U.S. charges Russians with 2016 U.S. election tampering to boost Trump

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Why not provide a source for Rosenstein's on the record claim so it can be considered in context?

 

 

It's already been posted on this thread. I see no reason to keep repeating things just for you.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's already been posted on this thread. I see no reason to keep repeating things just for you.

Ah, but that link says something different from your claim.

[Khun Han]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43095881

 

"Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said there was no allegation that any American was "a knowing participant in this illegal activity""

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43095881

 

"Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said there was no allegation that any American was "a knowing participant in this illegal activity""

You really don't see the difference with the claim made here?

[mogandave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43095881
 
"Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said there was no allegation that any American was "a knowing participant in this illegal activity""

Rosenstein is in Trump’s pocket. He’ll say what he’s told to say.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43095881

 

"Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said there was no allegation that any American was "a knowing participant in this illegal activity""

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rosenstein has gone on record as saying NO AMERICAN took part knowingly as part of a "collusion".

 

 

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

You really don't see the difference with the claim made here?

 

No, I don't. But I'm making myself comfortable for the excruciating bout of hair-splitting that's about to take place.

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Khun Han

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

No, I don't. But I'm making myself comfortable for the excruciating bout of hair-splitting that's about to take place.

 

No, if you don't see the difference there is no point. You do realise btw that thaibeachlovers' claim was incorrect?

Edited February 17, 2018 by stevenl

[Khun Han]

Just now, stevenl said:

No, if you don't see the difference there is no point.

 

There isn't any substantive difference, unless one starts playing with words.

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

There isn't any substantive difference, unless one starts playing with words.

If you're comparing an incorrect quote with yours there is no difference. If you compare the correct quote with yours there are major differences.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

If you're comparing an incorrect quote with yours there is no difference. If you compare the correct quote with yours there are major differences.

 

what on earth are you going on about?

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

what on earth are you going on about?

See post #67.

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

See post #67.

 

Sorry, you're not making any sense.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Sorry, you're not making any sense.

I guess it is simply too much for you, understanding of plain and simple English.

[KhaoNiaw]

9 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Suggesting that large swathes of the American electorate are easily swayed and influenced by such things, is an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their integrity.

Seriously, do some reading and investigation as to what's been going on. Russians in the same location were responsible for putting Americans on the streets in demonstration and counter-demonstration. Take a little bit of time to research and digest. It's not saying Americans are idiots - but your immediate reaction to the story is one of the reasons that it's so easy for them.

 

I don't really blame the Russians. They're way ahead of any western power on tactics like this. Putin's got no opposition in the election and the Internet Research Center they're talking about here are also engaged in domestic disinformation and misinformation against Alexei Navalny. Fascinating stuff on how they operate once you look into it all - and the echo chambers and astro-turfing offered by Facebook, Twitter and the like has an enormous influence, whether you like and accept it or not.

Mueller seems to have done a very thorough job of following the trails and digging up the evidence to get right back to source. The Russians don't care - job done and ongoing for them. 

Worse than the Russians are the so-called 'patriots' at home who have engaged in the same tactics as the Russians (and perhaps collaborated with them on occasion). I'm pretty sure when it all finally comes out in the wash, it will be seen that a lot of Mercer money illegally went into Brexit in the UK. Something else that was subject to the Russian trolls and bots but also, of course, the domestic fake accounts, bots and trolls. 

Nice that a detailed picture of what the Russians are doing has emerged but there are plenty of our fellow countrymen who engaged in the same practices in recent events. They'll be happy just to keep the spotlight on the Russians.

Edited February 17, 2018 by KhaoNiaw

[Khun Han]

27 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I guess it is simply too much for you, understanding of plain and simple English.

 

Oh, I understand plain and simple English alright. I do struggle with cryptic gibberish though.

[Khun Han]

20 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Seriously, do some reading and investigation as to what's been going on. Russians in the same location were responsible for putting Americans on the streets in demonstration and counter-demonstration. Take a little bit of time to research and digest. It's not saying Americans are idiots - but your immediate reaction to the story is one of the reasons that it's so easy for them.

 

I don't really blame the Russians. They're way ahead of any western power on tactics like this. Putin's got no opposition in the election and the Internet Research Center they're talking about here are also engaged in domestic disinformation and misinformation against Alexei Navalny. Fascinating stuff on how they operate once you look into it all - and the echo chambers and astro-turfing offered by Facebook, Twitter and the like has an enormous influence, whether you like and accept it or not.

Mueller seems to have done a very thorough job of following the trails and digging up the evidence to get right back to source. The Russians don't care - job done and ongoing for them. 

Worse than the Russians are the so-called 'patriots' at home who have engaged in the same tactics as the Russians (and perhaps collaborated with them on occasion). I'm pretty sure when it all finally comes out in the wash, it will be seen that a lot of Mercer money illegally went into Brexit in the UK. Something else that was subject to the Russian trolls and bots but also, of course, the domestic fake accounts, bots and trolls. 

Nice that a detailed picture of what the Russians are doing has emerged but there are plenty of our fellow countrymen who engaged in the same practices in recent events. They'll be happy just to keep the spotlight on the Russians.

 

"I'm pretty sure when it all finally comes out in the wash, it will be seen that a lot of Mercer money illegally went into Brexit in the UK. Something else that was subject to the Russian trolls and bots but also, of course, the domestic fake accounts, bots and trolls."

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/facebook-no-evidence-russia-interfered-in-brexit-2017-11

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/08/youtube-says-no-evidence-of-russian-interference-in-brexit-vote

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/study-casts-doubt-about-russian-interference-in-brexit-referendum-1.3332326

[stevenl]

23 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Oh, I understand plain and simple English alright. I do struggle with cryptic gibberish though.

Clearly not, since you don't understand rosenstein's words.

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Clearly not, since you don't understand rosenstein's words.

 

Rosenstein's words are obvious. Why don't you just do away with the cryptic nonsense, and get on with splitting hairs over what he said and what Thaibeachlovers said he said?

[KhaoNiaw]

23 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

"I'm pretty sure when it all finally comes out in the wash, it will be seen that a lot of Mercer money illegally went into Brexit in the UK. Something else that was subject to the Russian trolls and bots but also, of course, the domestic fake accounts, bots and trolls."

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/facebook-no-evidence-russia-interfered-in-brexit-2017-11

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/08/youtube-says-no-evidence-of-russian-interference-in-brexit-vote

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/study-casts-doubt-about-russian-interference-in-brexit-referendum-1.3332326

 

From one of the articles linked to here:

Quote

It could not be determined if Russia had used other, not-yet-identified accounts to seek to influence the vote. Damian Collins, a Conservative who is leading the parliamentary committee’s inquiry, called the company’s response “completely inadequate”.

In a letter to the company, Mr Collins noted on December 13th that he had requested a list of accounts tied to the Kremlin-linked Internet Research Agency “and any other Russian linked accounts that it has removed and examples of any posts from these accounts that are linked to the United Kingdom”.

As I understand it, the social media companies have still not supplied the list of accounts belonging to the Internet Research Agency that the committee has requested. 

 

There are plenty of people looking into this. My favourite was the guy supposedly in Bristol who basically did a day's work tweeting and sharing pro-Brexit, pro-Trump and pro-Putin stuff on what would be a 9-5 working day in St. Petersburg. 

Not to mention the 'Texan' in St. Petersburg responsible for this story:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/13/russian-bot-behind-false-claim-muslim-woman-ignored-victims/

 

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

 

From one of the articles linked to here:

As I understand it, the social media companies have still not supplied the list of accounts belonging to the Internet Research Agency that the committee has requested. 

 

There are plenty of people looking into this. My favourite was the guy supposedly in Bristol who basically did a day's work tweeting and sharing pro-Brexit, pro-Trump and pro-Putin stuff on what would be a 9-5 working day in St. Petersburg. 

Not to mention the 'Texan' in St. Petersburg responsible for this story:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/13/russian-bot-behind-false-claim-muslim-woman-ignored-victims/

 

 

That's the complaint by an MP about the completeness of the independent report.

 

The categoric rebuttals by Facebook and YouTube of your claims are just to be swept under the carpet then?

[KhaoNiaw]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

That's the complaint by an MP about the completeness of the independent report.

 

The categoric rebuttals by Facebook and YouTube of your claims are just to be swept under the carpet then?

Yes. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary and they also said the same at first in the US before they started looking into it. You actually believe what Facebook and Twitter report about themselves?
 

This is what the committee chair, a Conservative incidentally, thinks:

Quote

"I think it shows that Russian-controlled accounts have been politically active in the UK as well as America," Mr Collins told Wired UK. "This could just be the tip of the iceberg because we've only really just started looking and doing a proper detailed study of what accounts linked to Russian organisations have been doing politically."

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by KhaoNiaw

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

9 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

That's the complaint by an MP about the completeness of the independent report.

 

The categoric rebuttals by Facebook and YouTube of your claims are just to be swept under the carpet then?

Yes. There's plenty of evidence to the contrary and they also said the same at first in the US before they started looking into it. You actually believe what Facebook and Twitter report about themselves?
 

This is what the committee chair, a Conservative incidentally, thinks:

Quote

"I think it shows that Russian-controlled accounts have been politically active in the UK as well as America," Mr Collins told Wired UK. "This could just be the tip of the iceberg because we've only really just started looking and doing a proper detailed study of what accounts linked to Russian organisations have been doing politically."

 

"You actually believe what Facebook and Twitter report about themselves?"

 

But you prefer to believe what a politician with an agenda "thinks", over the US-owned and based companies who actually have the information? How naive!

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's already been posted on this thread. I see no reason to keep repeating things just for you.

You were referring to the article about Russians being charged?  In that case, I can see why you don't like to post sources.  You present things ridiculously out of context.  Troll much?

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rosenstein has gone on record as saying NO AMERICAN took part knowingly as part of a "collusion".

It is the FBI's job to take actions "to prevent future Russian interference" and the person that would order that would be Rosenstein, as Sessions has recused himself on matter Russian. Trump can't interfere with FBI operations.

 

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43095881

 

"Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said there was no allegation that any American was "a knowing participant in this illegal activity""

thaibeachlovers posted "Rosenstein has gone on record as saying NO AMERICAN took part knowingly as part of a "collusion"." 

 

Your link is to an article about FBI charges against Russian trolls.  It does not show Rosenstein commenting on collusion during the Presidential campaign. 

[Khun Han]

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

thaibeachlovers posted "Rosenstein has gone on record as saying NO AMERICAN took part knowingly as part of a "collusion"." 

 

Your link is to an article about FBI charges against Russian trolls.  It does not show Rosenstein commenting on collusion during the Presidential campaign. 

 

The FBI charges against Russian trolls is the subject of this thread. Do we now have to preface every statement and opinion on this thread with that fact? If so, why haven't you done so with all of your posts?

 

Told you they'd start with the word play eventually folks.

[KhaoNiaw]

37 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

"You actually believe what Facebook and Twitter report about themselves?"

 

But you prefer to believe what a politician with an agenda "thinks", over the US-owned and based companies who actually have the information? How naive!

We're both naive I think! 
He's not just a politician with an agenda. He's leading a parliamentary enquiry and even though he's a Tory, I'd take his concerns before any US corporation with little accountability that is in denial about its own responsibilities, and doing as much as possible to deflect attention from its own shortcomings. Still each to their own. 

I'll go back and dig up some of the Russians posting as UK citizens that were outed if I can find them. It's very entertaining, especially the ones whose English slips a little or was just slightly off in the first place. Here's a link to a story but it's much more fun when you see it on Twitter:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/twitter-warrior-david-jones-denounced-as-russian-based-kremlin-stooge-2xj850vdt

I'm not actually bothered about the Russian bots and trolls. Our countries are behind but will have to come up with ways to deal with it. Much more interesting are the connections between the likes of Assange, Farage, Banks, Mercer, Cambridge Analytica, etc. (with the odd dodgy Russian thrown in for good measure). Follow the money and look closer to home to see what's really going on. But that's a whole other topic and not the story we're commenting on here.

Edited February 17, 2018 by KhaoNiaw

[Jingthing]

It's just a SLICE so far. 

More is coming. 

Likely much more.

That is unless "trump" goes nuclear and starts firing people again.

 

Quote

 

The Contours of a Potential Collusion Case Are Beginning to Emerge

...
The president’s extrapolation that no allegation of collusion being “in this indictment” proves “NO COLLUSION” occurred has no basis in reality, though. The indictment itself offered a number of potential clues about where special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation might be going next.
 

Bloomberg News, in fact, reported that the indictment “should be seen as a limited slice of a comprehensive investigation,” according to a person with knowledge of the probe.

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Jingthing

[heybruce]

25 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The FBI charges against Russian trolls is the subject of this thread. Do we now have to preface every statement and opinion on this thread with that fact? If so, why haven't you done so with all of your posts?

 

Told you they'd start with the word play eventually folks.

Yes, this topic is about FBI charges against Russian trolls.  In fact, the article stated " The indictment is silent on the question of whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Kremlin, which Mueller is investigating." 

 

However thaibeachlover brought up the topic of collusion, and stated "Rosenstein has gone on record as saying NO AMERICAN took part knowingly as part of a "collusion"."  He even put collusion in quotes, to emphasize it.  Either thaibeachlover was referring to a Rosenstein statement that was not part of this article (in which case he should have provided a source) or he was blatantly misrepresenting (some would say lying about) what Rosenstein said.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, KhaoNiaw said:

We're both naive I think! 
He's not just a politician with an agenda. He's leading a parliamentary enquiry and even though he's a Tory, I'd take his concerns before any US corporation with little accountability that is in denial about its own responsibilities, and doing as much as possible to deflect attention from its own shortcomings. Still each to their own. 

I'll go back and dig up some of the Russians posting as UK citizens that were outed if I can find them. It's very entertaining, especially the ones whose English slips a little or was just slightly off in the first place. Here's a link to a story but it's much more fun when you see it on Twitter:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/twitter-warrior-david-jones-denounced-as-russian-based-kremlin-stooge-2xj850vdt

I'm not actually bothered about the Russian bots and trolls. Much more interesting are the connections between the likes of Assange, Farage, Banks, Mercer, Cambridge Analytica, etc. (with the odd dodgy Russian thrown in for good measure). Follow the money and look closer to home to see what's really going on. But that's a whole other topic and not the story we're commenting on here.

 

Damian Collins is very much a politician with an agenda. His hounding of social media companies to come up with something on Russian interference in the brexit campaign has everything to do with his ongoing high profile involvement with the remain cause. An involvement which included setting up his own YouTube channel to propagate Project Fear's lies, including George Osborn's lie that half-a-million-or-more jobs would disappear in the months that followed a vote to leave, and a false claim that Spain's prime minister had said that British expats would lose their right to live in Spain should we vote for brexit.

 

He also has a dodgy record on expenses:

 

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkestone/news/mp-tried-to-claim-6000-119106/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-who-own-london-homes-still-claim-rent-2151575.html

 

And then there's this unnecessary and extravagant 'jolly' to the USA:

 

https://order-order.com/2018/02/06/damian-collins-fake-news-jolly-us-costing-taxpayer-30000/

 

Makes one wonder what motivates his promotion of George Soros, a man who is no friend of the UK.

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes, this topic is about FBI charges against Russian trolls.  In fact, the article stated " The indictment is silent on the question of whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Kremlin, which Mueller is investigating." 

 

However thaibeachlover brought up the topic of collusion, and stated "Rosenstein has gone on record as saying NO AMERICAN took part knowingly as part of a "collusion"."  He even put collusion in quotes, to emphasize it.  Either thaibeachlover was referring to a Rosenstein statement that was not part of this article (in which case he should have provided a source) or he was blatantly misrepresenting (some would say lying about) what Rosenstein said.

 

You're getting yourself into a muddle. The 'no collusion' being discussed is the 'no collusion' with the Russian trolls who have been charged. As this is the subject of the thread, why would you try to interpret Thaibeachlovers' comment any other way?