Being Ignored - Do you say anything?

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

21 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

 

O, don't go, you're post make me laugh. I think you mean "kee ngok" btw. Big difference between "kee ngok" and "kee nok"

 

Farang is with a 'r'.

 

I guess you're getting out as you're out of your depth here.

 

"nobody should rely on "movie or TV subtitles" as a reliable translation" of course, well said.

 

Okey-dokey, have a laugh:

Enunciation and spelling frenetically is something you have obviously not studied. In the UK for instance, "scone" is pronounced quite differently depending on where you live, however neither are wrong.

Speaking to a Cockney or Glaswegian, an Alabama, Texan or Seattle born and raised person is not straight forward in English if you have not noticed and mistakenly suggest is the case.

What you find in the language courses is not what you encounter and the translation dictionaries use frenetically helpful (well sometimes) suggestions.

Try telling a Thai they have pronounced their own language incorrectly.

I put "Kii Nok" in as an example.

Maybe you have the wrong book. You asked for a laugh!

 

 

 

Can you swim?

Edited November 16, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[MrPatrickThai]

4 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Okey-dokey, have a laugh:

Enunciation and spelling frenetically is something you have obviously not studied. In the UK for instance, "scone" is pronounced quite differently depending on where you live, however neither are wrong.

Speaking to a Cockney or Glaswegian, an Alabama, Texan or Seattle born and raised person is not straight forward in English if you have not noticed and mistakenly suggest is the case.

What you find in the language courses is not what you encounter and the translation dictionaries use frenetically helpful (well sometimes) suggestions.

Try telling a Thai they have pronounced their own language incorrectly.

I put "Kii Nok" in as an example.

Maybe you have the wrong book. You asked for a laugh!

 

 

 

Can you swim?

farang kee ngokงก and 

farang kee nok นก

 

mean two TOTALLY different things. If you can't/don't know the difference, that's your problem, it has nothing to do with accent or dialect as you suggest,.

Many illiterate foreigners can't tell the difference and wrongly assume they are being called kee nok, which, unless they live on Khao san road, they are not.

 

I have a qualification in Linguistics, FYI. 

[MrPatrickThai]

On 11/16/2017 at 8:30 AM, Rangerdriver said:

I recently went to information to complain a out the so called ladies parking at Central Plaza. The Thai lady I was talking to spoke English and listened to my concerns. She then ignored me and responded to my Thai wife in Thai explaining why my wife cannot park in the ladies parking zone. I explained that they stopped my wife parking there even when she was 8 months pregnant. Once again she only responded in Thai to my wife making me even more annoyed.
Eventually the English speaking parking manager turned up and we had a civil normal two way conversation.

Sent from my ASUS_Z002 using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

Nothing wrong with speaking to the person who speaks the national language.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 7:10 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

Why assume all foreigner customers in Thailand are white English speakers?

Most of the foreigners in CM appear to be Chinese.

Yes, but the richer ones probably speak English and the tour groups all go to stores where they speak Chinese.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 8:29 AM, MrPatrickThai said:

 

O, don't go, you're post make me laugh. I think you mean "kee ngok" btw. Big difference between "kee ngok" and "kee nok"

 

Farang is with a 'r'.

 

I guess you're getting out as you're out of your depth here.

 

"nobody should rely on "movie or TV subtitles" as a reliable translation" of course, well said.

 

I know I complained about this thread degenerating into a Thai language thread, BUT

in the real Thailand, farang is spelled with an r but often pronounced with an L, just like Lai as in mai pen rai.

[Gecko123]

[rewrite of post #154, page 11 ]

 

This is what gets me.

 

A toothless auntie, a wad of chewing tobacco in one jowl and betel nut packed in the other, her voice a gravelly rasp from years of knocking back shots of lao khao, and everyone says they can effortlessly understand every word coming from her mouth. Her pronunciation and tones, they insist, are to die for.

 

And then there’s you.  You, who has experienced hallucinations of lotus blossoms, psychedelic candle flame, and blood pouring from Buddha’s eyes while studying Thai. You, with your fingers gnarled and calloused from obsessive calligraphy practice, filling endless pages trying to perfect daw bpa-dtak (ฏ) , taw taan (ฐ) and taw puu-tao(ฒ). [Finish all the mazes and you can go home. Finish all the mazes and you can go home.] You, with your feverish eagerness to master the language, and you who has had countless successful conversations and discussions in Thai, and has come to feel your confidence in the language is unshakeable.

 

Until you meet someone who refuses to understand you. Like getting a ‘Go Directly to Jail’ card in Monopoly. Deflating, dispiriting, frustrating. But I’ll bet you anything that even the best non-native Thai speaker in the world experiences the same thing from time to time, even if they won’t admit it. Don’t let it get you down, or take it personally. It happens to all of us.

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Gecko123

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

17 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

farang kee ngokงก and 

farang kee nok นก

 

mean two TOTALLY different things. If you can't/don't know the difference, that's your problem, it has nothing to do with accent or dialect as you suggest,.

Many illiterate foreigners can't tell the difference and wrongly assume they are being called kee nok, which, unless they live on Khao san road, they are not.

 

I have a qualification in Linguistics, FYI. 

I was talking about transliteration.

I am fully aware of the pitfalls of understanding a tonal language, but you completely miss the point (see post 218).

Not worth continuing if you don't pay attention, "qualification" or otherwise.

Edited November 17, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[MrPatrickThai]

8 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I was talking about transliteration.

I am fully aware of the pitfalls of understanding a tonal language, but you completely miss the point (see post 218).

Not worth continuing if you don't pay attention, "qualification" or otherwise.

No you weren't, you were talking about dialects and mentioned, "farang" as spelled with a "l", which is totally incorrect.

 

I, on the other hand am not talking about tones.

 

You said "kee nok" but don't even know what the difference between that and "kee ngok" is. 

This is ,......erm transliteration. 

[Gecko123]

Thai isn't a competitive sport. Anyone who truly loves the language should encourage others to learn it, and avoid engaging in one-upsmanship. We're all fellow travelers.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

17 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

No you weren't, you were talking about dialects and mentioned, "farang" as spelled with a "l", which is totally incorrect.

 

I, on the other hand am not talking about tones.

 

You said "kee nok" but don't even know what the difference between that and "kee ngok" is. 

This is ,......erm transliteration. 

I refer you to the topic of the thread:

If you are fluent in Thai have you never experienced the scenario outlined in the OP's post?

Come on, it never happened to you really... And nobody ignored you and talked to your Thai companion?

Rigid transliteration in books is a nonsense, have a look at the road signs here.

If you have a "qualification" in linguistics then you should appreciate Thai to English transliteration (or vice versa) is not accurate in all circumstances and conversations. The same goes for the DVD courses with "audio pronunciation", it is impossible to cover all the alternatives.

For myself, I find every day a learning day.

When you teach me something worthwhile I might respond and I look forward to that as I dare say many other posters will, Professor Pat.

I close my case and wish you well.

(You gave 123 a "like" to post #219 and 222 so you must understand what I am trying to explain.)

 

PS. Sorry you didn't find the Monty Python sketch funny, maybe you should get "qualification" in humour next.

Edited November 18, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

I ended up telling my GF once to go sit down in the lobby while checking into an hotel,  because the check in/concierge lady would NOT make eye contact or speak to me. I told the lady I made the reservation, I'm paying for it. I am the customer, that's just a girl I'm bringing with me. I also have a rule if I am not offered service within about 10 minutes of being seated at a restaurant I just leave. 

[MaeJoMTB]

On 17/11/2017 at 2:18 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, but the richer ones probably speak English and the tour groups all go to stores where they speak Chinese.

Off topic, in China now at a top tourist resort, 1,000s of rich Chinese shouting, spitting and pushing. None of them speak, read or write any English (except the lady running my hotel). Was 3 days before i saw another white person. It's cold, wet and the food in awful. Do not visit China! 

[JLCrab]

Sounds just like the China I remember from 25+ years ago.

[spidermike007]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:10 PM, kenk24 said:

Oh, it happens occasionally and is worth a laugh... my Thai is pretty good and I am fairly fluid conversationally and yet, there are people who cannot understand a word I am saying... it is as if they just see me and their mind turns off...

 

The other day, I stopped at a coffee shop in the countryside and spoke in Thai with the proprietor... she was totally blank and a Thai customer using my exact words, understood everything I said perfectly and repeated it exactly to the lady - who then understood... 

 

I asked the young Thai fellow why he understood and she didn't - we all just laughed. 

 

Of course, if it bothered me I could live in my home country where people understand my words, but not much else... 

 

As Samui says above - let it go - no malice... 

 

I think some Thais are so used to not being able to understand what foreigners are saying, that even when you speak good Thai to them, they do not understand! And some cannot understand the slightest inflection of tone. Thai people do not have the ability to extrapolate, or imagine what you could be saying. Not the most creative ducks in the pond. The vast majority have very little linguistic ability. Not like the Latinos. I can go to any country that speaks Spanish, and have a conversation, with only decent Spanish. They really make an effort to figure out what you are trying to say. Most are creative, and imaginative. Not so here. Few make a real effort. Often their mind seems to just shut down, and their eyes go blank. 

 

Some of that has to do with the fact that there is very little within Thai culture, or the educational system that teaches them confidence or self esteem. So, most are afraid, and really surrender to fear. Not all, but most.

 

I understand this, and do not take offense at very much of what is done to me, based on fear or ignorance. I like most Thai people, and find most to be kind, gentle souls. Water off a ducks back, baby!

Edited November 20, 2017 by spidermike007

[Gruff]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I think some Thais are so used to not being able to understand what foreigners are saying, that even when you speak good Thai to them, they do not understand! And some cannot understand the slightest inflection of tone. Thai people do not have the ability to extrapolate, or imagine what you could be saying. Not the most creative ducks in the pond. The vast majority have very little linguistic ability. Not like the Latinos. I can go to any country that speaks Spanish, and have a conversation, with only decent Spanish. They really make an effort to figure out what you are trying to say. Most are creative, and imaginative. Not so here. Few make a real effort. Often their mind seems to just shut down, and their eyes go blank. 

 

Some of that has to do with the fact that there is very little within Thai culture, or the educational system that teaches them confidence or self esteem. So, most are afraid, and really surrender to fear. Not all, but most.

 

I understand this, and do not take offense at very much of what is done to me, based on fear or ignorance. I like most Thai people, and find most to be kind, gentle souls. Water off a ducks back, baby!

I thnk maybe you are being too generous. I think sometimes they are being awkward. Whatever it is ignorance one way or the other !

[MrPatrickThai]

On 11/19/2017 at 4:47 AM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I refer you to the topic of the thread:

If you are fluent in Thai have you never experienced the scenario outlined in the OP's post?

Come on, it never happened to you really... And nobody ignored you and talked to your Thai companion?

Rigid transliteration in books is a nonsense, have a look at the road signs here.

If you have a "qualification" in linguistics then you should appreciate Thai to English transliteration (or vice versa) is not accurate in all circumstances and conversations. The same goes for the DVD courses with "audio pronunciation", it is impossible to cover all the alternatives.

For myself, I find every day a learning day.

When you teach me something worthwhile I might respond and I look forward to that as I dare say many other posters will, Professor Pat.

I close my case and wish you well.

(You gave 123 a "like" to post #219 and 222 so you must understand what I am trying to explain.)

 

PS. Sorry you didn't find the Monty Python sketch funny, maybe you should get "qualification" in humour next.

Someone has a chip on their shoulder about something. 

I never said I hadn't experienced the same as the OP,  in fact I have many times. 

I have no idea what you're trying to say, apart from there are different transliteration systems.

You've chosen to argue with the wrong person regarding the Thai language and translation/transliteration of. I guess we all get hurt egos on different matters.

 

[Neeranam]

Hee hee I wentback to the mall and boycotted the original place, going to KFC.

Guess what, the same happened, well the girl asked my wife if I wanted upsized Coke. I took it in my stride. All depends what side of bed I got out of, I guess. 

[Neeranam]

Then my wife went to Tesco to do the shopping. We caught up with her and I paid the guy, guess who got the change? 

Sometimes it doesn't bother me at all, depending on my spiritual condition.

[MuntyC0re]

yes it's offensive for me

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

13 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Someone has a chip on their shoulder about something. 

I never said I hadn't experienced the same as the OP,  in fact I have many times. 

I have no idea what you're trying to say, apart from there are different transliteration systems.

You've chosen to argue with the wrong person regarding the Thai language and translation/transliteration of. I guess we all get hurt egos on different matters.

 

Well, I'm fine thanks, I hope it didn't hurt too much for you.

I think you need a bit more time here to understand the culture and people.

Best wishes for the future.

 

 

 

[JLCrab]

Maybe the reason that some Thais pretend not to understand a farang who speaks good Thai is that the Thai person intuitively senses that the farang has such a low opinion of them and their level of intelligence and self-confidence that it is easier for the Thai to pretend that they do not understand rather than having to deal one-on-one with such an opinionated person.

Edited November 20, 2017 by JLCrab

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

23 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Maybe the reason that some Thais pretend not to understand a farang who speaks good Thai is that the Thai person intuitively senses that the farang has such a low opinion of them and their level of intelligence and self-confidence that it is easier for the Thai to pretend that they do not understand rather than having to deal one-on-one with such an obnoxious person.

True, but IMHO it is lack of self confidence and as you say "the easy way out" that prevails to avoid a loss of face.

I don't find Thais to be unintelligent, just have a lack of decent education and an insular prospective.

[JLCrab]

The only Thais with whom I ever routinely have a problem with their not understanding my Thai-speak are those Thais who also speak English.

[MaeJoMTB]

3 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

 

I don't find Thais to be unintelligent, just have a lack of decent education and an insular prospective.

Ask any Thai to point to England on a map, or Cambodia, ask them about dark matter? Ask them how many weeks in a year? 

[JLCrab]

Ask any American to point out Thailand on a map and they might say "You mean Taiwan?" and they couldn't point out that either.

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by JLCrab

[bheard]

Ask any American to point out Thailand on a map and they might say "You mean Taiwan?" and they couldn't point out that either.
[/url]  

OMG. That woman is a master . . . of gobbledegook!


Sent from my BLL-L22 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

50 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Ask any Thai to point to England on a map, or Cambodia, ask them about dark matter? Ask them how many weeks in a year? 

That's uneducated not stupid.

I was in a sub-post office last week and the girl asked me where was I sending the letter to.

I said: The letters UK at the end of the address mean it should be going to England.

 

Stupid people you find everywhere (on TV too you might have noticed), here you find bright people with no education, and the stupid with an expensive education.

What is missing, clever or dumb, rich and poor, is a complete lack of common sense and logic.

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

18 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Someone has a chip on their shoulder about something. 

I never said I hadn't experienced the same as the OP,  in fact I have many times. 

I have no idea what you're trying to say, apart from there are different transliteration systems.

You've chosen to argue with the wrong person regarding the Thai language and translation/transliteration of. I guess we all get hurt egos on different matters.

 

Just a PS.

"There are different transliteration systems",  you won a prize! Bottom shelf.

That means not just the one you learned from, and Thailand being Thailand don't take any notice of rules anyway.

I looked at your profile a few days ago (check, it is recorded), which includes all your TV activity.

 

Catch up with you on another thread sometime.

 

[Ulysses G.]

When  someone like Joe Cummings or Andrew Biggs speak, Thais understand them.You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

[jayboy]

When  someone like Joe Cummings or Andrew Biggs speak, Thais understand them.You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Exactly.Those who on this thread say words to the effect “ I speak Thai well but often don’t get understood “ almost certainly don’t speak Thai very well.They are as you suggest kidding themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app