Second toilet in condo can it be done?

[Srikcir]

15 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

The condo above me was totally gutted and redone, including the bathroom,  without any issues with my ceiling.

But was a toilet and toilet room added?

If so, it would be helpful to know the administrative process for approval.

If not, what's the relevance?

[Tofer]

10 hours ago, Elkski said:

I have always thought it odd how USA toilet plumbing locations need to be accurately placed.  But I rarely see then not centered or located to close or 2 far for m the wall.  I guess plumbers here can use a tape measure and calculator.   But I admit much is wood frame so only the ground floor slab locations need to be installed before the walls are in place.   

I stayed in a hotel in San Diego last year where the toilet cistern was at least 6" off the wall just floating around in the bathroom.

 

In UK all the wc's I've ever come across have rear / horizontal outlets and there's a comprehensive range of flexible connectors(McAlpine) that take up the tolerances between wc and drain pipe, are extremely easy to fit and never, in my experience, give a bad seal or allow odours through. I don't believe these are available in Thailand though.

 

I have seen some rear outlet wc's in HomePro with connectors included.

[Tofer]

8 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

The building regulations In my state require 1:10 fall for sewerage pipes, so 100 mm every meter.  Stormwater pipes require only 1:100.

20-30 mm per meter Is not nearly enoigh for sewerage pipes.

 

Too much. In UK the required fall is 1:40 (1" or 25mm / m run). The principle being that too steep a fall causes the water to run off too fast leaving the solids behind.

 

With all due respect the US bldg. regs. are written by insurance companies.

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

But was a toilet and toilet room added?

If so, it would be helpful to know the administrative process for approval.

If not, what's the relevance?

Forget the admin process and forget the idea of accessing ceiling voids or constructing raised floors, either concrete or timber. Far too much upheaval, expense and legal issues with condo officialdom.

 

Refer to my earlier post for above ground / floor installation, far simpler, cheaper and permanently accessible, modern and attractive if the boxing is integrated into the bathroom design properly.

[Destiny1990]

So how much slope would a 4 meter toilet pipe needs that probably even has 2 curves in those 4 meters of pipe seems there are different opinions about this.

i somewhat think it could easily lead to blocking and or smelling problems.

[Destiny1990]

4 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Forget the admin process and forget the idea of accessing ceiling voids or constructing raised floors, either concrete or timber. Far too much upheaval, expense and legal issues with condo officialdom.

 

Refer to my earlier post for above ground / floor installation, far simpler, cheaper and permanently accessible, modern and attractive if the boxing is integrated into the bathroom design properly.

U refer to the Macerators? connecting just to the sinc pipe and an electrical outlet is it? Those toilets look sonewhat plastic or do they also come in the same material as ordinary toilets?

[Srikcir]

22 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Forget the admin process

Just do it covertly and don't publicize the additional toilet.

Otherwise an additional toilet might not be allowed by the jurastic person due to building permit based on total number of toilets in condo. The design waste volume determines size of sanitary waste run-outs and mainlines. Too many condo units adding more toilets (if one owner can add, why not all unit owners?) could create unanticipated "downstream" issues = costs.

[Tofer]

19 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

U refer to the Macerators? connecting just to the sinc pipe and an electrical outlet is it? Those toilets look sonewhat plastic or do they also come in the same material as ordinary toilets?

I just wanted to give you the full choice of options. I personally would not go down that route, as you've noted you also need an electrical connection. However, you can connect any (rear outlet - unless you want to go under the floor) wc (toilet) as far as I am aware but the macerator is a plastic unit, and not particularly attractive. I'm sure they have improved over the years but I don't believe they will be totally silent. They work on the principle that you macerate the solids and can run a smaller, more easily concealed, drain pipe to a suitable branch connection and they can run uphill as they pump as well as macerate. This unit would have to be accessible for maintenance.

 

The images are a couple of styles we used on one of our apartments. The vanity unit in the en-suite photo is against a loft wall where all the pipework runs concealed and is accessible. The boxing in the other is designed to conceal all pipework and the toilet cistern, fully accessible with concealed removable front panels cut to suit the decorative plastic tile grid, both under the whb and above the wc.

 

Hope this gives you plenty of ideas.

[Tofer]

59 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

So how much slope would a 4 meter toilet pipe needs that probably even has 2 curves in those 4 meters of pipe seems there are different opinions about this.

i somewhat think it could easily lead to blocking and or smelling problems.

100mm regardless of the bends. Ensure you run the hand basin waste pipe into the 4" toilet drain which provides additional water to the flushing to ensure everything is washed away.

[Tofer]

The toilet in the en-suite also has a concealed cistern built in behind the loft wall. If you want to conceal anything, just remember to design in some way of accessing everything as there is always the possibility of leaks, particularly in water supply pipes and connections, plus the cistern may need maintenance to fix the flushing mechanism inside.

 

PS. Everything you see was done by my own fair hands, and I'm a pen pusher by profession (architect), so don't be afraid of getting stuck in yourself.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Tofer
add

[Destiny1990]

10 minutes ago, Tofer said:

100mm regardless of the bends. Ensure you run the hand basin waste pipe into the 4" toilet drain which provides additional water to the flushing to ensure everything is washed away.

In that case it might be wise to also attaching mine existing shower waist water pipe to the new extended toilet drain pipe and also like u said included the waste water pipes from the sink to enhance flow?

[Tofer]

21 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

In that case it might be wise to also attaching mine existing shower waist water pipe to the new extended toilet drain pipe and also like u said included the waste water pipes from the sink to enhance flow?

Absolutely, put everything down there you can physically connect. The Thais separate their solid waste from their cleaner waste, I believe because they are too mean to empty the septic tank frequently, although this is also a misconception as the solids are the only waste that fills the septic tank needing periodic removal, and even this degrades / decomposes to some degree. There is, should always be, an overflow from the sceptic tank to a soak away pit / slotted drains in gravel to carry away the water that fills the septic tank.

 

It always makes me laugh when I see signs in bathrooms telling you not to put toilet paper down the toilet....... A clear indication the drainage is poorly designed, or they are trying to avoid emptying septic tanks.

 

Just make sure you have proper traps to the whb and the shower to avoid those unpleasant aromas frequently found in hotel bathrooms. Pay particular attention to where you fit these 'P' traps, try to ensure the whb waste goes into the in-line 'P' trap as well (if possible) just in case you have a shower or floor drain that gets little use, as their traps will eventually dry out. As long as the bathroom is being used and hands are washed then there will always be water in the trap.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Tofer
edit

[Destiny1990]

It needs a very skilled person for such job. Lots of things can go wrong.

wonder if anyone fitted yet a second toilet in his Thailand condo. Abroad this might be easier to do then here.

[Tofer]

34 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

It needs a very skilled person for such job. Lots of things can go wrong.

wonder if anyone fitted yet a second toilet in his Thailand condo. Abroad this might be easier to do then here.

Good luck with that, Even our current Thai landlord advised us to do our own plumbing and drainage on our current building project. Instead I designed it all, gave them detailed drawings and frequently watch over them to make sure they are doing it properly, and still I worry!!!

I'm not saying there aren't capable tradesmen in Thailand, just be very careful who you choose.

[Destiny1990]

2 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Good luck with that, Even our current Thai landlord advised us to do our own plumbing and drainage on our current building project. Instead I designed it all, gave them detailed drawings and frequently watch over them to make sure they are doing it properly, and still I worry!!!

I'm not saying there aren't capable tradesmen in Thailand, just be very careful who you choose.

Maybe install only a second guest  normal toilet a real one  but only that it is to be used for to pee.

That might avoid lot of smell and blockage furture problems. And only keep the first toilet in the main bathroom for both functions. Its still better then only one toilet. The new toilet would be more for visitors they then not need to go the master bathroom for to urinate.

[F4UCorsair]

3 hours ago, Tofer said:

Too much. In UK the required fall is 1:40 (1" or 25mm / m run). The principle being that too steep a fall causes the water to run off too fast leaving the solids behind.

 

With all due respect the US bldg. regs. are written by insurance companies.

 

That may be the case in the UK, and I don't dispute that, only your logic, e.g., a pipe that drops at a  greater rate than what you stipulate won't take the solids with it??    A vertical pipe for example??  There are plenty of those in high rise buildings.   1 in 80 may be the absolute minimum, but it's certainly not the optimum, or desirable.

 

I live in Australia, incidentally, and the last time I did renovations, only a couple years ago, the minimum fall for sewer pipes was 1 in 10, and stormwater 1 in 100.

[cheeryble]

12 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

The building regulations In my state require 1:10 fall for sewerage pipes, so 100 mm every meter.  Stormwater pipes require only 1:100.

20-30 mm per meter Is not nearly enoigh for sewerage pipes.

 

Begging your pardon F4U but 1:40 was always mentioned in the UK.

thats a bit over a quarter inch per foot for neanderthals :)

Too little slope the solid doesn't flow.

Too much slope and the water selves the solid behind.

Obviously there's a range thats OK but I think 1:10 might come in the latter category.

25mm per metre would be OK

Edited November 19, 2017 by cheeryble

[F4UCorsair]

3 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

Begging your pardon F4U but 1:40 was always mentioned in the UK.

thats a bit over a quarter inch per foot for neanderthals :)

Too little slope the solid doesn't flow.

Too much slope and the water selves the solid behind.

Obviously there's a range thats OK but I think 1:10 might come in the latter category.

 

So what about vertical pipes?    At what point does the fall become unacceptable.  There would be very few buildings where the fall is 1 in 40 for any significant distance.

 

You cannot have a steady 1 in 40 fall everywhere in a building, so I therefore contend at 1 in 40 is the absolute minimum,  but greater is acceptable, and the state in which I live mandates 1 in 10 minimum for sewerage lines..

Edited November 19, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[cheeryble]

Just now, F4UCorsair said:

 

So what about vertical pipes?    At what point is the fall unacceptable?  

Whoops I see someone already mentioned the fall 

Vertical pipes?.......I would guess a different dynamic comes into play where the soft (should be!) bend at the bottom gets cleared by the very fast moving effluent coming down. Sound reasonable?

[F4UCorsair]

2 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

Whoops I see someone already mentioned the fall 

Vertical pipes?.......I would guess a different dynamic comes into play where the soft (should be!) bend at the bottom gets cleared by the very fast moving effluent coming down. Sound reasonable?

Of course it sounds reasonable, except for my post right above yours, and that says you can't have a stead 1 in 40 for any significant distance in every building, and in most cases it will be more.

 

What about falls between 1 in 40 and vertical, and they are everywhere in a building.

 

I'm out.

Edited November 19, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[Tofer]

4 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Maybe install only a second guest  normal toilet a real one  but only that it is to be used for to pee.

That might avoid lot of smell and blockage furture problems. And only keep the first toilet in the main bathroom for both functions. Its still better then only one toilet. The new toilet would be more for visitors they then not need to go the master bathroom for to urinate.

I think you'll struggle to ensure guests only pee in your toilet, but it makes no difference if you're connecting to the main bathroom drainage anyway, smells will come up from the sewers / septic tank even if the developers put a proper vent pipe at high level - unlikely....

[Tofer]

4 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

That may be the case in the UK, and I don't dispute that, only your logic, e.g., a pipe that drops at a  greater rate than what you stipulate won't take the solids with it??    A vertical pipe for example??  There are plenty of those in high rise buildings.   1 in 80 may be the absolute minimum, but it's certainly not the optimum, or desirable.

 

I live in Australia, incidentally, and the last time I did renovations, only a couple years ago, the minimum fall for sewer pipes was 1 in 10, and stormwater 1 in 100.

Sorry I mixed up your location. I'm surprised to hear your regs are different to ours in UK, particularly as it's a British penal colony established by POME's (prisoners of mother England) :) 

 

Obviously there are situations where vertical drains are incorporated, and I would be surprised to find any solids sticking in those sections, unless you had too sharp a bend at the bottom.

 

1:40 is the industry standard in UK as I was taught in college and as plumber friends have ratified, for the reasons I mentioned previously.

[Tofer]

4 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

Of course it sounds reasonable, except for my post right above yours, and that says you can't have a stead 1 in 40 for any significant distance in every building, and in most cases it will be more.

 

What about falls between 1 in 40 and vertical, and they are everywhere in a building.

 

I'm out.

Not in any of my buildings, and my 4 storey, 11 flat block has many a long horizontal section internally above ceilings, all at 1:40, linked up with completely vertical pipes, and never a problem in 14 years, except on rare occasions some stupid tenant has put wet wipes and or sanitary napkins down the toilet.

[F4UCorsair]

10 hours ago, Tofer said:

Sorry I mixed up your location. I'm surprised to hear your regs are different to ours in UK, particularly as it's a British penal colony established by POME's (prisoners of mother England) :) 

 

Obviously there are situations where vertical drains are incorporated, and I would be surprised to find any solids sticking in those sections, unless you had too sharp a bend at the bottom.

 

1:40 is the industry standard in UK as I was taught in college and as plumber friends have ratified, for the reasons I mentioned previously.

 

 

I think you meant a PENILE (not penal) colony!!

 

No jokes about c*** suckers thanks.

[mrwebb8825]

[janclaes47]

On 19/11/2017 at 1:01 PM, cheeryble said:

Begging your pardon F4U but 1:40 was always mentioned in the UK.

thats a bit over a quarter inch per foot for neanderthals :)

Too little slope the solid doesn't flow.

Too much slope and the water selves the solid behind.

Obviously there's a range thats OK but I think 1:10 might come in the latter category.

25mm per metre would be OK

 

Almost everywhere in the world the regulation is 1:10, the UK is the only one that states 1:40.

 

You want to claim the Brits are the only smart people in the world?

[Tofer]

23 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Almost everywhere in the world the regulation is 1:10, the UK is the only one that states 1:40.

 

You want to claim the Brits are the only smart people in the world?

You're very well informed if you can quote the regs of almost every country in the world! I would take my hat off to you, if I wore one....

 

The Brits are not the only smart people in the world, but definitely up there with the best. Over a very long expatriate career I've found the predominant senior professional and supervisory trade related expatriates to be Brits, unless they are cheapskate companies that pay peanuts, then we all know what they get then!