Trump clashes with sports world over player protests, invitation

[amvet]

13 hours ago, Credo said:

Not a good analogy at all.   Freedom of expression is guaranteed in the US and that includes the right to express yourself by not standing for the National Anthem.   

 

People fought and died to protect that right.

If a soldier does not stand and salute the flag at appropriate times he is put in jail.  Bet everyone stands at the Army Navy football game. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27jHNLHGzOo

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by amvet

[Slip]

33 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I do feel that sportsmen shouldnt use their sports arenas to make Political statements .

  Sportsmen should get on with playing their game .

If Sportsmen want to get into Politics, then they should make speeches at Political rallies .

   BTW, this kneeling was a show of disrespect to the USA and not specifically to Trump.

  Even if people disagree with Trump, they should still respect the democratic process .

   OK, if a Donald Trump anthem had been played, they would not have to join in with the song

Sorry, it seems I was quite wrong about you then, apologies for my overestimation of your values.  This whole idea of actors, sportspeople, whoever, not being allowed to have an opinion that impacts on/ is expressed through their professional lives is ridiculous in my opinion- they are people like the rest of us, who should be allowed to make moral (as opposed to political- anti-racism is not a political statement, it a moral issue) statements.  It's the whole concept of 'when good men do nothing...' 

 

Anyway, it seems to me that the kneel is actually quite a respectful position that has history in the equal rights movement.  I was amused that Trump misunderstood the linking of arms and as such deems it acceptable, and I am delighted that the sport has come out publicly to denounce him and stand (kneel) against him.

 

You may think kneeling is disrespectful but others do not, and it isn't your decision to make on behalf of a nation.  It isn't even Trump's decision to make.  (Protesting is part of the democratic process of course).

 

What is your opinion on the many hundreds of thousands of vets who support the kneelers?  Should they shut up and do their jobs too?  I have seen a groundswell of support for the sportsmen from those vets as well as the bodies in charge of the sports.

Funnily enough, if they were protesting a pro-Trump politician anthem, as opposed to racism as supported by a fledgling demagogue,  that would then be political as opposed to moral, and quite wrong.  Luckily the U.S. hasn't gone that far the tubes yet, but Trump and his klan are working on it.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Slip

[attrayant]

44 minutes ago, sanemax said:

BTW, this kneeling was a show of disrespect to the USA

 

No it wasn't.  It's a statement of protest, less drastic than flag burning (which has twice been ruled by the Supreme Court as constitutionally protected speech).

[amvet]

3 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

No it wasn't.  It's a statement of protest, less drastic than flag burning (which has twice been ruled by the Supreme Court as constitutionally protected speech).

The whole point of kneeling is to show disrespect to the electoral process that got Trump elected and not Hillary.  Why else do it?  It is a firm statement about not liking democracy if the results don't go your way.  Smart PC folks are supposed to win or the results should be reversed by constant shows of disrespect. 

[attrayant]

Do you really think that's why MLK Jr. did it fifty-some odd years ago?

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by attrayant
added link

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, Slip said:

Sorry, it seems I was quite wrong about you then, apologies for my overestimation of your values.  This whole idea of actors, sportspeople, whoever, not being allowed to have an opinion that impacts on/ is expressed through their professional lives is ridiculous in my opinion- they are people like the rest of us, who should be allowed to make moral (as opposed to political- anti-racism is not a political statement, it a moral issue) statements.  It's the whole concept of 'when good men do nothing...' 

 

 

Apology accepted , although you did seem to misunderstand my point .

Sportsman should indeed be allowed to have a political opinion, but it should be kept away from sport .

    They are there to play sport and if they want to get involved in politics, they should do that away from sporting arenas .

  We know have a ridiculous situation where as soon as someone who plays sport, gets the cameras on them, they feel the need to make a political statement .

  People want to watch them participate in their sport, not to hear what they think

. They thus also then project themselves from being just another sportsmen, whom most people wouldnt have heard of, to some defiant superhero making a stand, wreaks of narcissistic self promotion to me .

  Politics should be played out in political arenas and not sporting arenas

[Jingthing]

Moronic race baiting demagogue shoots himself in the foot yet again. Fire the sob dissenters he says? The only sob in this conflict is 45 itself and he should definitely be fired asap by the constitutional impeachment process. 

 

 

"President Trump’s decision to pick a racially charged fight with the world of pro football — one of a dwindling number of institutions that unite Americans of all races, classes and religions — carries a lot more political risk than past Twitter wars with the media and Hollywood figures his supporters detest."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Trump-picks-a-fight-with-NFL-players-that-is-full-12225058.php

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Jingthing

[sanemax]

37 minutes ago, Slip said:

Anyway, it seems to me that the kneel is actually quite a respectful position that has history in the equal rights movement.  I was amused that Trump misunderstood the linking of arms and as such deems it acceptable, and I am delighted that the sport has come out publicly to denounce him and stand (kneel) against him.

That is because you do not like Trump .

Would you have supported a group of sportsman who knelled at the US N/A to protest again Obamas presidency ?

[amvet]

18 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Do you really think that's why MLK Jr. did it fifty-some odd years ago?

 

About 150 players around the NFL sat, knelt or raised their fists in defiance.  The point is not standing when standing shows respect despite your obfuscation.  When you get married do you turn your back on your spouse when the vows are read?  No.  That would show a lack of respect.  The poor sports who can't stand the results of our electoral process are trying to scapegoat the current legal administration into a coup.  It is rather ironic that the bad sports are supposed to be sportsman.   

Edited September 25, 2017 by amvet

[iReason]

19 minutes ago, amvet said:

The whole point of kneeling is to show disrespect to the electoral process that got Trump elected and not Hillary. 

Why else do it?  It is a firm statement about not liking democracy if the results don't go your way. 

Smart PC folks are supposed to win or the results should be reversed by constant shows of disrespect. 

 

What a pile of facile parroted disinformation.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

"Why else do it?"

If you ask a question like that, then you are simply uninformed as to why it has occurred.

 

It has nothing to do with yours and the rest of the acolytes' blinkered conclusions.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, iReason said:

 

 

 

"Why else do it?"

If you ask a question like that, then you are simply uninformed as to why it has occurred.

 

 

You may as well inform us as to why they did it then 

[iReason]

11 minutes ago, amvet said:

The poor sports who can't stand the results of our electoral process are trying to scapegoat the current legal administration into a coup. 

 

Baseless, hyperbolic gibberish.

[Slip]

18 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Apology accepted , although you did seem to misunderstand my point .

Sportsman should indeed be allowed to have a political opinion, but it should be kept away from sport .

    They are there to play sport and if they want to get involved in politics, they should do that away from sporting arenas .

  We know have a ridiculous situation where as soon as someone who plays sport, gets the cameras on them, they feel the need to make a political statement .

  People want to watch them participate in their sport, not to hear what they think

. They thus also then project themselves from being just another sportsmen, whom most people wouldnt have heard of, to some defiant superhero making a stand, wreaks of narcissistic self promotion to me .

  Politics should be played out in political arenas and not sporting arenas

Being anti-racist is not a political position, it's a duty and an obligation. You see white supremacy as political, the rest of us see it as moral.  I want to see and hear those who have high public profiles tackle low-life racists on a daily basis because they are in a position to challenge unacceptable behaviour.  You say 'narcissist' I say 'role-model'.

'

 

 

Quote

 

  53 minutes ago, Slip said:

Anyway, it seems to me that the kneel is actually quite a respectful position that has history in the equal rights movement.  I was amused that Trump misunderstood the linking of arms and as such deems it acceptable, and I am delighted that the sport has come out publicly to denounce him and stand (kneel) against him.

That is because you do not like Trump .

Would you have supported a group of sportsman who knelled at the US N/A to protest again Obamas presidency ?

 

No- it's because I don't like racists.  If they had knelt because Obama was fomenting opinion against women for example, I would have supported it just as much.  Racism and other bigotry are not partisan issues.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Slip

[USPatriot]

So many people are sick of the overpaid players.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, USPatriot said:

So many people are sick of the overpaid players.

Another Socialist who clearly doesn't understand the free market system.

[USPatriot]

On 24/09/2017 at 5:49 AM, thaihome said:

Again, a speech playing to his minority base.

 

If someone has the right in the US to parade down a street with the flag of a movement that some 300,000 America died fighting then certainly some one has the right to take a knee during the national anthem in protest against the historical and ongoing treatment of black males by US police. 

 

 

 

 

More white males are shot by police than black males.

 

[iReason]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You may as well inform us as to why they did it then 

 

Nope.

That should be your objective,

before posting absurd nonsense about "Coups", "Hillary", "Smart PC folks" and "scapegoats."

[iReason]

9 minutes ago, USPatriot said:

More white males are shot by police than black males.

Nice try.

Yawn.

 

Whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population.

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, USPatriot said:

More white males are shot by police than black males.

 

It's about the rate

"Young black men were again killed by police at a sharply higher rate than other Americans in 2016, intensifying concerns over the expected abandonment of criminal justice reform by Donald Trump’s incoming administration.

Black males aged 15-34 were nine times more likely than other Americans to be killed by law enforcement officers last year, according to data collected for The Counted, an effort by the Guardian to record every such death. They were also killed at four times the rate of young white men."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/08/the-counted-police-killings-2016-young-black-men

[amvet]

10 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Baseless, hyperbolic gibberish.

After thoroughly reviewing the topic and listening to  interviews with the players who showed disrespect to the American National Anthem here are the results of my private opinion poll. 

 

1.  Dude's a chump.  2.  Jive turkey.  3.  I didn't vote vote but if I did it would not be fo dat honkey.  4.  The next 64 interviews were non verbal. 

 

I basically agree with your assessment that the reasons the football players did not stand were baseless, hyperbolic gibberish.  

[Scott]

Post removed.

 

[amvet]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

It's about the rate

"Young black men were again killed by police at a sharply higher rate than other Americans in 2016, intensifying concerns over the expected abandonment of criminal justice reform by Donald Trump’s incoming administration.

Black males aged 15-34 were nine times more likely than other Americans to be killed by law enforcement officers last year, according to data collected for The Counted, an effort by the Guardian to record every such death. They were also killed at four times the rate of young white men."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/08/the-counted-police-killings-2016-young-black-men

Is that the reason the football players didn't stand?  To make a smaller target?  That makes sense. 

[ilostmypassword]

16 minutes ago, amvet said:

After thoroughly reviewing the topic and listening to  interviews with the players who showed disrespect to the American National Anthem here are the results of my private opinion poll. 

 

1.  Dude's a chump.  2.  Jive turkey.  3.  I didn't vote vote but if I did it would not be fo dat honkey.  4.  The next 64 interviews were non verbal. 

 

I basically agree with your assessment that the reasons the football players did not stand were baseless, hyperbolic gibberish.  

And you probably believe you're not a racist.

[iReason]

13 minutes ago, amvet said:

After thoroughly reviewing the topic and listening to  interviews with the players who showed disrespect to the American National Anthem here are the results of my private opinion poll. 

1.  Dude's a chump.  2.  Jive turkey.  3.  I didn't vote vote but if I did it would not be fo dat honkey.  4.  The next 64 interviews were non verbal. 

I basically agree with your assessment that the reasons the football players did not stand were baseless, hyperbolic gibberish.  

 

I think you'd better go lie down.

These delusional, bigoted, stereotypical voices that you hear in your head,

are frighteningly manifesting themselves onto the printed page.

 

Unless of course, you could produce evidence of these "interviews with the players" that you "listened to."

[amvet]

13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And you probably believe you're not a racist.

I don't agree with you and you throw the race card eh?  Black people didn't vote for Trump.  Enough of the electoral college did.  Trump won and the candidate supported by the overwhelming majority of blacks lost.  Grown men who run around in skin tight pants and head butt each other for money are not going to be the most eloquent spokesmen for a cause.   

 

Blacks and minorities are trying to make it a racial or PC fight when it's not.  Your comment is a good example. 

 

Professional athletes get paid to run and jump.  Not my first choice  in judging a politician.  If I actually ever went to a football game I'd stop but the last one I attended was when the seats were free in college. 

 

I've married a black woman and an Asian woman and a white woman.  I don't really think of myself as racist. 

[boomerangutang]

                     The protests were started re; concern about inequality between black and white, particularly re; police stops.

 

                        Now the protests are widening and are against Trump.  That's good.   Trump needs to hear it from as many voices as possible.  He's roundly hated.  Vehemently.  If he was smart, he would have resigned while prez-elect.  Instead, while dragging out his miserably failing presidency, he's dragging down himself, his friends/family, his cohorts and most importantly, the country.   

 

          In some ways, that's also good.  Trump voters need to be clearly shown, what a grossly stupid decision they made when they voted for Trump.  Will they learn for the future?  Will a dog who attacks a porcupine learn to not do it in the future?   Doubtful.  Stupidity is hard to cure.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, amvet said:

I don't agree with you and you throw the race card eh?  Black people didn't vote for Trump.  Enough of the electoral college did.  Trump won and the candidate supported by the overwhelming majority of blacks lost.  Grown men who run around in skin tight pants and head butt each other for money are not going to be the most eloquent spokesmen for a cause.   

 

Blacks and minorities are trying to make it a racial or PC fight when it's not.  Your comment is a good example. 

 

Professional athletes get paid to run and jump.  Not my first choice  in judging a politician.  If I actually ever went to a football game I'd stop but the last one I attended was when the seats were free in college. 

 

I've married a black woman and an Asian woman and a white woman.  I don't really think of myself as racist. 

To take the last first, I really don't understand why anonymous posters offer alleged details of their life. Maybe you did marry a black woman maybe you didn't. Who knows?

 

But you represented black people as non voting ignoramuses. Just imagine yourself telling that "joke" to some black people and think how they might react. I doubt that they would be laughing.

"Grown men who run around in skin tight pants and head butt each other for money are not going to be the most eloquent spokesmen for a cause. "  

Engaging in stupid stereotypes. If you had a black wife, it's no wonder she left you.

 

John Cameron Urschel (born June 24, 1991) is a Canadian mathematician and retired professional American football guard and center.^[1][2] He played college football at Penn State and was drafted by the Baltimore Ravens in the fifth round of the 2014 NFL Draft. Urschel played his entire NFL career with Baltimore before announcing his retirement on July 27, 2017, at 26 years old.

Urschel has bachelor's and master's degrees in mathematics from Penn State and is pursuing a Ph.D. in mathematics from MIT.^[3][4] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Urschel

[Slip]

4 minutes ago, amvet said:

I don't agree with you and you throw the race card eh?  Black people didn't vote for Trump.  Enough of the electoral college did.  Trump won and the candidate supported by the overwhelming majority of blacks lost.  Grown men who run around in skin tight pants and head butt each other for money are not going to be the most eloquent spokesmen for a cause.   

 

Blacks and minorities are trying to make it a racial or PC fight when it's not.  Your comment is a good example. 

 

Professional athletes get paid to run and jump.  Not my first choice  in judging a politician.  If I actually ever went to a football game I'd stop but the last one I attended was when the seats were free in college. 

 

I've married a black woman and an Asian woman and a white woman. Blacks and minorities are trying to make it a racial or PC fight when it's not.

Quote

Blacks and minorities are trying to make it a racial or PC fight when it's not.

Quote

 Black people didn't vote for Trump. 

Quote

I've married a black woman and an Asian woman and a white woman. Blacks and minorities are trying to make it a racial or PC fight when it's not.

Quote

Trump won and the candidate supported by the overwhelming majority of blacks lost.

 

 

Quote

Grown men who run around in skin tight pants and head butt each other for money are not going to be the most eloquent spokesmen for a cause.  

 

 

And yet you so clearly are.  No one cares if you go to watch football.  Athletes are not politicians they are people with opinions.  Get over your white privilege.  You and your kind are soon going to be relegated to the dustbin of society.

[Credo]

2 hours ago, amvet said:

If a soldier does not stand and salute the flag at appropriate times he is put in jail.  Bet everyone stands at the Army Navy football game. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27jHNLHGzOo

 

Wow.   And your point is what?

 

[Slip]

4 minutes ago, Credo said:

Wow.   And your point is what?

 

I think his point is that everyone should act like they are in soldiers, or else.