German minister warns Israel it faces growing frustration in Europe

[webfact]

German minister warns Israel it faces growing frustration in Europe

 

German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel speaks during the 11th Annual International Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) Conference in Tel Aviv, Israel January 31, 2018. REUTERS/Amir Cohen

 

TEL AVIV (Reuters) - German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel warned Israel on Wednesday that it faced growing frustration in Europe amid concern for the future of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

 

Gabriel adopted a markedly different tone to that of U.S. Vice President Mike Pence, who on a visit to Israel last week embraced President Donald Trump's Dec. 6 announcement that his administration recognises Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and that it will move the U.S. Embassy to the city.

 

"With regard to the Palestinians and the Iran question the Americans are taking your side more clearly than ever before. But is this really only a good thing?" Gabriel said in Tel Aviv.

 

Citing past successes of U.S. diplomacy in the region, he asked: "Can the Americans still play such a role if they take sides so openly? Will others try to step into their shoes?"

 

In a thinly veiled threat about cutting off aid, he said some members of Israel's cabinet were "explicitly against the two-state solution" but that such a solution "has always been the foundation of our engagement for Israeli-Palestinian peace and for the large amount of funding" from Germany and Europe.

 

"These – at best mixed – signals do not go unnoticed in Europe, where there is clearly growing frustration with Israel's actions," he told an Israeli security conference. Gabriel cited disagreements even within his own Social Democratic Party about what some see as "unfair" treatment of the Palestinians.

 

"NO SHORTCUT"

 

"It is increasingly difficult for people like me to explain to them the reasons why our support for Israel must persist," he said. Gabriel pointed to concerns about violence, hatred, and Israeli settlement-building in occupied territory that Palestinians seek for a future independent state.

 

"Germany is looking forward to the day when it will be able to move its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. But let me add: in two states with Jerusalem as their capital. There is no shortcut here."

 

Palestinians want East Jerusalem, which was captured by Israeli in a 1967 war, for their future capital. Israel regards Jerusalem as its eternal, indivisible capital.

 

Gabriel spoke after meetings with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

 

Earlier in the day Netanyahu corrected the record during a joint news conference held with his German visitor after Gabriel said he was encouraged that Netanyahu's government supported a two-state solution "with secure Israeli borders".

 

"That we will control security west of the Jordan (river). That is the first condition," Netanyahu objected, cutting Gabriel off and adding, "Whether it’s defined as a state when we have the military control is another matter. I'd rather not discuss labels, but substance."

 

Gabriel suggested that the discussion might be revisited at another time, "far away from now".

 

Gabriel has been an outspoken supporter of greater efforts to combat anti-Semitism in Germany, including creation of a new government commissioner post to oversee such initiatives.

 

At the same time, he is under pressure at home to take a hard line on the continued building of Israeli settlements in violation of international law.

 

(Reporting by Stephen Farrell and Andrea Shalal; editing by Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-01

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

[Topdoc]

The strategy is dīvide et imperā. 
Divide and conquer (or rule)

[ezzra]

For decades now, many world's leaders and other go between have tried their hands in bringing the sides together to agree to a peace process, but all in vain and to no avail, the divide is simply to deep with mistrusts and suspicions, claims of rights for this or that, coupled with accusations on both sides, death and distractions, so the Germans and others that lecture on what is best for Israel will work this time either,,,

[hansnl]

The German foreign minister isn't aware of the growing frustration with the hun in Europe and the US?

He probably isn't aware also the muslim arabs do not want peace but want a "Judenrein" middle east?

Forgive him, he is most certainly blinded by the glorious german past.

 

[Jingthing]

He makes very good points, but the optics of a German giving morality lectures to Jews is still a bit much. 

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, hansnl said:

The German foreign minister isn't aware of the growing frustration with the hun in Europe and the US?

He probably isn't aware also the muslim arabs do not want peace but want a "Judenrein" middle east?

Forgive him, he is most certainly blinded by the glorious german past.

 

Strange comments; take off the far right tinfoil hat. Today's German government policy is as a friend of Israel, as is the FM. 

[thaibeachlovers]

 

I hope this time the EU actually does something, instead of just blah, blah, blah.

Time for an anti Sth Africa apartheid style world wide campaign, till Israel withdraws from the illegally occupied territories, East Jerusalem, removes the blockade of Gaza by land and sea, and recognises the Palestinian right to be a nation.

[hansnl]

11 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Strange comments; take off the far right tinfoil hat. Today's German government policy is as a friend of Israel, as is the FM. 

I am not right, not left, but realistic.

The muslims don't want Israel on what they call, "muslim land"

Any European politico blabbering on about a two state solution forget this fact thereby showing they have no idea whatsoever about reality in the Middle East and are only firing off blanks to humour the imported "fugitives".

Israel gave up Gaza, what are they getting back?

If the Westbank and Golan are given up, what do you think will happen?

Peace?

Don't think so, nor do the muslims.

They will go on, because the blame of "lost lands" to Jews and Christians is unbearable for those (deleted).

Keep that in mind if you defend the Germans ranting about a 2-state solution, being friends of Israel, and so on.

Ultimately Israel has only one friend, and only one people that will defend their survival, Israel and the Jews.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, hansnl said:

I am not right, not left, but realistic.

The muslims don't want Israel on what they call, "muslim land"

Any European politico blabbering on about a two state solution forget this fact thereby showing they have no idea whatsoever about reality in the Middle East and are only firing off blanks to humour the imported "fugitives".

Israel gave up Gaza, what are they getting back?

If the Westbank and Golan are given up, what do you think will happen?

Peace?

Don't think so, nor do the muslims.

They will go on, because the blame of "lost lands" to Jews and Christians is unbearable for those (deleted).

Keep that in mind if you defend the Germans ranting about a 2-state solution, being friends of Israel, and so on.

Ultimately Israel has only one friend, and only one people that will defend their survival, Israel and the Jews.

 

Israel gave up Gaza, what are they getting back?

Comments like that annoy me immensely. Israel had no right to be in Gaza in the first place, so they shouldn't "expect" anything in return, and secondly, they didn't "give" it up. They left because the price was too high to stay.

Anyway, they just turned it into the world's largest prison, in violation of every human right as espoused by that impotent body, the UN.

[Jingthing]

I agree that the vast majority of people in the Middle East did not want the state of Israel to ever exist and now want it to stop existing. But that doesn't mean that some kind of messy peaceful compromise where Israel still does exist isn't possible. But it will be very, very difficult, so arguably pretty darn close to impossible. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[Ulic]

Isreal has no intention of negotiating a two-state solution. End of story.

[simple1]

16 minutes ago, hansnl said:

I am not right, <snip>

Then launch into a hard right wing rant - Lol

Edited February 1, 2018 by simple1

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Isreal has no intention of negotiating a two-state solution. End of story.

I agree with you on that but personally I don't think that is the REAL goal of the Palestinians either. So there! 

 

So basically, IF Israel is EVER (yes doubtful) going to enter into serious negotiations towards a two state solution, the issue of SECURITY for Israel in such a plan will need to be paramount. Anyway, I wouldn't bet the house on that happening in any of our lifetimes. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[RichardColeman]

Just wait until all those imported Muslims start making their way into the government in years to come - Israel will really get a hiding !

[hansnl]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

I hope this time the EU actually does something, instead of just blah, blah, blah.

Time for an anti Sth Africa apartheid style world wide campaign, till Israel withdraws from the illegally occupied territories, East Jerusalem, removes the blockade of Gaza by land and sea, and recognises the Palestinian right to be a nation.

That will never happen.

The muslim arabs want one arab muslim state, including what is now Israel.

Four times since 1948 the fools did not agree to a 2-state solution, because they want a "Judenrein" country.

And now you blame Israel?

Stop believing the lying Arab propaganda and read some history.

Up till 1918 the Westbank was "occupied" by the Turks.

From 1948 till 1967 Jordan, against the division plan, occupied the Westbank.

And from then on, Israel annexed the Westbank as meant in the division plan.

So it is not occupied territory, at all.

Maybe call it disputed territory.

 

[Sir Dude]

5 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Just wait until all those imported Muslims start making their way into the government in years to come - Israel will really get a hiding !

 

The future is not set and the Muslims, through their failure to change or integrate in most countries they have invaded through migration calling for Sharia law in the EU and the like etc., may well end up as the victims of the same thing the Jews found themselves persecuted for in the past for whatever reasons. The future is not guaranteed to be a liberal paradise forever and if anything, it is on some fairly frail ground even in the present...there is much resentment bubbling away on the back burner these days about many things and immigration plus loss/dilution of cultural identity is one of them. 

 

I personally think neither side is very interested in a meaningful peace as there is simply too much hatred stored up on both side and the divide is religious too which just null and voids everything as once that happens it's nutjobs negotiating wit nutjobs. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Sir Dude said:

 

The future is not set and the Muslims, through their failure to change or integrate in most countries they have invaded through migration calling for Sharia law in the EU and the like etc., may well end up as the victims of the same thing the Jews found themselves persecuted for in the past for whatever reasons. The future is not guaranteed to be a liberal paradise forever and if anything, it is on some fairly frail ground even in the present...there is much resentment bubbling away on the back burner these days about many things and immigration plus loss/dilution of cultural identity is one of them. 

 

I personally think neither side is very interested in a meaningful peace as there is simply too much hatred stored up on both side and the divide is religious too which just null and voids everything as once that happens it's nutjobs negotiating wit nutjobs. 

there is simply too much hatred stored up on both side

 

Agree 100%.

By not having resolved the situation in the 70s Israel is only gaining enemies every day of occupation. I don't know how much they spend on the military, but it must be humungous, and young Israelis are being turned into brutes by having to enforce it. Not a good scenario at all.

Nothing stays the same, and Palestinians are reproducing at a greater rate than Israelis................................

 

The problem for Israel is simple, but the solution is extremely complicated:

1/Continue the occupation and eventually the world turns against them. One day the US will have a president that won't use the veto to save them

2/Two state solution with millions of PO Palestinians wanting revenge for the occupation

3/Annex Palestinian land outright- what to do with the people that live on it? What will the world do about outright land theft?

 

[Thorgal]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

He makes very good points, but the optics of a German giving morality lectures to Jews is still a bit much. 

 

OP is about a GERMAN politician who expresses his opinion agains ISRAEL.

 

He didn't specify his opinion to JEWS only.

 

Israel has a minority of +20% of Arabs, read Muslims...

 

Perhaps you gonna lecture in a future thread about those same Arabs/Muslims to prove the Israeli social integrity...to the region...

[wolf81]

13 hours ago, simple1 said:

Strange comments; take off the far right tinfoil hat. Today's German government policy is as a friend of Israel, as is the FM. 

As more and more Muslims enter Europe (including Germany), you can expect the politicians to choose sides for the Palestinians (Egyptians / Arabs, actually) in the conflict, even though that will not solve anything. I hope at some point we can just forget about this whole "2-state solution" idea. It's pointless and will never work.

And anyway, there is already a "2-state solution" in the form of Israel and Jordan. 
 

I also think an undivided Jerusalem is best. One can trust the Israelis to let Christians and Muslims worship within Jerusalem, but one cannot expect the same from Muslims (think about Mekka). And either way, do they really need 3 holy cities? I say: Rome for the Christians, Jerusalem for the Jews, Mekka & Medina for the Muslims.

[Kiwiken]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

there is simply too much hatred stored up on both side

 

Agree 100%.

By not having resolved the situation in the 70s Israel is only gaining enemies every day of occupation. I don't know how much they spend on the military, but it must be humungous, and young Israelis are being turned into brutes by having to enforce it. Not a good scenario at all.

Nothing stays the same, and Palestinians are reproducing at a greater rate than Israelis................................

 

The problem for Israel is simple, but the solution is extremely complicated:

1/Continue the occupation and eventually the world turns against them. One day the US will have a president that won't use the veto to save them

2/Two state solution with millions of PO Palestinians wanting revenge for the occupation

3/Annex Palestinian land outright- what to do with the people that live on it? What will the world do about outright land theft?

 

There is a 4th solution a single state , Democratic and equal. But that is a big ask to two bitter opponents. I would more see sadly a single state divided by gerrymander and social apartheid

Edited February 1, 2018 by Kiwiken
mispelled word

[Morch]

23 hours ago, Jingthing said:

He makes very good points, but the optics of a German giving morality lectures to Jews is still a bit much. 

 

Not so much a "morality lecture", more a political analysis.

[Morch]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

I hope this time the EU actually does something, instead of just blah, blah, blah.

Time for an anti Sth Africa apartheid style world wide campaign, till Israel withdraws from the illegally occupied territories, East Jerusalem, removes the blockade of Gaza by land and sea, and recognises the Palestinian right to be a nation.

 

What you hope for is for the EU to adopt your extreme position (which actually goes beyond what you posted above) - this will not happen. Time for this, time for that - as long as it falls in line with your one-sided stance. Perhaps also time for the Palestinian leadership coming to terms with reality, but not expecting the likes of you to acknowledge this angle.

[Morch]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Israel gave up Gaza, what are they getting back?

Comments like that annoy me immensely. Israel had no right to be in Gaza in the first place, so they shouldn't "expect" anything in return, and secondly, they didn't "give" it up. They left because the price was too high to stay.

Anyway, they just turned it into the world's largest prison, in violation of every human right as espoused by that impotent body, the UN.

 

Well, it's not like your comment is all that informed or even objective, is it?

 

Whether Israel should or shouldn't have "expected" this or that result when unilaterally withdrawing form the Gaza Strip is not the point. Rather, the Palestinians had, for the first time, an opportunity to run a part of their future state as they saw fit. Instead of making the best of it, they squandered the opportunity. Spin it however you like, there was a choice there, and the wrong turn was taken once more.

 

The blockade of the Gaza Strip is not disconnected from the reality of Palestinian actions (which you fail mention) nor is it upheld by Israel alone. If Egypt wished it, the blockade would have been effectively over long ago. Spin that one as well, if you like.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, wolf81 said:

As more and more Muslims enter Europe (including Germany), you can expect the politicians to choose sides for the Palestinians (Egyptians / Arabs, actually) in the conflict, even though that will not solve anything. I hope at some point we can just forget about this whole "2-state solution" idea. It's pointless and will never work.

And anyway, there is already a "2-state solution" in the form of Israel and Jordan. 
 

I also think an undivided Jerusalem is best. One can trust the Israelis to let Christians and Muslims worship within Jerusalem, but one cannot expect the same from Muslims (think about Mekka). And either way, do they really need 3 holy cities? I say: Rome for the Christians, Jerusalem for the Jews, Mekka & Medina for the Muslims.

 

 

If you actually believe that you don't understand Islam or Christianity.

[Morch]

22 hours ago, Ulic said:

Isreal has no intention of negotiating a two-state solution. End of story.

 

If one is into simplistic, one-sided short "stories", yes. Those not into nonsense acknowledge things are a "bit" more complex than that, and that there's another side to this conflict.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What you hope for is for the EU to adopt your extreme position (which actually goes beyond what you posted above) - this will not happen. Time for this, time for that - as long as it falls in line with your one-sided stance. Perhaps also time for the Palestinian leadership coming to terms with reality, but not expecting the likes of you to acknowledge this angle.

Wow, you can read my mind- how do you do that?

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Well, it's not like your comment is all that informed or even objective, is it?

 

Whether Israel should or shouldn't have "expected" this or that result when unilaterally withdrawing form the Gaza Strip is not the point. Rather, the Palestinians had, for the first time, an opportunity to run a part of their future state as they saw fit. Instead of making the best of it, they squandered the opportunity. Spin it however you like, there was a choice there, and the wrong turn was taken once more.

 

The blockade of the Gaza Strip is not disconnected from the reality of Palestinian actions (which you fail mention) nor is it upheld by Israel alone. If Egypt wished it, the blockade would have been effectively over long ago. Spin that one as well, if you like.

Just to let you know I read your reply, but I see no point in debating something when you and I have no intention of compromising our positions. We will obviously never agree.

Have a nice day.

[Morch]

22 hours ago, hansnl said:

That will never happen.

The muslim arabs want one arab muslim state, including what is now Israel.

Four times since 1948 the fools did not agree to a 2-state solution, because they want a "Judenrein" country.

And now you blame Israel?

Stop believing the lying Arab propaganda and read some history.

Up till 1918 the Westbank was "occupied" by the Turks.

From 1948 till 1967 Jordan, against the division plan, occupied the Westbank.

And from then on, Israel annexed the Westbank as meant in the division plan.

So it is not occupied territory, at all.

Maybe call it disputed territory.

 

 

Israel did not annex the West Bank. The partition plan did not allocate the West Bank as an Israeli territory. The "disputed" vs. "occupied" argument relates to legal definitions concerning whom Israel took the area from. Generally speaking, the "disputed" position is not universally (or even widely) accepted.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Wow, you can read my mind- how do you do that?

 

I don't need to "read your mind", just recall previous topics where this came up. You weren't all that coy about it - why pretend otherwise?