income from digital assets on retirement visa

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

You talk about digital assets first and then about running a web shop with some minor work to be done. Officially you need a company and a work permit, which you can't do on a retirement visa. That being said, when the money is going to a bank account outside the country and don't need to post items via the post office here, the chances of being caught are very slim. 

i plan to move most of my operations to thailand, and get most of the payments to thailand, but not sure if i need a work permit and a company for that, cause there isn't much work involved and i don't need workers.

i don't mean to evade on taxes in thailand, but i also don't want to employ thai workers just so i can pay tax...on an income that i generate with little work..on my side only...hmmm...not so clear...the world has changed but thai laws stay behind. these days it is possible to generate substantial income with only 4-5 hours work - a week...so...the question is, again, will thai authorities require work permit for such "digital" income?

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

You talk about digital assets first and then about running a web shop with some minor work to be done. Officially you need a company and a work permit, which you can't do on a retirement visa. That being said, when the money is going to a bank account outside the country and don't need to post items via the post office here, the chances of being caught are very slim. 

isn't web shop a digital asset? i consider anything you sell on the internet as digital asset. it can be a youtube channel, photo stock, blog, add scheme, amazon drop shop, ext. - and it can generate nice income without much work, can be even 4-5 hours a week to earn 1000's of dollars, so i want to get all my income in thailand and pay taxes in thailand, but don;t want to open a company and employ thai workers just for ...paying those taxes...???

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

... i want to get all my income in thailand and pay taxes in thailand, but don;t want to open a company and employ thai workers just for ...paying those taxes...???

There is nothing to prevent you from paying taxes here on personal income remitted in the same year earned.  I do not know why you would need a company for this.  Some get tax-id numbers to file returns for refunds on taxes taken from interest-earnings and similar.

 

I also do not know any advantage to doing so in your case, since Thailand will not give you any credit for doing so (no additional visa options, no work-permit, and cannot use the taxes-paid to qualify for citizenship or PR). 

 

Due to the lack of incentives to pay taxes here, I keep this-year's income outside of Thailand, and spend income I earned outside Thailand in previous years (I have to pay the USA, regardless).

[elviajero]

20 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Although I do not dispute the labor-law as written, I would guess the lack of actual downside, and all upside, to remote-workers living/working in Thailand, is why this archaic labor-law is not being enforced in designated co-working spaces, etc.

Not really. It's because they have to let every foreign tourist 'keep up with their foreign based work/job/business" during their stay. It's a case of prosecute everyone or no one.

 

20 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Note that all "crackdowns" have been schemes to increase brown-envelopes / payoffs (ED, Elite, etc) - nothing to do with the issue at hand, which could be fixed very, very easily by going to schools and dive-areas and busting actual illegal-workers taking Thai jobs red-handed.

Every crackdown is because the very lax system gets abused. Corruption happens 'crackdowns' or not. They seem to prefer the softer approach so they don't inconvenience the many for the few looking for ways to take advantage of the system. And in most cases the "crackdowns" seem to work.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

There is nothing to prevent you from paying taxes here on personal income remitted in the same year earned.  I do not know why you would need a company for this.  Some get tax-id numbers to file returns for refunds on taxes taken from interest-earnings and similar.

 

I also do not know any advantage to doing so in your case, since Thailand will not give you any credit for doing so (no additional visa options, no work-permit, and cannot use the taxes-paid to qualify for citizenship or PR). 

 

Due to the lack of incentives to pay taxes here, I keep this-year's income outside of Thailand, and spend income I earned outside Thailand in previous years (I have to pay the USA, regardless).

I AM NOT a u.s. citizen. tax in my country is much higher than in thailand. so i prefer to pay in thailand.

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i plan to move most of my operations to thailand, and get most of the payments to thailand, but not sure if i need a work permit and a company for that, cause there isn't much work involved and i don't need workers.

i don't mean to evade on taxes in thailand, but i also don't want to employ thai workers just so i can pay tax...on an income that i generate with little work..on my side only...hmmm...not so clear...the world has changed but thai laws stay behind. these days it is possible to generate substantial income with only 4-5 hours work - a week...so...the question is, again, will thai authorities require work permit for such "digital" income?

yes, and you won't get 1 without a company and Thai workers

[FritsSikkink]

7 hours ago, Master Jairam said:

Is it possible to apply for a work permit when one is staying on a retirement visa?

no

[elviajero]

9 hours ago, Master Jairam said:

Is it possible to apply for a work permit when one is staying on a retirement visa?

Yes. It’s up to the labour office that issue the work permit.

 

However, if immigration found out they could, and probably would, insist the person changes the reason for their extension of stay from retirement to work. Worst case they could cancel the permit to stay based on retirement.

[observer90210]

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

Take into account that that leaving it in the country of origin could lead to tax liability in the country of origin. And many countries won't be as lenient with collection as Thailand.

Nonsense. Many countries are very soft on tax collection. You can check it by yourself on google.

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Nonsense. Many countries are very soft on tax collection. You can check it by yourself on google.

Nonsense, many countries wont be as lenient as Thailand. You can check it yourself on google.

[roobaa01]

living in thailand on extension of stay based on marriage dissolving my collection of books, paintings, stamps through a thai auction house say in 5 or 6 auctions each time auction sales 600 to 700 k .then each time repatriating funds oversees legally by bank tt. thereto paying commission to the auction house which incl. vat 7 %. is that considered work, is there tax to be paid ??

 

wbr

roobaa01

[tebee]

I have a similar problem. I'm contemplating a move here from Europe full time as Brexit has killed off half my business, currently I come  for 3-6 months each year.

 

I get my income from rental properties and royalties from the licencing of my designs. The latter isn't a fortune, averaging about $500 per month ( I'm paid by a US company even though I live in Europe) But it's from work I did previously - how would that be classified here? Wouldn't be working unless I took on some new commissions. 

 

I have a Thai wife and could scrape up the cash to put  in the bank if needed, so visa would not be a problem, it's  the tax position I'm  interested in. Intend to to leave the rental income in   European bank to pay for our trips back there.   

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

8 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

living in thailand on extension of stay based on marriage dissolving my collection of books, paintings, stamps through a thai auction house say in 5 or 6 auctions each time auction sales 600 to 700 k .then each time repatriating funds oversees legally by bank tt. thereto paying commission to the auction house which incl. vat 7 %. is that considered work, is there tax to be paid ??

 

wbr

roobaa01

i think that if you managed to TT the $$ out of thailand, than there was no need to pay tax in thailand.

but you might be asked to pay tax in the country where you TT the money, depands on the law and tax system

in that country.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

8 hours ago, tebee said:

I have a similar problem. I'm contemplating a move here from Europe full time as Brexit has killed off half my business, currently I come  for 3-6 months each year.

 

I get my income from rental properties and royalties from the licencing of my designs. The latter isn't a fortune, averaging about $500 per month ( I'm paid by a US company even though I live in Europe) But it's from work I did previously - how would that be classified here? Wouldn't be working unless I took on some new commissions. 

 

I have a Thai wife and could scrape up the cash to put  in the bank if needed, so visa would not be a problem, it's  the tax position I'm  interested in. Intend to to leave the rental income in   European bank to pay for our trips back there.   

legaly, you have to pay taxes in the country where you are tax resident, not where your bank is.

so if you plan to move to thailand, you will have to pay taxes in thailand.

also, thai law is that if you stay in thailand more than 6 months, than you are a tax resident in thailand

and have to pay taxes in thailand on ALL your income ALL over the world.

 

prectically, if the amount is not so big' like 500 USD amonth, than you can leave it in the

european bank and withdraw the money by ATM in or out of thailand. 

but if the amounts become substantial, say 10's of thousands of dollars each month,

or say you have big amount in a bank, than that bank might give you 

problems when you come to withdraw or the money, and ask you to show "PAPERS",

so best thing to do is - spend it all while you are still young and healthy !!

 

[tebee]

3 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

....... spend it all while you are still young and healthy !!

 

Been there, done that!

Was and overpaid freelance computer consultant for 30 years, earned lots of money, but not a lot to show for it now - though I do own four houses outright, so I guess I'm better off than most.

 

I'm trying to work out if we as a family would be better off living in Asia or Europe, my wide and Step-son are both doctors, but there is 0 chance of my wife's qualifications being recognized in Europe. Already have their EU residence permits so that's not a problem.  

 

Back in Europe my current income is below the income tax threshold, but here I guess not. The 25k baht a month  from my royalties would more than cover the extra costs of me living here, but not if I lose half to tax. 

 

Restarting the online sales business seems fraught with problems here, unless my wife runs it on my behalf.        

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Been there, done that!

Was and overpaid freelance computer consultant for 30 years, earned lots of money, but not a lot to show for it now - though I do own four houses outright, so I guess I'm better off than most.

 

I'm trying to work out if we as a family would be better off living in Asia or Europe, my wide and Step-son are both doctors, but there is 0 chance of my wife's qualifications being recognized in Europe. Already have their EU residence permits so that's not a problem.  

 

Back in Europe my current income is below the income tax threshold, but here I guess not. The 25k baht a month  from my royalties would more than cover the extra costs of me living here, but not if I lose half to tax. 

 

Restarting the online sales business seems fraught with problems here, unless my wife runs it on my behalf.        

You won't lose half of it in taxes if you decide to declare it,  if you do a Google search you can find out the rate you should pay,  it certainly is not half

 

The amount you state really is minimal and although people on here state that you must pay tax if it was earned in the same year the chances of the Thai tax man catching up with you are pretty much zero so it's up to you what you want to do

 

As a reference I have just declared a sum of 700.000 Baht coming in from overseas in the last tax year, my tax bill inclusive of lawyers fees and everything taken care of regarding dealing with the tax office, paperwork etc was 47,500,  I just left it to them, I have no idea if they claimed for personal allowances etc, I was happy with the amount I had to pay

Edited January 19, 2018 by darrendsd

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

On 1/19/2018 at 6:56 AM, tebee said:

Been there, done that!

Was and overpaid freelance computer consultant for 30 years, earned lots of money, but not a lot to show for it now - though I do own four houses outright, so I guess I'm better off than most.

 

I'm trying to work out if we as a family would be better off living in Asia or Europe, my wide and Step-son are both doctors, but there is 0 chance of my wife's qualifications being recognized in Europe. Already have their EU residence permits so that's not a problem.  

 

Back in Europe my current income is below the income tax threshold, but here I guess not. The 25k baht a month  from my royalties would more than cover the extra costs of me living here, but not if I lose half to tax. 

 

Restarting the online sales business seems fraught with problems here, unless my wife runs it on my behalf.        

i know few online sales companies in thailand who do very very well. they are owned by foreigners and ...bachelors.

but the decision to live in asia or europe has nothing to do with beurocracy...but a personal preference....