Aussie Age Pension For Men Living In Thailand

[PATSTAN]

Hello guys, i was wandering if any Aussies are on this forum who are receiving age pension when living in Thailand.

I was told by centrelink that if I move to live in Thailand permanently my age pension will be cut completely. 

Any thoughts and experiences about this?

Any info will be highly appretiated

 

Regards to all

 

[Peterw42]

Lots of Australian pension threads already running. Lots of Australians live in Thailand on pension. There are lots of variables like how long you worked in Australia, weather you maintain "resident for taxation purposes"etc.  You dont get your pension cut completely, but a reduced rate.

 

In most cases, you can be paid Age Pension outside Australia indefinitely, although the rate of payment may vary and implications for taxation for any income or assets in Australia

 

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Peterw42

[PATSTAN]

Thank you so much Peterw42, very useful info

All the best

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, PATSTAN said:

Thank you so much Peterw42, very useful info

All the best

 

The worst thing you can do is declare to centerlink/ATO etc that you live or intend to live in Thailand, that you own a house in Thailand, have a Thai partner etc etc.

If any Gov dept asks, You live in Australia, Home is Australia, you intend to return to Australia etc. 

There is a big difference between an Australian who lives in Australia (resident for taxation purposes) and spends large amounts of time overseas, "AND" an Australian who declares that they no longer live in Australia, are not returning etc.

 

[PATSTAN]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

The worst thing you can do is declare to centerlink/ATO etc that you live or intend to live in Thailand, that you own a house in Thailand, have a Thai partner etc etc.

If any Gov dept asks, You live in Australia, Home is Australia, you intend to return to Australia etc. 

There is a big difference between an Australian who lives in Australia (resident for taxation purposes) and spends large amounts of time overseas, "AND" an Australian who declares that they no longer live in Australia, are not returning etc.

 

Thanks again Peterw42, yeah i tried talk to them a few times but their answers are very fishy and confusing, laws are changing every second month. I lived in Hua Hin for 8 years but return home to lodge application for aged pension but by new laws must wait another 6 months to start receiving pension. The info you provided worth gold.

[Aussieroaming]

I'm younger than some but I've made the assumption that I will never be entitled to an Australian pension. I paid tax in Australia until i was 47 (54 now) and a lot of it at a high rate due to overseas work. My understanding is that i would have to return to Aust for 2 years to re-qualify for a residency and hence a pension once i hit the great pension age, so i decided to forego the experience.

[PATSTAN]

1 hour ago, Aussieroaming said:

I'm younger than some but I've made the assumption that I will never be entitled to an Australian pension. I paid tax in Australia until i was 47 (54 now) and a lot of it at a high rate due to overseas work. My understanding is that i would have to return to Aust for 2 years to re-qualify for a residency and hence a pension once i hit the great pension age, so i decided to forego the experience.

Thanks Mate, well as i mentioned earlier I spend 8 years in Thailand and returned home a few months ago to see what will happen.

They didn't mention anything about I didn't live in Australia for that period, they just said I can lodge application 3 months before

I'm 65.5. I think even a few hundred buks won't bother us living there to have a nice dinner with family once or twice a month.

Worth trying if we gonna live another 50 years hahaha...

Anyway, I will lodge application mid  December, if you interested you can  PM me so I'll let you know if its worth trying.

If they reject I will shake your hand somewhere in Isaan early next year. Cheers Mate.

[BEVUP]

On 10/2/2017 at 9:42 AM, Peterw42 said:

 

The worst thing you can do is declare to centerlink/ATO etc that you live or intend to live in Thailand, that you own a house in Thailand, have a Thai partner etc etc.

If any Gov dept asks, You live in Australia, Home is Australia, you intend to return to Australia etc. 

There is a big difference between an Australian who lives in Australia (resident for taxation purposes) and spends large amounts of time overseas, "AND" an Australian who declares that they no longer live in Australia, are not returning etc.

 

So what about those people that actually get their pension sent to a Thai account ?

& if I was to have no fixed address (reside with a family member ), As I'm always back & forth

So I guess C/L would not be able to track your Passport Info (especially if it has a marriage visa in it ), 

I tell Auss nothing about my family as that's the way I like it, but have taken wife & son to Auss a few times

I just mention this as we all know that the Auss government has every department linked with computers & microscopes

[PATSTAN]

16 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So what about those people that actually get their pension sent to a Thai account ?

& if I was to have no fixed address (reside with a family member ), As I'm always back & forth

So I guess C/L would not be able to track your Passport Info (especially if it has a marriage visa in it ), 

I tell Auss nothing about my family as that's the way I like it, but have taken wife & son to Auss a few times

I just mention this as we all know that the Auss government has every department linked with computers & microscopes

Good point BEVUP, i also new a couple of guys they used to receive money direct to thai account, would be interesting to know from them

[oxymoron]

This subject has been done to death in a thread Aussie OAP started in around 2007 and having comment from past and existing Centrelink people.

Do a search.

I read it for interest as I will never get anything from the Australian Gov. and personally think all welfare is BS.

But one common theme seems to be "International pensions" are handled by one central Centrelink Office and that is/was based in Hobart Tasmania. These people are the only ones that have been able to provide other forum guys with real and sensible personal case study information.

The detail including phone numbers of this International office are in the thread I mentioned earlier.

[PATSTAN]

8 minutes ago, oxymoron said:

This subject has been done to death in a thread Aussie OAP started in around 2007 and having comment from past and existing Centrelink people.

Do a search.

I read it for interest as I will never get anything from the Australian Gov. and personally think all welfare is BS.

But one common theme seems to be "International pensions" are handled by one central Centrelink Office and that is/was based in Hobart Tasmania. These people are the only ones that have been able to provide other forum guys with real and sensible personal case study information.

The detail including phone numbers of this International office are in the thread I mentioned earlier.

Oh well if you mentioned this thread started 10 years ago so govrnmets changing and laws changing every second month they not sure themselfs, i am here and every time they sing different songs.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, PATSTAN said:

Oh well if you mentioned this thread started 10 years ago so govrnmets changing and laws changing every second month they not sure themselfs, i am here and every time they sing different songs.

 

All the background & criteria info you require is available online; refer link below. The criteria / rules do not change "every few months" as require approval through the parliamentary budget / legislation process. It is unhelpful to make statements that do not reflect reality and such statements have previously caused quite a lot of confusion.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension

 

As a member stated above, Centrelink International Services are the best people to contact regards Age Pension Portability payments and so on....

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/international-services

Edited October 4, 2017 by simple1

[4MyEgo]

On 02/10/2017 at 1:52 PM, PATSTAN said:

Thanks again Peterw42, yeah i tried talk to them a few times but their answers are very fishy and confusing, laws are changing every second month. I lived in Hua Hin for 8 years but return home to lodge application for aged pension but by new laws must wait another 6 months to start receiving pension. The info you provided worth gold.

 

PATSTAN for what its worth, I have been all over this OAP entitlement as a non resident for a while and as someone mentioned, there is some confusion out there, so I will try not to bust our bubble while you listen to what you may not want to hear, sometimes better to get it from someone outside of CentreLink, i.e. any government employee is only as good as their knowledge is, and a lot of  government departments throw their people into the deep end, not fully knowing what they are talking about, i.e. can I place you on hold for a moment, ever wondered why.

 

Point blank, if you have been living in Hua Hin for the past 8 years, you would be considered a non resident and if you think they won;t know any different, trust me, as soon as you lodge your application, they will be searching the border controls data base to see when you exited the country and when you returned to the country, "boom" welcome to the world of technology, you will then hear the words, ah sorry Mr tax payer of X amount of years, your application is accepted as a non resident, you will receive the OAP, however if you leave the country within 2 years, we will cancel it.

 

Feel free to start your own research, but please don;t take someone's word for it, I have covered this over days, weeks, months on end, there is no simpler answer, unless you reside in Australia as an Australian resident at least two years prior to being approved to receive the OAP, then you will get a rude awakening, i.e. a 2 year prison term, having to wait for you OAP to become portable to wherever you want to live.

 

If you are in Oz and can work, start saving our coins up to the period you are approved, after you receive the OAP, just sit it out, and when your 2 years is up, check with them if you can go for a long holiday overseas, say for a year, or so and what do they need to know, never tell them you are leaving for good, because you don;t know how they can react, although from what I have read, as long as you do your time, they can't stop you.

 

Hope that clears things up, as sometimes bad news is never good news, but best know what your up against, that way you won;t get let down.

 

I am 10 years off and have a few plans, i.e. unloading assets 5 years before hand, divorcing my Mrs, (only a piece of paper) as far as we are concerned, etc, etc, and will be back in the country a couple of years before hand to put my hand out, wife will also follow shortly after and she has always used her surname, linking her up on border control might be a little more difficult, and if they say, ok your divorced, but why did your wife come back a week after you, my response would be, well that's news to me, she is probably looking for me, or has come back to work because I don;t have any money left, and as we are divorced as per the papers you are holding and I don't want anything to do with her, I have returned here to live and be granted my pension for the 39 years of tax that I have paid.

 

Well that is my plan, you don;t think I would let all the others fleece the system that haven't paid a cent in taxes, farrrk that, oy !

 

Here is the reality, but no mention in the article of the two year wait for this guy, surprise, surprise as Gomer Pyle would say, the article is below the clip:

 

 

 http://www.smh.com.au/national/struggling-pensioners-opt-to-leave-australia-for-a-cheaper-country-20140607-39pui.html

Edited October 4, 2017 by 4MyEgo
Article and clip inserted

[dinga]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Feel free to start your own research, but please don;t take someone's word for it, I have covered this over days, weeks, months on end, there is no simpler answer, unless you reside in Australia as an Australian resident at least two years prior to being approved to receive the OAP, then you will get a rude awakening, i.e. a 2 year prison term, having to wait for you OAP to become portable to wherever you want to live.

 

 

 

Appreciate your input, but think there is one aspect that needs to be clarified (appreciate your thoughts on this)  i.e.

 

*  CL material states that, on the day you submit your OAP claim, you must be (a) an Australian resident; and (b) be physically present in Australia.  There is no 2 year requirement to be regarded as a 'resident' - although there are many other factors CL can consider when making this judgement (and there is recourse to appeal to the Ombudsman in the event of an unfair ruling).  

*  The 2 year waiting period applies if you are NOT a resident when you apply 

 

Is the above your view?

[4MyEgo]

12 minutes ago, dinga said:

Appreciate your input, but think there is one aspect that needs to be clarified (appreciate your thoughts on this)  i.e.

 

*  CL material states that, on the day you submit your OAP claim, you must be (a) an Australian resident; and (b) be physically present in Australia.  There is no 2 year requirement to be regarded as a 'resident' - although there are many other factors CL can consider when making this judgement (and there is recourse to appeal to the Ombudsman in the event of an unfair ruling).  

*  The 2 year waiting period applies if you are NOT a resident when you apply 

 

Is the above your view?

 

Your more than welcome, A) &  are absolutely correct, however in my understanding, there is a requirement to be regarded as a 'resident" before you can have your pension become portable, if applying for it and being deemed a non resident at the time by C/L, you will have the 2 year jail term handed out on portability of your pension, i.e. they will pay you in Australia for the 2 years, but if you leave, it will cease.

 

If you are deemed a 'resident' you can leave and it is portable, i.e. if you are in fact a 'resident' on the other hand if you are deemed a non resident of Australia as mentioned above, then you cannot have your pension taken overseas for 2 years once you reach the OAP age, and that means, they will only allow portability, post the 2 years, unless you returned prior and re-established your residency, now how you can do that and convince them of that under two years, establishing a time-frame in Australia that will suit them, i.e. evidence of long time rental, drivers licence, car, membership of clubs etc etc.

 

I dare ask, are you holding is Ace of spades up your sleeve.

 

Care to elaborate how one can re-establish their residency in a short period of time, having lived in another country for over 183 days and not having kept their residency status ?

[DavisH]

7 hours ago, BEVUP said:

So what about those people that actually get their pension sent to a Thai account ?

& if I was to have no fixed address (reside with a family member ), As I'm always back & forth

So I guess C/L would not be able to track your Passport Info (especially if it has a marriage visa in it ), 

I tell Auss nothing about my family as that's the way I like it, but have taken wife & son to Auss a few times

I just mention this as we all know that the Auss government has every department linked with computers & microscopes

When my mother came to visit LoS a few years ago, we made a plan to extend her stay a bit. When I contacted Social security, they were already aware of our change in plans. If you go back to OZ after 6 weeks rather than 4 weeks, they will know this. Of course you should always tell Soc Sec your travel plans and whereabouts. Some benefits cut off after a certain time. 

[4MyEgo]

40 minutes ago, dinga said:

Appreciate your input, but think there is one aspect that needs to be clarified (appreciate your thoughts on this)  i.e.

 

*  CL material states that, on the day you submit your OAP claim, you must be (a) an Australian resident; and (b) be physically present in Australia.  There is no 2 year requirement to be regarded as a 'resident' - although there are many other factors CL can consider when making this judgement (and there is recourse to appeal to the Ombudsman in the event of an unfair ruling).  

*  The 2 year waiting period applies if you are NOT a resident when you apply 

 

Is the above your view?

 

Here is the law on the 2 years, if you know of something different please let us know.

 

SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 - SECT 1220
No portability where claim based on short residence

(1) If:

(a) a person is an Australian resident; and

(b) the person ceases to be an Australian resident; and

(c) the person again becomes an Australian resident; and

(d) within the period of 2 years after the person again becomes an Australian resident, the person is granted, or is transferred to:

(i) an age pension; or

(ii) a disability support pension; or

(iii) a bereavement allowance; and

(e) after the pension or allowance is granted, or the person is transferred to the pension or allowance, as the case may be, but before the end of that period of 2 years, the person leaves Australia; and

(f) financial assistance is not payable in respect of the person's absence from Australia under the Medical Treatment Overseas Program administered by the Minister who administers the National Health Act 1953 ;

a pension or allowance based on that claim is not payable to the person during any period during which the person is outside Australia.

(2) If:

(a) a person resides in an area that is, at the time of residence, an external Territory; and

(b) the person has never before resided in Australia; and

(c) the person then arrives in Australia; and

(d) within the period of 2 years after the person arrives in Australia, the person is granted, or is transferred to:

(i) an age pension; or

(ii) a disability support pension; or

(iii) a bereavement allowance; and

(e) after the pension or allowance is granted, or the person is transferred to the pension or allowance, as the case may be, but before the end of that period of 2 years, the person leaves Australia; and

(f) financial assistance is not payable in respect of the person's absence from Australia under the Medical Treatment Overseas Program administered by the Minister who administers the National Health Act 1953 ;

a pension or allowance based on that claim is not payable to the person during any period during which the person is outside Australia.

(4) For the purposes of the application of this section in relation to a particular social security payment, a person who has a qualifying residence exemption for that payment is taken:

(a) to be an Australian resident; or

(b) to reside in an area that is, at the time of residence, an external Territory;

as the context requires.


 

[4MyEgo]

On 02/10/2017 at 12:25 PM, PATSTAN said:

Hello guys, i was wandering if any Aussies are on this forum who are receiving age pension when living in Thailand.

I was told by centrelink that if I move to live in Thailand permanently my age pension will be cut completely. 

Any thoughts and experiences about this?

Any info will be highly appretiated

 

Regards to all

 

 

Something further to add:

 

Here's the law:

SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 - SECT 1220

No portability where claim based on short residence

(1) If:

(a) a person is an Australian resident; and

(b) the person ceases to be an Australian resident; and

(c) the person again becomes an Australian resident; and

(d) within the period of 2 years after the person again becomes an Australian resident, the person is granted, or is transferred to:

(i) an age pension; or

(ii) a disability support pension; or

(iii) a bereavement allowance; and

(e) after the pension or allowance is granted, or the person is transferred to the pension or allowance, as the case may be, but before the end of that period of 2 years, the person leaves Australia; and

(f) financial assistance is not payable in respect of the person's absence from Australia under the Medical Treatment Overseas Program administered by the Minister who administers the National Health Act 1953 ;

a pension or allowance based on that claim is not payable to the person during any period during which the person is outside Australia.

(2) If:

(a) a person resides in an area that is, at the time of residence, an external Territory; and

(b) the person has never before resided in Australia; and

(c) the person then arrives in Australia; and

(d) within the period of 2 years after the person arrives in Australia, the person is granted, or is transferred to:

(i) an age pension; or

(ii) a disability support pension; or

(iii) a bereavement allowance; and

(e) after the pension or allowance is granted, or the person is transferred to the pension or allowance, as the case may be, but before the end of that period of 2 years, the person leaves Australia; and

(f) financial assistance is not payable in respect of the person's absence from Australia under the Medical Treatment Overseas Program administered by the Minister who administers the National Health Act 1953 ;

a pension or allowance based on that claim is not payable to the person during any period during which the person is outside Australia.

(4) For the purposes of the application of this section in relation to a particular social security payment, a person who has a qualifying residence exemption for that payment is taken:

(a) to be an Australian resident; or

(b) to reside in an area that is, at the time of residence, an external Territory;

as the context requires.


 

[PATSTAN]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

All the background & criteria info you require is available online; refer link below. The criteria / rules do not change "every few months" as require approval through the parliamentary budget / legislation process. It is unhelpful to make statements that do not reflect reality and such statements have previously caused quite a lot of confusion.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension

 

As a member stated above, Centrelink International Services are the best people to contact regards Age Pension Portability payments and so on....

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/international-services

Simple1 thanks a lot for useful links, very important! 

Best regards

 

P.S. But actually they are the same Centrelink just different department...Working hand by hand....Thanks

Edited October 4, 2017 by PATSTAN

[simple1]

2 hours ago, PATSTAN said:

Simple1 thanks a lot for useful links, very important! 

Best regards

 

P.S. But actually they are the same Centrelink just different department...Working hand by hand....Thanks

 

I know, but the usual Centrelink staff one deals with day to day often are unaware of the detail of Age Pension, it's why best to contact Centrelink International regards payment portability, they know the detail. As a tip. the best number for BAU questions regards Age Pension is 132 300

[PATSTAN]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

I know, but the usual Centrelink staff one deals with day to day often are unaware of the detail of Age Pension, it's why best to contact Centrelink International regards payment portability, they know the detail. As a tip. the best number for BAU questions regards Age Pension is 132 300

Thanks a lot, I appretiate

[dinga]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I dare ask, are you holding is Ace of spades up your sleeve.

 

Care to elaborate how one can re-establish their residency in a short period of time, having lived in another country for over 183 days and not having kept their residency status ?

5555555 - no Ace, unfortunately and also no grand plan at this stage.  Just considering possibilities - and trying  to benefit from the wisdom of others

 

BRs

[PATSTAN]

4 minutes ago, dinga said:

5555555 - no Ace, unfortunately and also no grand plan at this stage.  Just considering possibilities - and trying  to benefit from the wisdom of others

 

BRs

Any new ideas, suggestions boys?

[4MyEgo]

16 hours ago, PATSTAN said:

Any new ideas, suggestions boys?

The way I see it, is that there are only two ways around it as the SOCIAL SECURITY ACT 1991 - SECT 1220

makes it hard to get around it, unless your prepared to appeal any negative handed down by CentreLink, and lets not forget, its all about budgets and targets as these government organisations are set up today to put more dollars back into the system for others, i.e. retired xpats are a loss to the Australian earning system, e.g. money goes out of the country.

 

Option one is to return 2 years before hand, re-establish your residency somewhere cheap enough to rent a property in your name, and provide them with a copy of the lease and utility bills when applying for the OAP, working for the 2 years prior will also assist if you can find a job, alternatively you can try and go on something called new start from what I have read on this post somewhere in the 115 pages plus, in other words (the dole), but I think you would have to show you are looking for work, at least 20 times a month ?

 

The other option is you return just on the OAP qualifying age and apply, when approved as a non resident, get you pension and put that towards your rent and with what your left with, live off canned dog food, which reminds me of that joke, "what's invisible in a Woolworth's supermarket shopping isle and smells like dog food ?

 

Answer: A pensions fart 555

 

In the meantime we will all wait to see who's plan is best suited, like I said, I have a wife, kids, and assets, suffice to say, I have to unload assets 5 years prior, and divorce the Mrs at least 5 years before hand to coincide with the plan, i.e. she ripped me hard, and I hung around for as long as I could to see the kids at the school from time to time and lived in a cheap rental place, (copy of made up lease) but in the end ran out of money and have had to return, copy of (closed bank account) sob sob.

 

Anyway, that's my plan to try and get back some of the 39 years worth of taxes that I contributed into the system, and if others who haven't had to work one day are entitled to it, I think I am on the que long before them, regardless of my assets, that I earned off of my own bat oy !

 

Who knows, by then I might be dead and cremated, or too old to travel 555

Edited October 5, 2017 by 4MyEgo
Adding words

[simple1]

On 05/10/2017 at 1:40 PM, 4MyEgo said:

you can try and go on something called new start from what I have read on this post somewhere in the 115 pages plus, in other words (the dole), but I think you would have to show you are looking for work, at least 20 times a month ?

This is what I did, returned to Oz & went on Newstart three months prior to claiming Age Pension. Over 55, Newstart currently permits 15 hours a week volunteer work. e.g. Coast Guard or some such activity and no need to be a "job seeker". Also easy to switch from Newstart to Age Pension. However, not long after arriving back in Oz was diagnosed with aggressive cancer, whilst recovered, cannot afford to live in Thailand due to cost of ongoing medical treatment, just visit once a year - swings and roundabouts....

Edited October 6, 2017 by simple1

[4MyEgo]

27 minutes ago, simple1 said:

This is what I did, returned to Oz & went on Newstart three months prior to claiming Age Pension. Over 55, Newstart currently permits 15 hours a week volunteer work. e.g. Coast Guard or some such activity and no need to be a "job seeker". Also easy to switch from Newstart to Age Pension. However, not long after arriving back in Oz was diagnosed with aggressive cancer, whilst recovered, cannot afford to live in Thailand due to cost of ongoing medical treatment, just visit once a year - swings and roundabouts....

 

Thanks for the heads up, and hope it all works out for you, so as to return to LOS one day 555

[PATSTAN]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

This is what I did, returned to Oz & went on Newstart three months prior to claiming Age Pension. Over 55, Newstart currently permits 15 hours a week volunteer work. e.g. Coast Guard or some such activity and no need to be a "job seeker". Also easy to switch from Newstart to Age Pension. However, not long after arriving back in Oz was diagnosed with aggressive cancer, whilst recovered, cannot afford to live in Thailand due to cost of ongoing medical treatment, just visit once a year - swings and roundabouts....

Thanks mate, get well and stay strong, take  turmeric and ginger in the morning, don't trust pharmas, only natural will do good! Trust me, all  the best!

[kevvy]

I am not going back to re qualify for th OAP . I have a great life here in Chiang Rai . Leave this happiness to go back to the nanny state for 2 years . no way mate ...

 

[PATSTAN]

11 hours ago, kevvy said:

I am not going back to re qualify for th OAP . I have a great life here in Chiang Rai . Leave this happiness to go back to the nanny state for 2 years . no way mate ...

 

Thanks mate, good on you...I am confused too and thinking if its worth it but as long as I'm here maybe worth trying, just a few months left...I had good life too compare with here and can't wait to go back...

[kevvy]

8 hours ago, PATSTAN said:

Thanks mate, good on you...I am confused too and thinking if its worth it but as long as I'm here maybe worth trying, just a few months left...I had good life too compare with here and can't wait to go back...

Sorry about your illness mate . Australia does have better hospital than here. In my experience.

good luck