Smoke, Smog, Dust 2018 Chiang Mai

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, vivid said:

You can check out the past week or so of historical data in the link above, the areas of moderate and dense haze.

 

Ok i shall post it here again for better clarity. 

http://www.weather.gov.sg/warning-haze-information/

 

It's escalating for sure.

 

Here was the same data source a week ago from March 8, by comparison:

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, Happystance said:

Unless you have an air-tight sealed vault which you never open and excellent filtration, staying inside is the ostrich approach.

 

Staying inside with your home's doors and windows sealed up as much as possible, and running one or more HEPA air purifiers, is about the best that anyone can do under the circumstances -- short of fleeing the region.

 

Staying outside or in indoors public places that have unfiltered air simply means you're breathing all the deadly gunk.

 

The current smog siege isn't going to last forever. It's seasonal, year after year. So even if you can only muster one HEPA air purifier, pick the best room that's sized to the purifier's capacity and hang out there, and definitely bring the purifier into your bedroom at night and run it during your sleeping hours.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's a similar updated view of current SE Asia air pollution, specifically PM2.5 levels, from the Berkeley Earth folks in the U.S.:

 

 

http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/air-quality/map.php?z=5&x=102.12329&y=23.58146&m=h&c=y&f=y&r=h

Edited March 15, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[vivid]

Not trying to fearmonger, but with such current extended high levels, those with kids and eldery with existing conditions like asthma might really consider moving out of the area until showers arrive and the conditions improve.  Might be a prudent decision.

It seems that even travelling only about 100km to the south of Chiang Mai could bring significant improvements (mostly red conditions), even if you can't move to BKK or even father south like Phuket for whatever reasons.

 

Some areas have got very little respite.  At least a few days ago you still could get red regions.

Just a little to the north of Chiang Mai.  These smoke plumes do shift around in the light winds which means the haze does not get cleared.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by vivid

[vivid]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's a very interesting and useful map... And it explains why the North is getting killed at present, while BKK for now is not so bad...

 

It also suggests the heart of the emissions problem is homegrown here, and not mainly trans-border as some apologist folks like to suggest.

 

Hope those maps can help.   They are made via actual observed satellite images for the day.

 

How do we detect land fires and smoke haze using satellite images and what are the limitations?

To help identify and highlight different features such as hotspots, smoke plumes/haze and clouds, the data from a combination of spectral channels are used to form a multi-spectral image.Three primary colours of red, green, blue (RGB) are assigned to selected spectral channels of NOAA, AQUA and TERRA satellites. In particular, the polar-orbiting satellite images that ASMC produces are based on the following colour-to-channel assignment:

RED	Visible band
GREEN	Near-infrared (NIR) Band
BLUE	Long-wavelength Infrared (LWIR) Band

 

Using this combination, hotspots are depicted in red, smoke plumes and haze in shades of yellow, and clouds in either white or blue-white. The colour assignment is not unique and various colour-to-channel combinations can be used which will result in the different features to be highlighted in a different colour.

 

Land and vegetated surfaces are strongly reflective in the NIR (green) channel spectral band, thus appearing green in the above image. Clouds can be seen in both visible and LWIR spectral bands, whereas smoke haze is normally not discernable in the IR band owing to their respective radiative properties. Therefore clouds appear white or bluish-white as it is detected by all RGB channels; smoke haze and plumes appear in shades of yellow as it is detected by only visible (red) and NIR (green). The texture of clouds is also different from that of smoke haze.

If the hotspot appears at the origin of a smoke plume, it is almost certain to be associated with an active fire. The smoke plumes will show a conical shape typical of fire emissions, with the vertex over the hot spots. Hot spots with no corresponding smoke plumes may be associated with very small scale fires or fires at the early stages of ignition.

There are limitations to the detection of smoke haze and hotspots. Overlying clouds will invariably obscure areas with smoke haze and hotspots. In the presence of low clouds or fog, the smoke detection technique may not succeed and differences in the shape and texture between smoke and cloud/fog will need to be considered. Strong reflection of sunlight can also give rise to yellowish shades and these are not related to haze.

[bubba]

Current NASA satellite imaging fire hotspot map. 

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#z:7;c:99.7,18.9;t:adv-points;d:2019-03-15..2019-03-16;l:street,countries,firms_viirs,firms_modis_a,firms_modis_t

[puukao]

CM just ranked best city in the world!  Should I move there now and buy a house?  Anyone selling?  Healthy place to retire?

 

Back to topic.  Try saline in the nose, try sleeping with face mask, try going to a clinic and getting pills, try asthma inhaler....  and really, consider moving.  life is too short.  was there a few months ago, not now

 

 

[vivid]

Edited March 16, 2019 by vivid

[somtum16]

Anyone have recommendations on where I'd find a Xiaomi air purifier or even some 3M filtrete in Chiang Mai today? I've tried Siam TV and HomePro without any luck. Ordering from Lazada would mean waiting for shipping which could take days. 

[PhotoJohn]

Here's something that might help Chaing Mai.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2128355/china-builds-worlds-biggest-air-purifier-and-it-seems-be-working

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, bubba said:

Current NASA satellite imaging fire hotspot map. 

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#z:7;c:99.7,18.9;t:adv-points;d:2019-03-15..2019-03-16;l:street,countries,firms_viirs,firms_modis_a,firms_modis_t

 Some broader context.... Thailand and neighboring SE Asia, the Hubs of Burning!!!

 

 

And if you zoom in, the worst of it does appear to be on both sides of the Thailand/Myanmar border, north of Chiang Mai, with as much or more burning activity on the Myanmar side of the border as well.

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, somtum16 said:

Anyone have recommendations on where I'd find a Xiaomi air purifier or even some 3M filtrete in Chiang Mai today? I've tried Siam TV and HomePro without any luck. Ordering from Lazada would mean waiting for shipping which could take days. 

 

Everyplace online that I've looked has been sold out of pretty much everything.

 

There may be something out there somewhere, but it's going to be hard to find.

 

On the other hand, if you live in the CM region and plan to continue living there in the future, you might as well order from Lazada if you can find something there or even from outside Thailand, because sure enough, you'll be facing the same kinds of issues again about this time next year.

 

[bubba]

2 hours ago, PhotoJohn said:

Here's something that might help Chaing Mai.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2128355/china-builds-worlds-biggest-air-purifier-and-it-seems-be-working

From the article:

 

 It was entirely powered by electricity, most of which is generated by coal-fired power plants in China.

 

Brilliant. So they removed some particulate and then generated more particulate plus CO2, NOx and SOx by burning soft coal.

[Samuel Smith]

25 minutes ago, bubba said:

From the article:

 

 It was entirely powered by electricity, most of which is generated by coal-fired power plants in China.

 

Brilliant. So they removed some particulate and then generated more particulate plus CO2, NOx and SOx by burning soft coal.

Try reading the article again.  

[icare999]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Everyplace online that I've looked has been sold out of pretty much everything.

 

There may be something out there somewhere, but it's going to be hard to find.

 

On the other hand, if you live in the CM region and plan to continue living there in the future, you might as well order from Lazada if you can find something there or even from outside Thailand, because sure enough, you'll be facing the same kinds of issues again about this time next year.

 

Xiano see review from crean air they say itsno good 

[bkk6060]

Sad I guess that many have no flexibility in CM.

Basically stuck in CM with family, a house, a condo they own, etc.

The place is a total health hazard worst in the world.

I am in Pattaya left CM a few days ago.

Some rain today in Pats, and the few days before nice and clear I could see the ocean, boats easily.

My suggestion if you are in CM with some flexibility, get out of town if you value your health.

Otherwise, do not complain when you are sick and dying from some related disgusting bad air disease.

Good luck....

 

 

[JimGant]

38 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Otherwise, do not complain when you are sick and dying from some related disgusting bad air disease.

Good luck....

 

Ok, I won't. There are so many other diseases I'll be susceptible to dying from than a week's worth of toxic air -- or more, who knows. I'm sure my 20 years of smoking (ended 30 years ago) has already done the damage. Anyway, this weeks smog hasn't even watered my eyes, or caused a cough. Would love to see the mountains again, but they'll eventually reappear.

 

So, please send your negatives about CM to all those retirement magazines that keep promoting this place.

[vivid]

Reposting this for those who are interested.

 

 

 

[vivid]

Like what the medical specialist in first video i posted has mentioned, the issue with air pollution is that it's not affecting just a particular portion of the population like in smoking.  It's affecting the whole population so just going by sheer numbers there confirm would be a health cost and definite load on the healthcare resources, which costs the govt money. A certain group of population is going to be more sensitive/susceptible to it and develop issues or have their issues excerbated.   There also will be a certain group who can withstand even AQI 1000-2000 and have no or not much health reaction to it, that has also been observed in other countries before. 

 

Same with other things, it's a probability thing, you could be having BBQ and grilling things every single day with all those PAH intake via the diet and breathing in smoke but not develop cancer even after 30 years.  But if you are unlucky enough, you might end up developing colorectal cancer in just 15 years, also not helped by being in the higher risk group due to heredity and you have family members who are sufferers as well.  

 

The group that are going to suffer most and have the most effects are going to be the elderly, the pregnant women, the young children and particularly babies (the are developing at a very fast stage), those who already have pre-existing conditions (those who get migrane headache easily, allergic rhinitis, sinusitis, asthmatics, COPD or other lung diseases like pneumonia/TB etc, heart and stroke patients). 

 

Seriously, the saddest and most heartbreaking part is with the babies and the kids, being carried unconscious to the emergency department and all.

 

2015 Indonesian haze, Kalimantan.  Baby died of "ISPA" (a short form in indonesia which denotes respiratory infection or something)

 

Note - their houses are extremely leaky.  If 1-2  air purifiers are doing an ok job in 1 room in your apartment even in the heaviest of haze at AQI 600, then they'd need 3-4 at least.  Even if there is filtration devices/N95 masks pollution donated from other countries and provinces for the lucky few who receive it, it never will be enough as the filters would be so heavily loaded.  So the poor usually have it really bad in terms of exposure.  Same thing in New Delhi and other countries.

 

 

 

 

 

Another child victim.

3:35 min

 

 

[vivid]

Seems like the conditions in Chiang Mai has improved a wee bit for the past 24 hours, not so much "hazardous brown colour" is showing on aqicn.  Too early to tell if this would be a continuous improvement, of coz, until the rain comes.  It's still pretty bad in some other areas in N Thailand.

--------------------------------------------------

 

Every time whenever there is a sudden huge deterioration of air quality during haze season, the air purifiers, aircon filters, masks would be snapped up and go out of stock.  It doesn't help things that a certain group of people are hoarders and they would purchase heckloads.   It's the same every time.  And when the season stops, people forget about it, new filters are not ordered, worse still you'd find a fair number of units ending up on the second hand sites because it takes up space, no use after haze season, "it's just a one time thingy" etc.   This not only happens in Thailand, but in other countries as well.

 

The best bet is just to order now and continue searching for existing stocks.  Even if the haze disappears tomorrow, you are prepared for it in the future.   It's called emergency prepping.   If you really need it because you have infants and small kids or elderly with medical conditions, then send it in via DHL, or consider shifting a bit down south for the next few days while waiting for the unit(s) to come in.   There is no quick and easy solution.

 

If budget is a real concern and you simply can't afford several hundreds of dollars of filtration and replacement filters, just get second hand sets and see if you have some agents that can help "buyforyou" the generic "HEPA" filters found in China from taobao.com, jd.com, tmall.com.   Just buy filters that are bigger in size than your current filter, then cut it up carefully (hobby knife etc) so that it fits, for the gaps at the side use some cling wrap or bubble wrap and stuff it in.  There still will be slight leaks at the sides, but hey so is your house.  Don't have to be overly concerned if it's not 99.99%, that few % drop in CADR is neglible in the whole picture, ie 230 m3/hr CADR vs 300 m3/hr, just because the side leaks and it's not H13.  Having zero replacement filters or having filters costing $100 every year is worse and you can't afford it.   The important thing is that there is a viable replacement source, and it's cheap enough so that it fits your budget.  No practical use if i recommend something that is 500-1000 with yearly replacement costs of $100 per unit and you can't afford it, and most likely you'd need at least 2 units, possibly 3-4.   I have encountered this before in the local forum that i regularly post in, people lose interest after a few years when moderate/heavy haze does not return and they sell the units.   But the good thing is that if you are a prepper, you can score great units for a very low price.  ????  (Samsung AX40 with 300m3/hr airflow at $50 for you sir? Very nice condition, just open it up and wipe the externals and internals with some soapy water and it's as good as new)

  As posted and measured with laser particle counters before, they still work great even at 0.5 microns for just a small fraction of the price. 

 If you can afford it then of course there is no issue, there is always stuff like IQAir with replacement particulate/gas/odor filter packs costing more than a brand new Honeywell 80250 unit.  There were cases in my country in which all the Sharp, Samsung, LGs were out of stock, but some guys went to purchase IQAir sets selling as a complete home protection package and spent over 10k.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by vivid

[roo860]

I can see Doi Suthep this morning, for a change.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Rimmer]

Indonesian and Chinese videos are off topic and have been removed

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, vivid said:

The best bet is just to order now and continue searching for existing stocks.  Even if the haze disappears tomorrow, you are prepared for it in the future.   It's called emergency prepping. 

 

That's what I've said several times here. Because if you intend to continue living in the North or even in other less impacted areas of Thailand, you can bet that the same conditions will be back during the next burning season next year. And folks who didn't prepare will once again be scrambling for supplies and finding all the local stores and suppliers sold out. It's an ever repeating process, because the government here clearly is either incapable or unwilling to do the things necessary to stop it.

 

Back when the air got bad in BKK last year, I was able to find a local air purifier purchase, but masks were hard to come by, especially in carton sizes. So I ended up ordering from Amazon U.S. and having them shipped here (N95 masks don't weight much) and still have that supply today. The price to buy from Amazon U.S. and then send here through a reshipper like Planet Express is probably less than what I'd pay if I had tried to buy the same quantity here from the local stores (once they had them in stock again AFTER the smog siege was done).

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[thaivisa63]

On 3/16/2019 at 5:51 PM, JimGant said:

Ok, I won't. There are so many other diseases I'll be susceptible to dying from than a week's worth of toxic air -- or more, who knows. I'm sure my 20 years of smoking (ended 30 years ago) has already done the damage. Anyway, this weeks smog hasn't even watered my eyes, or caused a cough. Would love to see the mountains again, but they'll eventually reappear.

 

So, please send your negatives about CM to all those retirement magazines that keep promoting this place.

It actually takes 20 years after quitting smoking for your lungs to fully recover and be as healthy as a never smoker.

I wonder if it's the same thing for those pm2.5 small enough to go deep into lungs' alveoli and the blood vessels ie if you have been living in a city with strong air pollution for a long time, would your body fully recover as well by moving to a city with a green aqi year round ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, thaivisa63 said:

It actually takes 20 years after quitting smoking for your lungs to fully recover and be as healthy as a never smoker.

 

 

The science I'm seeing on that topic disagrees with you:

 

Quote

Do Smokers' Lungs Heal After They Quit?

By Cari Nierenberg, ive Science Contributor | | June 30, 2017 11:34am ET

....

The body is very good at repairing some of the damage to lung cells and tissues caused by smoking, but not all of the damage is reversible.

Damage to the lungs and a deterioration in lung function are directly related to the number of packs of cigarettes a person typically smokes per day times the number of years the person has smoked, a measure known as "pack years," Edelman said. The greater the pack years, the more likely the lungs will have irreversible damage, he noted.

Although the lungs have ways to protect themselves from damage, these defenses are reduced with long-term exposure to the harmful chemicals inhaled from cigarettes. As a result, lung tissue can become inflamed and scarred from smoking, and so the lungs lose elasticity and can no longer exchange oxygen efficiently.

 

 

https://www.livescience.com/59667-quit-smoking-lungs-heal.html

 

Edelman is Dr. Norman Edelman, a senior scientific advisor for the American Lung Association and a specialist in pulmonary medicine.

 

The federal government also seems to recognize the notion of permanent lung damage from smoking:

 

Quote

 

Stop Lung Damage

Scarring of the lungs is not reversible. That is why it is important to quit smoking before you do permanent damage to your lungs. Within two weeks of quitting, you might notice it’s easier to walk up the stairs because you may be less short of breath.

 

 

https://smokefree.gov/quit-smoking/why-you-should-quit/benefits-of-quitting

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, DonDoRondo said:

It's almost noon and I look west and see the mountain much more distinctly today.

 

If it's like this tomorrow may be time to restart my morning walks.

Shhhh! Give those pondering  potential retirees more time to cancel their travel arrangements.

[HaleySabai]

Yes, I too was hopeful yesterday as the reading was down to 112 and the surrounding mountains came into view. ChiangMai even lost it's no#1 worst city spot dropping down to 27 at one point. But today,out here in Mae Rim, it's in the purple again (hazardous) at 336....and CM is yet again No#1.

When is this going to end?...has got to be the worst March on record!

 

 

 

[canopy]

There was a tropical storm that generated some very welcome out of season rains in Thailand earlier in the week. This probably is what caused the air quality to improve for a few days. But let's be honest, the air still stayed in the unhealthy range and is now slipping back to horrific levels. When will it end? When the rains become broad and consistent enough which is expected in late May then the air will be able to get to healthy ranges again. That can last till around October when the rains finish then it's back to this all over again. 

 

[vivid]

Wow.......

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by vivid

[KrishnaCameb4Buddha]

AQI in Chiang Mai is 650 now, 7:50 AM, Sat Mar 23, near Kad Suan Kaew.  NOT the 300s and 400's showing on the aqicn.org website.  One hour ago it was close to 750.  AQI is, however, around 200 in my room with two separate air filters at work.

 

Temptop meter, $150, available from Amazon.  The meter is always in agreement when the AQI on the aqicn.org website shows readings under 400 or so. 

 

But as soon as the readings are way, way beyond even Pakistan, India, etc readings, someone has figured out how to fudge the numbers on the website so Chiang Mai doesn't appear even more bizarrely bad than the-200=400's they claim.