Bike accident - Are Farangs really victimised?

[AllanB]

I have read quite a few stories of Farangs who are made to "pay" even when they have been in the right. Indeed my wife tells me to "keep going" if there is an accident anywhere near me.

 

In Laos last year some kid came screaming around a bend on the wrong side of the road and nearly hit me head on, instead he dropped the bike, slid along the gravel and crashed into a crash barrier. He was fine, but dressed in shorts and flip flops, he was going to be really sore for a while. Not being involved, I drove on and some villages smiled as I passed by. Phew!!!

 

So to the story:-

 

My wife (of 8 years) was telling me about an incident involving her ex husband, which happened 15 years ago when they were still together.

 

Against her advise he bought an old truck and a couple of days in, it broke down at the side of the road, unable to start it, he lifted the bonnet to take a look. While he had his head down, two women crashed into the back of the truck at presumably some speed, the light was a little poor, but it wasn't dark and the road was straight.

 

Unfortunately, the passenger died later in hospital and the driver was in a coma for a few days. 

 

He was immediately arrested for not putting a Thai "warning triangle" down (read a few branches scattered in the road) and he remained in jail for just over a month. After long negotiations with the dead woman's family and a 50,000 baht fine (a huge sum for them) was paid to them, they agreed he should be finally released from jail. Their class 3 insurance refused to pay, given that the !warning triangle" was not in place. 

 

She hit a clearly visible truck and this "Thai" family still had to pay dearly.

 

So some advice:- If you break down, make sure you are handy with the shrubbery, it appears that this is a legal requirement, and if there is accident around you and you are not directly involve, get the flock outer there..

[richard_smith237]

In my experience NO...  Foreigners are not victimized. 

 

However, what does happen is a result of pure laziness and sometimes greed on behalf of those assigning blame. In many area's of Thailand it is automatically the owner of the large Vehicle who assumes blame, not for legal reasons, but just because this is the 'way its done'...  it is assumed that the car owner is wealthier than the bike owner and can afford to pay for medical fees or a little compensation. Equally so, blaming the bike rider will create more work as it is unlikely he will be able to pay for any damages to the car. 

 

Thus, Over time it has become the 'social norm' that bikes get away with their illegal and careless actions while the drivers of cars are more likely to be held to account. 

 

Add into the mix language issues when a foreigner is involved and the belief of many that foreigners can more readily afford to pay for damages and this 'social norm' is compounded especially when the Policy lazily apply blame and the foreigner feels intimidated. 

 

The best course of action: Have a Dash-Cam. Have First Class insurance, if involved in an accident and you are not at fault there is no reason to feel compelled to accept any blame. 

If a death occurs it is quite normal that the driver of the car will be charged with 'Reckless Driving resulting in Death' and a bail bond will be expected (First class insurance to pay), it is quite normal that this charge is dropped after a few days and proof that the driver of the car was not to blame. 

 

 

There are always going to be those who suggest that the 'Farang' is always to blame - but ultimately their experience is one of being treated the same as a Thai under similar circumstances but not truly understanding how a Thai 'would' be treated in the same circumstances and instead allow their paranoia to get the better of them. 

 

Equally so, there are simply some 'bad Police' who want to extort the foreigner, there is no reason to give in to this and those who do are simply allowing it to happen, usually some polite firmness will rid the majority of these chancers of their unlawful attempts to cash in.

 

Each situation can only be judged on its own individual merit and there are no hard and fast rules, however, in aggregate I believe that when involved in an accident foreigners here are treated with similar if not better courtesy than the average Thai. 

 

 

 

[macknife]

Any 'farang' I know who has been in an accident that wasn't his fault, has never had to pay anything.

Like the poster above has said, stand your ground and admit nothing.

According to my friends, they think they were actually treated more fairly because they were 'farang', as it made the police more cautious about going by the book.

1st class insurance is a must.

[colinneil]

2 minutes ago, macknife said:

 

 

According to my friends, they think they were actually treated more fairly because they were 'farang', as it made the police more cautious about going by the book.

1st class insurance is a must.

 

Are you forreal? Treated more fairly because they were farang!!

You need to wake up, you cannot keep going through life looking through rose tinted specticals.

[macknife]

9 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Are you forreal? Treated more fairly because they were farang!!

You need to wake up, you cannot keep going through life looking through rose tinted specticals.

Yes I am for real.

As weird as it sounds it does happen this way sometimes. 'Farangs' that live here are often treated differently than than the 2 week tourist. I have experienced it myself unrelated to this topic.

Perhaps not all barstool/ Thaivisa stories are real.

[colinneil]

54 minutes ago, macknife said:

Yes I am for real.

As weird as it sounds it does happen this way sometimes. 'Farangs' that live here are often treated differently than than the 2 week tourist. I have experienced it myself unrelated to this topic.

Perhaps not all barstool/ Thaivisa stories are real.

So you are saying that i am making up stories about me being made paraplegic by a crazy Thai driver.

Did not receive 1 baht compensation because of police lies.

Farangs are treated fairly, my a++e.

Edited October 19, 2017 by colinneil

[papa al]

He didn't say that.

Don't conflate.

[samsensam]

 

years ago the gf of the time's dad owned a few taxis on the side of his electrical business. one time a motorcyclist ran into one of the taxis, 100% the fault of the motorcyclist but the ex's dad paid up; for the motorcycle and hospital bills. i asked why on earth would he do that, she said that he could afford it and it was less hassle that way. i guess the thai cultural avoidance of conflict came into it too.

 

anyway, i guess it's not just farangs that pay up - though whether you get fleeced depends on your cultural awareness/language skills and the ability of your thai partner/friend to sort it out.

[moe666]

This can be an emotional subject for some but not every farang is taken to the cleaners. A friend hit a drunk on a bicycle who was on a 4 lane roar and the police determined my friend not at fault. He did give the family 50,000 baht more as a help to them the police said do not have to pay.

[Kwasaki]

17 hours ago, macknife said:

1st class insurance is a must.

Yes l concur but not always possible in many cases if the big bike is more than 3 years old l've found.

[cornishcarlos]

16 hours ago, colinneil said:

So you are saying that i am making up stories about me being made paraplegic by a crazy Thai driver.

Did not receive 1 baht compensation because of police lies.

Farangs are treated fairly, my a++e.

 

Unfortunately Colin, your experience is one of the minorities. Plus no one even hinted that you were lying.

The majority of accidents are sorted out, the same for foreigners, as they are for Thai.

 

Scaremongering is rife amongst the expat communities !!

[recom273]

I would also like to suggest ‘scaremongering’ .. I can disprove a lot of “farang pays more” instances .. but I think there may be an element of truth.

 

I caused an accident, I wrongly anticipated the actions of a scooter rider, as she was looking to the left - I presumed she was turning left, not turning her head 90 degrees to look at the her pillion passenger while having a good chin-wag.

 

Anyway, I cut across the front of her - If I hadn’t been so observant I could have just kept on riding - I didn’t touch her, I scared her and she dropped her bike. I didn’t, I stopped to try and do the right thing.

 

Just to say that the police wanted to take me in to the police station and charge me with driving without due care .. lol .. In Thailand ???

 

The police were on the scene within seconds, the riders family also turned up and started shouting and demanding multiple thousands .. the onus was all placed upon me, to show them my license, green book, tax, por-a-bor - the police didn’t care about her bike, until I started looking around her bike, no tax, “do you have pro-a-bor?” When was the bike last checked the the DLT? In the end her bike wasn’t road legal, but the way the police handled it was very one-sided. The police suggested her to take all the money I had in my pocket that I offered that would have certainly covered the damages as he or the family weren’t in a position to extort any more money from me and I was let go on my way.

 

I would like to think, I may hesitate to stop in the future.

 

There is a really good post from KTMphil on rideasia, where he was involved in an accident, its a real good read, he was advised to pay for the medical costs of the woman who caused the accident, the woman who wrote off his bike .. I cant remember all the details but suggest you take a look to see how a serious accident is really handled, with solicitors involved.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

 

[malcoml]

I find farangs do pay but not for the expected reason.

 

I was involved in a minor accident and produced my insurance and license. The police said we were both to blame 50/50.

 

The police left me at the mercy of a Thai crowd. An argument broke out  and the fact I could have stood my ground. I felt sorry for the lady and my bike was in no shape to ride of so I just handed of about $200 and they all got in and fixed my bike and she went to the doctors.

 

Yes I was annoyed at paying but then I didnt want to ruin my day and well in farang land I would have had tp pay a 600 insurance excess.

[AhFarangJa]

A friend of mine in Hua Hin earlier this year was riding past Market village. An old Thai man with a pillion rider pulled through the coned are straight in front of him. He had no way to avoid them. They went down and one man hit his head on the Kerb. Police said 100% Thai fault. The family did not contest. Then, two days later the old man died. Family come back and demand 1 million. Police change their mind and say 50 /50 so Farang must pay something. Eventually, after a lot of hassle he paid 50,000 to the family, 20,000 to the Lawyer, oh, and 10k went to the police.

Thai riders had no helmets, no tax, no license......Farang victimised..........Definitely !!!!!

[hdkane]

I disagree strongly with the folks who believe that farangs are not victimized here...the society and all its institutions are corrupt to the core...the ONLY thing you can do to protect yourself is to have good insurance...and let that company deal with the corruption...if not, you WILL be the victim...to think otherwise is to disregard thousands of examples that show otherwise...if you think that you will be treated the same as thais, while having the same variables as thais (e.g.., a motorbike or car or whatever circumstances), is to disregard the obvious history of this country...you are stupid if you think you will be treated the same as thais, if all is equal except for nationality...seriously, how can some people on this forum be so stupid?

[richard_smith237]

22 hours ago, colinneil said:

So you are saying that i am making up stories about me being made paraplegic by a crazy Thai driver.

Did not receive 1 baht compensation because of police lies.

Farangs are treated fairly, my a++e.

 

You were treated unfairly, that is not in dispute. However, based on your encounter you are attempting to project that all foreigners will be treated unfairly. Yet, mackknife disagree's, as do others and I.

 

I tend to agree with mackknifes comments that in some circumstances being a foreigner here works to our advantage - I have been involved in a car accident here in Thailand where I was firm and polite, the Police were very cautious about doing things properly and fairly - this has always been my experience. 

 

I am quite sure that there is no hard and fast rule - there are a whole range of encounters and examples identifying that there is no singular response, rather a spectrum of encounters, perhaps yours colinneil was an extreme rather than an every day example. 

[JusticeGB]

Not always. I got sideswiped by a drunken Thai girl on a  m/c whilst driving mine. Some Thais happened to see it. They came to look after me and not her she said she was drunk. A policeman came took one look at my m/c and said not you. She had fled the scene. I went to the local hospital. I was taken care of by some paramedics by the roadside taken by ambulance to the public hospital Xrayed, saw a doctor and got my out patient medicine. Total time at hospital 45 minutes. A week later went to Poli e Station and Police asked the girl what you pay to farang!  She only earned 9,000 a month so I asked for 5,000 and my bike repaired. Little did I know I would be in bed for 5 weeks. I got a serious groin injury. But you can't get blood out of a stone. 

[richard_smith237]

There are a number of stories here claiming 'farang victimization' ....

 

In each of these stories I read that the 'farang' simply gave in and paid up... he didn't do anything to push his case. Additionally so, in these events Thai's would have also been targeted for cash. 

 

It is he who is perceived as being wealthier who is expected to pay up, as has been the cultural norm for a while. Its wrong, it doesn't make sense to us, but it is the way things have been done here - the Law is not against the Farang, the path of least resistance is and if you are not in the wrong but do not resist someone will try and take advantage of you just as they would anyone else regardless of nationality. 

 

A lack of understanding of how things work here and how to play the game do no imply 'Farang targeting' they just imply that some guys don't understand they are still an easy target for those chancing and attempting to profit. 

 

 

 

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

23 hours ago, colinneil said:

Are you forreal? Treated more fairly because they were farang!!

You need to wake up, you cannot keep going through life looking through rose tinted specticals.

 

I dunno about being treated more fairly, but I noticed Thai drivers slow down more when I cross the street. Maybe because I'm a tall guy although my ex told me it's probably more headache for them if they hit a foreigner.

[JusticeGB]

5 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

I dunno about being treated more fairly, but I noticed Thai drivers slow down more when I cross the street. Maybe because I'm a tall guy although my ex told me it's probably more headache for them if they hit a foreigner.

I doubt that I just put my wife on the phone and she scares the shit out of them! 

[scubascuba3]

I brought an action cam to use whilst riding my new bike in Pattaya and I've been pleasantly surprised with the standard of driving all around. I've decided not to bother using it. It would have been a hassle anyway

[jgarbo]

On 10/19/2017 at 3:43 PM, colinneil said:

Are you forreal? Treated more fairly because they were farang!!

You need to wake up, you cannot keep going through life looking through rose tinted specticals.

Would agree that farang are given more leeway - if they are very polite. Speaking Thai is even better, not to prove you're in the right but to sympathize with the officer for his tough job. Get it, bozos? 

[colinneil]

1 minute ago, jgarbo said:

Would agree that farang are given more leeway - if they are very polite. Speaking Thai is even better, not to prove you're in the right but to sympathize with the officer for his tough job. Get it, bozos? 

If you are polite!! Well i was in a bloody coma, so explain how i could be polite.

[colinneil]

1 minute ago, jgarbo said:

Would agree that farang are given more leeway - if they are very polite. Speaking Thai is even better, not to prove you're in the right but to sympathize with the officer for his tough job. Get it, bozos? 

If you are polite!! Well i was in a bloody coma, so explain how i could be polite.

[digger70]

If  you have First class Insurance it does not matter  if you Right or Wrong,,,You Say Nothing , Sign Nothing,,,Call  you're Insurance they will sort it with or Without  the Police.That's why you pay So much money for you're Insurance!

[1FinickyOne]

On October 19, 2560 BE at 3:56 PM, macknife said:

Yes I am for real.

As weird as it sounds it does happen this way sometimes. 'Farangs' that live here are often treated differently than than the 2 week tourist. I have experienced it myself unrelated to this topic.

Perhaps not all barstool/ Thaivisa stories are real.

I have been treated very fairly also... being able to speak helps. A trucker who rear ended me tried to put the blame on me, but I spoke up and the cop got angry at the trucker... Also, what helps is having first class insurance as they are going to be the one paying... they will speak for you & themselves. 

[jgarbo]

9 minutes ago, colinneil said:

If you are polite!! Well i was in a bloody coma, so explain how i could be polite.

Obviously,  you came out the coma. Then be polite. Must I explain everything?.

[jgarbo]

11 minutes ago, colinneil said:

If you are polite!! Well i was in a bloody coma, so explain how i could be polite.

Once is enough, surely.

[Alanmel]

I have had 2 bike crashes here. The first 2 Chinese on a scooter t boned me sending my bike into a parked car. Witnesses (thai) told the police it was their fault, luckily for them it was out the front of a clinic as one passed out on the side of the road. My girlfriend spoke to them in English  then the police in THAI agreeing they pay for all the medical and own damage and I would pay the third party car. I did this to avoid ongoing issues if they really didn't understand English and had no money/insurance and later the car owner would come chasing me.

[colinneil]

Just now, jgarbo said:

Obviously,  you came out the coma. Then be polite. Must I explain everything?.

Somebody is lacking in the brain department, and it is not me

In a coma, do you understand what that means? i think not.

1 month in a coma, matter sorted to suit the Thai local government official who crippled me.