Face In The Office

[Bellatrix]

My (farang) boss asked me to edit a business proposal letter for him, and while doing so I wanted to double check a couple of details against our website, especially since the letter referred the potential client to our website. When I tried to do so, however, I found that our website was down as the domain had expired.

When I handed the revised proposal back to him, I pointed out a couple of changes I'd made, and mentioned that our website seems to be down. He asked why, so I said that the domain had expired, at which point he went mental at the girl who's job it is to do maintain the website (in front of everyone).

Obviously I've made her lose face, and maybe it's just in my head but it seems to me like she hates me now. I am responsible for putting together a lot of the content to be used on the website, so I have to rely on her to do things right.

Is there anything I can do to get her back on side or should I just forget about it?

[simon43]

Reregister your company website under 'www.itsnotmyfaultthatimsouselessatmyjob.com'

On second thoughts, that might not help

Simon

[singa-traz]

What a great team mate ...

[Bellatrix]

I know she's a twit and it's her own fault, but I've only been working here a week and could do with having the rest of the office on side. Or were you having a go at me?

Edited January 17, 2007 by Bellatrix

[steveromagnino]

My (farang) boss asked me to edit a business proposal letter for him, and while doing so I wanted to double check a couple of details against our website, especially since the letter referred the potential client to our website. When I tried to do so, however, I found that our website was down as the domain had expired.

When I handed the revised proposal back to him, I pointed out a couple of changes I'd made, and mentioned that our website seems to be down. He asked why, so I said that the domain had expired, at which point he went mental at the girl who's job it is to do maintain the website (in front of everyone).

Obviously I've made her lose face, and maybe it's just in my head but it seems to me like she hates me now. I am responsible for putting together a lot of the content to be used on the website, so I have to rely on her to do things right.

Is there anything I can do to get her back on side or should I just forget about it?

A tough one. Your boss sounds like a total bell end. I would recommend you go to the girl, and say in a fairly exhasparated way, Whew, I never thought he would blow his top like that, and imply that he is a bit of a bozo, but what are you going to do about it; he probably should have been checking about the internet renewal thing?! We are just the staff, woe is us, ah well, you want to go get some starbucks, I am buying.

Chances are that will put it into a 'us vs. him' context, and as the boss he is to be respected so that is that.

She knows she screwed up, let her deal with that without reminding her of it.

I wouldnt' try to be associated with the boss as he sounds like an idiot. however, you cannot directly insult him; perhaps point out in farang land someone yelled at you for the exact same thing; and then admit you cannot really understand why farang guys cannot contrl their temper, and act like spoiled little nancy girls.

[bkkmadness]

Well you say the boss is an idiot but you just don't know how important that web domain might have been to the company. If it's expired, a competitor could have it by now, might be stealing half the company's customers, so understandable he blew his top to a certain degree. And I bet the girl wont let it expire again.

[jomama]

She'll get over it. Good your boss expects professional people to do a professional job.

If you tip-toe around saving everyone's face THAT will be your full-time job, actually an impossible one.

Don't enable incompetence.

[dave111223]

Hopefully your boss isn't reading this forum.... as he might get even more pissed when he sees you posting about him yelling at his staff

And you can't really tell without knowing what position the girl works in whether or not she is a twit.

If she is just some secretary that someone once mentioned to her "Oh yeah, can you take care of the website", then you can't really blame her.

If her whole job is website related why is she still working there?

[Tarragona]

If you knew the domain hadn't been renewed, couldn't you have mentioned it to her first?

Maybe that's what you have to do - apologize to her for your error and mumble something about not having had a chance to mention it to her. Hopefully she'll see what a nice chap you are.

[kudroz]

Don't try to befriend with her, let her do her thing. Do not give respect to people who you work with who can't take responsabilities for their actions, admit their fault and commit to improve themselves. If she screws up again, lobby to your boss that he should replace her for the above mentioned reasons. Don't even try to go and explain to her what being responsible is like, she's Thai... they don't get it. Recruitment is a bitch, it's hard to find responsible thai people - but they exist.

[bino]

I beleieve that your boss would have been pissed at her anyway if he went to the website on his own to check it and discovered that it was down. The fact that you brought it to his attention is a good thing in that the company can try and recover the name and get the site back up as soon as possible.

Most domain registrars offer a generous grace period, usually two months I believe, and usually send multiple warning emails to the site owner before turning the name back to the public.

It is unfortunate that she is blaming you, since you were only the "messenger", but her incompetence / ignorance along with the person who checks the email account that is associated with the registrar (her?) are at fault.

I'd say ignore her... she may have lost face, but if the domain is lost beyond the grace period and a competitor has picked it up, she has cost the company a lot of face.

[farangsay]

If you knew the domain hadn't been renewed, couldn't you have mentioned it to her first?

Maybe that's what you have to do - apologize to her for your error and mumble something about not having had a chance to mention it to her. Hopefully she'll see what a nice chap you are.

Actually the question should be asked why the girl whose

responsibility it was didn't know this already.

Had she actually done any work recently ?

Whilst we can all have moments in our career

where we wish we had not made a remark

which dropped a colleague in it but this girl's

negligence seems a bit extreme.

She may resent you inadvertently exposing

her incompetence but surely somebody

would have noticed sooner rather than later.

If she does her job this well she must be a

dead woman walking job-wise.

Hurry up and wait.

[billaaa777]

I would ask her out to dinner to talk about it. Then get her really drunk. After she is drunk make your move back to your condo and have her spend the night. Make her scream like a wild cat, that way she will love you for ever. Just my take on the matter.

[roamer]

Well you say the boss is an idiot but you just don't know how important that web domain might have been to the company. If it's expired, a competitor could have it by now, might be stealing half the company's customers, so understandable he blew his top to a certain degree. And I bet the girl wont let it expire again.

I'm astounded, gobsmacked, run out of adjectives. "Understandable ?" sure his competitors could be stealing his customers, whose fault ? The girl maintains the website, chances are any reminder emails don't even go to her, you get quite a few. I have quite a few domain names, the reminders go to ME, if I forget anything as basic as a renewal its MY fault. I have a lot of experience in the industry and know that for various reasons most people make sure that domain name renewal goes right to the top and isn't left for someone else to deal with.

And if he delegated it and still didn't check, still responsible.

[prighas]

She'll get over it sooner or later. Don't do anything. Keep up your communication with her and never attempt to avoid her. She will soon realize you were doing this for the sake of the company.

[helicoptor]

I am in a similar position to you.. Working in an office in LOS and have been only for a short time. The first thing my boss said to me when I started was, "Whatever you do, do not lose your temper with these people, there really is no point"

...Its a pity your boss hasn't got this required attitude.

As you have only been with the company a short while, it is understandable you are keen to 'take the job in hand' and impress your new employer (as I was). There may be more to this than you think - The girl in question may have a history with your farang boss or it may be that this mistake is one of many mistakes she has made and he has had enough of it .

Forget this saving face BS - I personally do not think it is inherent that much in the younger, office working generation - I'm sure there are people on here who will argue this, however this is just my first hand take on it.

If I was in your position I would take the girl to one side and, as another poster has suggested, express your shock and surprise at your boss's reaction and apologise for mentioning it - but don't go overboard with the apology - she still has to realise that whether you informed the boss or not - she is still in the wrong.

They buy lunch for her and her colleagues - that should do it

Chok Dee

[OlRedEyes]

There is the issue of going to the boss without first discussing it with the person responsible for the matter. That will make you hugely unpopular in any culture, I'm sure.

However, the constant and, I am starting to feel, sickening harping on the so-called cultural issues, which are mostly used as a catch-all lame excuse for unacceptable behaviour, makes matters worse actually. I've found that the more I forget about the 'culture' and remember that i'm in effect dealing with a childish, lazy and greedy mentality (there's good reason for low wages here), the easier and smoother my interaction here becomes.

Would you be agonising over a minor employee's mood 'back home'?

Edited January 18, 2007 by OlRedEyes

[GuestHouse]

What many people forget is the Thai experience of working with foreigners, especially having foreign bosses.

Many Thais have told me that they thoroughly enjoy working for a foreign boss because, among other things, they are given far more oportunities and responsibility than they would be with a Thai and especially a Chinese/Thai boss.

Foreigners are far less likely to judge the Thai worker on the basis of a heap of Thai class issues and are far more likely to recognize and reward merit than regardless of the background of the person who is getting good results.

While that is a generalization it is one that fits many Foreign working practices in Thailand and Thais apreciate this.

So to my mind it goes back to that issue of just because you are in Thailand does not mean you have to do everything the Thai way.

Foreigners bring foreign ways to Thailand which are as interesting and stimulating to Thais as Thai ways are to us.

The co-worker will either get over this or she will not.

If she does not she might leave, and where is the loss when she fails to do her job anyway.

Bossess, shouting... My guess is I'm not the only one who has witnessed Thai bosses screaming the office down.

Remember, what Thais tell us about their culture is not necessarily a true reflection of what Thai culture actually is. There is a great deal of myth and more than a small amount of smoke and mirrors.

[steveromagnino]

Bossess, shouting... My guess is I'm not the only one who has witnessed Thai bosses screaming the office down.

Remember, what Thais tell us about their culture is not necessarily a true reflection of what Thai culture actually is. There is a great deal of myth and more than a small amount of smoke and mirrors.

Very true.

But yelling at staff is pretty unacceptable; if someone had a boss doing this in NZ about something, they would consider the boss to be a prize dork; especially if the boss was a foreigner. Same applies here.

There are ways and means to handle lots of things; shouting is the way to handle things when you are 5 years old and someone takes your piece of cake.

I think everyone appreciates a decent boss, and can forgive some errors along the way, Thai or foreign. but being a good boss is far more than choosing to yell (or not); it is about effective planning, delegation, monitoring, encouragement and communication; some Thais do it really well, some foreigners do it really well too.

[TizMe]

The girl maintains the website, chances are any reminder emails don't even go to her, you get quite a few.

This was my initial thoughts as well. Probably Mr Farang has been receiving the renewal notices for months and believes himself too important to have done anything about it.

[Oleg_Rus]

Hey, You do your job, and as long as you and that girl are not members of FreeMasons, Manson cult or Cosa Nostra family, you don't have to cover her hickups.

Even better, the Corp site expired ? Make her fired.

Go to your boss and tell him, that his corp presence depends on incapapable person.

I hate wannabes (.)

[Bellatrix]

'There is the issue of going to the boss without first discussing it with the person responsible for the matter. That will make you hugely unpopular in any culture, I'm sure."

I know. Normally this was what I would do but I was very busy with a million things and didn't think it through. I also didn't know for sure who's responsibility it was at the time.

Anyway, what's done is done. It's two days later now and I think I should say something to her about it, but I don't really talk to her anyway, so it might seem a bit wierd. If I mention it now will it make it worse or should I just forget about it? Right now I'm thinking of mentioning during conversation with one of our mutual friends in the office that I feel bad about it and didn't expect that the boss would get angry (FYI the boss didn't really make a big scene, and it was forgotten about 2 minutes later, but it would have been better if he'd discussed it privately with her rather than telling her off infront of everyone else) and that way, if the girl is mad with me, her friend might mention it to her, and if it's just my imagination (like I said, we never really spoke before anyway) then I'm not creating something. What do you think?

If it helps, it's just a small office with maybe 8 people, we're all in our twenties (besides the boss) and everything is very casual and informal here.

[bkkmadness]

Well you say the boss is an idiot but you just don't know how important that web domain might have been to the company. If it's expired, a competitor could have it by now, might be stealing half the company's customers, so understandable he blew his top to a certain degree. And I bet the girl wont let it expire again.

I'm astounded, gobsmacked, run out of adjectives. "Understandable ?" sure his competitors could be stealing his customers, whose fault ? The girl maintains the website, chances are any reminder emails don't even go to her, you get quite a few.

Well if the girl's job is to maintain the website, even if she didn't get the reminder mails then surely she should have noticed at one point that the website she is working on isn't available on the internet anymore.

She must have noticed when she typed in the domain name or the website she works on that it come up 'Page not Found' or 'Domain Expired'. Surely that's some clue there is a problem?

At any level, the most basic part of website maintenance must be to surely know that the site you work on is available on the internet. If any of my websites are not on the internet I know the same day, within hours of me waking up.

As much as I agree overall responsibility comes down to the manager, if I was paying someone to work on a website for me and that website didn't exist on the internet and they hadn't noticed that it didn't exist anymore I would be very pissed off too. So yes, certainly an understandable reaction from the boss if a bit over the top.

[bkkmadness]

Right now I'm thinking of mentioning during conversation with one of our mutual friends in the office that I feel bad about it and didn't expect that the boss would get angry (FYI the boss didn't really make a big scene, and it was forgotten about 2 minutes later, but it would have been better if he'd discussed it privately with her rather than telling her off infront of everyone else) and that way, if the girl is mad with me, her friend might mention it to her, and if it's just my imagination (like I said, we never really spoke before anyway) then I'm not creating something. What do you think?

Sounds like a plan.

I thought you said the boss went 'mental' before? But actually this wasn't the case, he just told her off in front of some people made her lose a bit of face and there wasn't much of a scene at all? On top of that it's a bit of an informal office, and the girl wasn't older than the other staff or in a higher position of the other staff she was getting told off in front of?

Agai, I have to say, understandable reaction from the boss though for sure he could have handled it better.

Edited January 18, 2007 by bkkmadness

[Bellatrix]

Right now I'm thinking of mentioning during conversation with one of our mutual friends in the office that I feel bad about it and didn't expect that the boss would get angry (FYI the boss didn't really make a big scene, and it was forgotten about 2 minutes later, but it would have been better if he'd discussed it privately with her rather than telling her off infront of everyone else) and that way, if the girl is mad with me, her friend might mention it to her, and if it's just my imagination (like I said, we never really spoke before anyway) then I'm not creating something. What do you think?

Sounds like a plan.

I thought you said the boss went 'mental' before? But actually this wasn't the case, he just told her off in front of some people made her lose a bit of face and there wasn't much of a scene at all? On top of that it's a bit of an informal office, and the girl wasn't older than the other staff or in a higher position of the other staff she was getting told off in front of?

Agai, I have to say, understandable reaction from the boss though for sure he could have handled it better.

Thanks mate. Yeah, I know I said he went mental but it was probably a poor choice of words. I guess he went mental by Thai standards but certainly not by Western standards! It was more one of those stern "Why the hel_l is our website down? Why did it run out? Get it sorted out right now!" that would have been pretty embarrassing.

Anyway, I think the girl is younger than the rest of us, and isn't any more senior, so there's nothing like that involved.

Thanks everyone for your comments.