Jomtien/Chonburi TM30 fines galore

[opporna]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

I have had 3 retirement extensions, back-to-back as a renter.

 

My friend has had 5 retirement extensions, back to back as a condo owner.

 

Another had several retirement extensions, back to back until 2 years ago when he picked up work and went on the marriage extension route.

 

All of us dealing with Jomtien immigration and none of us ever filing or ever being asked for a TM30.

Thanks for first-hand information.

[jamie2009]

17 minutes ago, opporna said:

I'm about to go in for my annual extension of stay at Jomtien--this will be my third one from retirement, previously many years were for work permits. I own my own condo have reported every 90 days dutifully, but I'm worried that I can never recall having done a tm30, though when I bought my condo years ago I informed them that I had moved. If I go in now, am I in danger of being flagged for this? I've read many reports of people being flagged, but I'm not sure about my specific case.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

I have done a few Extensions, a 90 Day Report and Re Entry Permits, the only reason I got pulled I voluntarily went to notify Immigration of a change of address, initially a 3500 Baht fine but they let me off after 2/3 hours of questioning.

 

[opporna]

3 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

I have done a few Extensions, a 90 Day Report and Re Entry Permits, the only reason I got pulled I voluntarily went to notify Immigration of a change of address, initially a 3500 Baht fine but they let me off after 2/3 hours of questioning.

Wow. Sounds like quite the hassle. So it's impossible to change addresses now? What the hell are they doing?

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by opporna

[jamie2009]

3 minutes ago, opporna said:

Wow. Sounds like quite the hassle. So it's impossible to change addresses now? What the hell are they doing?

If you don’t volunteer they won’t know, if every person went to Jomtien they couldn’t cope, how many Farang come and go every week/month.

 

3 minutes ago, opporna said:

 

 

[opporna]

Perhaps it would be better if everyone went, thus exposing the impossibility of what they ask for. Sorry, I was just dreaming a bit.

[BritTim]

33 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

On 12/8/2017 at 10:41 PM, BritTim said:

I am well aware that there is widespread and disgusting corruption among officials in Thailand. However, many of those same officials are not without sympathy for those totally unable to help themselves.

I think the rumored 15 k - 30 k baht annual "sweetener" carries a lot more weight than any sympathy.

When they think people can pay, I agree. The people I was referring to would have great difficulty raising 2,000 baht, let alone 15,000-30,000.

[JackThompson]

 

 

18 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I have had 3 retirement extensions, back-to-back as a renter.

 

My friend has had 5 retirement extensions, back to back as a condo owner.

 

Another had several retirement extensions, back to back until 2 years ago when he picked up work and went on the marriage extension route.

 

All of us dealing with Jomtien immigration and none of us ever filing or ever being asked for a TM30.

I am very skeptical of the last part, having dealt with the family-desk.  They want the TM-30 up-to-date, and even more landlord-docs on top of that.  Maybe this was over a year ago?

 

The retirement-cases match what some others have reported.  That seems to be a friendly desk at Jomtien, along with the Tourist desk.

[Suradit69]

On 12/6/2017 at 1:33 PM, tgeezer said:

If you had objected at the time by claiming that you couldn’t pay you would know more now.

 

On 12/6/2017 at 7:05 PM, tgeezer said:

Not at all, simply suggest that it is too much, haggle for goodness sake.

Saying "you couldn't pay" and haggling, for goodness sake, are not the same thing.

 

Aside from that, haggling in the market and haggling with immigrations are worlds apart and announcing you can't pay a fine is in a different universe. I've had nothing but positive experiences with immigrations and would not want to change that by bickering over a few baht if I ever were fined and I can't see myself haggling over 10 baht in the market. 

 

By the way if, as you leave, you've heard market vendors calling after you , "kee niaow," they're not bidding you a safe journey. 

[tgeezer]

Most people are claiming that these fines are corrupt, I am merely suggesting that he find out if they are open to negotiation.
I have never had any trader call me kee niaow, where I live they do not behave like hookers.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[tonray]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

By the way if, as you leave, you've heard market vendors calling after you , "kee niaow," they're not bidding you a safe journey. 

Usually they are yelling "Khao Niaw" because I always forget the sticky rice !

[opporna]

I submitted my papers today. The line was crazy. I went about 10:30, and they said come back at 1 pm because the queue is full. I came back 12:30, got up to the desk about 1 pm and got a number. I was out before 2 pm after submitting documents and paying with the instruction to come back at 2 pm tomorrow to pick up my passport.

 

My situation again, have my own condo, have been reporting 90 days regularly. At some point when I moved to my condo from renting a place, I went in and told them (years ago) and got a new 90 day thing going. I can't remember ever receiving a tm30, but have been faithful with 90 day reports.

 

I'm not expecting problems tomorrow. I will report back if there are any.

Edited December 13, 2017 by opporna

[balo]

I also visited today to get a re-entry stamp .  Lots of people in the morning , but not too bad, I got my passport back after 40 minutes. 

[Djw6]

On 12/6/2017 at 1:32 PM, JackThompson said:

I experienced something similar once - the wrong address in their computerized system, to spite my having done a TM-30 update with the new address.  The proof-slip in my passport saved me.

 

Be sure they write the correct address on your passport-slip - may need to translate the street from Thai, but the numbers are Western on mine.  If you loose your proof, then no way to show you actually did the reporting, since it appears the data-entry is not being updated consistently.

 

I haven't heard that one at Jomtien - agents out-front now - or the guys next door?

If you only do a 1 day border crossing do you have to declare your same address?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Djw6 said:

If you only do a 1 day border crossing do you have to declare your same address?

Ask your local immigration office. The policy on this varies between offices.

[Kerryd]

I found this thread because a friend just called me (seriously !) to ask about this TM30 thing.
He comes over every year for about 6 months during the "winter" and rents an apartment (not a condo). He heard something about needing a TM30 on the radio, found a link, printed one out and took it to the building owner but the owner told him he had to fill it out and take it to immigration himself.

Now my friend is worried he's going to get fined but in reality, shouldn't the building owner have reported my friend staying there within 24 hours of him arriving ? If so, why would the renter need to also report that he is staying there ? Especially if it has also already been reported on his TM6 arrival card.

I imagine it's quite likely that the building owner has not been reporting foreigners who've been renting from (him/her). Perhaps that is why (he/she) expects my friend to do it (and pay any fine that may result). 

The other problem is, I've been here for years and this is the first I've heard of this form and requirement. I can only imagine that there are 10s of thousands of others who have also never heard of this in addition to thousands of "landlords" (Thai and foreign). 

This is also the first I've heard about having to report to the local police (within 48 hours) if I travel somewhere in the country for more than 24 hours ! In the future I'll have to make sure I don't stay in one place for more than 24 hours when I'm travelling around the country ! 
The good news seems to be that if I do travel "in country" I don't need to submit any forms when I come home.

 

I still find it odd though that if I leave the country (say to spend a week in Laos or Cambodia), I fill out my home address on the TM6 when I come back through Immigration and then am supposed to fill out a TM30 and submit that within 24 hours of getting home, to tell Immigration that I am at the address I already told them I was going to be when I submitted the TM6 at the border ?

I know that I don't need to do a new 90 day report if I leave (the country) and come back after my last "due date" as the departing/arriving resets the 90 day "clock" (was still a little nervous the first time but the IO simply scanned the bar code from my new TM6 and printed out a slip with my new 90 date).

Seems redundant that I'd have to report my address, then the next day report it again, when it should already be "in the system" along with my 90 day info. (Keeping in mind that a lot of us have verified our addresses many times in the past when they brought out that other form that we had to fill out every time we went to do our 90 day reports.)

[JackThompson]

38 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

I found this thread because a friend just called me (seriously !) to ask about this TM30 thing.
He comes over every year for about 6 months during the "winter" and rents an apartment (not a condo). He heard something about needing a TM30 ...

Regardless of who "should" be doing it - if he will need something from immigration (extension, 90-day report, etc), and lives where the local immigration office enforces this for those seeking the service he will need, then he should report.  

 

I apologize for not being able to be more specific, given the inconsistency on this issue - from one office to another - and even at specific offices, over time.

[jojothai]

On 12/14/2017 at 3:52 PM, Kerryd said:

I found this thread because a friend just called me (seriously !) to ask about this TM30 thing.
 

FYI, from many internet articles and TV posts it has been repeatedly stated that the TM6 does not cover the notification. Best not consider that argument.

There's a variety of issues stemming from the requirement discussed at length on TV posts.

Recommend that you read some more articles from Googling TM30 Notification of residence (or similar), 

Yes it is astounding and impractical, but that's what it is.

 

Some places enforce. Then hit and miss. Check posts here on TV the best you can for specific districts.

If you cant find anything then try adding a post on here stating which district it is.

 

eg Many people confirm that Bangkok does not seem to enforce the TM30.

(Although, at the information/query desk amongst the main piles of documents used they do have the TM30 forms)

Edited December 16, 2017 by jojothai
reduced the text

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post meant to deflect the topic has been removed.

[tgeezer]

It isn’t one office compared to another office it is one individual compared to another individual. If your visa allows for a stay of more than ninety days then you report your address at ninety days, that is one form and you can do it by post. Immigration is not in the business of fining people for ignorance of the rules, that is why that film was made. This forum is not required reading for every visitor to Thailand and it cannot be guaranteed that every visitor has seen the film. Normal tourists do not have a visit to immigration in their itinery. There are people who need to include avoiding Immigration in their plans and have been doing it for years, they are the people who are considered fair game and who tend to be fined.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, tgeezer said:

It isn’t one office compared to another office it is one individual compared to another individual. If your visa allows for a stay of more than ninety days then you report your address at ninety days, that is one form and you can do it by post. Immigration is not in the business of fining people for ignorance of the rules, that is why that film was made. This forum is not required reading for every visitor to Thailand and it cannot be guaranteed that every visitor has seen the film. Normal tourists do not have a visit to immigration in their itinery.

Enforcement of the TM-30 is varying by office - confirmed per dozens of reports, now.  Even at the same office, the rules have varied considerably from week to week.  Chang Wattana still not enforcing it at all.

 

The only reason I wasn't fined for this, was that I read this forum.  You are correct not everyone reads this forum or may have seen the film - and the film's guidelines do not follow what is enforced at some areas, in any case.  So, yes, fining "ignorant" people (who could not possibly know better) is precisely what immigration are doing at some locations.

 

3 hours ago, tgeezer said:

There are people who need to include avoiding Immigration in their plans and have been doing it for years, they are the people who are considered fair game and who tend to be fined.

Those who "avoid immigration" never have to deal with TM-30 reporting at all - ever.  It is the other way around - those who go to immigration for legit-services are the ones who get fleeced.

 

Many decent people avoid some immigration offices/desks because of "surprise fines", moving-goalposts to backstop agent-schemes, and the rudeness one may experience, to spite being as helpful and polite as humanly possible. 

 

I support the goal of tracking foreigners in Thailand, and wish they did this more effectively in my passport-country.  Unfortunately, some immigration offices / desks actively drive people away - because they don't want to do their jobs unless there is "something special" in it for them.  This behavior makes Thailand less-safe, because it increases the pool of "unknown/untracked foreigners."