Bringing savings into Thailand, wise move?

[old girl]

Hi, not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but anyway.... We are retiring here from within Asia and were advised by other expats not to bring too much money into the country and place it in Singapore which is considered a safer option.  We have no business interests here but want our $ to be safe.  As we are not working and should not be under scrutiny from the authorities, can anyone offer any reasons not to have their savings here in Thailand?  Many thanks.

[Briggsy]

1. Currency depreciation/inflation (reducing the value of your assets)

2. Exchange controls (stopping you taking money out)

3. Insider bank fraud (Not uncommon here)

4. Financial institution collapse (BBC)

5. Compensation limits (measly)

6. Data protection / Confidentiality (not respected, expect your bank details to be revealed)

7. Don't advertise your wealth (see no. 6, not a good idea here)

8. Poor returns when factoring in risk

9. Investment options (limited)

10. Asset management fees (higher)

11. Regulatory oversight (virtually non-existent)

 

If you have a significant worth, all of the above reasons not to bring money here would be less in Singapore.

 

The real question is if you had, say, 2 or 3 million US $, why on earth would you want to invest it all in Thailand? Who knows what changes may occur in the years to come?

 

I think this first reply should set the ball rolling and boost the activity on this site.

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Briggsy

[old girl]

3 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

1. Currency depreciation/inflation (reducing the value of your assets)

2. Exchange controls (stopping you taking money out)

3. Insider bank fraud (Not uncommon here)

4. Financial institution collapse (BBC)

5. Compensation limits (measly)

6. Data protection / Confidentiality (not respected, expect your bank details to be revealed)

7. Don't advertise your wealth (see no. 6, not a good idea here)

8. Poor returns when factoring in risk

9. Investment options (limited)

10. Asset management fees (higher)

11. Regulatory oversight (virtually non-existent)

 

If you have a significant worth, all of the above reasons not to bring money here would be less in Singapore.

 

The real question is if you had, say, 2 or 3 million US $, why on earth would you want to invest it all in Thailand?

 

I think this first reply should set the ball rolling and boost the activity on this site.

 

oh, ok, got it. Thanks!

 

[simoh1490]

By contrast and to give some balance:

 

1 - THB is a very strong currency but whether the exchange rate remains competitive is a subjective thing.

2 - it's easily possible to import funds into a non-resident bank account, this will allow you transfer out again all of the money you brought in, without any problems whatsoever.

3 - I've held accounts at most of the banks in Thailand over the past fifteen years and never had a problem with fraud, I've head stories about bank fraud but I can't tell how many of them are fact or bar stool banter.

4 - Thailand is home to some very very large banks, Bank of Ayudhya is part of Bank Mitsubishi, the Japanese bank which has over USD 2.5 trillion in assets. All bank accounts in Thailand are covered by deposit insurance, currently up to 15 mill. THB I believe per account.

5 - 10 are easily managed offshore or on and I don't know they form part of a decision to bring funds over or not. It would however be prudent risk management to spread large amounts of cash amongst several banks, offshore and onshore and I think that applies to most countries in the world. FWIW I keep over 8 mill. THB in Thailand and I sleep very well.

 

[ezzra]

Any person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year shall be deemed a resident of Thailand for

tax purposes....  

and all monies brought into Thailand are deemed to be an earning

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/37749.0.html

also, intrerests paid on deposits now days are at paltery 1.5% of that,

15% will be with held as tax,

the THB is very strong now, wait for it to come down, and bring only

what you need....

[simoh1490]

19 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Any person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year shall be deemed a resident of Thailand for

tax purposes....  

and all monies brought into Thailand are deemed to be an earning

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/37749.0.html

also, intrerests paid on deposits now days are at paltery 1.5% of that,

15% will be with held as tax,

the THB is very strong now, wait for it to come down, and bring only

what you need....

A persons residency or non-residency in Thailand has nothing to do with opening a non-resident bank account, I've held a non-resident bank account for over 15 years, as well as other resident accounts. 

 

Tax paid on savings can be recovered at year end by filing a simple tax return, interest income on the first 150k can be recovered in this way.

 

Funds remitted to Thailand from overseas, during the year they were earned, technically are taxable, in practise they are not. Savings remitted to Thailand are not taxable.

Edited November 21, 2017 by simoh1490

[lopburi3]

Quote

Funds remitted to Thailand from overseas, during the year they were earned, technically are taxable, in practise they are not. Savings remitted to Thailand are not taxable.

Actually believe you will find that is current policy rather than the law.  My reading of the law is worldwide income is taxable unless exempted by treaty with no mention of savings.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually believe you will find that is current policy rather than the law.  My reading of the law is worldwide income is taxable unless exempted by treaty with no mention of savings.

I don't know it's tax law or policy, either way it is not being enforced and there doesn't appear to be a mechanism in place to enforce it.

 

Worldwide income vs savings is hugely tricky, was it earned or was it saved, until all Revenue Department globally are connected it's going to be difficult to decide on that point. Pension income is earned, investment income is earned, investment capital is not, house sale proceeds are...????.

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I don't know it's tax law or policy, either way it is not being enforced and there doesn't appear to be a mechanism in place to enforce it.

 

Worldwide income vs savings is hugely tricky, was it earned or was it saved, until all Revenue Department globally are connected it's going to be difficult to decide on that point. Pension income is earned, investment income is earned, investment capital is not, house sale proceeds are...????.

 

 

 

 

Exactly -  and undefined is not what people want in their old age - so best to avoid such issues when possible.

[Naam]

42 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Quote

Funds remitted to Thailand from overseas, during the year they were earned, technically are taxable, in practise they are not. Savings remitted to Thailand are not taxable.

Actually believe you will find that is current policy rather than the law.  My reading of the law is worldwide income is taxable unless exempted by treaty with no mention of savings.

there is no explicit mentioning that transfer from savings are tax free. but the current policy is based on "taxed is income transferred to Thailand", i.e. transfers from a savings account is not considered income.

 

Quote

My reading of the law is worldwide income is taxable unless exempted by treaty with no mention of savings.

 

your reading/interpretation is wrong. Thai tax laws mention only "taxable if/when transferred to Thailand". the practice that tax liability exists "when brought to Thailand if earned in the same year" is based on the assumption "not same year = not income".

[Baerboxer]

Don't be put off by the merchants of doom Old Girl.

 

The biggest danger is swings in Forex and being caught having to change one way or another when the rate is unfavorable and you need a reasonable amount changing.

 

Spread your risk. I still get a better interest rate, a large amount of protection per account, and quite frankly often better service here than from the UK and Offshore banks. The latter becoming bogged down with catch 22 bureaucracy and low cost call centers that don't perform.

 

As with all things these days, change happens so don't teat any decision as a one off and monitor things. 

 

Hope you enjoy your retirement and welcome to Thailand.

[anono222]

It's a military dictatorship and your existence here can change without notice or recourse at the drop of a hat.  What that would mean financially; who knows?  Just saying.....

[lopburi3]

Do not believe the greatest dangers to be either of the above (for most).  We are human and change our minds; so that change should always be part of our consideration.  For most people that does not involve burning bridges that might be helpful for a move when we do change, or out minds are changed by events.  

[English Engineer]

I keep most of my funds in a multi currency account in Singapore. Keeping diifferent currencies reduces the risk in fx. Transfers to Thailand are normally next day. Singapore is an international financial centre with conyrols and runs a budget surplus. Why take the risk with Thailand

[Lucky mike]

I have personally had my Thai bank account drained by bank employee, yes I did finally get moneys back...no follow up and slow to repay......make sure money you bank goes to bank guaranteed by government for what it is worth !

[lopburi3]

Probably is best to avoid the National Bank of Nana.

[jippytum]

Why not .Compared to the UK for example the guarantees are far better .The interest rates as good as UK and the with holding tax reclaimable .If you hold some in foreign currency accounts you have a chance of gaining on longer term exchange rates . The Bangkok bank of commerce was the only bank to fail in Thailand during the financial crises because of fraud .With a 75000 guarantee in the UK main banks i.e. Lloyds  Barclays  RSB TSB  are still paying massive compensation to millions of customers cheated by poor financial advice.

[The Deerhunter]

On 21/11/2017 at 6:58 AM, Briggsy said:

1. Currency depreciation/inflation (reducing the value of your assets)

2. Exchange controls (stopping you taking money out)

3. Insider bank fraud (Not uncommon here)

4. Financial institution collapse (BBC)

5. Compensation limits (measly)

6. Data protection / Confidentiality (not respected, expect your bank details to be revealed)

7. Don't advertise your wealth (see no. 6, not a good idea here)

8. Poor returns when factoring in risk

9. Investment options (limited)

10. Asset management fees (higher)

11. Regulatory oversight (virtually non-existent)

 

If you have a significant worth, all of the above reasons not to bring money here would be less in Singapore.

 

The real question is if you had, say, 2 or 3 million US $, why on earth would you want to invest it all in Thailand? Who knows what changes may occur in the years to come?

 

I think this first reply should set the ball rolling and boost the activity on this site.

 

Totally agree except why not leave at home and bring it over if and when necessary.  Why Singapore?  All my bits &  pieces are still at "home" and I bring a bit over every month or three as exchange rates allow.

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, jippytum said:

Why not .Compared to the UK for example the guarantees are far better .The interest rates as good as UK and the with holding tax reclaimable .If you hold some in foreign currency accounts you have a chance of gaining on longer term exchange rates . The Bangkok bank of commerce was the only bank to fail in Thailand during the financial crises because of fraud .With a 75000 guarantee in the UK main banks i.e. Lloyds  Barclays  RSB TSB  are still paying massive compensation to millions of customers cheated by poor financial advice.

I personally don't think foriegn currency accounts are that good of a deal, there's a charge in lieu of commission if the funds are transferred out plus they are not covered by the deposit protection scheme. OK if you intend to always convert the currency to THB but what if you don't. Also, in many cases, there is an annual charge for holding the currency, all in all it's not that attractive.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, The Deerhunter said:

Totally agree except why not leave at home and bring it over if and when necessary.  Why Singapore?  All my bits &  pieces are still at "home" and I bring a bit over every month or three as exchange rates allow.

The downside is that you have to make frequent transfers and what if the exchange rate moves against you for a protracted period, as it did with GBP/THB which went from 75 plus, down to 43, that resulted in people having to leave the country and change their life plans.

[Naam]

42 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Totally agree except why not leave at home and bring it over if and when necessary.  Why Singapore?  All my bits &  pieces are still at "home" and I bring a bit over every month or three as exchange rates allow.

because some of us don't trust our governments who might change tax laws or don't like investment restrictions.

[bazza73]

You are better off having 10-20% of your funds here, and investing the rest in your home country. That's simply because you understand the market and financial institutions there much better than you ever will in Thailand.

Rent first. You can't truly own property here, because the land must be owned by a Thai.

[observer90210]

16 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

You are better off having 10-20% of your funds here, and investing the rest in your home country. That's simply because you understand the market and financial institutions there much better than you ever will in Thailand.

Rent first. You can't truly own property here, because the land must be owned by a Thai.

But what would be wrong with a 30 years renewable leasehold of land that many farangs use for property purchase ?

[bazza73]

Just now, observer90210 said:

But what would be wrong with a 30 years renewable leasehold of land that many farangs use for property purchase ?

Leases can be broken. If a Thai tells you he wants the house you built on his land removed, you are **** out of luck. You think a Thai court will support a falang over a Thai?

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, observer90210 said:

But what would be wrong with a 30 years renewable leasehold of land that many farangs use for property purchase ?

Absolutely nothing, especially if you are over 60 years of age!

 

30-year leases aren't guaranteed to be renewable but a usufruct serves the same purpose and doesn't need renewing.

[SiSePuede419]

Based on what I've read on T.V. for years now, bringing cash into Thailand is 100x less risky than buying real estate or opening up a business, like a bar. ?

[simoh1490]

Just now, bazza73 said:

Leases can be broken. If a Thai tells you he wants the house you built on his land removed, you are **** out of luck. You think a Thai court will support a falang over a Thai?

As strange as it may seem, Thai courts behave in a very similar fashion to courts in the West, despite what the chap on the next bar stool may tell you. The problem occurs when foreigners try to take shortcuts to circumvent the law and also when they sign documents written in a language they don't understand. But with a little care and a large dollop of common sense, it's actually quite safe out there.

[observer90210]

1 minute ago, bazza73 said:

Leases can be broken. If a Thai tells you he wants the house you built on his land removed, you are **** out of luck. You think a Thai court will support a falang over a Thai?

Obviously not. But what about large scale developpments all homes sold out and that have been around for many years, with a majority of farang owners? ...Agree however that there is always a risk, no doubt...and perhaps why many consider to only bring in the money in Thailand that you could afford to (perhaps) loose.

[bazza73]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

As strange as it may seem, Thai courts behave in a very similar fashion to courts in the West, despite what the chap on the next bar stool may tell you. The problem occurs when foreigners try to take shortcuts to circumvent the law and also when they sign documents written in a language they don't understand. But with a little care and a large dollop of common sense, it's actually quite safe out there.

I have a friend who tried to get a bank loan to finish a second house on land owned by his wife. Some kind of easement on the property which went to the local land office.

He played it by the book. He never got the bank loan, because the right person in the land office didn't get a brown paper bag. So they just stalled it for several years until he gave up. Let me suggest more than just a little care is required in Thailand.

BTW, I don't frequent bar stools.

[gamini]

On 21/11/2017 at 6:58 AM, Briggsy said:

1. Currency depreciation/inflation (reducing the value of your assets)

2. Exchange controls (stopping you taking money out)

3. Insider bank fraud (Not uncommon here)

4. Financial institution collapse (BBC)

5. Compensation limits (measly)

6. Data protection / Confidentiality (not respected, expect your bank details to be revealed)

7. Don't advertise your wealth (see no. 6, not a good idea here)

8. Poor returns when factoring in risk

9. Investment options (limited)

10. Asset management fees (higher)

11. Regulatory oversight (virtually non-existent)

 

If you have a significant worth, all of the above reasons not to bring money here would be less in Singapore.

 

The real question is if you had, say, 2 or 3 million US $, why on earth would you want to invest it all in Thailand? Who knows what changes may occur in the years to come?

 

I think this first reply should set the ball rolling and boost the activity on this site.

 

this is a typical Thai bashing comment and a load of rubbish. Ignorance too! The Thai baht is a very strong currency and most of the time has been so. if you want to live in Thailand, invest in the country. If your assets are in GB pounds it will be a good idea to dispose of them and bring the money to Thailand because the GB pound will go down further.