Uncontrollable Thai child

[Kenny202]

Been going out with a Thai school teacher for around 3 months. Truly wonderful lady. Polite, respectful, caring. Her 4yo child on the other hand is the exact opposite. By nature she's not a particularly bad kid. Just she's been given no boundaries at all. For example in 7 /11. Kid grabbing armfuls of candy and toys after she's already been eating sugar all day. "Why did you buy her that?" If I don't she will scream. Kid lays on the sofa all day watching cartoons (on my TV). Ordering me or the GF to change the channel at her whim. Orders her mother to bring her things that are in an arms reach when her mother has to get up and walk ten paces to get it. Then tosses whatever it is she has eaten on the floor after finishing with it. Talks over the top of anybody speaking with her mother and the mother acknowledges her. She wants something she will ask rudely 15 times before her mother can even say yes or no. Just on and on all day. Clearly the mothers acceptance of the behaviour is the problem. Even in the car she stands up in the rear or leans over the centre console blocking rear mirrors etc. Ive described to her mother in graphic detail of what will happen to the child if we have an accident. We've all seen a lot worse of course with kids and babies on motorbikes here but at least maybe the parents don't have any choice. I have seat belts.

 

I've really tried to be gentle with her, not not picking all the time...there's nothing worse than people giving you free advice on your kids... and I'm in no way jealous of the child but at times it can be unbearable. We both sat on the sofa together to watch TV the other night after a long day. Firstly the kid is taking up 80% of the sofa and refusing to move. We're squashed up one end. First drama because we want to change the channel. The mothers sort of telling the kid not to complain but I can see she would rather just leave the cartoons on and avoid a problem. Next thing the kid is kicking her mother telling her she doesn't want me and the mother to sit together....and her mother looks at me and relays the information like I should sit on the floor or something. (It's my home). So that was it for me. Didn't do my block or anything but let her know it wasn't on. No way I could live like that in the future. I told her worse than anything she was doing the kid harm. She would grow up selfish and nasty and no one will be able to live with her. We nearly split over it actually. 

 

So we've talked quite a bit about it and firstly she told me she had spoken to her Thai friends with children and their kids are the same. I think what woke her up was that the child was meant to go to and stay at the grandmothers for a month over the holidays. 2 days was enough for the grandmother.

She has since though acknowledged there is a problem and she wants to try and teach the kid which is great. I have read many similar stories of Thais and irresponsible (or lazy?) parenting, and lets face it it is not isolated to Thailand either. Ive lived in villages and they don't treat their kids like that in fact it appeared to me in many families the kids were the last on the priority list. But even the better families wouldn't allow their kids to hit and adult or answer back etc.

 

Is would appear to me to be something more common in middle to upper class Thai families...and of a newer generation. Is it a case of the last generation was hard on their kids and this generation does the opposite? I asked my GF what her parents were like because she has obviously been raised very well and she said her mother gave her the stick as often as it was needed. 

 

Anyone been through a similar thing or have any advice would be much appreciated. I do want a future with this girl and as I said I don't believe the kid is bad by nature, in fact to me with a small change in the mothers handling of the child I think easy fixed. I told her if it were me and she wants something she can't have or can't do...simply tell her no, tell her why the answer is no and then not engage with her. If she wants to throw a tantrum or sulk let her. Ignore it

[BEVUP]

Don't want to sound cruel but this is why it's difficult taking on a relationship where there is baggage involved

It seems as though the mother hasn't jumped on the problem from day one & this is going to be a big problem ( it's not as though it's just like dealing with money issues where that can be sorted easily )

I would also go as far as saying that you are in the position of playing second fiddle & are having to take a back seat (this will be the end of your relationship )

[aircooledflat4]

46 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Even in the car she stands up in the rear or leans over the centre console blocking rear mirrors etc.

You really oughta be gettin’ that kid buckled down with a seat belt OP... don’t even start the car until that’s squared away. You should know better mate. Start setting some absolutes beginning with this one and build from there. Will take a load off your GF I’ll give you the drum.

[BEVUP]

2 minutes ago, aircooledflat4 said:

You really oughta be gettin’ that kid buckled down with a seat belt OP... don’t even start the car until that’s squared away. You should know better mate. Start setting some absolutes beginning with this one and build from there. Will take a load off your GF I’ll give you the drum.

I would say he's trying in the sense to change things through the mother but she has just let it go on to long & as the OP mentioned he's not even feeling comfortable in his own house (that he paid for ) with a 4 yr old ruling the roost (had the feeling he was going to have to sit on the floor )

[Jip99]

 

I would be out, sorry.

 

Not prepared to take on the baggage and live an environment like that.

 

 

If you are that smitten you could consider a relationship where the kid plays no part in it - or at best a minimal part in it, on your terms,

[Orton Rd]

Hopeless situation you cannot correct it, put up with it or get out of it.

[Gulfsailor]

When I met my girlfriend she had a 2yr old daughter living with her grandparents since 6 months. Nice and smart kid but spoilt rotten during that short time. Very similar to the kid in the OP's story. Anyway after 2 years of dating we decided to raise the kid. So a (by then) obnoxious 4yr old entered our lives. I had her (more or less) back to normal within a month. 

Rule no1: no = no. Never buckle or give in to tantrums, crying, screaming or whatever the kid tries. When you made your mind up, stick to it. It becomes easier very quickly. But give in once and you are back to square one. 

Rule no2: touch anything in the shop and we won't buy it. Period. No exception. If she wants something, she can ask, or during the first few months and not speaking English much yet, point. 

Rule no3: ignore bad behavior and reward good behavior. Only give attention when the kid is good. Never argue, fight or explain your decision until the kid is old enough to understand or debate at a certain level. 

Rule no4: Be around. A lot. Show that you are someone she can depend on. 

[Kenny202]

6 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

When I met my girlfriend she had a 2yr old daughter living with her grandparents since 6 months. Nice and smart kid but spoilt rotten during that short time. Very similar to the kid in the OP's story. Anyway after 2 years of dating we decided to raise the kid. So a (by then) obnoxious 4yr old entered our lives. I had her (more or less) back to normal within a month. 

Rule no1: no = no. Never buckle or give in to tantrums, crying, screaming or whatever the kid tries. When you made your mind up, stick to it. It becomes easier very quickly. But give in once and you are back to square one. 

Rule no2: touch anything in the shop and we won't buy it. Period. No exception. If she wants something, she can ask, or during the first few months and not speaking English much yet, point. 

Rule no3: ignore bad behavior and reward good behavior. Only give attention when the kid is good. Never argue, fight or explain your decision until the kid is old enough to understand or debate at a certain level. 

Rule no4: Be around. A lot. Show that you are someone she can depend on. 

Very good advice. Problem really is teaching the mum not the kid. I mean the kid has no real control unless you let her. When I admonish her now or tell her no you can see she really doesn't understand. She just hasn't dealt with that before. She really believes she is the centre of the universe.

 

I'm understanding to a point. In her normal home she has 3 other kids to run around and play with so I am mindful she doesn't have the same at my home and hence I would like to ensure she is happy, but not at the expense of everyone else. Ill keep working on the mother. If I can get her on board the kid will follow suit for sure

[1FinickyOne]

The biggest problem here is that it is not your kid and not your job... it really all falls on the mom. You do not want to be the abusive step-dad and should not have to be involved in discipling [especially if you don't want to] someone else's kid. 

 

My wife and I have been raising a niece since she was a toddler. I cannot do discipline. I have no will for it. My wife has always been the disciplinarian and the kid is great, now 12 - I rarely rarely remember my wife hitting, though maybe threatening to hit?, but getting angry and yelling, yes. And if I would have questioned any approach, my wife likely would have said "I am bigger than she is" - - and it was that simple and understood. And we have a really great kid. I like to think I have taught her by example...

 

Every kid, every case is individual, but give the kid a chance and cut the sugar way down and then let the mom do her job. 

 

Good luck to you - kids can be a total pleasure or a nightmare... but yes, this kid can turn around and the fact that you are concerned is a big help.  

[steve187]

being a step father the hardest job in the world, if this is not sorted early in the relationship, it will bring failure on that relationship, it will just stew and stew until it boils over. just my 2 pence worth and from a bin there done that view.

[Kenny202]

Yeah I bin there done that too back home. Lived with a woman in Australia 10 years. 2 of the most useless boys who grew up into useless men. Couldn't set the table or make a piece of toast. No social skills whatsoever. Mrs spent a fortune on their education only to have both of them go to uni for a few weeks and then drop out. One couldn't deal with the "stress" and the other just quit. Product of 10 years sitting in a room playing online video games

[Kenny202]

46 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

The biggest problem here is that it is not your kid and not your job... it really all falls on the mom. You do not want to be the abusive step-dad and should not have to be involved in discipling [especially if you don't want to] someone else's kid. 

 

My wife and I have been raising a niece since she was a toddler. I cannot do discipline. I have no will for it. My wife has always been the disciplinarian and the kid is great, now 12 - I rarely rarely remember my wife hitting, though maybe threatening to hit?, but getting angry and yelling, yes. And if I would have questioned any approach, my wife likely would have said "I am bigger than she is" - - and it was that simple and understood. And we have a really great kid. I like to think I have taught her by example...

 

Every kid, every case is individual, but give the kid a chance and cut the sugar way down and then let the mom do her job. 

 

Good luck to you - kids can be a total pleasure or a nightmare... but yes, this kid can turn around and the fact that you are concerned is a big help.  

Im happy to help guide the child. What I didn't mention was I have a young son 18 months old and at times he's no picnic. Still waking up a few times a night for bottles etc. My GF is excellent with him. So being a baby he is  hard work but I'll guarantee he wont be growing up the same as the little girl. So I have an incentive to persevere. I want my son to have a family. I have no intention of hitting or abusing the child. It doesn't work in any case. Maybe every now and then the kid needs a smack to know ur fair dinkum but generally hitting and yelling at a child doesn't work. It's about management. Kids aren't stupid. They're like Thais really. If they see an opportunity they will take it. 

[steven100]

8 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

When I met my girlfriend she had a 2yr old daughter living with her grandparents since 6 months. Nice and smart kid but spoilt rotten during that short time. Very similar to the kid in the OP's story. Anyway after 2 years of dating we decided to raise the kid. So a (by then) obnoxious 4yr old entered our lives. I had her (more or less) back to normal within a month. 

Rule no1: no = no. Never buckle or give in to tantrums, crying, screaming or whatever the kid tries. When you made your mind up, stick to it. It becomes easier very quickly. But give in once and you are back to square one. 

Rule no2: touch anything in the shop and we won't buy it. Period. No exception. If she wants something, she can ask, or during the first few months and not speaking English much yet, point. 

Rule no3: ignore bad behavior and reward good behavior. Only give attention when the kid is good. Never argue, fight or explain your decision until the kid is old enough to understand or debate at a certain level. 

Rule no4: Be around. A lot. Show that you are someone she can depend on. 

very sound advice ... It sounds like she's coming around ....

and what about the 4yr old kid ? 

Edited October 9, 2017 by steven100

[jacko45k]

You seem to have some of the answers in your very own OP.

A big part of the problem is the mother and her easy ways.

 

The child has a bit of turmoil in her life and is likely jealous of your presence, you do seem to have moved things along rather too fast..... you have only known her 3 months and have let them move in, baggage and all!

 

Get firmer and stop being a doormat, it is your home. If the mother will not help you, I suggest you end the relationship.... give it a little time though. There is always the possibility the child has some ADHD or ADD. Although it really sounds like a reaction to the changes in her life and you coming between her and her mother and a good deal of spoiling!

 

I have told my wife on 2 or 3 occasions to tell her friend, with the unruly child the mother cannot control, to go from my place. And it seems to be a good idea, they never come back! Some of them are a delight, the children being well behaved and polite....

Edited October 9, 2017 by jacko45k

[BEVUP]

47 minutes ago, steven100 said:

When I met my girlfriend she had a 2yr old daughter living with her grandparents since 6 months. Nice and smart kid but spoilt rotten during that short time. Very similar to the kid in the OP's story. Anyway after 2 years of dating we decided to raise the kid. So a (by then) obnoxious 4yr old entered our lives. I had her (more or less) back to normal within a mon

Wow Im glad you both agreed to a time that wasn't an inconvenience 

& also when the mothers leave them with the family sometimes for many yrs they have to go back to square 1 & reteach them from maybe the ways of village life to city life & different values

Edited October 9, 2017 by BEVUP

[shanesox]

Spoilt little brat! More kids around who have had bad or no parenting worthy of the name, and if it ain’t your own ...sod that for a game !


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Where is the father?

 

Or are you going to be another mug adopting a child that isn't yours??

 

And look at you acting all soft and making excuses for the child. You are already a pushover in this relationship.

 

It can only go downhill and it usually never gets any better. Perhaps if in Thailand there was help and counseling you could stand a chance.

 

In mom's defense, she is probably dead tired from work and struggling to raise her child, so she chooses an easy way out by granting a kid every single wish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[transam]

If the kid and her mother stay the same then as time goes bye you will be in for a shit ride...Trust me..

[BEVUP]

8 minutes ago, shanesox said:

Spoilt little brat! More kids around who have had bad or no parenting worthy of the name, and if it ain’t your own ...sod that for a game !


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Lets sum this up a little bit since OP has given further info

It would be interesting to know your ages (well it looks to me your retired )

& now I also read you have a 18 mth old child from a previous relationship (which you stated will not grow up to be like the G/F daughter ) - So is there a different set of rules between the 2 ? If your willing to take it on why should there be

? so has G/F stopped working to take on the full time caring of both children & if so is she to provide the same rules 

 

 

 

[Kenny202]

The child's father died in a car accident 2 years ago. I really don't beleive the child is jealous. It's more about control. In some ways she is jealous of the mother spending time with me. No easy answers. If the mother can accept some short term pain for long term gain we should be ok. Hardest thing is initially in some way the child will be unhappy with some changes. I'm quite sure if the child told her mother she was unhappy she would consider ending the relationship.

By the way. They haven't moved in per SE as yet. I'm just gonna go along for the ride now. Try and bring mum and daughter around gently. If it fails it fails

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[BEVUP]

2 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

The child's father died in a car accident 2 years ago. I really don't beleive the child is jealous. It's more about control. In some ways she is jealous of the mother spending time with me. No easy answers. If the mother can accept some short term pain for long term gain we should be ok. Hardest thing is initially in some way the child will be unhappy with some changes. I'm quite sure if the child told her mother she was unhappy she would consider ending the relationship.

By the way. They haven't moved in per SE as yet. I'm just gonna go along for the ride now. Try and bring mum and daughter around gently. If it fails it fails

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Kenny you keep adding bits to your story - Why not just blurt it all out from the start & some of the replies may be different ( but doubt it) 

[user82374298374]

There are plenty of fish in the sea. 

 

Throw this one back.

[orientalist]

12 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Is would appear to me to be something more common in middle to upper class Thai families...and of a newer generation. Is it a case of the last generation was hard on their kids and this generation does the opposite? I asked my GF what her parents were like because she has obviously been raised very well and she said her mother gave her the stick as often as it was needed. 

 

Anyone been through a similar thing or have any advice would be much appreciated.

 

I feel your pain. I have the same problem with my girlfriend's granddaughter, who is 4.5 years old now. No father, and the mother has moved out and abandoned her, so she is looked after by the grandmother and a grand uncle. The kid is cute and smart but has never known any discipline and has learned to manipulate adults with tantrums. The excuse given by my gf is that she feels sorry for her, but I think the root problem is that most Thais don't like confrontation, even with kids. I used to work for a big Thai company which mostly hired staff with degrees from the top universities and I didn't see this type of behaviour (much) from their kids, so education seems to be a factor too..

 

The kid's favourite trick is to communicate in monkey language. Pointing and "UH!" means she wants something. "UUUUUUUHH!!!" means she doesn't want something. She is still on the bottle, demanding it day and night. Her teeth are rotten stumps from sugary snacks and falling asleep with the bottle in her mouth (and iPad 3 inches from her face). I took her to see a children's dentist but she screamed the place down when they tried to take an X-ray, so that was the end of that.

 

Oddly enough, the report from her kindergarten paints her as some kind of angel. Possibly they are lying, but I think perhaps that a kind of peer pressure and the presence of strangers results in good behaviour. Back home, however, she doesn't respect adults at all, hitting them full force when she gets angry. Thank goodness I don't live with them. I do recommend kindergarten, though, so that there is some order in the kid's life. In fact, parents seem to expect the school to do their job for them. 

 

 

[neeray]

OP has pretty much identified all the problems. The biggest problem is the lack of discipline by the mother, and of course the energy boosting sugar. My X and I raised four kids. While I can say very little good about her, I must admit she knew how to rear babies. These kids never touched anything in a store and never threw tantrums in public. And nick knacks never had to be put away as they were trained not to touch ours or things at homes where we were visiting. Discipline, discipline, discipline is the answer to raising respectful, good children. Tough love is required.

Good luck to the OP.

[Jennyau]

You really need to tackle the problem together if it's going to work. Is your girlfriend committed to fixing the problem with her daugher? Does she even think there is a problem? Tackle one problem at a time....never ever give in or you are back to square one. Try when in the shop....have a talking to her before you go to the shop...as in...now we are going in....you are not allowed anything unless you behave...or along those lines..go into the shop...she touches anything...cries...yells...you put everything back and walk out ...sit her down and tell her that her behaviour wasn't acceptable... and either go home or she stays in the car with the mum and you go buy what you want and then go home.  After a couple of times of this and she realises...then buy a treat and make a big fuss about how wonderful she was behaving. Really....it's not that hard...just takes persistence and commitment. Good luck...your going to need it for a while....

Edited October 9, 2017 by Jennyau

[realenglish1]

First Tell the mother that it is your house and as suck you are writing the rules of the house down If they are not followed by the kids The will have privilege taken away such as TV or what not

 

Secondly by a car seat and tell the mother and the kid that if they want to come in the car they must sit in the car seat otherwise then cannot go

[JayBird]

Is it legal or acceptable in Thailand to strike or spank a child?

 

Or just not feed it?

[4MyEgo]

Starting a relationship with someone that already has a kid/s is always going to be difficult, suffice to say, the 4 year old probably doesn't want to know you because you are not her biological father, that's 1.

 

2. is she has been able to do as she pleases because its easier for mum to just switch off, as she is tired, working, and looking after the kid as a single mum, although if she really digs you and wants to be in a relationship with you moving forward, she has to understand that things are done differently in farang land, for the benefit of the kid, which is just like a puppy dog, needing to be taught to sit, wait etc etc

 

It is going to be a long and hard road, but if the mother supports you, and sides with you when its time, to show the kid, its not on, and this is how things are done, you are half way there.

 

Discipline is never easy when kids haven't met it before, and all I can say is you are both going to have to persevere, but don't lose focus of your relationship, which should be the main focus, i.e. unity.

 

Best of luck, as your going to need it. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[richard_smith237]

It sounds like you are in a really tricky situation. The lady in question sounds really nice, in fact too nice, too nice for her own children. 

As you well mention the difficulty you face is that you are not the father and people don't like being told how to handle their kids.

 

Gulfsailor in post 7 makes some very simple and easy to follow points - this is as easy as parenting gets and with consistency the points mentioned take care of the majority of parenting issues in bringing up a well balanced child. 

 

How serious are you with this lady. If you can't see marriage etc down the line then you may have greater issues as you'll never really want any form of control over the children. However, if you are ready to settle and marry this lady and take on a 'parental' roll as primary care giver it can be understood that for any chance of a normal family life you would need to take some control.

I would recommend sitting down with your partner and asking if greater control is something she can handle and would be prepared to accept. Explain that in disciplining the children you are helping prepare them for life to come and that this simply will not work unless you both put forwards a united front. 

 

Children are extremely adaptable, they are also extremely clever and potentially manipulative - they learn to play their parents very well !...  Ultimately it is purely up to this lady how much control you have over the development and discipline of the kids, but if they are living in your house there must be rules, there must be respect and surely there must be some steps taken in the right directly before you loose your sanity !!....

[richard_smith237]

40 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

First Tell the mother that it is your house and as suck you are writing the rules of the house down If they are not followed by the kids The will have privilege taken away such as TV or what not

 

Secondly by a car seat and tell the mother and the kid that if they want to come in the car they must sit in the car seat otherwise then cannot go

Agreed - The Car seat is a primary concern here as it is potentially life and death. 

 

To be honest I am unable to comprehend how an intelligent person managed to allow kids in your car without a car seat unless it was an unexpected one off with no alternatives. 

 

In its simplest terms - no car seat, no ride !... the children will adapt very quickly. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by richard_smith237