Never thought it would come to this

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, The manic said:

Well said. The critics are often parochial and have had limited travel and life experiences.  They were explained to me as 'Postman Pats from Perth'. Not too bright-shrinking pension- and little or no understanding of Asian culture all underpinned by a sense of self importance. I further believe many whiners have not been to Thailand or Pattaya and some are right wing evangelicals and extreme  feminists who have infiltrated this forum.

Agree with everything except first sentence.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 7:54 AM, simoh1490 said:

If bars and hookers are an important part of your lifestyle here, how can you possibly attack the decline of Thai/farang relationships overall, mostly on the basis of those two things - and if Pattaya and tourist destinations are your sole focus, why not consider the opposite, non-tourist denominated locations, you seem to have existed in a microcosom of the real Thailand, and arguably the seediest part at that!

 

Is Hua Hin going to be any different for you.....I doubt it, it sounds like it's your attitude that needs to change.

you seem to have existed in a microcosom of the real Thailand, and arguably the seediest part at that!

One man's "seedy" is another's paradise. In the 90s Pattaya was wonderfully seedy and I loved it all. Unfortunately it's not as "seedy" as it used to be and is now transitioning between a cheap and cheerful "seedy but happy" place to a place that doesn't know what it wants to be at all. On the one hand, some seedy but happy places still exist, and in some places it's flash buildings for rich people, and the rest is either broken ( marina, Waterfront ) or is confused about what it wants to be and ends up being not much of anything except a collection of rather ugly concrete buildings erected without any planning or reason for existence.

The one consistent throughout is the beach that no one in their right mind stays in Pattaya for. They have, despite spending vast sums of money through the decades, never got that one right.

[madusa]

The average Thais don't know much about the economy, try asking them whether tourists not coming to Thailand would make their lives more difficult. They wouldn't be able to figure out or they don't see the connection.

Their thinking have been conditioned by the ruling government to do the minimal thinking so they could be control easily. Oh, yes they also condition them to distrust "Farang". That's why you don't always get a straight answer from them.

Say, if I hit jackpot and I go to Britain and you know what I will say "why aren't the British people smiling, is it because they don't like foreigners?" I stay 4 years on this big piece of wind swipe rock and I couldn't find any decent foods I had to go to Soho (chinatown) to get some asian foods. 

What would the Brits say me? I guess they say "piss off you miserable little cvnt". I really shouldn't be asking questions is a take or leave it situation in Thailand.

Good day.

 

 

"Hippocrates uphold the Oaths, Hypocrites ate their Oates".

 

[JSixpack]

51 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The one consistent throughout is the beach that no one in their right mind stays in Pattaya for. They have, despite spending vast sums of money through the decades, never got that one right.

 

This needs serious qualification. Solely for the beach, no, for the most part. Do people go to Ft. Lauderdale, FLA, solely for the beach? But the beach has always been a large contributing factor to Pattaya's development. No beach, no Pattaya. Just its being there lends an air of informality and relaxation that attracts tourists. Most people do like a sea view and people like to stay in hotels and buy condos that have a sea view. Chinese need it to launch themselves towards Koh Larn. And yes, contrary to forum myth, lots of people do enjoy relaxing on the beach and even (gasp!) swimming. High season's winding down, but just the other day, at random, this:

 

 

Lots of people under the beach umbrellas out of view.

 

In the end the promenade redevelopment, though it greatly helped the problem (temporarily, no doubt) of traffic on Beach Rd esp. during festivals--which was its main purpose--ended up poorly constructed for the conditions. Still, more people than ever walk on the promenade (contrary to the laughable doomster prediction that it would end Pattaya tourism) and during high season it gets positively crowded. So in fact The Authorities recognized it correctly as a tourist draw. And they should have done more to capitalize on that through better construction. Good news is that there's enough shade.

[JSixpack]

8 minutes ago, madusa said:

The average Thais don't know much about the economy, try asking them whether tourists not coming to Thailand would make their lives more difficult. They wouldn't be able to figure out or they don't see the connection.

 

Nonsense. Had a news item last year about Thais complaining when the zero dollar tours were stopped, for example.

 

[madusa]

2 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

Nonsense. Had a news item last year about Thais complaining when the zero dollar tours were stopped, for example.

 

Of course the Thais who are tour operators complaining when the Zero dollar tours were stopped. The average thais who are not tour operators or tour agents wouldn't care whether tourists come or go.

[simoh1490]

34 minutes ago, madusa said:

Of course the Thais who are tour operators complaining when the Zero dollar tours were stopped. The average thais who are not tour operators or tour agents wouldn't care whether tourists come or go.

Not true, the percentage of the population directly employed in the tourist industry in Thailand is high, the number of people indirectly employed or dependent upon it is even higher, 6.2 million people by some estimates and that's as of 2015, potentially as many as 15% of the available workforce:

 

 https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/labor-force-total-wb-data.html

https://www.statista.com/statistics/332341/employment-by-economic-sector-in-thailand/

[Justfine]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Not true, the percentage of the population directly employed in the tourist industry in Thailand is high, the number of people indirectly employed or dependent upon it is even higher, 6.2 million people by some estimates and that's as of 2015, potentially as many as 15% of the available workforce:

 

 https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/labor-force-total-wb-data.html

https://www.statista.com/statistics/332341/employment-by-economic-sector-in-thailand/

15% is low. A minority. Most is more than 50%.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, Justfine said:

15% is low. A minority. Most is more than 50%.

Most what is more than 50%?

 

Presumably, you think most countries with a tourist industry employ over 50% of the workforce in that sector, in which case I have to ask, on which planet!

 

Direct tourism represents about 21% of Thailands GDP, 15% of the workforce seems proportionate to me, especially since much larger percentages are employed in agriculture and services.

Edited February 15, 2018 by simoh1490

[Justfine]

12 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Most what is more than 50%?

 

Presumably, you think most countries with a tourist industry employ over 50% of the workforce in that sector, in which case I have to ask, on which planet!

 

Direct tourism represents about 21% of Thailands GDP, 15% of the workforce seems proportionate to me, especially since much larger percentages are employed in agriculture and services.

No education? Majority means more than 50%.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Justfine said:

No education? Majority means more than 50%.

Justfine, I've been watching your posts for about a week and I've concluded that not only do you not have anything helpful or useful to say but that you're also a troll....welcome to my ignore list!

[Justfine]

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Justfine, I've been watching your posts for about a week and I've concluded that not only do you not have anything helpful or useful to say but that you're also a troll....welcome to my ignore list!

Not my fault you don't know what the word majority means.

 

He said the average Thai. The average Thai doesn't give a stuff about tourists.

 

If you want to take your bat and ball and go home so be it.

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, madusa said:

Of course the Thais who are tour operators complaining when the Zero dollar tours were stopped. The average thais who are not tour operators or tour agents wouldn't care whether tourists come or go.

 

No, these weren't tour operators but ordinary vendors. A recent news item will make it clear to you that tour group Chinese benefit more than just tour operators: http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/travel-leisure/article/2132657/chinese-tourists-flocking-pattaya-transgender-shows-thai

 

But best thing for you to do, I think, is simply go around to the beer bars & go gos and see if the ladies are missing the business they had during the high season. At the end of low season, go ask whether they're looking forward to more tourists arriving soon.

 

If you're upcountry where income depends solely on farming, then yes, they don't care about tourism. Why should they? But they do care about the weather. Your implication that Thais in general don't have the sense to care about the source of their livelihood is just the usual bigotry.

Edited February 15, 2018 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, madusa said:

Oh, yes they also condition them to distrust "Farang". That's why you don't always get a straight answer from them.

 

No. Thais are naturally ethnocentric. They trust Thais more than anyone else, period. And you might ask yourself how trustworthy farang have shown themselves in Thailand. Go ask bar girls whether a farang has ever lied to them. Get an earful. You always getting honesty and straight answers from farang here? You might check out what happened to some of our members with their investments "managed" by farang. 

 

And you don't seem to understand Asian culture at all. Asians in general don't do straight answers well and they don't like directness. Certainly goes for Thais. Among themselves, they're the same in that regard.

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

No. Thais are naturally ethnocentric. They trust Thais more than anyone else, period. And you might ask yourself how trustworthy farang have shown themselves in Thailand. Go ask bar girls whether a farang has ever lied to them. Get an earful. You always getting honesty and straight answers from farang here? You might check out what happened to some of our members with their investments "managed" by farang. 

 

And you don't seem to understand Asian culture at all. Asians in general don't do straight answers well and they don't like directness. Certainly goes for Thais. Among themselves, they're the same in that regard.

 

 

The Thais certainly do not trust each other - they would have each other over at a stroke!

 

However,  Thais would take the word of another Thai over any Farang at anytime.

[JSixpack]

23 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

The Thais certainly do not trust each other - they would have each other over at a stroke!

 

All things are relative. But most Thais have trusted another Thai enough to have been betrayed or conned--without learning much from the experience. Read the news forum and you'll find many examples, notably of "investments" that didn't quite go as planned.

[Justfine]

42 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

All things are relative. But most Thais have trusted another Thai enough to have been betrayed or conned--without learning much from the experience. Read the news forum and you'll find many examples, notably of "investments" that didn't quite go as planned.

Westerners have paid scammers in Africa for years.

 

Do thais fall for this?

[JSixpack]

3 minutes ago, Justfine said:

Westerners have paid scammers in Africa for years.

 

Do thais fall for this?

 

Dunno of any stats on that but don't recall hearing anything about Thais falling for the most common Nigerian scam. Nigerians probably don't target Thais much for that one anyway. But I think there have been some Thais to fall for the "black money" scam, love (by imposters), and perhaps job abroad scams perpetrated by Africans.

[newnative]

4 hours ago, madusa said:

Of course the Thais who are tour operators complaining when the Zero dollar tours were stopped. The average thais who are not tour operators or tour agents wouldn't care whether tourists come or go.

      It wasn't just the tour operators who were complaining when the so-called zero dollar (total misnomer) tours were stopped.  It was all the mom and pop businesses, as well, that rely on tourist dollars to survive--and, in Pattaya, that's a lot of businesses, big and small.   

[JAZZDOG]

4 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

All things are relative. But most Thais have trusted another Thai enough to have been betrayed or conned--without learning much from the experience. Read the news forum and you'll find many examples, notably of "investments" that didn't quite go as planned.

Just like we all can trust the infinite wisdom we find here on Thaivisa.

 

[JSixpack]

15 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Just like we all can trust the infinite wisdom we find here on Thaivisa.

 

 

i claudius said it best:

 

 

But then he also said, quite rightly,

 

On 2/11/2016 at 10:08 AM, i claudius said:

I never said that i didn't post rubbish as well

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by JSixpack

[JAZZDOG]

Lived in Costa Rica 15 years, great when I arrived, shithole when I left for all the same reason banana republics turned tourist magnets self destruct. Always starts out LOS, more or less sincere, visions of $$$ signs dancing in their heads. Things are good, the locals selling property for crazy prices having to move farther and farther into the mountains. The beaches get covered up by resorts/gated communities. Meanwhile the locals get fat/lazy/pissing money away. The ugly farang with the US$100 bill glued to his forehead have most all the attractive young girls attention. Fast forward 15 years, the Chinese move in and trade 250 Cop cars and a beautiful soccer stadium that the local government will never be able to afford to maintain in exchange the Chinese receive exclusive offshore fishing rights killing everything 24/7/365, what a great deal! Now you have it. The locals have sold their land for a fraction of what it is currently worth and now live broke so far back in the mountains it takes all day to go shopping, their pissed. The Government got bent over, ruined the sport fishing as well as the ocean, their pissed. The younger male generation has to settle for the fat and ugly Ticas no farang will pay for, they are really pissed. But it is still all LOS because now tourism, working in bars, hotels and restaurants is a bigger % of the economy than bananas, rice and mangoes combined. They have no choice, they outsourced agro jobs to the Nicas. Difference now is the locals who never own responsibility for anything get to rob, rape and pillage with impunity offered up by a government who sees itself a victim of all things external. Fair weather friends all.

Today the farang get no breaks, pay through the nose, can't come close to selling those vacation homes/condos for anything close to what they paid. Trapped they're subjected to government regulations slanted towards making them go away. Ticos are clueless to what becomes of their country once tourism and the ecology go away. They don't care, they're going to auger in pissed, clueless but with a smile on their faces.

Sound familiar?

[JAZZDOG]

34 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

i claudius said it best:

 

 

But then he also said, quite rightly,

 

 

haha!

[thailien8]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

Lived in Costa Rica 15 years, great when I arrived, shithole when I left for all the same reason banana republics turned tourist magnets self destruct. Always starts out LOS, more or less sincere, visions of $$$ signs dancing in their heads. Things are good, the locals selling property for crazy prices having to move farther and farther into the mountains. The beaches get covered up by resorts/gated communities. Meanwhile the locals get fat/lazy/pissing money away. The ugly farang with the US$100 bill glued to his forehead have most all the attractive young girls attention. Fast forward 15 years, the Chinese move in and trade 250 Cop cars and a beautiful soccer stadium that the local government will never be able to afford to maintain in exchange the Chinese receive exclusive offshore fishing rights killing everything 24/7/365, what a great deal! Now you have it. The locals have sold their land for a fraction of what it is currently worth and now live broke so far back in the mountains it takes all day to go shopping, their pissed. The Government got bent over, ruined the sport fishing as well as the ocean, their pissed. The younger male generation has to settle for the fat and ugly Ticas no farang will pay for, they are really pissed. But it is still all LOS because now tourism, working in bars, hotels and restaurants is a bigger % of the economy than bananas, rice and mangoes combined. They have no choice, they outsourced agro jobs to the Nicas. Difference now is the locals who never own responsibility for anything get to rob, rape and pillage with impunity offered up by a government who sees itself a victim of all things external. Fair weather friends all.

Today the farang get no breaks, pay through the nose, can't come close to selling those vacation homes/condos for anything close to what they paid. Trapped they're subjected to government regulations slanted towards making them go away. Ticos are clueless to what becomes of their country once tourism and the ecology go away. They don't care, they're going to auger in pissed, clueless but with a smile on their faces.

Sound familiar?

Yes it does, and thanks for a great post.  For background on what JAZZ is talking about, read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.

[JAZZDOG]

10 minutes ago, thailien8 said:

Yes it does, and thanks for a great post.  For background on what JAZZ is talking about, read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.

Somewhat perhaps, but most of that I don't buy into, at least yet.

[thailien8]

4 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Somewhat perhaps, but most of that I don't buy into, at least yet.

Big Corporations love it when we give them our money to pay  for their advertised products that we don't need.  Then they use our money against us., buying politicians cheaply to give them tax advantages.

[JAZZDOG]

I spent a lifetime lookin' for you
Single bars and good time lovers were never true
Playing a fools game, hopin' to win
And tellin' those sweet lies and losin' again.

Chorus
I was lookin' for love in all the wrong places
Lookin' for love in too many faces
Searchin' their eyes, lookin' for traces
Of what I'm dreamin' of
Hoping to find a friend and a lover
I'll bless the day I discover,
Another heart- lookin' for cash.

And I was alone then, no love in sight
I did every thing I could to get me through the night
I don't know where it started or where it might end
I'd turn to a stranger just like a friend.

 

•  
•  
•  

 

'Cause I was looking for love in all the wrong places
Lookin' for love in too many faces
Searchin' their eyes, lookin' for traces
Of what I'm dreamin' of
Hoping to find a friend and a lover, II'll bless the day I discover,
Another heart- lookin' for cash..

And you came a knockin' at my hearts door
You're everything I've been lookin' for
There's no more lookin' for love in all the wrong places
Lookin' for love in too many faces
Searchin' their eyes, lookin' for traces
Of what I'm dreamin' of
Now that I found a friend and a lover
How much will it cost to cover

Another heart- lookin' for cash..

[norrska]

6 hours ago, thailien8 said:

Yes it does, and thanks for a great post.  For background on what JAZZ is talking about, read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.

You expect people to run out and read an entire book so they can understand one post on a thread.   Sorry, no time to go on a wild goose chase, but thanks anyway.

Edited February 16, 2018 by norrska

[norrska]

8 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Lived in Costa Rica 15 years, great when I arrived, shithole when I left for all the same reason banana republics turned tourist magnets self destruct. Always starts out LOS, more or less sincere, visions of $$$ signs dancing in their heads. Things are good, the locals selling property for crazy prices having to move farther and farther into the mountains. The beaches get covered up by resorts/gated communities. Meanwhile the locals get fat/lazy/pissing money away. The ugly farang with the US$100 bill glued to his forehead have most all the attractive young girls attention. Fast forward 15 years, the Chinese move in and trade 250 Cop cars and a beautiful soccer stadium that the local government will never be able to afford to maintain in exchange the Chinese receive exclusive offshore fishing rights killing everything 24/7/365, what a great deal! Now you have it. The locals have sold their land for a fraction of what it is currently worth and now live broke so far back in the mountains it takes all day to go shopping, their pissed. The Government got bent over, ruined the sport fishing as well as the ocean, their pissed. The younger male generation has to settle for the fat and ugly Ticas no farang will pay for, they are really pissed. But it is still all LOS because now tourism, working in bars, hotels and restaurants is a bigger % of the economy than bananas, rice and mangoes combined. They have no choice, they outsourced agro jobs to the Nicas. Difference now is the locals who never own responsibility for anything get to rob, rape and pillage with impunity offered up by a government who sees itself a victim of all things external. Fair weather friends all.

Today the farang get no breaks, pay through the nose, can't come close to selling those vacation homes/condos for anything close to what they paid. Trapped they're subjected to government regulations slanted towards making them go away. Ticos are clueless to what becomes of their country once tourism and the ecology go away. They don't care, they're going to auger in pissed, clueless but with a smile on their faces.

Sound familiar?

Totally different apples and oranges comparisons.  CR is very close to the US and so has a disproportionate number of wealthy Americans compared to the global diaspora in Thailand(many of whom are not wealthy).  CR also has almost no industry compared to Thailand economic powerhouse and also has no restrictions on foreigners buying land, resulting in prime real estate being bought up by foreigners.  Thailand has completely different laws. 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Most what is more than 50%?

 

Presumably, you think most countries with a tourist industry employ over 50% of the workforce in that sector, in which case I have to ask, on which planet!

 

Direct tourism represents about 21% of Thailands GDP, 15% of the workforce seems proportionate to me, especially since much larger percentages are employed in agriculture and services.

Wikipedia says

Estimates of tourism receipts directly contributing to the Thai GDP of 12 trillion baht range from 9 percent (one trillion baht) (2013) to 17.7 percent (2.53 trillion baht) in 2016.

That's a lot lower than your 21%.