Pattaya bar fight: Key witness says Australian man beaten to death over “misunderstanding”

[Stupooey]

13 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

But Sid Bream had a point I think. When I first read the story I did wonder if the killer had an MMA / cage fighting background or had at least trained. When cage fighters get into street fights they are known to keep going until their opponent is completely unconscious, and maybe even carry on some more.

 

A mate of mine told me he felt sick after seeing a fight in a club back home in Essex when the victor just kept driving his fists into the face of the loser even though he was clearly out cold. It turned out that was a cage fighter.

 

 

You can take a guy out of the cage, but you can't take the cage out of the guy.

[SpeakeasyThai]

Glad i was not there!

Soi 6 Pattaya -  i will avoid the happy hour.

[Old Croc]

What this killer did had nothing to do with cage fighting!

 

MMA illegal moves include:

"Kicks/Knees/Stomps to the Head of a Grounded Opponent"

 

 

[Denim]

Can a Thai persons face actually turn blue in a dark bar ?

 

What shade of blue ? Sky blue ? Dark blue ?

 

I'd like to see the CCTV footage for myself before I believe any further reports on this case.

[GOLDBUGGY]

16 hours ago, RareDingo said:

I'm never sure about internet news, or any news anymore.  News outlets sometimes just trying to sell news, any news, to make a buck.  However, IF and I say IF this man has been charged with murder before (so young 42 to be out of jail), how they hell did he ever get a passport and how the hell did the Thai customs authorities ever let this piece of work into their country.  They are only asking for trouble, which they got, or more, some poor bastard on holiday's messing around with a Thai bar lady.  The mind boggles.  I hope the truth comes out, and those posting picks on social media are just as complicit in this crazy act as the boofhead who clearly has an anger management issue.  JMHO

Firstly, a Criminal Record does not disqualify anyone from getting a Passport. 

 

Secondly countries do not share data bases on files that contain people who have a Criminal Record. Only Canada and the United States do that. So Thailand Immigration would have no idea if he had a Criminal Record or not. Only wanted Criminals are shared data bases from Interpol. Since he was not a wanted criminal again they had no way of knowing his past hsitory. 

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, Crash999 said:

First that it was a group attack.

No. One attacker others taking photos. Instead of trying to stop it they encouraged it and should also be charged.

[Old Croc]

Good to see there is now CCTV coverage, and also credible witnesses to debunk the crap about the victim lifting and choking the bargirl.

The idiotic self defense plea should also be shown to be just typical victim blaming to try to excuse extreme violent behavior. 

[charmonman]

2 hours ago, chicowoodduck said:

This whole story has gone beyond being a joke.....just close down all the bars and  let all the <deleted> head back to Suvarnabhumi Airport and leave the safe and sane folks to enjoy some quiet with the Chinese...<deleted>.....?????

 

Or maybe, as a first step, just not allow people with serious criminal records (things like rape and murder), into the country in the first place! 

[crankshaft]

13 hours ago, marinediscoking said:

Happened on a Friday and took the police until Tuesday to get witness statements from the staff. That is disgraceful. 

 

Police everywhere will tell you, "every witness has a different version of events that happened."

they were ther in minutes...didn't say what day though...

[SoulWater]

A misunderstanding is forgetting to pay for your goceries - this is murder by someone getting involved in something that was nothing to do with them and showing off

[GOLDBUGGY]

12 hours ago, marinediscoking said:

Happened on a Friday and took the police until Tuesday to get witness statements from the staff. That is disgraceful. 

 

Police everywhere will tell you, "every witness has a different version of events that happened."

Generally Police do not discuss a case that is ongoing. Other than a suspect is being detained and held and is being questioned.

 

They report to there Commanding Officer and the Prosecuter. They do not have to report to the public or you. So if they give you any crumbs later, be grateful for that.  

[charmonman]

9 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Firstly, a Criminal Record does not disqualify anyone from getting a Passport. 

 

Secondly countries do not share data bases on files that contain people who have a Criminal Record. Only Canada and the United States do that. So Thailand Immigration would have no idea if he had a Criminal Record or not. Only wanted Criminals are shared data bases from Interpol. Since he was not a wanted criminal again they had no way of knowing his past hsitory. 

Maybe they should start sharing this information on criminal records more widely then. At least do a criminal record check before giving people visas and maybe require a visa from everybody (forget the 30 day visa free entry thing).

[sanemax]

11 hours ago, Sid Bream said:

So your girlfriend was being choked or a girl is being choked and you don't ask what's going on? OK......
What "bouncers"?

Although we are not talking about anyones girlfriend and we are not talking about "asking whats going on" , this is an issue of a violent intervention .

    It may have been that the American guy was a previous customer of the B/G and he didnt like the attention that she was receiving from someone else . 

[ebean001]

It seems like we have lost the ability to talk and resort to violence immediately. A simple question would have resolved this but nope....violence then ask questions later. I wasn't there. I do not know the truth. I just make an observation about how people are becoming. 

[kwak250]

13 minutes ago, car720 said:

Just a coincidence I suppose but I dreamed that I was out hunting in the woods and I came across a rabid dog, foaming at the mouth.  What do you suppose I did?

Gave it a kiss?

[cat handler]

17 hours ago, RareDingo said:

I'm never sure about internet news, or any news anymore.  News outlets sometimes just trying to sell news, any news, to make a buck.  However, IF and I say IF this man has been charged with murder before (so young 42 to be out of jail), how they hell did he ever get a passport and how the hell did the Thai customs authorities ever let this piece of work into their country.  They are only asking for trouble, which they got, or more, some poor bastard on holiday's messing around with a Thai bar lady.  The mind boggles.  I hope the truth comes out, and those posting picks on social media are just as complicit in this crazy act as the boofhead who clearly has an anger management issue.  JMHO

 

Anyone can get a passport, however getting a visa is a different story, with his history he would not have been able to get a visa to Australia or most other first world countries, even an Aussie with a drug conviction can’t get a visa to the US or Canada. The Thai Immigration really need to step up, they know who is coming on the planes and it would be easy to liaise with the U.S counterparts to do a criminal check on passengers on incoming flights, they would usually know weeks in advance who is booked on a flight.

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, ebean001 said:

It seems like we have lost the ability to talk and resort to violence immediately. A simple question would have resolved this but nope....violence then ask questions later. I wasn't there. I do not know the truth. I just make an observation about how people are becoming. 

You cannot judge the whole human race on this one occurrence 

[GOLDBUGGY]

10 minutes ago, charmonman said:

Maybe they should start sharing this information on criminal records more widely then. At least do a criminal record check before giving people visas and maybe require a visa from everybody (forget the 30 day visa free entry thing).

Not Feasible! Even this Data Base shared by Canada and the United States will not show when somebody has been granted a Pardon. 

 

Since this Anerican was a Teen when his first Manslaughter took place he could have, and probably did, apply for a Pardon long ago. Only Murder 1 and High Treason cannot do this as there sentence is for life. You sentence must be completed before you can apply for a Pardon. So if he kept his nose clean until then, he most likely was granted a Pardon. So his Criminal Record would have been errased from the Public Eye. 

 

The reality of it all is that you can't prevent people like this from entering your country. You also can't keep throwing out the full barrel of apples everytime you find one rotten one it it. The price you pay for welcoming all tourist is you get a bad one every once in awhile. 

[cat handler]

17 hours ago, Sid Bream said:

We do not know what was said between the two of them and will probably never know, add alcohol and stupidity and then this is the result. If both men were drunk, which is what is alleged, then there are mitigating circumstances already.
 

 

Since when has being drunk been a defense, sorry officer it wasn’t my fault I smashed into another car, I was drunk. If the murderer claims he was drunk this time what is his excuse for his last murder? I also suspect the American was effected by more than just beer, most probably a bit of Roid Rage in there.

Edited February 15, 2018 by cat handler

[Eagle60]

The damage left behind is not repairable. The families of the victims have to live with this for the rest of their lives. Every day it will come into their thoughts and I would imagine on occasions, have nightmares when they try to sleep. More thought should be given to the victims whose life's thugs like this destroy and the families lives they destroy. Imagine what they are going through. It must be horrid. I feel so sorry for them.

Edited February 15, 2018 by davidcc
want to chnage it

[Easy Come Easy Go]

2 hours ago, alfalfa19 said:

I sincerely hope this character is sentenced to a Thai prison, and that he is misunderstood in there. 

I don't fully understand the practices and laws regarding extradition. This guy has been sentenced and jailed for murder in the US, so if he is convicted here and in fact does get sent back home, will get get a second murder sentence there, and most likely life without parole considering it is the US, where normally one murder charge is life or the death sentence..?

[alex8912]

26 minutes ago, ebean001 said:

It seems like we have lost the ability to talk and resort to violence immediately. A simple question would have resolved this but nope....violence then ask questions later. I wasn't there. I do not know the truth. I just make an observation about how people are becoming. 

You need to add four words to your last sentence "when alchohol is involved"

[Mattd]

21 minutes ago, charmonman said:

Maybe they should start sharing this information on criminal records more widely then. At least do a criminal record check before giving people visas and maybe require a visa from everybody (forget the 30 day visa free entry thing).

Idon't disagree, but doing away with the visa exempt entry would be a huge trade off from Thailand's point of view, possibly missing out on millions of tourists per year, a bit extreme for what is a few events in reality and it wouldn't necessarily resolve the issue anyway, even folks with no criminal record can get violent.

Even doing criminal record checks on every single visa applicant would be detrimental, as this takes time to do.

[Mattd]

19 minutes ago, Easy Come Easy Go said:

I don't fully understand the practices and laws regarding extradition. This guy has been sentenced and jailed for murder in the US, so if he is convicted here and in fact does get sent back home, will get get a second murder sentence there, and most likely life without parole considering it is the US, where normally one murder charge is life or the death sentence..?

If convicted in a Thai court, then he MAY be eligible to go back to a US prison within the prisoner exchange system after a certain period of time, the US would have to honour whatever sentence the Thai courts handed out in that case.

The US courts could not try him for this offense.

 

Edit: I stand corrected, it seems that the US system will actually review the case after transfer and decide how long they should remain in prison for etc.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-oeo/legacy/2014/06/06/americans-arrested.pdf

Edited February 15, 2018 by Mattd

[Peterw42]

22 minutes ago, cat handler said:

 

Anyone can get a passport, however getting a visa is a different story, with his history he would not have been able to get a visa to Australia or most other first world countries, even an Aussie with a drug conviction can’t get a visa to the US or Canada. The Thai Immigration really need to step up, they know who is coming on the planes and it would be easy to liaise with the U.S counterparts to do a criminal check on passengers on incoming flights, they would usually know weeks in advance who is booked on a flight.

Even the places that wont let you in, its usually a declaration on an application form, have ever been convicted of etc, you answer yes or no. You dont usually need to provide a police check or proof etc.

Thai immigration has no idea who is on an incoming plane, how can they. Do you really think airlines are sharing their bookings (that would be changing hourly) with Thai immigration ?

 

[Baerboxer]

17 hours ago, Sid Bream said:

We do not know what was said between the two of them and will probably never know, add alcohol and stupidity and then this is the result. If both men were drunk, which is what is alleged, then there are mitigating circumstances already.

Just as a side note, how many people/members watch MMA here? What do they do in MMA, they punch, they knee, they elbow their opponent when their opponent is on the ground. This fellow obviously wanted to hand out a hiding and it went too far.

 

Being pissed up on alcohol doesn't mitigate anything.

[toofarnorth]

2 hours ago, maxman71 said:

Regardless whether this was a misunderstanding or not, nothing justifies what this predator did. Even if the Aussie guy was being aggressive towards the bar girl, nothing can justify stomping on his head like the Yank did. And, if it is true the Yank has murdered before as the article claims, it just further substantiates this guy is a violent predator. He should never see the light of freedom the rest of his life.

Indeed , imagine if he was let loose to prowl the bars again like a mangey lion. How long before it attacked again ?  IMO , best to have it put down.

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, Adeeos said:

 

What about the initial report whereas some bar staff said the Aussie was a, "known troublemaker",,, ??

Isn't that what I posted?

[cat handler]

12 hours ago, Sid Bream said:

So your girlfriend was being choked or a girl is being choked and you don't ask what's going on? OK......

What "bouncers"?

You are right, you do ASK what’s going on, you DONT bash them unconscious then kick them in the head 15 times while they lay unconscious on the ground. What I would like to know is why didn’t the other 15 staff members do anything when their coworker was grabbed around the throat and lifted off the ground, well that’s the story and I challenged anyone to lift another person off the ground by the throat with one hand.

[alfalfa19]

37 minutes ago, Easy Come Easy Go said:

I don't fully understand the practices and laws regarding extradition. This guy has been sentenced and jailed for murder in the US, so if he is convicted here and in fact does get sent back home, will get get a second murder sentence there, and most likely life without parole considering it is the US, where normally one murder charge is life or the death sentence..?

I'm not sure either, even though I live in the US.  I just hope this murderous lowlife meets an unpleasant end.