Phuket beach banishment drama - hotel within their rights, say district officials

[FitnessHealthTravel]

No one owns the beach in Thailand. That's the rule. I'm guessing he was closer to their land than on the beach.

[Chris Lawrence]

They can put up a fence to the high water mark on the beach. That is where ownership of land should end as there is no point in owning land that is underwater. Maybe a Thai surveyor could give a better definition?

[Russell17au]

4 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

OK guys who believe it is not private. Let me ask you a question.

  I know people who own Islands. Is their beach part of the island they own or public? They feel they own it. And people who come by boat have to request by marine radio to be allowed to go on the beach. But if people stay below high tide mark the island owners know there is nothing they can do. Some people are aware of this and do come at low tide and use the beach with no problem. Some even have fires on the beach. But high tide comes  and all i s washed away like they were never there.

I also know people who own islands and it all depends on the location of the island.

If the island is located outside the 12 nautical miles territorial waters of a country then basically it is a country of its own because it is in international waters and it then has the same maritime 12 nautical miles territorial limit out to sea from the low water mark and no one is allowed to enter that 12 nautical miles limit without the owner of the islands permission

[ujayujay]

Off course some Hotels have private Beaches all around TH. With Land Title. Engagement to maintenence and manage this on her cost.  Some Blokes here have weird Fantasy about this. Its allowed to everybody pass this beaches but does not mean, to stay there.

[peperobi]

Private beach???? Till today was the information that I have "all the beaches in Thailand belong to the King"...What is the truth???

[CanuckThai]

If a hotel claims they have a private beach, and I pay a premium for "a hotel with private beach", then I would like to think it's a private beach.  If I'm "bending nickels" and pay half (or less) for a hotel, with no beach...then public beach it is.  Where's the issue?  I'd be choked if I was expecting the private beach, the "soi dogs" made camp, and wandering Chinese mega tours started a beach, kid crapping contest.... 

[crazykopite]

As far as I am aware there is no such thing as a private beach in Thailand although a lot of resorts  that are located on the beach front claim or advertise that the beach is private , it was always my understanding that all the beaches in the Kingdom belong to the King , is this not the case ?????

[Russell17au]

21 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

They can put up a fence to the high water mark on the beach. That is where ownership of land should end as there is no point in owning land that is underwater. Maybe a Thai surveyor could give a better definition?

I don't think that they can fence to the high water mark, I believe that they must leave an area as access for people to be able to walk through without walking in the water. I know in Australia there must be 100 feet clear walking space above the high water mark open to the public as an access

[Gillyflower]

6 hours ago, CanuckThai said:

If a hotel claims they have a private beach, and I pay a premium for "a hotel with private beach", then I would like to think it's a private beach.  If I'm "bending nickels" and pay half (or less) for a hotel, with no beach...then public beach it is.  Where's the issue?  I'd be choked if I was expecting the private beach, the "soi dogs" made camp, and wandering Chinese mega tours started a beach, kid crapping contest.... 

Or the elephants, or the one  that sells hammocks, or or or

[webfact]

‘Private beach’ in front of Dusit Thani Laguna Phuket

“However, after checking thoroughly, the beach that appears to be public land, is covered in the resort’s land deed all the way to the sea."

By Kritsada Mueanhawong

 

The video of Facebook user Aziz Yotharak, who uploaded a post of a tourist being asked to move from the ‘private’ beach in front of Dusit Thani Laguna Phuket, has gone viral whilst the resort denies that they ordered the staff to chase the tourist and his children off the beach.

 

The video shows the tourist with two children sitting on a mat on the beach in front of Dusit Thani Laguna Phuket, being asked from the staff of the resort to move out as the space is ‘private property’. The tourist also comments on the video that the beach ‘cannot possibly belong to a hotel’.

 

Meanwhile, Ma-Ann Samran, President of the Cherngtalay OrBorTor, has commented on the matter saying that he went to discuss the matter with hotel management.

 

Full story: https://www.phuketgazette.net/news/private-beach-front-dusit-thani-laguna-phuket

 

-- © Copyright Phuket Gazette 2018-01-08

[Nemises]

5 hours ago, Happy enough said:

top photo, sign says private property

Top photo also shows survey marker saying it’s hotel’s property. 

 

Sign says private property, survey marker says same, so why not just comply and enjoy a swim further up the beach. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Gregster
Spelling

[eddysmit]

I didn't think anyone could 'own' the beach areas in Thailand,maybe I'm wrong,I thought most were 'rented' from either the Buddhists or the local 'government gaffers',and as pointed out by another poster,the King,so called,owns all beach areas,again, maybe it's something I was told and believed,  from years ago,many down south Hua Hin way do belong to the Buddhists,or,that's what I was told by locals who were renting the beach areas. 

[wvavin]

Seriously, I really do not know what this is all about!

[eddysmit]

7 minutes ago, Gregster said:

Top photo also shows survey marker saying it’s hotel’s property. 

 

Sign says private property, survey marker says same, so why not just comply and enjoy a swim further up the beach. 

Probably because as cash gets involved all the beach could end up eventually becoming 'private'.

[eddysmit]

3 minutes ago, wvavin said:

Seriously, I really do not know what this is all about!

I think,shouldn't do that really, what's happening is 'big cash' is taking over,as it does every where,and the public areas are shrinking, it could end up with most of the beach areas becoming private.

[HHTel]

6 hours ago, oilinki said:

It would be nice to make the hotel/landowners and the officials to show on record, where does the property line go. 

 

 

 

There are markers showing the line (as shown in the pic) between privately owned and public.  From the pic it seems that there is a notice pointing out private land.

[HHTel]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

Beach can not be private land.

Yes it can.

[RichardColeman]

I'd go and stand in the surf just to annoy the hotel - or does the sea count as beach if you can stand up in it ? 

[Lupatria]

Get used to the common philosophy: I own this road, I own this women, I own the beach, and this is my country.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, johnarth said:

I have heard high tide water line is the point, but I have lived in a seaside city in Vic. Australia and the difference between winter and summer can be as much as 100 meters or more, and it seems the winter water line wins.

Historically (Ordinance Survey/Admiralty) it's the MHWM (Mean High Water Mark)

HTH

Edited January 8, 2018 by evadgib

[HHTel]

A while ago during the 'beach cleanup', the authorities in Hua Hin relocated many of the beach 'vendors' to Kao Takiap.  The land owners were out with measuring tapes etc to make sure they weren't relocated onto their land.  In a couple of instances, the hotel owners made the army/police move some of the redesignated areas by a few feet to clear their own land.  As has been said, there are survey markers along the high part of the beach showing were private land finishes and public land starts.  A chanote will show the numbers displayed on the survey markers.

 

Like it or not.  It's all above board.

[Bendi]

Just gotta love it. All those thavisa members posting their wiews..and wrong again..lmao??

[AlQaholic]

Some municipalities protect their beaches to remain public land, some sell the beaches, go figure.....

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, HHTel said:

Yes it can.

Only illegal.

 

I am sure this is a 'mistake' on the chanote, that will eventually be corrected.

[catman20]

8 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

do they have signs up that say  "PRIVATE BEACH"
if not .......

 

I thought (seems i was wrong now) all Beaches were kings land

thats what i thought also

[catman20]

3 hours ago, Trouble said:

It's always good to know that we have so many experts on Thai beach ownership here on TV.  

all contradicting each other 

[scottiejohn]

 

2 hours ago, johnarth said:

I have heard high tide water line is the point, but I have lived in a seaside city in Vic. Australia and the difference between winter and summer can be as much as 100 meters or more, and it seems the winter water line wins.

 

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Historically (Ordinance Survey/Admiralty) it's the MHWM (Mean High Water Mark)

HTH

The MHWM is the standard reference for all tidal information combined with chart datum.

Tides are the rise and fall of sea levels caused by the combined effects of the gravitational forces exerted by the Moon and the Sun and the rotation of Earth.  They have no direct connection with summer or winter.

[NOWHERE]

1 hour ago, Bendi said:

Just gotta love it. All those thavisa members posting their wiews..and wrong again..lmao??

Opinions. 

Never right or wrong, just personal. 

Thats where laws come into it, to over ride opinion. 

[eisfeld]

36 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Only illegal.

 

I am sure this is a 'mistake' on the chanote, that will eventually be corrected.

No. Of course you can own a beach. You can make an artificial beach somewhere in Isaan if you fancy it. And where does a beach start and stop? How far the sand reaches? What's the exact definition of a beach when it comes to land titles in Thailand? What if I put my own sand that connects my property with the natural part of the beach?

 

This page might give a better view on the issue: http://lantaislandproperty.com/lanta-property-buyers-resources/

 

Quote

ZONE 1: From high-tide mark to 50 meters inland (elevation below 40 meters above sea-level)

• For the first 20 meters inland from the high-water mark there may be no construction and there may be no earthworks at all (levelling or filling).
• The height limit is a maximum of 6 meters – measured to highest point on the building. (In Krabi, officials are approving 2-story buildings with a pitched roof, and are not strictly enforcing the 6 meters.)
• Buildings may take up no more than 25% of total land area – there must be 75% open space.
• Each building’s ‘footprint’ may not exceed 75 square meters; the distance between buildings must be 4 meters; and there must be a minimum of 2 meters between a building and the property line.

 

ZONE 2: From 50 to 150 meters inland (elevation below 40 meters above sea-level)

• The height limit for buildings is 12 meters.
• No shop houses may be constructed (residential row houses are acceptable but must have a gap equal to the width of each unit after every fifth unit).
• Building space may not take up more than 50% of total land area, leaving at least 50% open space.

 

I can't say for sure without visiting the site and taking measurements but to me it looks like Dusit Thani were careful (no surprise, they are not exactly amateurs) and are well over 20m away from the high tide mark and all the buildings within 50m/150m respectively seem to adhere to the law. Again, I have not checked this on-site but I've been to this beach and hotel before and have quickly checked some satelite pictures. The only thing that could get close to a violation could maybe be the height of their main lobby building. Not sure if that's higher than 12m, could be close.

Edited January 8, 2018 by eisfeld

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

No. Of course you can own a beach. You can make an artificial beach somewhere in Isaan if you fancy it. And where does a beach start and stop? How far the sand reaches? What's the exact definition of a beach when it comes to land titles in Thailand? What if I put my own sand that connects my property with the natural part of the beach?

 

This page might give a better view on the issue: http://lantaislandproperty.com/lanta-property-buyers-resources/

 

 

I can't say for sure without visiting the site and taking measurements but to me it looks like Dusit Thani were careful (no surprise, they are not exactly amateurs) and are well over 20m away from the high tide mark and all the buildings within 50m/150m respectively seem to adhere to the law. Again, I have not checked this on-site but I've been to this beach and hotel before and have quickly checked some satelite pictures. The only thing that could get close to a violation could maybe be the height of their main lobby building. Not sure if that's higher than 12m, could be close.

Your link doesn't reference beaches but building regulations related to water distance.

And sure, throw in a comparison with a personal beach artificially made in issaan, that makes sense.