Why do "defenders of the public" have to buy their own guns?

[webfact]

Why do "defenders of the public" have to buy their own guns?

 

Picture: Thai Rath

 

A policeman has gone on a constabulary website to complain about having to buy his own weapon.

 

The cop - unnamed but writing extensively on the Police News Varieties site - bemoaned the fact that in most other countries law enforcement would be supplied with a weapon to do their job effectively.

 

So why does the Thai state make them use their own money to buy their gun here?, he asked.

 

They are defenders of the public - don't they deserve to be provided with all the equipment to do their job? he continued.

 

Picture: Thai Rath

 

He said he felt sorry at times for having chosen this job when he had to queue up with hundreds of others for hand-me-downs.

 

Pictures were taken at an undisclosed location where cheap weapons were made available for officers. These seemed to be second hand from other officers leaving the force, retiring or who might have new weapons.

 

At least he was able to get a reasonably priced gun, he added.

 

Thai Rath, in reporting on the story, did not mention the huge amount of money invested in fancy new weapons that have been and continue to be imported from America.

 

Source: Thai Rath

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-12-22

 

[Basil B]

In the UK the police draw their weapons from the armoury at the start of their shift (or when required for certain assignments) and return them at the end of the shift, and they never normally take them home with them, they are not their personal property.

 

One advantage is there is an assortment of weapons available and the police officer can normally select the most appropriate weapon suited to whatever job he is on or going to. 

 

Unfortunately gun law in Thailand is getting like the states...   

[ezzra]

Maybe to prevent the situation where's every Monday and Thursday guns will get 'lost or misplaced'

by policemen who wouldn't really exercise due care because they didn't pay

for them?....human nature.....

Edited December 21, 2017 by ezzra

[Samui Bodoh]

It sort of pains me to say this knowing all the stories about police corruption in the country, but the guy has a point.

 

Having the guns issued by the police department seems to be simple common sense. However, I'd agree with the poster above that strict regulations would be required surrounding the issue.

 

A gun is part of a policeman's equipment. It should be issued like any other piece of equipment. 

[Somtamnication]

My service revolver was loved and well taken care of. Gotta oil them and shoot them at target ranges.  You **must** train with it and feel comfortable with it. 

 

I pity the BIB.

 

[Rhys]

For skeet shooting and drone marksmanship...

[observer90210]

Very unfair to make the Thai (or any other country) Police have to pay for their sidearm or basic equipment.

 

The issue is more of concern here, considering their low wages.

 

It harshly pushes the honest officers to bite the apple of corruption,  plainly to survive with appropriate tools for the job. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by observer90210

[gk10002000]

From what I have read and seen in movies, in the USA cops used to have to buy a lot of their own stuff, assuming what I read has any accuracy

[Oziex1]

Ok, when you decide to protect the public, maybe then you deserve to be supplied with a gun. 

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The cop - unnamed but writing extensively on the Police News Varieties site - bemoaned the fact that in most other countries law enforcement would be supplied with a weapon to do their job effectively.

Also, law enforcement in most other countries, actually enforces the law. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Bluespunk

[baansgr]

They recieve 50% discount as it is. If hes comparing the force here to forces in other countries, maybe if they acted the same and actually defended rather than rob the public at every given opportunity, he may gain some backing. 

[ramrod711]

Having to buy their own weapons, uniforms and motorbikes leads to "sponsors" who ensure that graduates are sufficiently in debt to them to ensure favors.

[jaywalker]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Why do "defenders of the public" have to buy their own guns?

For the same reason they have to buy a position on the police farce.

 

This cop is comparing durians to papayas (apples to oranges).

 

Sure cops elsewhere get their sidearms provided by the municipalities, but those cops elsewhere don't go around extorting the public blind either.

[Samui Bodoh]

It is very hard for me to justify defending the police on this or any other subject; my feelings mirror the feelings of several other posters here.

 

However, if you force them to pay for their own equipment, aren't you encouraging them to be corrupt? The money is going to come from somewhere- it is either from the department itself or from ill-gotten gains. I'd prefer that it comes from the department.

 

In studies of corruption prevention, one of the central tenets is to get rid of situations which cause corruption to occur. In this case, forcing the police to pay for their own weapon encourages them to steal. Giving them the equipment they need for their position is an element of corruption prevention; it won't put an end to the stealing, but it is a start. 

 

[canuckamuck]

The police department is a lucrative franchise, You buy your rights to wear the uniform but you have to supply your own vehicle and gun. It isn't long before the cash borrowed for the franchise fees is paid back and there is a brand new pickup in your driveway.

Edited December 22, 2017 by canuckamuck

[Muggi1968]

Wonder what they would choose :

1) Get free gun and keep it at the police box after work....
or

2) Pay them self and bring home so they can show how important they are ???

 

[DepDavid]

It is a simple liability issue. Get a weapon out of the armory and who knows how it is sighted in. Have your own and there is no excuse for not being accurate with it. 

[ChrisY1]

There's 150,000 new Sig pistols being delivered now......but probably meant for "elite" policemen....no doubt of which there are thousands!

[anon4637435435]

Question should be. Why are they allowed them?. Most arent responsible. A vast majority are just sons or relatives of pigs without morals and common sense. 

No wonder the public has a alot of guns.

[Bob12345]

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

Having to buy their own weapons, uniforms and motorbikes leads to "sponsors" who ensure that graduates are sufficiently in debt to them to ensure favors.

Exactly.

 

In my home country police officer are scrutinized for their debts. An officer with high debts is more likely to take bribes or put some ill gotten stuff in their own pockets. There is a lot of temptation.

 

In Thailand the corruption is probably expected so better put them in debt real deep so they show employer loyalty.

[jaywalker]

42 minutes ago, bsdthai said:

Question should be. Why are they allowed them?. Most arent responsible. A vast majority are just sons or relatives of pigs without morals and common sense. 

No wonder the public has a alot of guns.

Agreed.

 

Most of them don't even qualify for a whistle.

[klauskunkel]

"So why does the Thai state make them use their own money to buy their gun here?, he asked."

- well, in general you already have extorted that money from the public...

 

"They are defenders of the public - don't they deserve to be provided with all the equipment to do their job? he continued."

- to be a defender of the public: take your new gun to a pub after work, get drunk, brandish it, shoot somebody... gun baptized.

- or, as soon as you get a new gun, sell it on the black market to a criminal

Edited December 22, 2017 by klauskunkel

[Lupatria]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Why do "defenders of the public" have to buy their own guns?

Another question: How can high rank "defenders of the public" live in posh houses and drive Mercedes' on a meager income?

Edited December 22, 2017 by Lupatria

[canuckamuck]

It's funny that the public feels much safer when the defenders are not around.

[jaywalker]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

It's funny that the public feels much safer when the defenders are not around.

At least their wallets feel safer when they're not around. I know mine does.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It sort of pains me to say this knowing all the stories about police corruption in the country, but the guy has a point.

 

Having the guns issued by the police department seems to be simple common sense. However, I'd agree with the poster above that strict regulations would be required surrounding the issue.

 

A gun is part of a policeman's equipment. It should be issued like any other piece of equipment. 

 

The whole ethos is different. Police positions and promotions must be paid for, guns, motorbikes and all equipment must be bought, usually through a senior officer who can get a "good deal for you".  For many that means going in gets them into debt. But it's seen as an investment with the chance to make money.

 

Totally different to the concept of a modern professional police service. 

[VocalNeal]

9 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Police positions and promotions must be paid for, guns, motorbikes and all equipment must be bought,

Interesting? 

 

Do the police officers who drive the Hondas and BMW motorbikes and cars on the Chonburi Motorway have to buy them? 

 

 

 

Or are we talking about provincial village plod, here?  

 

In Asia although the system seems strange or wrong to "westerners" there is usually a totally plausible explanation which makes sense in Asia.

[Nakkers]

Many years ago, I asked a Police Major this same question.

His reply was that the members were issued with pistols but many would sell them and either go without or carry cheaper models. Hence the various types of weaponry on display  by rank and file.The solution was to make them buy their own. He had no answer to having an armoury and individuals signing out a weapon (if required) at the start of a shift.

[Samui Bodoh]

17 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The whole ethos is different. Police positions and promotions must be paid for, guns, motorbikes and all equipment must be bought, usually through a senior officer who can get a "good deal for you".  For many that means going in gets them into debt. But it's seen as an investment with the chance to make money.

 

Totally different to the concept of a modern professional police service. 

"Totally different to the concept of a modern professional police service. "

 

This is the root of my whole argument!

 

If you are not going to start changing the circumstances in which police join the force, you are never going to clean it up. Not ever!

 

Everyone would  like to see a clean police force. If you don't start with the little, controllable things, then you never really get started at all.

 

This idea that you must solve everything or do nothing is garbage.

 

[Baerboxer]

Just now, VocalNeal said:

Interesting? 

 

Do the police officers who drive the Hondas and BMW motorbikes and cars on the Chonburi Motorway have to buy them? 

 

 

 

Or are we talking about provincial village plod, here?  

 

In Asia although the system seems strange or wrong to "westerners" there is usually a totally plausible explanation which makes sense in Asia.

 

Depends on what job they're doing. Some jobs get to use nice resources like those guys on highway patrol. But they would still have to buy their own guns etc. My relations in the police tell me little snippets. So a "village plod" used his own pick up and scooter. But there were some police owned vehicles too, which he occasionally might drive depending on the duty.  He's senior sergeant major level. 

 

There seems to be a lot of anomalies, depending on area, duty etc. We have several relatives and friends in various different areas, divisions and levels. 

 

Yes, agree, things in different continents or world regions are very different. Being strange doesn't make it wrong; nor are the various Western police services the perfect models, far from it. 

 

I think all police services get associated with urban myths, and many believe what's portrayed in films and TV shows as being reality. For example, my eldest is completing her Masters in Criminology, Forensic Sciences and Policing. Whilst a final year undergraduate she went on a university exchange to the US, to North Texas. This included spending several days at, out and about with, the local Sheriff's Department. Her perceptions were totally different to ones based on the entertainment industry, which many relate to.