Worker rights

[Aditi Sharma]

Hi,

 

I wish to know if non-Thai nationals working have rights, basically I want to know how they can seek redress if they dont get paid at the end of the month. And, ahem, I wish to know if there such a thing as a minimum wage. I will have more questions if there is anybody willing to answer or if I could ask. 

[Rc2702]

Not sure aditI but as you are a crusader, might you try to get KFC bring back the blacklist burger? 

[Aditi Sharma]

13 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

Not sure aditI but as you are a crusader, might you try to get KFC bring back the blacklist burger? 

555, you remember me from the topic I started there. Such a thing as the blacklist burger or you are saying burger's blacklisted?

[lkn]

20 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

And, ahem, I wish to know if there such a thing as a minimum wage. I will have more questions if there is anybody willing to answer or if I could ask

Depending on your nationality and profession, there is a minimum income requirement for getting a work permit.

 

[Aditi Sharma]

29 minutes ago, lkn said:

Depending on your nationality and profession, there is a minimum income requirement for getting a work permit.

 

Have you come across cases where Indian workers haven't got their monthly due and being thus left high and dry have had to return without avail? Will the Thai authorities if brought to their urgent notice? Can you direct me to a place where employee rights especially of expats in Thailand are discussed? 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
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[Rc2702]

On 07/10/2017 at 6:24 AM, Aditi Sharma said:

555, you remember me from the topic I started there. Such a thing as the blacklist burger or you are saying burger's blacklisted?

There was a tasty burger KFC done a promotion with. The bun of the burger was black and the burger was a tasty one.

[Familyonthemove]

The Labour Office can help with minimum wage.  The are more used to taking foreign companies to court to get better payouts for Thai workers, but in theory it does work the other way too.

[blackcab]

Foreign employees have the same rights as Thai employees. Employment legislation doesn't have one section for Thai people and another for foreigners.

 

If an employee has a grievance they can petition the Labour Court.

[Aditi Sharma]

3 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

There was a tasty burger KFC done a promotion with. The bun of the burger was black and the burger was a tasty one.

Hey buddy, am a foodie like you. But am vegetarian. Why did they withdraw it? I couldnt find info on the Net. Can you tell me why? 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
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[Aditi Sharma]

Do foreign workers too get a payslip? What if my employer refuses to give me a payslip? How do foreign workers deal with their employment related issues in Thailand? Do they just grin and bear them? Are foreign workers' resented at the workplace? Do they only work in senior positions? What kind of competition do they get from local Thais.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
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[blackcab]

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Do foreign workers too get a payslip? What if my employer refuses to give me a payslip? How do foreign workers deal with their employment related issues in Thailand? 

 

Not everyone in Thailand gets a payslip. I don't, for example.

 

All foreigners should have an employment contract. You must submit one as part if the work permit application process.

 

On this basis you must know your salary. Social Fund is 5 percent of salary, up to a maximum deduction of 750 baht per month. Income tax can be easily calculated.

 

Other legal deductions are few and far between.

[Aditi Sharma]

1 minute ago, blackcab said:

 

Not everyone in Thailand gets a payslip. I don't, for example.

 

All foreigners should have an employment contract. You must submit one as part if the work permit application process.

 

On this basis you must know your salary. Social Fund is 5 percent of salary, up to a maximum deduction of 750 baht per month. Income tax can be easily calculated.

 

Other legal deductions are few and far between.

You dont mind that you dont get a payslip? Is your pay directly credited to your bank account. If you change jobs, is your new employer not going to ask to see your payslips? 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
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[blackcab]

11 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

You dont mind that you dont get a payslip? Is your pay directly credited to your bank account. If you change jobs, is your new employer not going to ask to see your payslips? 

I don't mind.

 

Yes, direct credit to my bank account.

 

My payslips/salary details are my business, not anyone else's. I've worked on 3 different continents so far, and I've never been asked to show my payslips to a new employer. If I was asked I would tell the employer exactly what I have said here: it's none of their business.

[Aditi Sharma]

9 hours ago, blackcab said:

I don't mind.

 

Yes, direct credit to my bank account.

 

My payslips/salary details are my business, not anyone else's. I've worked on 3 different continents so far, and I've never been asked to show my payslips to a new employer. If I was asked I would tell the employer exactly what I have said here: it's none of their business.

Wow! In India they give you a raise of at least 20% over and above your last drawn salary. And they ask for the last three payslips as proof. 

[Aditi Sharma]

Why have western governments not negotiated better working rights for their nationals in Thailand does not make sense to me. Makes me think farangs dont complain much because of the women.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Why have western governments not negotiated better working rights for their nationals in Thailand does not make sense to me. Makes me think farangs dont complain much because of the women.

 

Most people would choose to work in a country where wages were high, not low.

 

Why would a British builder want to work in Thailand for less than 7 pounds per day?

 

Not many Westerners earn the same or more in Thailand than they would in the West. Those that do generally work for multinational companies.

[lkn]

19 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Why have western governments not negotiated better working rights for their nationals in Thailand does not make sense to me. Makes me think farangs dont complain much because of the women.

You think the Thai government cares if Angela Merkel tells them to have Thai companies pay Germans more? Or you think Germans want to pay tax to have their government spend resources fighting for labour rights of nationals who have left Germany (and may not even pay tax in Germany)?

 

And Westerners working in Thailand (except those teaching English) actually do get pretty good salaries compared to the average Thai.

 

Furthermore, workers’ rights in Western countries are in large part due to unionizing, and you do see some Western labour unions active in South East Asia and other regions with poor labour conditions, but it is not to fight for their own nationals, it’s to help build up local labour unions (you can argue that indirectly it benefits their own members back home, so in that sense, it is to protect the interest of their members, but there is also a humanitarian aspect to this).

 

[Aditi Sharma]

Is there a bar to expats voicing their work woes in public forums? At least one South African teacher said she got a raw deal and was leaving. She lost her passport and overstayed for 7 months. 

[Aditi Sharma]

Are there no unions in Thailand? Who represents workers to the management?

[blackcab]

29 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Are there no unions in Thailand? Who represents workers to the management?

 

There is a high degree of indoctrination in Thailand where people of a lower status are taught to respect people of a higher status. This is part of Thai culture.

 

How do you think a union fits in with Thai culture?

[Aditi Sharma]

18 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

There is a high degree of indoctrination in Thailand where people of a lower status are taught to respect people of a higher status. This is part of Thai culture.

 

How do you think a union fits in with Thai culture?

I think it doesnt. But when you have an international workforce, the need for a union would be felt. Personally I dont believe in unions. Are you suggesting that there was no exploitation of Thai workers? If there was and if you think unions could not address them, who do you think can. I hope you do realise I am not throwing these questions bluntly enough directly at you:-)

[blackcab]

I don't know if there is exploitation of Thai workers or not. People who have highlighted the exploitation of foreign workers have been charged with multiple criminal defamation lawsuits and have ended up having to leave the country permanently.

 

You have to understand that defamation is a criminal matter in Thailand, and that even saying something that is completely accurate and true can result in a conviction with the possibility of imprisonment.

 

The Thai Labour Court is very active and is an organisation that resolves disputes between employers and employees. In general, they favour the employee.

[Aditi Sharma]

2 hours ago, blackcab said:

You have to understand that defamation is a criminal matter in Thailand, and that even saying something that is completely accurate and true can result in a conviction with the possibility of imprisonment.

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on this point. I am all ears ( eyes as it happens).Thanks!

[Aditi Sharma]

Who does the employee contact first when she is abused by her employer in any way? Can she go to the police and report the employer to them?

What are the attendant consequences for her as she fights for her rights?

How expensive is it to engage a lawyer? Are there social organisations in Thailand who help abused employees?

 

 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on this point. I am all ears ( eyes as it happens).Thanks!

 

It's very simple. In Thailand, defamation is a criminal offense that is caused when one person causes another person loss by making a public statement.

 

Examples might be:

 

1. Supermarket X sold me rotten meat.

 

2. Woman Y has sex with people in exchange for payment.

 

3. I purchased a vehicle from dealer

Z. They sold it to me in a dangerous, unroadworthy condition.

 

This offense is the same in many parts of the world. What makes Thailand different is that truth is not a defense.

 

Even if you can absolutely prove what you said is true, and you are backed by the best experts in the world, it doesn't matter.

 

If your actions cause someone or a company any loss (normally loss of income) you are guilty. That's it.

 

As many people broadcast their lives online, in Thailand this charge often comes with charges under the Computer Crime Act.

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Who does the employee contact first when she is abused by her employer in any way? Can she go to the police and report the employer to them?

What are the attendant consequences for her as she fights for her rights?

How expensive is it to engage a lawyer? Are there social organisations in Thailand who help abused employees?

 

I really don't know what you mean by abuse.

 

I think you need to Google "Andy Hall Thailand" and have a very good read about what happened to him.

[Aditi Sharma]

25 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

It's very simple. In Thailand, defamation is a criminal offense that is caused when one person causes another person loss by making a public statement.

 

Examples might be:

 

1. Supermarket X sold me rotten meat.

 

2. Woman Y has sex with people in exchange for payment.

 

3. I purchased a vehicle from dealer

Z. They sold it to me in a dangerous, unroadworthy condition.

 

This offense is the same in many parts of the world. What makes Thailand different is that truth is not a defense.

 

Even if you can absolutely prove what you said is true, and you are backed by the best experts in the world, it doesn't matter.

 

If your actions cause someone or a company any loss (normally loss of income) you are guilty. That's it.

 

As many people broadcast their lives online, in Thailand this charge often comes with charges under the Computer Crime Act.

Thanks for your time, much appreciated! And I will read up on Andy.

 

 

[lkn]

7 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Thanks for your time, much appreciated! And I will read up on Andy.

Here’s some more for you to read, working conditions on some of the Thai fishing boats: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/27/world/outlaw-ocean-thailand-fishing-sea-slaves-pets.html

 

And here’s one about what you risk if you make too much noise in Thailand: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-king-insult/thai-activist-jailed-for-two-and-a-half-years-for-posting-bbc-article-idUSKCN1AV0YN

[Aditi Sharma]

9 hours ago, lkn said:

Here’s some more for you to read, working conditions on some of the Thai fishing boats: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/27/world/outlaw-ocean-thailand-fishing-sea-slaves-pets.html

 

And here’s one about what you risk if you make too much noise in Thailand: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-king-insult/thai-activist-jailed-for-two-and-a-half-years-for-posting-bbc-article-idUSKCN1AV0YN

Very depressing all this. But I am more interested in understanding what rights workers had and how they can thrive within them.