much about Central AC in Thailand, and my opinion is a uneducated one.

My plan is a large BTU unit in the Living Room / Kitchen area (preliminary calculations about 20,000) and two smaller Units  for the bedrooms. I will deal with it when I come back to Thailand in the Fall.

Living Room/kitchen  is  11mx4m the btu calculator say 15.000 but but I think more because of the kitchen  heat generating issue. 

Master bedroom 5,5mx4 m  calculated at 7000 btu

Guest bedroom  4.5mx4m    calculated at 5,000 btu

All inverter units . I expect to pay abou 60,000 bht

I appreciate any advice on the subject. 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by sirineou

[Jeffrey346]

9 hours ago, sirineou said:

I also have central AC in my FL home , but window units in NY where you only need AC August and maybe a litle in September. I thought about central for Thailand but I subscribe to the "when in Rome "  Rule. 

I think there will be some issues with central AC in Thailand.

First I would be concerned with ducts in the attic, and if I did I would want the attic to be well ventilated. 

Second , if central AC  brakes, the whole system is out, where with dedicated units, you still have the ones in the other rooms.

Third you don't have to cool all rooms ( you can close the vents in rooms you don't want cooled with Central but you unbalance the whole system).

Forth you are limited in purchasing and maintenance to the few places that offer Central AA in Thailand.

    I will admit that I don't know much about Central AC in Thailand, and my opinion is a uneducated one.

My plan is a large BTU unit in the Living Room / Kitchen area (preliminary calculations about 20,000) and two smaller Units  for the bedrooms. I will deal with it when I come back to Thailand in the Fall.

Living Room/kitchen  is  11mx4m the btu calculator say 15.000 but but I think more because of the kitchen  heat generating issue. 

Master bedroom 5,5mx4 m  calculated at 7000 btu

Guest bedroom  4.5mx4m    calculated at 5,000 btu

All inverter units . I expect to pay abou 60,000 bht

I appreciate any advice on the subject. 

 

The master and guest bedrooms seem low to me. I would think you need at least 9000 BTU's. 

[Rdrokit]

24 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

The master and guest bedrooms seem low to me. I would think you need at least 9000 BTU's. 

Agreed. Unless you want to keep the temp at 30. Upstairs is going to be hotter than downstairs and will need more BTUs to keep it cool. You don't want your compressor to be running 100% of the time. The smallest bedroom up stairs will need at least a 9000.

[Naam]

10 hours ago, sirineou said:

Master bedroom 5,5mx4 m  calculated at 7000 btu

Guest bedroom  4.5mx4m    calculated at 5,000 btu

All inverter units . I expect to pay abou 60,000 bht

I appreciate any advice on the subject. 

-master bedroom calculated "too tight", 12,000 btu/h would be adequate

especially when using an inverter.

-to the best of my knowledge 5k btu/h are not available, i've also never seen 7k btu/h.

guest bedroom should have 9k btu/h.

 

Quote

Living Room/kitchen  is  11mx4m the btu calculator say 15.000

no way! minimum 24k btu/h.

[Destiny1990]

10 minutes ago, Naam said:

-master bedroom calculated "too tight", 12,000 btu/h would be adequate

especially when using an inverter.

-to the best of my knowledge 5k btu/h are not available, i've also never seen 7k btu/h.

guest bedroom should have 9k btu/h.

 

no way! minimum 24k btu/h.

Does the ceiling height matters for the calculation?

can it be that a bigger aircon unit on a low speed will save on ur electricity bill or be just more wise to buy then a small aircon unit running at a high speed? Seems overcapacity is less of a problem then under capacity?

Edited February 13, 2018 by Destiny1990

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

Does the ceiling height matters for the calculation?

can it be that a bigger aircon unit on a low speed will save on ur electricity bill or be just more wise to buy then a small aircon unit running at a high speed? Seems overcapacity is less of a problem then under capacity?

ceiling height matters only when installing cassette units mounted in the ceiling. "low speed" of the compressor which is drawing 85% of the energy is only possible with an inverter unit where compressor speed is adjusted according to cooling demand. conventional units run at a constant speed, i.e. your assumption comparing it with a car engine does not apply. overcapacity means less latent cooling (less dehumidification), undercapacity has only one draw back which is you can't get the room as cool as you want.

 

one of the fairy tales surfacing quite often is "a small unit has to word harder and breaks down earlier". that's completely wrong. the big wear and tear on compressors, capacitors and relays is on/off on/off on/off.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

ceiling height matters only when installing cassette units mounted in the ceiling. "low speed" of the compressor which is drawing 85% of the energy is only possible with an inverter unit where compressor speed is adjusted according to cooling demand. conventional units run at a constant speed, i.e. your assumption comparing it with a car engine does not apply. overcapacity means less latent cooling (less dehumidification), undercapacity has only one draw back which is you can't get the room as cool as you want.

 

one of the fairy tales surfacing quite often is "a small unit has to word harder and breaks down earlier". that's completely wrong. the big wear and tear on compressors, capacitors and relays is on/off on/off on/off.

I agree , 

I have being told that an oversize unit will cycle on and of more often than a properly sized unit and wear out sooner, The reason being that an oversize unit will run at short bursts, 

I have no first hand experience in this, simply repeating what I was told.

As far as the AC unit sizes go I used the following calculator. 

https://www.totalhomesupply.com/air-conditioner-btu-calculation-chart-and-guide

ofcourse converting meters to Ft.  Not sure it is an accurate calculator

I would appreciate a link to a better one.

Then I found the following formula:

Length Ft x   width ft x height ft x 5 which works out 35x13x10x5=  23,400  and closer to your  24,000 btu recommendation for the living room.

 

[cheeryble]

3 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

The master and guest bedrooms seem low to me. I would think you need at least 9000 BTU's. 

You HAVE to buy 9kbtu it's the smallest right?.

 

Both a friend and I have fitted 12kbtu in spaces abt 40+sqm and found theme to be plenty adequate if you're happy with 34-35 degC. I know....it well below spec.

 

Let's talk abt price later.......I paid 12500 recently for an LG 12kbtu installed.......usually buy Daikin but for this fantastic price can't go wrong.....it looks really good, is slim, and EXTREMELY quiet inside and out.

Edited February 13, 2018 by cheeryble

[Naam]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Then I found the following formula:

Length Ft x   width ft x height ft x 5 which works out 35x13x10x5=  23,400  and closer to your  24,000 btu recommendation for the living room.

rule of thumb in Thailand is 700btu/h per m² which works out in your case to more than 30k btu/h, meaning 24k is absolute minimum. as it is a quite longish room my advice is to install two smaller unit each 12k btu/h (if you are not too tight on finances). in the long run this arrangement pays.

 

note: underdimensioning a unit fails to use the inverter advantage, you pay good money for something that is hardly ever used. that also applies to the bedrooms!

[Naam]

54 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

Both a friend and I have fitted 12kbtu in spaces abt 40+sqm and found theme to be plenty adequate if you're happy with 34-35 degC.

who, pray tell, is happy with 34-35ºC inside the home???

[Rdrokit]

9 minutes ago, Naam said:

who, pray tell, is happy with 34-35ºC inside the home???

Guess they like to sweat. I can take 30 with a fan. Any hotter and the a/c has to come on.

[cheeryble]

who, pray tell, is happy with 34-35ºC inside the home???

WHOOPS!
That would be 24-25degC......cool enough for cool cats though not for some odd bods I suspect of not being humanoid. (Nothing personal to Klingons)


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[sirineou]

 

6 hours ago, Naam said:

rule of thumb in Thailand is 700btu/h per m² which works out in your case to more than 30k btu/h, meaning 24k is absolute minimum. as it is a quite longish room my advice is to install two smaller unit each 12k btu/h (if you are not too tight on finances). in the long run this arrangement pays.

 

note: underdimensioning a unit fails to use the inverter advantage, you pay good money for something that is hardly ever used. that also applies to the bedrooms!

Excellent idea!,  One large AC in a room that long would create an unbalanced system and where the unit blows might be uncomfortably cold. Two smaller units would distribute the air more evenly and have the additional advantage of redundancy.

I looked at the Home Pro website  a  24,000 btu will cost 40,000 baht

where two 12,000 btu also would cost about 40,000 bht

But I noticed a substantial difference in price between brands. I don't mind paying 10,000 bht more to get a quality product that in the long run would prove to be less expensive.

Any opinions concerning brands?

Edited February 13, 2018 by sirineou

[cheeryble]

In my experience Homepro is definitely not the place to buy aircons.

Inverter aircons are now costing about one baht per btu if u shop well for a name brand......a big enough difference that I think it’s worth forgoing Daikin and Mitsubishi.

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

[Naam]

21 minutes ago, sirineou said:

But I noticed a substantial difference in price between brands. I don't mind paying 10,000 bht more to get a quality product that in the long run would prove to be less expensive.

Any opinions concerning brands?

don't listen to any opinions concerning brands as most of them are subjective and based on rather limited experience with different brands. in this respect the old saying applies "opinions are like àrseholes, everybody got one." for what it's worth... three National-Panasonic units are running in one of our homes since 1992 (used only 3 months in a year!) without a single penny repairs.

 

addendum: 5½ years West Africa, 9 Panasonic wall units running 24/7 with voltage fluctuations 90-250V... small problems such as starting capacitors replaced.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Naam

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

In my experience Homepro is definitely not the place to buy aircons.


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 I use Home Pro as my base line, as they have an excellent website. that is easy to search and navigate.

I am a frugal shopper (cheap!! LOL) and will certainly shop around.

  

[Naam]

5 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

I think it’s worth forgoing Daikin

here we go again. we have presently 19 Daikins installed. replaced recently two conventional wall units (each 12k btu/h) with one ceiling cassette unit (36k btu/h). based on nearly 12 years experience i only bought Daikin again because of the top service i am getting since a decade from the installer who insists on "Daikin only!"  

[Rdrokit]

As they say everyone has an opinion. We have a 19,000btu Samsung in the bedroom that has run for 10 years almost every night without a problem. Have it serviced once a year for 500 baht.

[Naam]

Just now, Rdrokit said:

As they say everyone has an opinion. We have a 19,000btu Samsung in the bedroom that has run for 10 years almost every night without a problem. Have it serviced once a year for 500 baht.

personally i was happy with any Samsung product i bought. have no experience with aircons.

[sirineou]

 I also find that most major brand on "big price" items tend to be relatively similar in quality ,

I am sure they all reverse engineer each others products  and  implement innovations what they find desirable .

IMO one good aspect of globalization has being that the increased competition has served to create superior products.

 

Thank you all for your excellent ideas , kind comment of encouragement, and good humor that often gives me a chackle .

 

 

[sirineou]

 except for the windows , whose existence I an beginning to doubt, The bathrooms are done 

I don't yet have a picture of the downstairs bathroom , but I did see it on facetime.

I insisted on a 6.000 w water heater , using my bigger is better argument,  wife said "but you always say size doesn't matter, it's how you use it" (we are talking about water heaters, get your minds out of the gutter)  I told her to shut the hell up !!! well i didn't really tell her that  but I thought it, and someday I will! 

So it is a 6000 (woohoo) watt Panasonic upstairs and a 4,000 watt mitsubishi downstairs (screw them downstairs, if they don't like it go to hotel) 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

here we go again. we have presently 19 Daikins installed. replaced recently two conventional wall units (each 12k btu/h) with one ceiling cassette unit (36k btu/h). based on nearly 12 years experience i only bought Daikin again because of the top service i am getting since a decade from the installer who insists on "Daikin only!"  

Yeap...when I've asked various A/C repairman I've used over the last 10 years or so who they consider the best A/C brands, each and every time their answer was Mitsubishi and Daikin...rated them equal in quality, reliability, etc. 

[Pib]

27 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 I insisted on a 6.000 w water heater , using my bigger is better argument,  wife said "but you always say size doesn't matter, it's how you use it" (we are talking about water heaters, get your minds out of the gutter)  I told her to shut the hell up !!! well i didn't really tell her that  but I thought it, and someday I will! 

So it is a 6000 (woohoo) watt Panasonic upstairs and a 4,000 watt mitsubishi downstairs (screw them downstairs, if they don't like it go to hotel) 

Yeap...in two of my home bathrooms I have Fagor 6000W heaters....both are around 10 years old....heat the water up fast...work fine.

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yeap...in two of my home bathrooms I have Fagor 6000W heaters....both are around 10 years old....heat the water up fast...work fine.

I considered the brand but thought the name sounded a litle gay 

 

an other poor attempt at humor LOL

[Jeffrey346]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

Yeap...in two of my home bathrooms I have Fagor 6000W heaters....both are around 10 years old....heat the water up fast...work fine.

I have an 8000W Turbora 10 years new and never had an issue with hot water.  Next house I will consider a whole house hot water heater as I have  4 people taking 2/3 showers a day, plus the dishwasher that makes it's own hot water, the hot water system may be cheaper to run.

[cheeryble]

I have an 8000W Turbora 10 years new and never had an issue with hot water.  Next house I will consider a whole house hot water heater as I have  4 people taking 2/3 showers a day, plus the dishwasher that makes it's own hot water, the hot water system may be cheaper to run.

IF expense is unimportant and the hot water outlets aren't close together how about the luxury of a circulating hot water system?


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[Naam]

25 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

IF expense is unimportant and the hot water outlets aren't close together how about the luxury of a circulating hot water system?

waste of energy if piping work is not properly insulated. there's nothing more effective than individual heaters in each bathroom except a central combined solar/electric unit and piping via ceiling in single story homes.