Join blue plastic pipwork underground

[JAS21]

Briefly …

Meter Reader  told me that I have a water leak … bill 2000thb instead of normal 250thb

Plumber came with acoustic stick and said couldn’t locate problem.  So stated from pump, digging etc  and located leak in the pipework  somewhere on one side of the house.

Am now left with, as picture … RHS is live , cap on LHS is to prevent dirt entering. Pipework is 45cms down and all clay.  He later said the clay is the reason that he couldn’t identify the area of the leak with his acoustic device … anybody know if this is fact or fiction?

 

State is now that have to rejoin the pipework … if it was me I would just  glue a 90deg on each piece, then make a bridge and then glue the bridge into each 90deg. Is there an alternative way to do this other than dig up sufficient pipework to allow flexing of the pipe to enable ‘slipping in’ of a straight couple.   

I’m just interested in case he suggests using a ‘thaiway’. He returns to progress this afternoon … so he said ...

 

He also said that we can go to the waterboard and ask for a concession on our bill ... we will need to show them pics of the repair work etc

Edited January 17, 2018 by JAS21

[Anythingleft?]

Slip couplings are useful when access is limited and can be found here, the less joints the better

 

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[grollies]

Acoustic listening sticks are a waste of time.

 

Go with your idea of 90 elbows to get the joint in.

 

Make sure your pipe is spotless and dry. Score the pipe ends with a hacksaw blade or similar before making glued joints. Backfill around and above the pipework with sand before finishing-off with earth. Oh and obviously test the joints before backfilling.

[JAS21]

1 hour ago, grollies said:

Acoustic listening sticks are a waste of time.

 

Go with your idea of 90 elbows to get the joint in.

 

Make sure your pipe is spotless and dry. Score the pipe ends with a hacksaw blade or similar before making glued joints. Backfill around and above the pipework with sand before finishing-off with earth. Oh and obviously test the joints before backfilling.

That's what I thought ... the idea of glueing up a slip coupling tapping it 2.5cm onto one pipe and then tapping it back 1.25cm onto the other pipe before the glue 'sets' sounds a bit tricky ...I have already bought the sand ..thanks

[Crossy]

Yeah, I reckon the easy route is the elbows solution.

 

Of course our Thai friends always take the hard way when given the choice of easy / hard.

 

Keep us posted on progress.

 

[JAS21]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Yeah, I reckon the easy route is the elbows solution.

 

Of course our Thai friends always take the hard way when given the choice of easy / hard.

 

Keep us posted on progress.

 

I have a long story to tell later... he arrived 6:30pm ..leak was located ...very bad access ... I said I'll cut the wall inside the room to get into where the pipe runs and you can run  a new bit of pipe ...NoNo I am expert I can fix ...1:30am job done and weeps ... today I cut the wall ...

[simoh1490]

Another option might be to replace the entire T junction, that will give you more room to flex the pipe and make it fit. The only problem with using elbows is that it reduces flow.

 

Yet another option might be to use a flexible black pipe (rubber), although I've never tried to join blue and black but I do know there are fittings to do so.

[Crossy]

47 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

1:30am job done and weeps

Should have done it yourself 

 

How did he go about (not) fixing it?

 

[JAS21]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Should have done it yourself 

 

How did he go about (not) fixing it?

 

I have a fixed price for the job ..I thought it was expensive and he was taking the P ...but have now changed my mind ... I think he was unlucky as he thought the leak would be at a T-piece.

 

His plumbing is ok but the chances of making a good joint ...when you can't see what you are doing and very tight access, laying with you head in a hole 45cms deep and reavhing under the house and the area is dirty... are not 100% ..

 

He is coming back to finish the job ...I'm just opening the wall ...he offered to do but I declined as it's wallpaper off first etc etc ...luckily the area is hidden...

 

I will just make a small opening first to see where the pipes run ... I may yet cut the wall outside ...depends what I see

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

I tapped into an existing pipe for an outside tap, cutting through about 3” of concrete then sand and earth.
At first I thought I could make the hole long enough to lift the pipe and fit a straight connector but Noooooo !!.
Go with your idea, 4 x 90 degree elbows and short pieces, the only way IMO .

[canopy]

Aren't these types of breaks typically repaired using a union? Cement in a new segment, then screw the cap, done. What is the advantage of a bunch of 90's jutting out instead?

 

[canuckamuck]

17 minutes ago, canopy said:

Aren't these types of breaks typically repaired using a union? Cement in a new segment, then screw the cap, done. What is the advantage of a bunch of 90's jutting out instead?

 

Try and find a PVC union here that doesn't leak. Not easy.

[grollies]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Try and find a PVC union here that doesn't leak. Not easy.

Blue plastic screwed unions leak badly I've found. Steel ones are better but you need to make a PTFE seal for the flat mating surfaces. But buried screwed unions are a bad idea, steel ones will corrode in time.

[wayned]

Using a union is not the answer as once the two sides are glued on at least one side has to be flexible enough to move it into place to properly join them. Which pipe do you think can be moved?  The 90 degree fittings are the best option other than digging up the whole mess!

[grollies]

6 hours ago, wayned said:

Using a union is not the answer as once the two sides are glued on at least one side has to be flexible enough to move it into place to properly join them. Which pipe do you think can be moved?  The 90 degree fittings are the best option other than digging up the whole mess!

Yep, see post #3.

 

I was simply commenting on the use of screwed unions, not suggesting the OP use them.

[canopy]

Thought it would have been obvious. If necessary use 2 unions with a pipe segment between them. This middle segment then drops into place. Then the existing pipes do not need to move at all.

 

[Anythingleft?]

These slip compression couplings save a whole lot of hassle trying to bend and flex pipes when you have no room

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[grollies]

Screwed couplings underground and under concrete? Not me.

[Anythingleft?]

Well the glue fittings seem to be working wonders [emoji848]

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[maxpower]

22 hours ago, Anythingleft? said:

These slip compression couplings save a whole lot of hassle trying to bend and flex pipes when you have no room

Plastic compression or ring seal screw fittings are widely used in the ground especially on HDP pipe and are an excellent choice for difficult repairs. Most have stainless or nylon grip rings to prevent the pipe blowing out. They actually perform a joint that is more forgiving to ground movement when compared to a solid UPVC joint. 

[grollies]

10 hours ago, maxpower said:

Plastic compression or ring seal screw fittings are widely used in the ground especially on HDP pipe and are an excellent choice for difficult repairs. Most have stainless or nylon grip rings to prevent the pipe blowing out. They actually perform a joint that is more forgiving to ground movement when compared to a solid UPVC joint. 

I'll agree if you could get a type similar to those supplied in the UK which have a nylon insert and ring joint. But I've never seen them here.

 

 

[maxpower]

4 hours ago, grollies said:

I'll agree if you could get a type similar to those supplied in the UK which have a nylon insert and ring joint. But I've never seen them here.

Some countries regulations require inserts on MDPE pipe only.

 

Most PE/PVC collet and seal ring joints do not require support inserts. There are many variations of collet and seal but the principal is the same.

 

Std PE fittings are widely available in Thailand. UPVC compression fittings are available from large plumbing suppliers and maybe a few DIY stores.

 

** Compression joints are also helpful where pipes continuously drip and prevent a reliable solvent joint.

Edited January 21, 2018 by maxpower

[wayned]

19 hours ago, grollies said:

Screwed couplings underground and under concrete? Not me.

I don't know what the code is today since copper will cost you an arm, a leg, and a right gonad today, but the code in the US when I built my houses there was continuous copper under the slab, all joints in the wall above the slab.  IMHO the only way to go.  The initial cost is far better than having to rework leaky joints under/in the slab.