Spare the rod and spoil the child

[Once Bitten]

During  my regular weekly evening meet ups with my farang friends as the beer flows many topics come up and get discussed .

 

Last nigh the subject of child discipline got a few people very worked up  

 

Some of my male friends have children of varying ages who were born in Thailand and it seems that  there's one bone of contention with their partners on the subject of child discipline. The general feeling was one of ....... my Thai wife just won't tell the kids to stop or she just lets them get away with any thing and when I try and say some thing all I get back is a Thai smile and mai pen rai comment.

 

Last night other comments included -  when I try and apply any discipline to our kid the mother all ways sides with the child and comes to their defense or she say's stop getting on to them you think to much . 

 

Several fathers commented that they found trying to apply any discipline to their step child was near impossible task and in one case the comment was made , I have now given up .   Some fathers said that as their child had learnt English  ( which is the category I fall into ) they found that metering out any needed discipline was nearly all ways successful as they could explain to the child the reasons behind the discipline.

 

Some fathers said that they had tried to discipline their kids with a clip around the ear or smack which they all thought had no effect at all. 

 

Personally I have all ways thought that discipline is a must for a good upbringing and my parents were  pretty strict with me. Their belief was that if you don't punish a child for misbehavior then the child will not learn discipline and will eventually become spoiled and uncontrollable . 

So I'm wondering how other forum members with children go about applying discipline . Do you leave it to your partner or do you step in and consider it a fathers duty to be firm where discipline is concerned . 
 

[darksidedog]

I only ever smacked my son once, when he was about 12 or 13 and had seriously crossed a bunch of lines. I regretted doing so immediately, as I had only done so as I had lost my temper. I had a very long chat with him afterwards and explained and apologised for my actions. Thankfully, he got the message and was far more well behaved thereafter.

My dad used to lay into me for just about any infringement and I hate him to this day for it. My two kids are now good and decent adults and we still have a warm and loving relationship.

In conclusion, I have to say I do not agree that you need to hit your child to instill discipline. A good and meaningful discussion of the incident and the reasons why the actions were wrong, stays in their mind far longer than the pain of a spanking, and is more likely to earn their respect in the long run. They are also far more likely to be truthful about an incident when they are not in fear of a beating. There are other punishments that can be meted out that have better results. Grounding, loss of allowance etc.

[FritsSikkink]

The fathers have a couple of issues:

1) they should try harder to take care of their kids

2) they have useless wives

3) they need to learn to speak Thai

[Lamkyong]

if a step dad very little chance of success  for many reasons  either for previous posts or some to come 

[pgrahmm]

We have 2 girls....

The oldest has never been a problem - just that easy....If we go out for part of the day we'll come home to a nice disposition, the laundry done, and dinner cooked and waiting......

 

The youngest was just the opposite, entitled, strong willed, tempermental, lazy, selfish, and completely unwilling & unyielding.....Would watch TV 24/7 if given a choice.....But a really fun, creative, and bright person - her and I are more in tune with each other and that allowed me to be proactive....I can read her well....

 

One a giver, one a pure taker....

 

Now, at 10, she's turned the corner and is pretty close to the way her teen aged sister....

 

How? Mom used bamboo on her & I did a  few times myself - wood spatula - but largely to no avail.....

 

After Mom finally got really tired enough of it we did a few things differently at my behest.....

 

First, telling her to do something began having consequences....If not done I'd count to 3 - then the spatula came out - pretty soon 3 did it all by itself....

Second - jobs were assigned around the house & good grades from school.....If jobs not done = no good stuff (tv, movies, playing with friends, food treats, money, raising the kitchen etc)....Actions were tied with consequences.....I hit her where she lived - started using the who told you it's alright to take something that is not yours - somebody elses....

If I noticed something senseless I'd sit her down & weigh the options of her actions.....

Good comes from good actions - choices/bad comes from bad actions - choices....Repeated like a mantra....Countless times.....

 

I don't sit around & swill beer - I actively help with their school & projects/lives.....I am faster to be there cheerleader than I am to being their detractor - they know who's side Dad is on - and they don't want to disappoint me....They want that praise = important - praising is very IMPORTANT.....

 

Had to sit Mom down & explain giver versus taker - took some work as she is a natural giver.....It'd be impossible if she was a taker (but I never would have kept her around)....

 

Once consistently applied it took about a year for a complete turn around.....We now have 4 people serving each other - and all happy....

 

Our problem gal is now happy & readjusted - she was never really happy with herself while misbehaving = she needed the guidance & is a very happy girl now.....

That's a thumbnail sketch of some trying, but ultimately rewarding times.....

It only works if you're involved & a part of the solution....If you're a fault finder (as a lot are here) it will never work (and you will never be respected - just reacted to).....

 

Note - on a few family visits I've taken on a couple of the entitled big shot teen/twenties nephews mistreating others & received thanks from other elders in the family - sometimes they are so bullied for so long they really don't know how to handle/escape it so the kids just get bolder....

 

Me - I'm the wild card.....

 

Positive expectations & coaching get positive results....Even among adults....

 

Good manners are always expected - and appreciated....From me too....

 

Too many Thai kids are left adrift (and they will be as adults if they don't see the stop signs)....Not mine....

 

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by pgrahmm

[petermik]

There comes a time when a short sharp slap across the the back of the legs is absolutely necessary when children are young and "testing" the boundaries in my opinion......there must be some form of absolute deterrent.

Of course there are many other non-physical punishments that are very effective in teaching kids good behaviour/manners and explaining clearly what is acceptable and what is not,and many children acknowledge this,others don,t unfortunately.

As a young fellow many years ago a quick slap on the backside from my fathers belt soon brought me into line as did the cane at school........society today sadly is totally different

A few years ago at my home in the UK both my sons (early 40,s both married with children) stayed overnight and we discussed many things,I was quite a strict father to them when they were young (non-physical) and I apologized to them for it,their reply........."dad it did us no harm we respected you for what you taught us"  

Just my take on this subject,some will agree others will not

 

[The manic]

Violence begets violence.

[jeab1980]

Any so called grown up that has to smack a child isnt worth knowing. If you get to that stage you have lost might as well pack your bags and leave.  To Rule/teach a child by fear is so wrong. But you get the well it didnt do me any harm! Well sorry it did you learned to do the same to your kids so yes it harmed you.

Edited October 28, 2017 by jeab1980

[OmarZaid]

I have a Thia step-son, married witha 16 month old boy. He uses the same tactics his dead father used on him (I married a widow). If the child doesn't cooperate, his tone of voice changes and the the kid is not permitted to do fun things with dad, like go shopping or a bike ride, etc. It works remarkably well. 

Cheers

[pgrahmm]

38 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Any so called grown up that has to smack a child isnt worth knowing. If you get to that stage you have lost might as well pack your bags and leave.  To Rule/teach a child by fear is so wrong. But you get the well it didnt do me any harm! Well sorry it did you learned to do the same to your kids so yes it harmed you.

You know, you're probably correct.....

 

I got a smack on the backside about a dozen times growing  up - just enough to make me pay attention during the times that I wouldn't....

 

Our unruly one = maybe 3 times in a year if that many - rarely happened but did.....A smack with a small  short wood spatula, wide enough to smart a little..... Followed by a calm down time/hug & then a little chat/lesson about why.....

 

I can see where many might not have restraint (or have substance problems) and that's a very very bad thing.....

 

Time outs & loss of privileges where the main tactics used....Always followed be a chat/lesson....

 

Guess we'll never meet - but that's ok....Fault as you wish....

 

[jeab1980]

3 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

You know, you're probably correct.....

 

I got a smack on the backside about a dozen times growing  up - just enough to make me pay attention during the times that I wouldn't....

 

Our unruly one = maybe 3 times in a year if that many - rarely happened but did.....A smack with a small  short wood spatula, wide enough to smart a little..... Followed by a calm down time/hug & then a little chat/lesson about why.....

 

I can see where many might not have restraint (or have substance problems) and that's a very very bad thing.....

 

Time outs & loss of privileges where the main tactics used....Always followed be a chat/lesson....

 

Guess we'll never meet - but that's ok....Fault as you wish....

 

I learnt the hard way that smacking does absolutley nothing it neither corrects or learns children to correct there behaviour. What it does is teaches cunning and back handedness. I knew from a very early age how to lie convincingly

 I learned that i would never lay a hand on my children and i never did. They have grown up well rounded people. To which i can say i am very proud of.

[glasswort]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

Violence begets violence.

Rubbish!!!

[spw888]

I have 5 kids and 1 step-daughter (total 3 boys and 3 girls ages are 30, 28, 22 20, 19, and 6) delighted to say all are very well mannered, well behaved, respectful, kind, polite, and an absolute pleasure to be with. I never raised my hand to them, never felt the need. I remember I once read how "the only members of society it is acceptable to hit are the ones least able to defend themselves", and it struck a chord with me. My father didn't beat me either - I do remember once getting a smack across the legs, and another time a slap round the chops - but both times were in response to very bad behaviour by me.

 

In short, I don't think smacking, slapping, spanking, or any other form of beating a child is necessary, there are far better ways to discipline a child that don't involve violence - mutual respect, explanations, conversations, rules and regulations that everybody understands.

Edited October 28, 2017 by spw888

[Lucky mike]

Leading by example, set boundaries with ramifications if crossed, encourage...reward good behavior...explain cause and effect !

[Bill Miller]

My parents were "strict" disciplinarians.At my fifth birthday celebration my mother punched me in the head, knocking me off my chair, all while screaming "You little bastard! I wish you had never been born!"
Later that same year, the night before the first day of school for me, I, a five year old, did something which so enraged my adult father that he literally beat me bloody with a leather belt on my naked, wet backside.
I was unable to sit in school. The teacher calmly accepted the explanation that my father had hit me.
To this day I hate those versions of my parents, and the teachers, etc., who permitted it to happen. I did not do well in school, ever, despite being in the 99th percentile of intelligence, and why I have never permitted myself the joy of children because I would certainly have damaged any in the same manner. 

 

[pgrahmm]

14 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

My parents were "strict" disciplinarians.At my fifth birthday celebration my mother punched me in the head, knocking me off my chair, all while screaming "You little bastard! I wish you had never been born!"
Later that same year, the night before the first day of school for me, I, a five year old, did something which so enraged my adult father that he literally beat me bloody with a leather belt on my naked, wet backside.
I was unable to sit in school. The teacher calmly accepted the explanation that my father had hit me.
To this day I hate those versions of my parents, and the teachers, etc., who permitted it to happen. I did not do well in school, ever, despite being in the 99th percentile of intelligence, and why I have never permitted myself the joy of children because I would certainly have damaged any in the same manner. 

 

The scarring a life is not discipline, it's horrible abuse....

 

Sorry to hear of your travails....

[Bill Miller]

4 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

The scarring a life is not discipline, it's horrible abuse....

 

Sorry to hear of your travails....

Thanks, I survived. Could probably have had a more joyous life else, but wanted to pass on one hard life lesson on the subject.

[1FinickyOne]

My Thai wife does all the disciplining... I do near none... Hopefully it creates a good balance. So far, we have a pretty good kid. 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Perhaps the discipline is not working because you are discussing these matters during a drunken stupor.

 

Just a thought.

[Lucky mike]

46 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

My parents were "strict" disciplinarians.At my fifth birthday celebration my mother punched me in the head, knocking me off my chair, all while screaming "You little bastard! I wish you had never been born!"
Later that same year, the night before the first day of school for me, I, a five year old, did something which so enraged my adult father that he literally beat me bloody with a leather belt on my naked, wet backside.
I was unable to sit in school. The teacher calmly accepted the explanation that my father had hit me.
To this day I hate those versions of my parents, and the teachers, etc., who permitted it to happen. I did not do well in school, ever, despite being in the 99th percentile of intelligence, and why I have never permitted myself the joy of children because I would certainly have damaged any in the same manner. 

 

Bill I read your story as a child and shed a tear. I know you are not looking for pity it never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be ! I wish you love peace and happiness for the rest of you life......mike

[Bill Miller]

Just now, Lucky mike said:

Bill I read your story as a child and shed a tear. I know you are not looking for pity it never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be ! I wish you love peace and happiness for the rest of you life......mike

Korp khun krap, Mike.
I have a very lovely GF here in Land of Smiles.
Well worth the wait. 

[AboutThaim]

5 hours ago, The manic said:

Violence begets violence.

Absolute BS!  If you class a smack on the bum for a naughty child as violence I sincerely hope you never have a home invasion.  After reading Bill Miller's post, that IS violence and I would agree that someone subjected to that sort of punishment could turn out to be a violent person.  There is more to it than that though.  I know of one person who had a mother who thought he could do no wrong but so lazy.  He quit uni, his father sacked him from the family business.  His mother paid him to clean house but he was virtually sacked from that too.  Ended up doing security at a nightclub until someone drunk got up his nose.  One punch killed the drunk and this ex student from the school where I taught was given six years in jail.  Not all violent people are subjected to violence as kids and not all kids given a smack as discipline end up as violent people.  Probably not even Bill who WAS subjected to violence as a child.

[Kevbo]

9 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I only ever smacked my son once, when he was about 12 or 13 and had seriously crossed a bunch of lines. I regretted doing so immediately, as I had only done so as I had lost my temper. I had a very long chat with him afterwards and explained and apologised for my actions. Thankfully, he got the message and was far more well behaved thereafter.

My dad used to lay into me for just about any infringement and I hate him to this day for it. My two kids are now good and decent adults and we still have a warm and loving relationship.

In conclusion, I have to say I do not agree that you need to hit your child to instill discipline. A good and meaningful discussion of the incident and the reasons why the actions were wrong, stays in their mind far longer than the pain of a spanking, and is more likely to earn their respect in the long run. They are also far more likely to be truthful about an incident when they are not in fear of a beating. There are other punishments that can be meted out that have better results. Grounding, loss of allowance etc.

Well said mate, explain to them why it's wrong to do certain things, apply sanctions if necessary, remove phones computers etc.

A "clip round the ear" is just trying to downplay domestic violence

[jak2002003]

There is NEVER any reason to smack or physically punish is child.  

 

Doing is purely selfish, abuse and bullying from an adult, who should be showing care, love and affection to their children, not inflicting pain on them and making them fearful of the people are supposed to love them.  

Me and my brothers were never smacked, belted or wacked with wooden spatulas, and we were all normal well behaved kids, and grew up into good people. 

 

When your kids are doing something you don't like, or think is wrong, you have to take the time to change their behaviour, by finding out the reason they are acting up, and fix it! Kids are not bad for no reason at all, and its usually because they feel they are being ignored or not getting enough attention or frustrated as they can not find a way to communicated what the problem is with their parents.  

 

Sadly many parents can't be bothered to look at why their children are behaving badly and would rather beat them and scare them into submission.

 

Just look at the size of your body compared to a child... how can people think its OK to have a full grown adult inflict pain on a child?  I would not even smack or hit my dogs, let alone any of my children!

 

As in domestic violence, children growing up being smacked, physically punished, will grow up to do the same to their own children....  that is why I agree with laws making physically punishing children illegal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Krataiboy]

The good news for posters who don't believing in sparing the rod s that they are in the  majority. UNICEF reckons around 80 percent of parents worldwide spank their children.

 

The bad news is that hitting a kid can do lasting harm to your child and your relationship - and isn't even an effective deterrent.

 

Don't take my word for it. The biggest-ever inquiry into the practice links spanking to 13  out of 17 "detrimental outcomes" suffered by children - and plus the increased risk of anti-social behavior and mental health problems in adult life.

 

http://www.medicaldaily.com/spare-rod-spoil-child-spanking-383685

 

I have raised five great kids (including four Thai stepchildren) without laying a finger on them. Parents who use physical violence as a control technique need lessons on parenting and/or anger management.  

Edited October 28, 2017 by Krataiboy

[Grumpy Duck]

First, I do not refer to children as "kids". 

A child is a child a kid is a baby goat, an animal. But I guess kid is easier to type. 

I was raised with the ol saying, "wait till your father gets home" it always included the belt.  I never liked or respected my dad,  I left home at 15 years old. Joined the Army at 18.

When I raised my daughter, she seldom needed discipline. Well behaved, responded well to praise/criticism. On only one or two occasions did I respond to corporal punishment, when I did it was not out of rage I would make her stand at attention, explain what she did wrong, had her explain to me what was proper then had her grab her ankles and gave a small swat on the behind. NOT with a belt. Humiliation, her mom a first gen Korean American & I were divorced when she was 5 or 6. Mom had no time to discipline, her life was about making money, and daughter lived with a back n forth living situation. She had few friends but those she had are still close. She was good at playing one side against the other. 

Now, she is a 40 year old alcoholic who usually calls me when drunk and depressed. Mom is an old Prada monster, and all is solved by money, (Disneyland mom). 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Grumpy Duck
Oopso

[maximillian]

Parents who use physical violence as a control technique need lessons on parenting and/or anger management.  

Edited 8 hours ago by Krataiboy

 

Would be a great to give all couples - before they have children - compulsory lessons on parenting AND anger management.

[exemplary21]

21 hours ago, Once Bitten said:

Some fathers said that they had tried to discipline their kids with a clip around the ear or smack which they all thought had no effect at all. 

 

There will be an effect all right, that the child learns that physical violence is the norm.

 

Of course children need discipline, but using physical violence is stupid.

[exemplary21]

19 hours ago, petermik said:

There comes a time when a short sharp slap across the the back of the legs is absolutely necessary when children are young and "testing" the boundaries in my opinion......there must be some form of absolute deterrent.

 

Crap.

 

Deterrent, yes, but physical violence is stupid.

 

If you don't know how to discipline your children effectively, learn.

[steven100]

There's nothing wrong with getting the wooden spoon around the back of the legs or a smack on the bum.

Never hurt me and I know right from wrong because of it.