U.S. congressman Trent Franks resigns

[webfact]

U.S. congressman Trent Franks resigns

 

FILE PHOTO: House Freedom Caucus member Rep. Trent Franks (R-VA) talks to reporters on Capitol Hill in Washington, U.S., March 23, 2017. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Representative Trent Franks said on Thursday he will resign after two former staff members complained about discussions he had with them about efforts to find a surrogate mother.

 

Franks, an Arizona Republican who has served in Congress since 2003, said he recently learnt the House Ethics Committee had opened an investigation of the complaints. "I deeply regret that my discussion of this option and process in the workplace caused distress," he said in a statement.

 

(Reporting by Eric Beech)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-08

[ClutchClark]

I wish there were more details.

 

Was it not possible for these two accusers to simply request the discussion be stopped? Could they not find some pretense to change the subject?

 

Does no one else see how absurd these accusations of “discomfort” are becoming?

 

Adults used to have the capacity to deal with situations like this. What ever happened to that ability?

 

Is this the result of those safe rooms found on college campuses following hillary’s election loss?

 

Have people really become this fragile?

[Credo]

Of course there was more than just a discussion.   There would not be a ethics probe without more and since he has chosen to resign before it is concluded, you can bet your sweet bottom that there is more.

 

 

[ClutchClark]

5 minutes ago, Credo said:

Of course there was more than just a discussion.   There would not be a ethics probe without more and since he has chosen to resign before it is concluded, you can bet your sweet bottom that there is more.

 

 

 

If so then the additional facts will surface whether he leaves office or not.

 

It should be remembered that many women are attracted to powerful men and workplace romance is quite common. It would be naive to think propositions are not made in the workplace or that atleast some women do not respond in the positive to such propositions.

 

In our society, atleast from the time I was a kid, it has been the man’s role to ask the woman for romance. Part of this “game” involves the woman making certain flirtatious comments to indicate she is receptive.

 

What we are seeing today with this blood-letting is the entire courting process is being redefined and accepted social norms of a decade ago are now viewed under this relatively recent lens.

 

Its one thing to say the old practices must stop but its quite unfair to now destroy a man for practices that were acceptable at the time.

 

 

[webfact]

U.S. Rep. Franks to resign after staff members' complaints of harassment

By Susan Cornwell

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican U.S. Representative Trent Franks said on Thursday he would resign after two female staffers complained that he had discussed surrogacy with them.

 

Franks, 60, who has been a member of Congress from Arizona since 2003, said in a statement that he would step down on Jan. 31.

 

The House of Representatives Ethics Committee said on Thursday it had opened an investigation into accusations of sexual harassment against Franks.

 

The congressman said he was resigning because coverage of the committee's investigation in the "current cultural and media climate" would "damage those things I love most."

 

Franks said he and his wife had struggled with infertility and sought a surrogate in order to have another child after they had twins with a surrogate.

 

"I have recently learned that the Ethics Committee is reviewing an inquiry regarding my discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates, making each feel uncomfortable," Franks said.

 

"I deeply regret that my discussion of this option and process in the workplace caused distress," he said.

 

Franks denied he ever "physically intimidated, coerced, or had, or attempted to have, any sexual contact with any member of my congressional staff."

 

U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan was briefed on the allegations on Nov. 29 and urged Franks to resign in a conversation the following day, Ryan's office said in a statement.

 

"The speaker takes seriously his obligation to ensure a safe workplace in the House," the statement said.

 

Franks, a member of the conservative House Freedom Caucus, represents Arizona's 8th Congressional District, a mainly suburban area of Phoenix. He won re-election in 2016 with 68.5 percent of the vote. Republican President Donald Trump carried the district by 21 points last year.

 

Republican Arizona Governor Doug Ducey will call a special election to fill the seat. The nominating primary must be held between 80 and 90 days after the vacancy and the general election must be conducted 50 to 60 days after the primary, according to state law.

 

Numerous prominent men in U.S. politics, media and entertainment have been accused in recent months of sexual harassment and misconduct.

 

Earlier on Thursday, Democratic Senator Al Franken of Minnesota said he would resign in a few weeks following allegations of sexual misconduct.

 

U.S. Democratic Representative John Conyers of Michigan resigned on Tuesday after accusations of sexual harassment were leveled against him.

 

Conyers denied the allegations, while Franken said some of the accusations against him were untrue and he remembered other incidents differently from his accusers. Reuters has not verified the allegations against either man.

 

(Reporting by Susan Cornwell; Additional reporting by David Schwartz in Phoenix; Writing by Eric Beech; Editing by Lisa Shumaker and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-08

[tonray]

12 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

Its one thing to say the old practices must stop but its quite unfair to now destroy a man for practices that were acceptable at the time.

This is cover-up speak. Instead of "discussed surrogacy" it was more likely....."Waddya think about me inseminating you so you can keep your job ?"

 

You do not resign because you discussed surrogacy (which would have been a paid endeavor)...more like either an implied threat of getting fired -or- adding sexual overtones to the insemination process to the discussion.

 

 

Another "family values" Congressman....ha ha ha

[ClutchClark]

20 minutes ago, tonray said:

This is cover-up speak. Instead of "discussed surrogacy" it was more likely....."Waddya think about me inseminating you so you can keep your job ?"

 

You do not resign because you discussed surrogacy (which would have been a paid endeavor)...more like either an implied threat of getting fired -or- adding sexual overtones to the insemination process to the discussion.

 

 

Another "family values" Congressman....ha ha ha

Any man that uses the term, “inseminate”, as part of his pickup strategy of the opposite sex should be removed from his career immediately for a complete lack of “Cool”. 

[ClutchClark]

23 minutes ago, tonray said:

This is cover-up speak. Instead of "discussed surrogacy" it was more likely....."Waddya think about me inseminating you so you can keep your job ?"

 

You do not resign because you discussed surrogacy (which would have been a paid endeavor)...more like either an implied threat of getting fired -or- adding sexual overtones to the insemination process to the discussion.

 

 

Another "family values" Congressman....ha ha ha

 

Your hypothesizing a bit too much on this topic to make the claims you have.

 

I would hate to see you run afoul of any TV rules.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Your hypothesizing a bit too much on this topic to make the claims you have.

 

I would hate to see you run afoul of any TV rules.

 

One is left to wonder. There must be a lot of undisclosed information regarding this forced resignation. Is it a kinda weird conversation? Probably. Is it sexual harassment based on what we know? Definitely not.

[ClutchClark]

3 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

One is left to wonder. There must be a lot of undisclosed information regarding this forced resignation. Is it a kinda weird conversation? Probably. Is it sexual harassment based on what we know? Definitely not.

 

Two mknths ago I would have fully agreed there was more to it but in this current climate I am not sure anything more tangible is even necessary.

 

The roots of our entire social order have been slashed to bits and all it takes is a very light breeze right now to watch it fall.

 

Besides, these female accusers are in a feeding frenzy  and out for blood. They don’t just state the events, they make strong personal attacks of the man being ugly, fat, disgusting, can’t get it up, etc..

 

I don’t see them having a motivation to hold anything back if it could draw further damage.

 

many of the claims are so weak that no laws have been broken and the accusers would certainly add substance to increase their credibility if they had any real dirt.

[dunroaming]

6 hours ago, Credo said:

Of course there was more than just a discussion.   There would not be a ethics probe without more and since he has chosen to resign before it is concluded, you can bet your sweet bottom that there is more.

 

 

Yes let's not take this at face value, it never is that innocent.

[spidermike007]

He resigned because there was a discussion about surrogacy? The war on men continues. This is one of the most outrageous examples I have seen yet.

 

There is an extreme moral deficit within the GOP. When an accused child molester, and accused statutory rapist, is treated with an entirely different standard, than a senator who is accused of groping, or kissing an adult from time to time, in an unwanted fashion, there is something wrong, something very wrong. The unfortunate part about this whole dialogue, is that Trump has introduced a new low for politicians. And he somehow did it, while talking about draining the swamp. Cute. It would be funny if it were not for the fact that it is so very sad, so pathetic, so purile, and so fake, and false. But, there are alot of people who are buying into it. Alot of my friends, who still support him, say they despise him, and what he has done to the party. But, they support him nonetheless, as there is no alternative. As a lifelong democrat (but not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination) I see how broken our party is. Hillary was the worst thing for the dems. She was the wrong candidate, at the wrong time. 

 

I think Franken should have stood up to the nonsense. He should have asked the women senators who were asking him to step down, how many times have you used your feminine wiles, to get what you wanted in life? And how many men have you slept with, to get favors, position, power, or money? How innocent are you women, really?

 

There are alot of accusations flying around. I am happy Franken at least brought up the moral corruption, and extreme degradation of Trump and Moore. Something for people to think about. This "war on men" in the US, is out of control. The women waging this war must be stopped. 

[spidermike007]

These are NOT normal times. What we are witnessing is an extreme war on men. Every accuser should be compelled to answer the following questions under oath.

 

1. Have you ever slept with a man, or a woman, in exchange for any sort of favors, money, position, or perk?

 

2. Have you ever used your feminine wiles to encourage a man to offer you a favor, or give you special treatment, or a promotion of any sort?

 

3. Have you ever offered any sexual favors, in exchange for any sort of perk or profit?

 

4. Is there any reason to believe, that you were not being put in a position of being propositioned by the man who invited you up to his hotel room, or invited you back to his house or apartment? Perhaps in exchange for a promotion, or some sort of advantage in your job? Why did you accept the offer? What made you think there was not going to be a sexual angle to the invitation? After all, you had heard stories about the man in advance. Perhaps you anticipated some of it? Perhaps you wanted it? Perhaps you were prepared to offer these favors, in exchange for something? Perhaps you DID offer these favors? How innocent are you, really? 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

"A war on men"? Probably about time!!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Mansell]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

He resigned because there was a discussion about surrogacy? The war on men continues. This is one of the most outrageous examples I have seen yet.

 

There is an extreme moral deficit within the GOP. When an accused child molester, and accused statutory rapist, is treated with an entirely different standard, than a senator who is accused of groping, or kissing an adult from time to time, in an unwanted fashion, there is something wrong, something very wrong. The unfortunate part about this whole dialogue, is that Trump has introduced a new low for politicians. And he somehow did it, while talking about draining the swamp. Cute. It would be funny if it were not for the fact that it is so very sad, so pathetic, so purile, and so fake, and false. But, there are alot of people who are buying into it. Alot of my friends, who still support him, say they despise him, and what he has done to the party. But, they support him nonetheless, as there is no alternative. As a lifelong democrat (but not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination) I see how broken our party is. Hillary was the worst thing for the dems. She was the wrong candidate, at the wrong time. 

 

I think Franken should have stood up to the nonsense. He should have asked the women senators who were asking him to step down, how many times have you used your feminine wiles, to get what you wanted in life? And how many men have you slept with, to get favors, position, power, or money? How innocent are you women, really?

 

There are alot of accusations flying around. I am happy Franken at least brought up the moral corruption, and extreme degradation of Trump and Moore. Something for people to think about. This "war on men" in the US, is out of control. The women waging this war must be stopped. 

My understanding is this whole thing is a witch hunt on Franken that is orchestrated by the Republicans after he went after Sessions. I called Franken's office today and urged him to fight instead of quit, and that a lot of people support him. The woman who accused him initially was coached in her accusations. But the Republicans attacked Clinton and Obama for eight years each while they were presidents. As somebody once said, "If you don't want to get pig shit on you, don't get in with the pigs." And believe me these people in power are PIGS.

[Rhys]

Must be an interesting time in the US workplace now...

[ClutchClark]

Rhys,

to give you an idea, here is a news article with a clip to show just how crazy some folks are about physical contact. This happens to be male-to-male.

 

YouTube here:

 

 

It can be found on many news websites but I included a link to Huffington Post:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pennsylvania-daryl-metcalfe-arm-anti-gay_us_5a271668e4b0c21176268df5

 

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, Rhys said:

Must be an interesting time in the US workplace now...

Not just the workplace. The Girl Scouts of America have warned families not to have their girls hug family relatives at Christmas for fear the girl will be worried later in life that she will have to put out if a man buys her dinner. I kid you not.  I have seen the future and in it, policy replaces good judgement. And there are no shortage of apparatchiks to disseminate a steady stream of more and more questionable policy.

Edited December 8, 2017 by lannarebirth

[Scott]

I don't know that I fully agree that it is a war on men.   I think it is a war on power and how power is used on others.   Of course, power and sex are related, and women are more easily subjected to sexual harassment than other men.   Men can harass other men, but it often results in a loss of teeth.  

 

 

[ClutchClark]

21 minutes ago, Scott said:

I don't know that I fully agree that it is a war on men.   I think it is a war on power and how power is used on others.   Of course, power and sex are related, and women are more easily subjected to sexual harassment than other men.   Men can harass other men, but it often results in a loss of teeth.  

 

 

 

Trent Frank is accused of making two coworkers "uncomfortable" when he discussed the problems he and his wife were having while trying to have a child and those discussions included surrogacy. There are no claims he "came onto" or sexually assaulted either accuser as far as I know. The accusations are not about sex but about making coworkers feel "uncomfortable" by discussing a sensitive subject. 

 

Have you read the accusations about Franken? Do you really see them as attempts at sexual domination?  I can see the validity of your argument with Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby where sexual intent was communicated but Franken has not been accused of anything sexual. Garrison Keillor of Prairie Home Companion was destroyed for one single instance of his hand touching exposed skin on the back (not butt) of a woman he attempted to console. Franken was not even in politics when these alleged incidents took place.  He was a comedian. He had no influence to exert.  

 

As for gender, what about the numerous Kevin Spacey allegations...all against Men and none of those ended in a bloodied nose. I am of the opinion that a man can be a victim just as easily as a woman. A man can suffer damage in the workplace if he offends his boss just as easily as a woman can through lack of promotions, poor job assignments, etc.

 

Sadly, I might even say HR and society are more inclined to see women as victims than men which further harms a male victim...a disbelief in his credibility of being a victim because of societies expectation that a man is to strong to allow it to happen. 

 

I do not welcome the new direction all of this is headed and I worry it is propelled by emotion rather than logic but since the momentum is too strong to steer or even slow down then I think its imperative that we recognize men are at equal risk of becoming victims. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by ClutchClark

[Scott]

I have no intention of getting in the debate.   With many of the men being accused of what many would consider rather benign behavior, I think it has more to do with power.   It's just an opinion.

 

Of course men can be harassed and are.   There is, however, a greater chance of a physical altercation.   Again, if it is a person in power, then the shape of the landscape changes.

[lannarebirth]

26 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Trent Frank is accused of making two coworkers "uncomfortable" when he discussed the problems he and his wife were having while trying to have a child and those discussions included surrogacy. There are no claims he "came onto" or sexually assaulted either accuser as far as I know. The accusations are not about sex but about making coworkers feel "uncomfortable" by discussing a sensitive subject. 

 

Have you read the accusations about Franken? Do you really see them as attempts at sexual domination?  I can see the validity of your argument with Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby where sexual intent was communicated but Franken has not been accused of anything sexual. Garrison Keillor of Prairie Home Companion was destroyed for one single instance of his hand touching exposed skin on the back (not butt) of a woman he attempted to console. Franken was not even in politics when these alleged incidents took place.  He was a comedian. He had no influence to exert.  

 

As for gender, what about the numerous Kevin Spacey allegations...all against Men and none of those ended in a bloodied nose. I am of the opinion that a man can be a victim just as easily as a woman. A man can suffer damage in the workplace if he offends his boss just as easily as a woman can through lack of promotions, poor job assignments, etc.

 

Sadly, I might even say HR and society are more inclined to see women as victims than men which further harms a male victim...a disbelief in his credibility of being a victim because of societies expectation that a man is to strong to allow it to happen. 

 

I do not welcome the new direction all of this is headed and I worry it is propelled by emotion rather than logic but since the momentum is too strong to steer or even slow down then I think its imperative that we recognize men are at equal risk of becoming victims. 

 

 

 

In a new twist I guess he offered a staffer $5 million to carry his wife's and his child. He seems to be unlucky to have found the one in one million women that wouldn't take that deal. I wonder what the ramifications would be had the wife proposed the arrangement.

 

https://apnews.com/ca905b7b6e264683832a038521f5353f

 

edit: Unconfirmed reports say the wife would not be participating in the arrangement. More to come I'm sure but that sounds a bit sketchy because there are all kinds of ways to become preganat, whether by clinical insemination  or implanted embryos and the Congressman already made some kind of statement about how he used extra embryos.

 

Rich people problems.

Edited December 8, 2017 by lannarebirth

[ClutchClark]

11 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

In a new twist I guess he offered a staffer $5 million to carry his wife's and his child. He seems to be unlucky to have found the one in one million women that wouldn't take that deal. I wonder what the ramifications would be had the wife proposed the arrangement.

 

https://apnews.com/ca905b7b6e264683832a038521f5353f

 

edit: Unconfirmed reports say the wife would not be participating in the arrangement. More to come I'm sure but that sounds a bit sketchy because there are all kinds of ways to become preganat, whether by clinical insemination  or implanted embryos and the Congressman already made some kind of statement about how he used extra embryos.

 

Rich people problems.

 

Any of these guys who are stepping down to avoid further scrutiny are misguided. The full facts will come out. But thats why we have the right to Due Process...so that all the facts have an opportunity to come out before we string someone up. 

 

I will look for the details you provide but $5 million is alot of money and its hard to believe his wife was not part of this discussion since she would one day have to accept the baby. 

 

Or he was hoping to play house with his female co-worker in the future and that would hardly raise eyebrows except he is a religious conservative. 

 

Workplace romance has been around for 60 years that I am personally familiar with. Its an accepted norm in society and understandable when co-workers spend more hours together than husband/wives. Its the theme of countless TV Dramas the world over so it seems to have been a largely beneficial practice to both the man and the woman. Now it appears that is changing. Well, we will have to see if such themes are still found in TV soap operas and Dramas in 5 years.

[lannarebirth]

44 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Any of these guys who are stepping down to avoid further scrutiny are misguided. The full facts will come out. But thats why we have the right to Due Process...so that all the facts have an opportunity to come out before we string someone up. 

 

I will look for the details you provide but $5 million is alot of money and its hard to believe his wife was not part of this discussion since she would one day have to accept the baby. 

 

Or he was hoping to play house with his female co-worker in the future and that would hardly raise eyebrows except he is a religious conservative. 

 

Workplace romance has been around for 60 years that I am personally familiar with. Its an accepted norm in society and understandable when co-workers spend more hours together than husband/wives. Its the theme of countless TV Dramas the world over so it seems to have been a largely beneficial practice to both the man and the woman. Now it appears that is changing. Well, we will have to see if such themes are still found in TV soap operas and Dramas in 5 years.

 

A few more details:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-gop-lawmaker-resigns-over-083451725.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews

[ilostmypassword]

56 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Any of these guys who are stepping down to avoid further scrutiny are misguided. The full facts will come out. But thats why we have the right to Due Process...so that all the facts have an opportunity to come out before we string someone up. 

 

I will look for the details you provide but $5 million is alot of money and its hard to believe his wife was not part of this discussion since she would one day have to accept the baby. 

 

Or he was hoping to play house with his female co-worker in the future and that would hardly raise eyebrows except he is a religious conservative. 

 

Workplace romance has been around for 60 years that I am personally familiar with. Its an accepted norm in society and understandable when co-workers spend more hours together than husband/wives. Its the theme of countless TV Dramas the world over so it seems to have been a largely beneficial practice to both the man and the woman. Now it appears that is changing. Well, we will have to see if such themes are still found in TV soap operas and Dramas in 5 years.

It depends on how you define "workplace romance". I don't think that pawing people against their will or repeated lewd comments count as such.

[ClutchClark]

24 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It depends on how you define "workplace romance". I don't think that pawing people against their will or repeated lewd comments count as such.

 

And I don’t recall reading Trent Franks or Al Franken were accused of either.

 

You are describing sexual harassment. I am saying that many office romances start every day by a man making a proposition of some sort to a co-worker and that co-worker consenting.

 

ofcourse, if the proposition is declined and the suitor continues to make attempts then it is quite clearly harassment.

 

Right now the reaction appears to treat all incidents with equal fervor whether it be a hand around the waist in a Franken photo or Weintein holding interviews in his hotel in a bathrobe and requiring a massage and BJ.

Edited December 8, 2017 by ClutchClark

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

And I don’t recall reading Trent Lott or Franken were accused of either.

 

You are describing sexual harassment. I am saying that many office romances start every day by a man making a proposition of some sort to a co-worker and that co-worker consenting.

 

ofcourse, if the proposition is declined and the suitor continues to make attempts then it is quite clearly harassment.

 

Right now the reaction appears to treat all incidents with equal fervor whether it be a hand around the waist in a Franken photo or Weintein holding interviews in his hotel in a bathrobe and requiring a massage and BJ.

I responded to a general statement and particularly to this rather strange one: "Its the theme of countless TV Dramas the world over so it seems to have been a largely beneficial practice to both the man and the woman."

[ClutchClark]

46 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I responded to a general statement and particularly to this rather strange one: "Its the theme of countless TV Dramas the world over so it seems to have been a largely beneficial practice to both the man and the woman."

Strange?

I was merely pointing out what seems to be ignored in the current environment...sexual and/or intimate relationships have long been a part of the workplace environment and are socially accepted as can be seen by their presence in every single Television Drama Series.

 

Those relationships typically start out by a male making the first move and that is often by a dialogue or friendly physical contact. That has been the way our society has defined the mating/dating ritual and that initial step has historically been left to the male.

 

Whatwe are seeing now is a complete re-write of the Rules.

 

If that is what men & women want then so be it but its an injustice to now interpret those once acceptable male actions from that era and hold those same actions against the male today under this new rule book.

 

Take it back another generation and John Wayne, Gary Cooper and every other leading male star who made a first kiss of the leading lady could now be found guilty of sexual assault.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by ClutchClark

[canuckamuck]

So this Franks thing is not even a sexual misconduct issue but an issue of asking for something significantly difficult, but with a very compelling compensation. 

If I asked an employee to paint my house which was perched on the edge of 300 meter cliff with high winds and I offered to pay them $5 million for the considerable risk and effort, Would I forever be at risk of being exposed as someone who took unfair advantage of my employees. 

Used to be people were made of tougher stuff. I guess we can't give people difficult choices in the new snowflake fairies and unicorns  dreamland. I miss the age of reason.

Edited December 9, 2017 by canuckamuck

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

 

A few more details:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-gop-lawmaker-resigns-over-083451725.html?.tsrc=bell-brknews

 

Interesting that his actions fall under the definition of “sexual misconduct allegations” since there appears to be no assertion that he made any sexual advance. 

 

He asked two staff if they would be surrogate mothers so that Franks and his loving wife could raise a child in a loving family environment.