New cattles

[Ian1980]

We just bought for our farm 7 freisan between 4 and 6 months. Which is the best "food" suitable for them? Any advice on this or related to them it will be really appreciate.

 

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[changside]

Can friesian cattle live in Thailand?

[Ian1980]

Yes

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[jvs]

57 minutes ago, changside said:

Can friesian cattle live in Thailand?

Lots of Friesians in Thailand,the best breed for producing milk.

 

[kickstart]

@changside  , Go into 7-11 all the fresh milk there is produced in  Thailand, all the cow are Friesian , most are about 75-95% Friesien blood .

The Thai-Denmark milk group , their central regen alone  ,at Mortlec, Saraburi  ,will process about 100 ton of milk a day , milk coming from their own farms, cows all Friesian.

In my area , Lopburi about a 100 ton a day is produced and sent to  factories, in Ayutthaya and Bangkok.

Ian1980.

               What to feed your cattle ,could say also depends where you live ,I live in a big dairy cow area  ,and we are not short of different feeds ,I feed my cattle on  a 14% concentrate, brewers grains, Nappier grass silage  and , Leucaena  leucocephala  , the tree legume, or "Gratin" in Thai

 The biggest problem here in Thailand is finding good quality fodder, silage, hay,etc ,I would say 90% of cows/heifers/ yearlings, around here will eat rice straw as they main source  of forage  , not a good feed , low protein , and more important low in energy , and minerals.

Feeding rice straw ,you would have to feed a lot of concentrates ,to make up for the poor feed quality of the  rice straw, which will lead to cattle having stomach  problems, a 16% pelleted concentrate  will be about  10-11 baht/kg , and feeding a lot will make a hole in your profit margin .

You could feed a 16% protein concentrate, maize silage , they should grow ok plus some minerals , and a small amount rice straw, the long fiber will help rumen digestion ,if you can find brewers grains in your area ,a good feed ,Gut- Biear, in Thai.

Or if you have some land grow some grass , ask TV's Micale Hare about grass seed ,a good quality grass, well-mananaged, cattle should do well, plus a 14-16 % concentrate, plus minerals , also cheaper than feeding the above ration 

If you can find some Gratin in your area a good feed ,grows in fields and roadsides. 

[grollies]

1 hour ago, kickstart said:

@changside  , Go into 7-11 all the fresh milk there is produced in  Thailand, all the cow are Friesian , most are about 75-95% Friesien blood .

The Thai-Denmark milk group , their central regen alone  ,at Mortlec, Saraburi  ,will process about 100 ton of milk a day , milk coming from their own farms, cows all Friesian.

In my area , Lopburi about a 100 ton a day is produced and sent to  factories, in Ayutthaya and Bangkok.

Ian1980.

               What to feed your cattle ,could say also depends where you live ,I live in a big dairy cow area  ,and we are not short of different feeds ,I feed my cattle on  a 14% concentrate, brewers grains, Nappier grass silage  and , Leucaena  leucocephala  , the tree legume, or "Gratin" in Thai

 The biggest problem here in Thailand is finding good quality fodder, silage, hay,etc ,I would say 90% of cows/heifers/ yearlings, around here will eat rice straw as they main source  of forage  , not a good feed , low protein , and more important low in energy , and minerals.

Feeding rice straw ,you would have to feed a lot of concentrates ,to make up for the poor feed quality of the  rice straw, which will lead to cattle having stomach  problems, a 16% pelleted concentrate  will be about  10-11 baht/kg , and feeding a lot will make a hole in your profit margin .

You could feed a 16% protein concentrate, maize silage , they should grow ok plus some minerals , and a small amount rice straw, the long fiber will help rumen digestion ,if you can find brewers grains in your area ,a good feed ,Gut- Biear, in Thai.

Or if you have some land grow some grass , ask TV's Micale Hare about grass seed ,a good quality grass, well-mananaged, cattle should do well, plus a 14-16 % concentrate, plus minerals , also cheaper than feeding the above ration 

If you can find some Gratin in your area a good feed ,grows in fields and roadsides. 

Great advice and maybe the info you need before you go and buy calves?

[CLW]

I will hang on this thread another question.
How much area of pasture land is needed per one beef cattle. Cut and carry system.
I read from some sources on the Internet it is about 1 rai per head. Is this correct?
Assuming medium fertile soil and irrigation.
Is it a good idea to divide the whole area equally in grass, legumes and corn?

[Ian1980]

Clw this is something very interesting as our cattles are in less than 1 rai.

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[grollies]

As kids we kept 10 bullocks (beef cattle) on 8 acres of pasture. That's equivalent to 8 cattle per 20 rai. Say 1 per 2 rai.

 

This allowed for keeping the bullocks till 18 months old, bringing them inside in the winter and having enough pasture to make hay which they were fed on over winter.

 

If you buy-in your feed the stocking density could increase I suppose but, hey, this was a long time ago and I'm no expert.

 

7 on 1 rai? Seems a bit crowded.

[CLW]

Clw this is something very interesting as our cattles are in less than 1 rai.

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I assume you are talking about pasture grazing.
There are two different systems.
Cut + carry and grazing.
I may add to my post that to increase protein and energy ratio some concentrate can be bought from outside but as less as possible to keep the costs down.
Let's wait what the experts have to say...

[kickstart]

grollies  using the term bullocks you must be from the UK  10 head on 8 acres  , plus making hay , you did well ,if the grass was a permanent pasture mix ,with some fertilizer applied, on a heavyish land, light land would have dried out in the summer.

That summer of 1976 , the hot one I was working on a farm ,on light land and grass all but died we had 20 cattle on 15 acres,grazing only ,by end of July to September  we where feeding them pea straw ,all we had ,our system was like yours , grazing   cattle in the summer  then fattening  them in the winter.

Here in LOS, about the same, last year being a drought our "grazing year"was about 2 months ,feeding cattle the whole time ,this year best grazing year we have had for years ,grass most of the year , still  feeding our cattle concentrate  grass , not very good quality , but not as much as last year .

So CLW, your keyword was irrigation, and grass quality if you have say DLD grass seed, probably purple guinea , or ruzie , you would need 1rie/ head, especially if you have no irrigation and on light land , like me in 1976 , and here last year.

If you have some of Michal Hare's grass seed, the high protein ones, they would outperform the DLD  grass seed, even on non irrigated  land ,so you would need less than a  rie/head,if irrigation is available ,I would say 1/2 rie head ,but you  would have to be putting on 300 units of  fertilizer /year,your fertilizer bill might be a bit high ,you would save  more than that on reduced  concentrate cost ,this would be on a cut and cart system .

When we first started rearing cattle, here  in LOS, we brought in dairy heifers, feed them up got them in the calf and sold them ,I had them on a grazing system from May to September ,but still feeding some concentrate , and some maize silage,I had 2 paddocks ,which I striped  grazed, on a 21 day rotation appling fertilizer regulaey, like a system I used in the uk , the uk system worked here, some times it worked, some times it did not , the land was light ,grass was Ruzie seed from the DLD.

Problems, most years we have a drought ,you put ferlizer on ,no rain 10-12 days latter fertilizer still on the suface ,could not get a 21 day rotation ,had to shut the paddocks  and feed the cattle, the other problem ,we never had in the uk ,the rainy season ,our cattal have graizeing  acsses 24/7 .do not like shuting cattle up at night ,like Thais do ,more than once we  had a thuder storm 25-30 mm of rain in one go at night time ,go out the followling  morning ,the grass paddock was like a ploughed field ,cattle poached the field badly ,had to keep the cattle in the shed for a few days for the field to dry out , and  having to  feed them .

So for me the above system did not work over well ,I would say here in Thailand have a grazing system during the day and if conditions allow grazie them at night time, and a cut and cart system when cattle can not graze .

But when cattle are grazing, what do you do with the cut and cart grass that is still growing? , make it in to silage?

 

 Ian 1980, you are almost on a feedlot system, buying in all feed ,ok now ,but in a years time as thay grow thay  will start to get expensive, if they grow well at 18 months could well sell them , get your money back , could well work.

A cut and cart system using grass would work , but you might not sell the cattle until they are 2 years old, less feed, but more fertilizer, higher labor inputs

CLW, divide the field, grass, legume, corn ,why not grow grass and legume together ,as you know  a legume will provide some N,to the grass thay should complement one another, in the uk we have a seed mixes  of 4-5 grass veritys, one legume, and may be 2 veritys that are hardy and  will still grow  if the land drys out in the summer, and say 2 verityes that will get going quickly in the spring for an early bite ,I think it would work over here , why Thai's only grow one veritye  of grass seed I do not Know ,do not put all your eggs in one barsket .

Why grow corn, to make silage ? grow nappier cut no more than 50-60 days old , the problem with maize silage kept a long time rats will eat into the bags ,I have no problems with rats in grass silage .

 

[CLW]

grollies  using the term bullocks you must be from the UK  10 head on 8 acres  , plus making hay , you did well ,if the grass was a permanent pasture mix ,with some fertilizer applied, on a heavyish land, light land would have dried out in the summer.
That summer of 1976 , the hot one I was working on a farm ,on light land and grass all but died we had 20 cattle on 15 acres,grazing only ,by end of July to September  we where feeding them pea straw ,all we had ,our system was like yours , grazing   cattle in the summer  then fattening  them in the winter.
Here in LOS, about the same, last year being a drought our "grazing year"was about 2 months ,feeding cattle the whole time ,this year best grazing year we have had for years ,grass most of the year , still  feeding our cattle concentrate  grass , not very good quality , but not as much as last year .
So CLW, your keyword was irrigation, and grass quality if you have say DLD grass seed, probably purple guinea , or ruzie , you would need 1rie/ head, especially if you have no irrigation and on light land , like me in 1976 , and here last year.
If you have some of Michal Hare's grass seed, the high protein ones, they would outperform the DLD  grass seed, even on non irrigated  land ,so you would need less than a  rie/head,if irrigation is available ,I would say 1/2 rie head ,but you  would have to be putting on 300 units of  fertilizer /year,your fertilizer bill might be a bit high ,you would save  more than that on reduced  concentrate cost ,this would be on a cut and cart system .
When we first started rearing cattle, here  in LOS, we brought in dairy heifers, feed them up got them in the calf and sold them ,I had them on a grazing system from May to September ,but still feeding some concentrate , and some maize silage,I had 2 paddocks ,which I striped  grazed, on a 21 day rotation appling fertilizer regulaey, like a system I used in the uk , the uk system worked here, some times it worked, some times it did not , the land was light ,grass was Ruzie seed from the DLD.
Problems, most years we have a drought ,you put ferlizer on ,no rain 10-12 days latter fertilizer still on the suface ,could not get a 21 day rotation ,had to shut the paddocks  and feed the cattle, the other problem ,we never had in the uk ,the rainy season ,our cattal have graizeing  acsses 24/7 .do not like shuting cattle up at night ,like Thais do ,more than once we  had a thuder storm 25-30 mm of rain in one go at night time ,go out the followling  morning ,the grass paddock was like a ploughed field ,cattle poached the field badly ,had to keep the cattle in the shed for a few days for the field to dry out , and  having to  feed them .
So for me the above system did not work over well ,I would say here in Thailand have a grazing system during the day and if conditions allow grazie them at night time, and a cut and cart system when cattle can not graze .
But when cattle are grazing, what do you do with the cut and cart grass that is still growing? , make it in to silage?
 
 Ian 1980, you are almost on a feedlot system, buying in all feed ,ok now ,but in a years time as thay grow thay  will start to get expensive, if they grow well at 18 months could well sell them , get your money back , could well work.
A cut and cart system using grass would work , but you might not sell the cattle until they are 2 years old, less feed, but more fertilizer, higher labor inputs
CLW, divide the field, grass, legume, corn ,why not grow grass and legume together ,as you know  a legume will provide some N,to the grass thay should complement one another, in the uk we have a seed mixes  of 4-5 grass veritys, one legume, and may be 2 veritys that are hardy and  will still grow  if the land drys out in the summer, and say 2 verityes that will get going quickly in the spring for an early bite ,I think it would work over here , why Thai's only grow one veritye  of grass seed I do not Know ,do not put all your eggs in one barsket .
Why grow corn, to make silage ? grow nappier cut no more than 50-60 days old , the problem with maize silage kept a long time rats will eat into the bags ,I have no problems with rats in grass silage .
 

Thanks KS. As always an competent and informative reply [emoji4]