Road deaths rocket by 3,000 as Thailand set to be named world number one in carnage, say academics

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that it may be cars hitting m'bikes and killing the riders it may indeed be due to the rise in car numbers.

However, I doubt there are any valid stats as to cause of death to know one way or another. I was almost killed on my m'bike by a car driving imbicile in Chiang Mai. I was also almost killed while walking on the side of the street ( no pavements ) in Hua Hin by another car driving moron.

In my experience as a m'bike rider, the biggest hazards to m'bikes in Thailand are cars.

True there's no statistical evidence to suggest that the motorbikes are mostly victims of cars but when you consider the amount of times one sees an accident when driving a car here, most of them seem to be with other cars and multiple wheeled vehicles and comparatively seldom do we see a motorbike jammed underneath any wreckage. If there is a motorbike prang on a major highway, it's usually a solo big bike that 'got away' from the inexperienced or otherwise impaired rider and ended messily. The only accident Mrs NL had was when a motorbike with 2-up (underage, uninsured and unlicensed), t-boned her at a junction where she had right of way. There's a whole bunch of locals getting drunk in bahn nork who, after beer and laokhao, think nothing of haring off to get some noodles, in the dark, without lights, at high speed. They happily face plant trees and fishing holes and sometimes fellow drunk 2-wheelers when their high forward velocity in suddenly interrupted by a pot hole or a dog. They make themselves victims without any help from cars and bigger stuff.

[DavisH]

5 hours ago, overherebc said:

Normally 1 bike would mean max 2 casualties if nothing else involved but in many countries around this part of the world 1 bike could mean 3 or 4 or more.

That's possible, so it tends to skew the results....they quote the number of accidents but nothing mentioned of the number of casualties due to these accidents. 

[NanLaew]

7 minutes ago, Gregster said:

 80% or 45% ?

 

The OP says:

 

 

 

 

45% + 5% + 1% = ?%

 

Must be some special Thai percentage calculator. Meanwhile common knowledge (and a quick google search) will reveal this and many, many more like it.

 

 

Nice shade of blue that.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

True there's no statistical evidence to suggest that the motorbikes are mostly victims of cars but when you consider the amount of times one sees an accident when driving a car here, most of them seem to be with other cars and multiple wheeled vehicles and comparatively seldom do we see a motorbike jammed underneath any wreckage. If there is a motorbike prang on a major highway, it's usually a solo big bike that 'got away' from the inexperienced or otherwise impaired rider and ended messily. The only accident Mrs NL had was when a motorbike with 2-up (underage, uninsured and unlicensed), t-boned her at a junction where she had right of way. There's a whole bunch of locals getting drunk in bahn nork who, after beer and laokhao, think nothing of haring off to get some noodles, in the dark, without lights, at high speed. They happily face plant trees and fishing holes and sometimes fellow drunk 2-wheelers when their high forward velocity in suddenly interrupted by a pot hole or a dog. They make themselves victims without any help from cars and bigger stuff.

I'll take your word on the village thing then, as I have no experience of bahn nork, but in the village where I lived a while, there were no m'bike fatalities that I know of, despite plenty of 2 wheelers.

The sort of m'bike deaths I refer to are the ones run OFF the road by a car, rather than getting run OVER. 

[Lannig]

I've been driving (sometimes a lot) on Thai roads for almost 30  years now and this doesn't match my observations. Much, much less accidents witnessed along the roads than years ago.

However, statistics don't lie so the key must be more and more motorcycle accidents, indeed. These tend to remain visible for less time...

[shackleton]

Up in the Provinces school kids 3-4 on a motor bike no helmets 

No  licence

No traffic police enforcement  as they know the kids have to get to school

so can't see much changing in the foreseeable future  

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

I agree with you about the roundabouts especially on dual carriageways where doing a U-turn puts you in the fast lane I have seen many accidents because of this.

 

I feel if at all possible ban U-turns on dual carriageways, a large roundabout would be one option they could use it would have the effect of slowing the traffic and allow traffic to exit in the slow lane.

Roundabouts- NO WAY. The experience of anyone in Pattaya where the Dolphin roundabout was a disaster would say not a good idea. Roundabouts on the expressway would be a death trap.

Traffic lights are the only workable solution till they can install under/ overpasses.

[mrmicbkktxl]

2 minutes ago, shackleton said:

Up in the Provinces school kids 3-4 on a motor bike no helmets 

No  licence

No traffic police enforcement  as they know the kids have to get to school

so can't see much changing in the foreseeable future  

Wrong thinking,police should charge  everybody for driving without a helmet and or dl,if have to, then on daily basis until they start using a helmet and getting a dl,this current "government'  has enough money to spy out everybody or money for submarines etc,so why not money for a helmet or driving test

[Nemises]

Up in the Provinces school kids 3-4 on a motor bike no helmets. No  licence.
No traffic police enforcement  as they know the kids have to get to school
so can't see much changing in the foreseeable future  

Truer words never spoken.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Lannig said:

I've been driving (sometimes a lot) on Thai roads for almost 30  years now and this doesn't match my observations. Much, much less accidents witnessed along the roads than years ago.

However, statistics don't lie so the key must be more and more motorcycle accidents, indeed. These tend to remain visible for less time...

I too have been on Thai roads for as long, and have witnessed few accidents, or remains of accidents. It would be interesting to see exactly where most occur. I can't believe they are mostly on dual carriageways as seen hardly any. Two lane roads are the most dangerous by far.

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'll take your word on the village thing then, as I have no experience of bahn nork, but in the village where I lived a while, there were no m'bike fatalities that I know of, despite plenty of 2 wheelers.

The sort of m'bike deaths I refer to are the ones run OFF the road by a car, rather than getting run OVER. 

And I defer to your 2-wheel experience and thanks for qualifying that with "that I know of". There's a guy in our moobhan who always rode a big bike who we hadn't seen for about 8 months. Out with Mrs NL with the new baby last month and here he is, just down the street having a smoke and chat with his former neighbors. On being asked where he'd been, he rolled up his sleeves and showed the horrendous scars where he had multiple-fractured both arms in a head-on, self-inflicted collision with the road after clipping a concrete, roadworks bollard... no other vehicles involved. Loads of metalwork keeping his arms together apparently but he still has a (new) big bike. Same way I find one of the family crotch-rockets all scraped up with a mirror missing and find that a few days ago, one of the nieces swerved to miss a dog coming back from the market (she was at the market, not the dog). She never mentioned it before. Nobody mentions anything much about close shaves and near-death prangs when pulling out from the 7-eleven without looking but EVERYONE talks about the unknown bike rider that gets killed running a red light at the nearby crossroads.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Wrong thinking,police should charge  everybody for driving without a helmet and or dl,if have to, then on daily basis until they start using a helmet and getting a dl,this current "government'  has enough money to spy out everybody or money for submarines etc,so why not money for a helmet or driving test

You obviously don't understand "Thainess".

Jai yen, jai yen.

[mrmicbkktxl]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You obviously don't understand "Thainess".

Jai yen, jai yen.

exactly"Thainess" is the problem'

[KiChakayan]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Roundabouts- NO WAY. The experience of anyone in Pattaya where the Dolphin roundabout was a disaster would say not a good idea. Roundabouts on the expressway would be a death trap.

Traffic lights are the only workable solution till they can install under/ overpasses.

Agree, before one can understand a roundabout one must understand what lanes are for. Not there yet. Too complicated for the Thai brain. I see, almost daily in Buriram, people doing U turns at the entrance of the Elephant roundabout. Don't think that want to save 300 meters,  they just can't see then point of doing it right.

[KiChakayan]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You obviously don't understand "Thainess".

Jai yen, jai yen.

Yes, and you pretend to.

[transam]

7 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Wrong thinking,police should charge  everybody for driving without a helmet and or dl,if have to, then on daily basis until they start using a helmet and getting a dl,this current "government'  has enough money to spy out everybody or money for submarines etc,so why not money for a helmet or driving test

I reckon the BiB's kids use a m/cycle to go to school...That is the ploblem...

[chilli42]

I wonder why the death toll (road deaths/licensed driver) are on the rise? The road conditions, the type of vehicles and the road safety behaviors of Thai drivers have not, based on my observation, changed very much in the last ten years or more.

[NanLaew]

13 minutes ago, shackleton said:

Up in the Provinces school kids 3-4 on a motor bike no helmets 

No  licence

No traffic police enforcement  as they know the kids have to get to school

so can't see much changing in the foreseeable future  

Reminds me of my buddy visiting us in Isaan and on seeing 3-up on the motorbike one morning, ready to go to school, he asks the age of the kid driving.

 

"He's eight" I reply.

 

"But he's the youngest on the bike! How come?" he asks.

 

"The two twelve year-olds don't know how to ride a bike" I answered.

[Lannig]

Failure to quite understand "thainess" (who really does, honestly? even after decades in the country) probably accounts for my being puzzled by the enforcement of mandatory helmets on motorcycles in my remote upcountry place. Basically, it's only:

- during massive crackdown periods (a couple of weeks, few times a year usually)

- during daytime

The rest of time time, absolutely no one wears them.

 

[transam]

Just now, chilli42 said:

I wonder why the death toll (road deaths/licensed driver) are on the rise? The road conditions, the type of vehicles and the road safety behaviors of Thai drivers have not, based on my observation, changed very much in the last ten years or more.

More vehicles, easy to borrow cash to buy..

[puffy]

I have a friend who owns a fairly small garage, and a 20 million baht house, sends his kids to top International schools, If there was any career path I would advise in Thailand, it would be become a mechanic. It will not change, unless, no sorry no unless, it will just never change.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

And I defer to your 2-wheel experience and thanks for qualifying that with "that I know of". There's a guy in our moobhan who always rode a big bike who we hadn't seen for about 8 months. Out with Mrs NL with the new baby last month and here he is, just down the street having a smoke and chat with his former neighbors. On being asked where he'd been, he rolled up his sleeves and showed the horrendous scars where he had multiple-fractured both arms in a head-on, self-inflicted collision with the road after clipping a concrete, roadworks bollard... no other vehicles involved. Loads of metalwork keeping his arms together apparently but he still has a (new) big bike. Same way I find one of the family crotch-rockets all scraped up with a mirror missing and find that a few days ago, one of the nieces swerved to miss a dog coming back from the market (she was at the market, not the dog). She never mentioned it before. Nobody mentions anything much about close shaves and near-death prangs when pulling out from the 7-eleven without looking but EVERYONE talks about the unknown bike rider that gets killed running a red light at the nearby crossroads.

Had there been a fatality there my wife would have said, and the wat/ crematorium was nearby, but yes, far as I know.

 

I guess riding a big bike on the open road on a beautiful warm day is about as great an experience as is possible, only exceeded by having sex on a big bike on the open road on a beautiful warm day.

I hadn't really lived till I did the ton on a big bike. I equate it with using a bungy jump in Thailand .

Anyway, he probably thinks life without a big bike is worse than death, and if we're honest, just driving on the road anywhere is at best a gamble that nothing untoward happens.

[mrmicbkktxl]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

I reckon the BiB's kids use a m/cycle to go to school...That is the ploblem...

Well how many school busses can you buy from all speeding tickets or driving without helmet etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

I wonder why the death toll (road deaths/licensed driver) are on the rise? The road conditions, the type of vehicles and the road safety behaviors of Thai drivers have not, based on my observation, changed very much in the last ten years or more.

Easy. The number of vehicles on the road HAS increased beyond reckoning and it's all road rage, Thai style. My wife certainly tries to kill several every time she get angry while driving, and the last time we were in the car together I refused to let her drive because I wanted to survive the trip.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Well how many school busses can you buy from all speeding tickets or driving without helmet etc.

LOL. The people that would use the school bus can't afford to pay fines.

[mrmicbkktxl]

8 minutes ago, Lannig said:

Failure to quite understand "thainess" (who really does, honestly? even after decades in the country) probably accounts for my being puzzled by the enforcement of mandatory helmets on motorcycles in my remote upcountry place. Basically, it's only:

- during massive crackdown periods (a couple of weeks, few times a year usually)

- during daytime

The rest of time time, absolutely no one wears them.

 

yes,because police don't care,actually nobody cares and that's the problem.A few months ago I bought a motorcycle for my daughter including a helmet.She doesn't like to wear the helmet because nobody wears a helmet.I told her if she needs to ride her mc then only with helmet.She probably takes it off at the next soi but it makes me feel better I see her wearing it when she leaves home

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

I wonder why the death toll (road deaths/licensed driver) are on the rise? The road conditions, the type of vehicles and the road safety behaviors of Thai drivers have not, based on my observation, changed very much in the last ten years or more.

Much more vehicles on the road than there were 10 years ago. This based on my quarterly Udon-Pattaya-and-back marathon drives since 2005. Before it was do-able in a fast, non-stop, overnight 7 hours tops. Maybe 8 on a busy day time drive. Now I shun the 10 hour daytime experience and manage a safe, not-so-rapid 8-9 hour overnight drive. More traffic (loads more in daytime, not too bad at night) and more traffic lights.

 

Traffic management 101. Why do they install traffic lights? Because there's more traffic.

 

But back to the +80%-ers, have you counted how many and how prevalent the new motorbike dealerships like Mityon are? Dozens of them all the way down to the smallest of provincial market towns and all offering easy finance for the newbie, unskilled, unlicensed and uninsured biker.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, puffy said:

I have a friend who owns a fairly small garage, and a 20 million baht house, sends his kids to top International schools, If there was any career path I would advise in Thailand, it would be become a mechanic. It will not change, unless, no sorry no unless, it will just never change.

Being a mechanic in the west used to be a good trade till computers ruined it, but on the whole the path to wealth for the working class is as a plumber, electrician or any practical occupation that the nobs won't do themselves.

[mrmicbkktxl]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. The people that would use the school bus can't afford to pay fines.

Yes correct,but if papa not pays the fine then he will sit in monkey house and the next time his kids will use a helmet.It's easy,if I don't want to  get a ticket then I keep the rules.But as long those who should be a good example breaking the rules as long.........................

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, Lannig said:

Failure to quite understand "thainess" (who really does, honestly? even after decades in the country) probably accounts for my being puzzled by the enforcement of mandatory helmets on motorcycles in my remote upcountry place. Basically, it's only:

- during massive crackdown periods (a couple of weeks, few times a year usually)

- during daytime

The rest of time time, absolutely no one wears them.

 

In the small town I used to live in, there was a helmet check point at 10 am every day. Many wore a helmet to the stop, then once through took it off.

Whatever, helmet wearing is far more common now that even 10 years ago.

I'm more concerned about the morons that ride one handed holding a new baby in the other.