SURVEY: Do you want Trump to finish his first term?

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So the illegals only take fruit picking jobs and domestic help work? If one has spent their life with a white collar job, making good money well good for you. But, those of us who are content with blue collar work will paint a different picture. The illegals left the fields long ago to work in factories, slaughter houses, warehouses and the construction trade. And those jobs are wanted by Americans. As the illegals leave, the employers are going to have to start paying decent wages.

So go after the employers hiring illegal immigrants.  Going after the immigrants instead of the businesses that make illegal immigration attractive is idiotic; it's like going after drug users and leaving drug dealers alone. 

 

I don't recall Trump or any Republicans pushing this approach.

[meechai]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

So go after the employers hiring illegal immigrants.  Going after the immigrants instead of the businesses that make illegal immigration attractive is idiotic; it's like going after drug users and leaving drug dealers alone. 

 

I don't recall Trump or any Republicans pushing this approach.

Ah so your saying go after pawn shop owners who buy the stolen objects & let criminals roam free?

 

Funny even in your argument you call them what they are "illegal immigrants"

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Thakkar said:

 

That’s the money quote. I hadn’t considered that at all, and yet it’s so obvious. I used to respect Assange and his work. I still adhere to his original principles as expressed in the various pieces he’d written almost two decades ago. But now he is clearly in self-preservation mode and willing to do anything to get out of the bind he’s in.

Assange's leaks were always from the relatively open governments, he always ignored the closed, repressive governments.  Now, like Snowden, he is relying on a closed, repressive government for protection.  I've never respected either of them.

[Thakkar]

13 minutes ago, heybruce said:

So go after the employers hiring illegal immigrants.  Going after the immigrants instead of the businesses that make illegal immigration attractive is idiotic; it's like going after drug users and leaving drug dealers alone. 

 

I don't recall Trump or any Republicans pushing this approach.

 

This is the key point. The fact is many industries *want* illegal workers that they can exploit, pay low wages to, and have the option to stiff completely at times. While illegal workers work hard for low wages and risk a lot just to stave off deprivation, and while American workers have to face some wage depression as a result, the big beneficiaries laugh scot free all the way to the bank.

[Thakkar]

14 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Assange's leaks were always from the relatively open governments, he always ignored the closed, repressive governments.  Now, like Snowden, he is relying on a closed, repressive government for protection.  I've never respected either of them.

This is unnecessarily off topic, but here’s a brief response:

 

it it wouldn’t be possible (or at least pretty hard) for someone like Assange to leak from closed governments. Because they are much more closed and secretive.

 

As for Snowden, it’s perfectly conceivable he is now working for the Russian government. I have some sympathy for his predicament. I believe he ended up in Russia, not by choice. The US intelligence community and the Obama administration badly mishandled the situation, repeatedly, at several key junctures that eventually led to him ending up there. It’s easy for me, sitting comfortably at home to say that he should be brave enough to face the consequences of his actions. The consequence is possible death for treason. I can’t honestly say that I would react differently if faced with such a choice.

[heybruce]

22 minutes ago, meechai said:

Ah so your saying go after pawn shop owners who buy the stolen objects & let criminals roam free?

 

Funny even in your argument you call them what they are "illegal immigrants"

Was my drug dealer vs drug user analogy too effective for you?

 

Go after all those breaking the law, but if there is a pawn shop creating a market for illegal goods, then yes, put greater emphasis on the business making the crime profitable.

 

In the post you replied to, I did specifically use "illegal immigrants".  Why the bold-faced diversion?

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

This is unnecessarily off topic, but here’s a brief response:

 

it it wouldn’t be possible (or at least pretty hard) for someone like Assange to leak from closed governments. Because they are much more closed and secretive.

 

As for Snowden, it’s perfectly conceivable he is now working for the Russian government. I have some sympathy for his predicament. I believe he ended up in Russia, not by choice. The US intelligence community and the Obama administration badly mishandled the situation, repeatedly, at several key junctures that eventually led to him ending up there. It’s easy for me, sitting comfortably at home to say that he should be brave enough to face the consequences of his actions. The consequence is possible death for treason. I can’t honestly say that I would react differently if faced with such a choice.

In a hostile world, governments need some secrets.  By targeting the easy, relatively open governments and ignoring the closed government, Assange weakened the open governments and made the world a better place for closed governments.  Now it appears Assange is helping Russia in undermining the US.  

 

Assange is not a journalist putting his life at risk exposing corruption and government abuses in China, Russia, Myanmar, Cambodia, etc., he's a publicity hound who picked the easy path to celebrity, with no regard to the consequences.

 

The US government mishandled the intelligence situation after 911 when it decided, with good reason, to open the intelligence "stopepipes" that imposed strict need-to-know restrictions on access to intelligence.  Clearly these stopepipes were opened too far, giving too many people access to vast quantities of intelligence simply because they had the clearance, not the need, for the intelligence.  This opened the doors to people like Snowden.  It was stupid and predictable, and I hope the procedures have been changed.

 

However Snowden chose to break the law in a manner that did far more harm to the US than any debatable good.  He's now living in exile because of his choices and actions.

[Thakkar]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

In a hostile world, governments need some secrets.  By targeting the easy, relatively open governments and ignoring the closed government, Assange weakened the open governments and made the world a better place for closed governments.  Now it appears Assange is helping Russia in undermining the US.  

 

Assange is not a journalist putting his life at risk exposing corruption and government abuses in China, Russia, Myanmar, Cambodia, etc., he's a publicity hound who picked the easy path to celebrity, with no regard to the consequences.

 

The US government mishandled the intelligence situation after 911 when it decided, with good reason, to open the intelligence "stopepipes" that imposed strict need-to-know restrictions on access to intelligence.  Clearly these stopepipes were opened too far, giving too many people access to vast quantities of intelligence simply because they had the clearance, not the need, for the intelligence.  This opened the doors to people like Snowden.  It was stupid and predictable, and I hope the procedures have been changed.

 

However Snowden chose to break the law in a manner that did far more harm to the US than any debatable good.  He's now living in exile because of his choices and actions.

Snowden exposed the NSA was breaking US laws with their over surveillance. Senators like Feinstein were ok with it till she learned she herself was being surveilled.

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Snowden exposed the NSA was breaking US laws with their over surveillance. Senators like Feinstein were ok with it till she learned she herself was being surveilled.

Snowden exposed a lot more than that to a lot of people and hostile governments.  He could have exposed the illegal NSA activities in a manner that wouldn't have done so much damage to the US.

[Skywalker69]

NY Times just busted Trump embezzling $26 million in inauguration funds to Melania’s BFF

 

After months of pressure to release details of how President Trump’s inaugural committee spent the record $107 million that it raised, some details have come out in a mandatory IRS filing by the non-profit group.

 

The big surprise is that $26 million went to an event planning firm started by an adviser to First Lady Melania Trump, which had been launched shortly before the ceremony, parade, balls and other events in December 2016, according to the New York Times. 

 

http://thingsdaily.net/ny-times-just-busted-trump-embezzling-26-million-in-inauguration-funds-to-melanias-bff/

[heybruce]

25 minutes ago, Skywalker69 said:

NY Times just busted Trump embezzling $26 million in inauguration funds to Melania’s BFF

 

After months of pressure to release details of how President Trump’s inaugural committee spent the record $107 million that it raised, some details have come out in a mandatory IRS filing by the non-profit group.

 

The big surprise is that $26 million went to an event planning firm started by an adviser to First Lady Melania Trump, which had been launched shortly before the ceremony, parade, balls and other events in December 2016, according to the New York Times. 

 

http://thingsdaily.net/ny-times-just-busted-trump-embezzling-26-million-in-inauguration-funds-to-melanias-bff/

It looks like the entire inauguration was incompetently run with ample opportunity to pad bills and divert money to friends; in other words, it was run like a Trump business.  Unfortunately it may prove difficult to prove fraud.

[Andaman Al]

14 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So the illegals only take fruit picking jobs and domestic help work? If one has spent their life with a white collar job, making good money well good for you. But, those of us who are content with blue collar work will paint a different picture. The illegals left the fields long ago to work in factories, slaughter houses, warehouses and the construction trade. And those jobs are wanted by Americans. As the illegals leave, the employers are going to have to start paying decent wages.

Do Americans want to work in Mara Lago? It seems they have a lot of vacancies every year and only employ cheap foreign labour. How about you start with making Trump start paying decent wages.

[Slip]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

Do Americans want to work in Mara Lago? It seems they have a lot of vacancies every year and only employ cheap foreign labour. How about you start with making Trump start paying decent wages.

MAGAt lies?  Say it ain't so!
 

Quote

A Vox analysis of hiring records for seasonal workers at three Trump properties in New York and Florida revealed that only one out of 144 jobs went to a US worker from 2016 to the end of 2017. Foreign guest workers with H-2B visas got the rest.

https://www.vox.com/2018/2/13/16466542/trump-h-2b-guest-workers

[Skywalker69]

2 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Do Americans want to work in Mara Lago? It seems they have a lot of vacancies every year and only employ cheap foreign labour. How about you start with making Trump start paying decent wages.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-mar-a-lago-visas-foreign-workers_us_59fcde72e4b0c9652fff66ab

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Slip said:

MAGAt lies?  Say it ain't so!
 

https://www.vox.com/2018/2/13/16466542/trump-h-2b-guest-workers

Make America White Great Again!

 

No, seriously, I meant MAGA, not MAWA!  It's only a coincidence I favor immigrants from Norway instead of Mexico.  And the fact that I married an eastern European immigrant who worked illegally as a nude model in the US has nothing to do with it!    Donald Trump.

[meechai]

11 hours ago, heybruce said:

Was my drug dealer vs drug user analogy too effective for you?

 

No, Quite the opposite actually, for me & everyone else.

[bendejo]

22 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

The illegals left the fields long ago to work in factories, ....

 

Oh.  Well then, who is picking the the produce in the US days?

 

 

[bendejo]

Well well, I stumbled across something that brings a Thai into the conversation of illegal foreigners in the US:

http://portlandtribune.com/lor/48-news/387000-276954-lake-oswego-resturant-owner-pleads-guilty-to-using-forced-labor

 

I've been waiting for a Thai fishing boat with a slave crew to stray into US Coast Guard patrolled waters, like American Samoa, and have that whole can of worms (no pun intended) burst open in the eyes of the world.

 

 

[Credo]

Another bad week for Trump:

 

Donald Trump's absolutely disastrous week

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/trump-terrible-week-analysis/index.html

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, meechai said:

No, Quite the opposite actually, for me & everyone else.

So you agree that to stop illegal activity, you must stop the source that makes illegal activity worthwhile.

 

Thank you.  Now let's go against those who hire illegal immigrants and make their illegal status worthwhile.

[Credo]

The rope may be tightening on some of his extra-marital affairs.   The payment made by Cohen to Stormy Daniels may just be a little closer to Trump than we thought:

 

Cohen’s statement admitted only that he used his personal funds for facilitating the payment, not the payment itself. The facilitation, Noble said, could simply have been the cost of setting up a Delaware Limited Liability Corporation through which, according to the Wall Street Journal, the payment was made.

Cohen’s statement did not specifically say whether he also made the actual payment, leaving open the possibility that others — Trump himself, a friend, a corporation or even a foreign national — may have put up the funds.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-fec-chief-lawyer-trump-attorney-may-made-colossal-screwup-stormy-daniels-statement-135418767.html

[Silurian]

Some light reading. Republicans are showing their true colors.

 

What Do You Call A Plutocratic, Fake-Populist Party?

https://www.dcreport.org/2018/02/15/what-do-you-call-a-plutocratic-fake-populist-party/

 

Quote

Of Course, One Could Say They Already Have a Name: Republicans

 

[simple1]

Trump is abhorrent and unfit to hold the Office of the President of the USA

 

Very sad that the FBI missed all of the many signals sent out by the Florida school shooter. This is not acceptable. They are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign - there is no collusion. Get back to the basics and make us all proud!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 18, 2018

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43102312

 

[Skywalker69]

What Language Experts Find So Strange About Donald Trump

 

Donald Trump talks funny. You’ve probably noticed, but can’t quite put your finger down on why. Does he use unique words? Weird rhetorical tics? Maybe it’s the way he seems to emphasize the first vowel of every word: L-ooo-ser. M-ooo-ron. Ch-iii-na.

 

https://thinkprogress.org/what-language-experts-find-so-strange-about-donald-trump-2f067c20156e/

[Skywalker69]

 

[Jingthing]

A president's day without a real president. Spot on!

 

Quote

We have entered an age of unreason; an American dark age. A major political party has fallen into decay, seized full on by extremists and overrun by racism, tribalism, greed, xenophobia and demographic panic. It is no longer a question of whether their president can ever be our president, and speak to the nation with moral authority. He can’t. 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-presidents-day-without-a-real-president

[lannarebirth]

On 2/15/2018 at 10:56 PM, Thakkar said:

 

This is the key point. The fact is many industries *want* illegal workers that they can exploit, pay low wages to, and have the option to stiff completely at times. While illegal workers work hard for low wages and risk a lot just to stave off deprivation, and while American workers have to face some wage depression as a result, the big beneficiaries laugh scot free all the way to the bank.

Trump's sole prison sentence commutation was to a slaughterhouse operator employing 389 illegals. Some financial fraud too but it was the employeeing of illegals that got the authority's foot in the door.  Strangely, there was wide support for this commutation by Democrats and Republicans alike. Probably because the perp was Jewish with lots of political affiliations. Anyhow, it doesn't look like anyone wants to go after employers. They are the political donation class after all.

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Trump's sole prison sentence commutation was to a slaughterhouse operator employing 389 illegals. Some financial fraud too but it was the employeeing of illegals that got the authority's foot in the door.  Strangely, there was wide support for this commutation by Democrats and Republicans alike. Probably because the perp was Jewish with lots of political affiliations. Anyhow, it doesn't look like anyone wants to go after employers. They are the political donation class after all.

And among those not anyones is Donald Trump, the drainer of swamps.

[lannarebirth]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And among those not anyones is Donald Trump, the drainer of swamps.

Right, that's what I just said.

[Jingthing]

"trump" is freaking out again. 

I sincerely do not understand how any decent American finds his behavior acceptable. 

 

He may finish his first term, but for the sake of the nation ... he SHOULD not!

 

Quote

 

President Trump is losing control

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation, and the Russia scandal in general, are driving this president around the bend, to the point where he is setting himself against not just the government he leads but also the interests of the United States of America. And everything we’ve seen up to now suggests that it will only get worse.

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/02/19/president-trump-is-losing-control/