Second toilet in condo can it be done?

[Destiny1990]

Friend of mine has a 10 year old condo  in Hua Hin.

its 80sqm 2 bedrooms one bathroom.

He like renovate his existing bathroom and relocate his toilet to the other side of his bathroom. Also he likes to add an second guest toilet in a small storage room nearby his other bathroom. Is this possible at all i am not an engineer but seems u need to cut open floors etc. Has anyone any experience with changing location of the existing toilet and adding a second toilet room to the condo?

[Peterw42]

The pipes would be in a space between the floor and the downstairs ceiling. Its maybe possible if there is some access from downstairs or they let him put holes in the ceiling and then repair etc.

[Destiny1990]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The pipes would be in a space between the floor and the downstairs ceiling. Its maybe possible if there is some access from downstairs or they let him put holes in the ceiling and then repair etc.

Those pipes can not be reached from his own floor?

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Those pipes can not be reached from his own floor?

It would look something like this inside the downstairs ceiling. Could you relocate, secure those pipes from above, hanging upside down in a small cavity. ? And the ceiling will have light fittings, electricial, smoke alarms etc, that may not like having big chunks of concrete fall on them.

 

 

 

[trogers]

Be careful about cutting holes in the concrete floor. High probability in cutting off a steel tendon if the structural floor is post tensioned.

[watcharacters]

2 minutes ago, trogers said:

Be careful about cutting holes in the concrete floor. High probability in cutting off a steel tendon if the structural floor is post tensioned.

 

 

An X-ray of the area to be drilled  would answer that question.    I wonder if such an x ray  process is available in Thailand? 

[Destiny1990]

How about to elevate the 2 bathroom floors so a connecting pipe from to old toilet can reach both new toilets

[Peterw42]

OP, if your friend has has lots of ceiling height, you can do a bathroom with a raised floor and run the pipes inside the space. But then its a step up to the bathroom. Also each metre of horizontal pipe requires 20-30 mm of fall, so a 5m pipe would need 100-150mm of fall, plus the thickness of the pipes and any s traps etc.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Peterw42

[Destiny1990]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, if your friend has has lots of ceiling height, you can do a bathroom with a raised floor and run the pipes inside the space. But then its a step up to the bathroom.

Yes hehe i had not thought about the step up.. However i still think its a good solution and yes it has very high ceilings.

What would be the height increasement of the floor aproximately  to cover the pipe?

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Yes hehe i had not thought about the step up.. However i still think its a good solution and yes it has very high ceilings.

What would be the height increasement of the floor aproximately  to cover the pipe?

 Each metre of horizontal pipe requires 20-30 mm of fall, so a 5m pipe would need 100-150mm of fall, plus the thickness of the pipes and any bends, s traps etc.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Peterw42

[trogers]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

An X-ray of the area to be drilled  would answer that question.    I wonder if such an x ray  process is available in Thailand? 

Available by structural repair contractors, but very expensive to mobilize to the province for a small job.

[Destiny1990]

Probably building a cove around the pipe going over the floors is the best option.no breaking drilling and height difference much in floors this way

[cheeryble]

6 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Probably building a cove around the pipe going over the floors is the best option.no breaking drilling and height difference much in floors this way

Yes, and put the toilet on a raised section like a throne. I know of one it looks ok.

 

However

 

In the UK I did a major conversion of a 150yr old premises with a semi-basement floor.

Only room for one bathroom on the upper floors, so I put a bathroom in the semi-basement floor using a macerator from Wickes. It fits behind the toilet bowl and shower, washbasin etc can also flow into it (you won't need that). The pumped outlet.....which can pump the waste up a rise and for a good distance..... is 32mm diameter. it worked well the year or two I stayed there and never blocked.

 

Here I googled 300 quid can save a lot of much more expensive hassle, just a few pipe clips and a joint or two and it's done. I fitted myself no big deal. Obviously a mild pumping hum but not bad at all. They're still selling them 15 years later so can't be bad.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Plastic-Macerator-White/p/404470

Edited November 17, 2017 by cheeryble

[Destiny1990]

12 hours ago, cheeryble said:

Yes, and put the toilet on a raised section like a throne. I know of one it looks ok.

 

However

 

In the UK I did a major conversion of a 150yr old premises with a semi-basement floor.

Only room for one bathroom on the upper floors, so I put a bathroom in the semi-basement floor using a macerator from Wickes. It fits behind the toilet bowl and shower, washbasin etc can also flow into it (you won't need that). The pumped outlet.....which can pump the waste up a rise and for a good distance..... is 32mm diameter. it worked well the year or two I stayed there and never blocked.

 

Here I googled 300 quid can save a lot of much more expensive hassle, just a few pipe clips and a joint or two and it's done. I fitted myself no big deal. Obviously a mild pumping hum but not bad at all. They're still selling them 15 years later so can't be bad.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Plastic-Macerator-White/p/404470

Seems very good idea i will check it out.

Can buy Macerators in Thailand or need to import?

Macerators need to be connected with the waste water pipe of your toilet sink where u was the hands? Does it need to be connected with anything else also? Sorry for being so untechnical my side.

[cheeryble]

Don't know about Thailand.

 

The macerator can be hidden behind the wall or just tucked in front of the wall.

 

The outlet from the macerator should go to a proper waste line.

Outlet from shower sink etc can go to the macerator but probably don't need changing at all.

IF you have shower or sink lines to a macerator I would make sure to have excellent trapped outlets to stop hair going through (they should be trapped anyway).

The other thing is never to use hard 90 bends always use soft bends or two 45s. Same where you connect to the 4 inch waste.....use a 45 connector not 90.

 

Disclosure I've done just one of these and used common sense I'm not an expert. I see there are plenty of youtube now which didnt exist back then.

I do see the two reviews for the Wickes model are 5/5.

Edited November 18, 2017 by cheeryble

[Suradit69]

On 11/17/2017 at 2:14 PM, Peterw42 said:

The pipes would be in a space between the floor and the downstairs ceiling. Its maybe possible if there is some access from downstairs or they let him put holes in the ceiling and then repair etc.

The floor in my condo bathroom is elevated slightly above the level of the floors in other rooms. Presumably pipes and such are between the condo floor and the bathroom floor.

The condo above me was totally gutted and redone, including the bathroom,  without any issues with my ceiling.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

The floor in my condo bathroom is elevated slightly above the level of the floors in other rooms. Presumably pipes and such are between the condo floor and the bathroom floor.

The condo above me was totally gutted and redone, including the bathroom,  without any issues with my ceiling.

That is possible if everything stayed in the same place, sink, shower, toilet etc. No moving pipes around. As you say, the pipes are maybe inside a raised false floor.

[whaleboneman]

22 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Probably building a cove around the pipe going over the floors is the best option.no breaking drilling and height difference much in floors this way

I'm guessing you've never installed a toilet before.

[steve73]

You can get rear outlet toilets, for passing through walls rather than the floor (well you can in the UK, but I confess I've not checked here in T/L), and then run the waste pipes above floor level and into the existing hole in the floor.  Keep the pipes close to the wall and then box it all in with tiles, etc.  Still need to ensure the necessary slope, but this should still b possible unless its a very long horizontal run, but should at least be able to minimize the height of any plinth required. 

 

[Destiny1990]

18 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

I'm guessing you've never installed a toilet before.

 

18 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

I'm guessing you've never installed a toilet before.

Yeah if i had why would i been asking here for advice?

[natway09]

I think you will find that unless you are on the ground floor or can take the pipe out a service duct the 

Juristic persons will refuse your request as too much nuisance for downstairs neighbours

[jippytum]

If the work is possible he would need written permission from the Juristic person manager of the condo who after inspecting the Plans and after consultation  with the  management committee owner and contractor may or may not agree to the alteration of the unit that may be subject to local regulations.

[cat handler]

Just piss off the balcony like everyone else. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

Install  a wall mounted toilet and join the drain from the already existing toilet, assuming they are facing the same wall.

[Tofer]

Don't even consider accessing ceiling voids from below, it won't happen unless it's unoccupied.

 

The macerator idea is ok, try googling 'Saniflow' to see how it works, but can be noisy and you have to accommodate the unit.

 

I would keep it simple, purchase rear outlet wc's, even shower trays on raised plinths if required, and whb's of course can drain above floor level anyway. Run all the pipe work in a duct which can be built to either simply conceal the pipe work above floor level or to create a shelf with semi / fully recessed or surface mounted whb and even a concealed wc cistern if a designer bathroom finish is required. Connect it all into the existing 4" drain, this Thai style nonsense of separating the drains for the wc and the other waste water is why they block - not enough water flushing the solids and toilet paper away.

 

Why the majority of wc's in Thailand are floor connected is a mystery to me, relying on accurate positioning of the drain pipes in the floor, inThailand.... Probably another poor design idea imported from USA along with the crappy electrical system. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Tofer
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[steve187]

6 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Seems very good idea i will check it out.

Can buy Macerators in Thailand or need to import?

Macerators need to be connected with the waste water pipe of your toilet sink where u was the hands? Does it need to be connected with anything else also? Sorry for being so untechnical my side.

the machine fits behind the rear of the toilet, a toilet with a rear waste is required,( as opposed to a bottom waste) i have both available from an abandoned project.

[Elkski]

I have always thought it odd how USA toilet plumbing locations need to be accurately placed.  But I rarely see then not centered or located to close or 2 far for m the wall.  I guess plumbers here can use a tape measure and calculator.   But I admit much is wood frame so only the ground floor slab locations need to be installed before the walls are in place.   

[F4UCorsair]

On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 7:19 PM, Peterw42 said:

 Each metre of horizontal pipe requires 20-30 mm of fall, so a 5m pipe would need 100-150mm of fall, plus the thickness of the pipes and any bends, s traps etc.

The building regulations In my state require 1:10 fall for sewerage pipes, so 100 mm every meter.  Stormwater pipes require only 1:100.

20-30 mm per meter Is not nearly enoigh for sewerage pipes.

 

[Grumpy Duck]

On 11/17/2017 at 2:57 PM, Destiny1990 said:

How about to elevate the 2 bathroom floors so a connecting pipe from to old toilet can reach both new toilets

This sounds like a reasonable idea, however quite expensive, and plans should be verified by a structural engineer due to additional load of concrete and approved by the local district engineers and homeowners assn. 

[Grumpy Duck]

4 hours ago, Elkski said:

I have always thought it odd how USA toilet plumbing locations need to be accurately placed.  But I rarely see then not centered or located to close or 2 far for m the wall.  I guess plumbers here can use a tape measure and calculator.   But I admit much is wood frame so only the ground floor slab locations need to be installed before the walls are in place.   

Your lack of proper English makes your comment somewhat confusing. But after translating what seems to be your thoughts here is my reply, first locations of drain connections, (commode, urinal, shower, sinks etc) are critical. If your home in the US was 25 to 30 years old or older, it was likely built by qualified union tradesman, if newer it was likely built by unqualified non-union (rats) in the past ten years or so most labor in tract homes do not even speak English, often are untrained illegals from Mexico. The emphasis is on slapping dwellings together as fast as possible. I have constructed many sewer, water and storm drain systems in tract and industrial situations since 1979. Plummers build drains within structures and we would pre-build the public utilities marking house connections with stakes. We would later connect the drops to the city system. Occasionally they were in the correct location, more often not, at times more than a foot off. I recall a number of times we had to re-engineer the street connections as the original design was so far off from where actually built.