Armed deputy at Florida high school resigns after failing to engage shooter

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I also suspect that his 'resignation' is at least partly due to him feeling very ashamed.

He is distraught - because he thought he did a good job, he thought he did the right thing. He cordoned off the area, stopped anyone else going in and called for back up. Sounds like training to me. Anyway, that is his take on it, so I guess he has resigned because of the overwhelming negative reaction from armchair warriors.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I feel somewhat sorry for the armed deputy.  He was clearly in the wrong job, as he didn't have the courage to move forward and try to stop the massacre.

 

I also suspect that his 'resignation' is at least partly due to him feeling very ashamed.

I think most of us have had the feeling of being in over our head in work situations but it's very unusual for such incidents to be so consequential and publicized. The president called this guy a coward by name. Wow. I don't think that's right either especially before any conclusions of official investigations. 

 

What might have happened differently if he had gone in we'll never know.

 

The fact that the shooter wasn't looking for death by cops or didn't shoot himself is very unusual in itself. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Jingthing

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Andaman Al said:

He is distraught - because he thought he did a good job, he thought he did the right thing. He cordoned off the area, stopped anyone else going in and called for back up. Sounds like training to me. Anyway, that is his take on it, so I guess he has resigned because of the overwhelming negative reaction from armchair warriors.

Does anyone have a link to the cctv?

 

At the end of the day, he preferred to save his own life by making no attempt to stop the slaughter other than by talking to others - even though he was supposed to be the armed security.

 

As I mentioned previously, I feel somewhat sorry for him.  He was in the wrong job - and is likely to feel ashamed for the rest of his life.

[RKASA]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

I see you have a PhD in Hindsight then !

 

It does't matter how tall and heavy you are, one bullet will drop you like an elephant.

 

How did the officer know that the shooter is a 'confused nitwit'?

 

How did the officer know how many shooters there were?

 

How did the officer know it was not a terror attack with trained killers ( i guess you mean a muslim jihadi attack)? - oh wait a minute it WAS a terror attack - with a White natural born American - so lets just classify it is a mad crazy man lunatic shooting, and if it was a muslim or immigrant a terror attack  - so build that wall.

 

Monday morning quarterbacks all talking like the guy is playing call of duty with a game reset button. Nobody knows how anyone will react when bullets start flying. I have seen the 'man mountain' turn to a pile of jelly in a combat situation, was he a coward, not at all, he just had a very different instinctual reaction to what was wanted at the time.

 

What happens when we give teachers guns and they "freeze' and hide under the table? The most ironic thing is something the Trump supporters just kind of miss. Yesterday we have Trump effectively calling this Deputy a coward - and everyone is  cheering. This coming from the "Commander in Chief' so s**t scared of going to Vietnam he invented 'bone spurs' on his feet - sorry 'foot' (and he can't remember which one it was!).

 

The shooter might be mad, it is debatable, but the fact that the country is mad is indisputable.

It is all based on current reports and long standing law enforcement procedure established in 1999 - none of what I said is Monday morning stuff.  I pointed to the person that said it and any ref to the size of the officer is only a question about this one officer which is the topic.  What does anything said by Trump have to do with anything I said?  I never mentioned his remarks or arming teachers that I can ever recall.  Read it again and note it does not matter if it is one person or terrorism as on site officer during "active shooter" you go in and kill on site to stop or slow the shooter - that is his job.  Not doing so is what his boss said "made him sick to see on video".  I don't give one damn about what Trump thinks or says.

[Jingthing]

Without minimizing the death and suffering of the victims (and survivors) in the school at all, can you imagine if the president called you out by name as a coward? Yeah, he might be but that's not the point.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Jingthing

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Without minimizing the death and suffering of the victims (and survivors) in the school at all, can you imagine if the president called you out by name as a coward? Yeah, he might be but that's not the point.

At the end of the day, trump was right insofar as this deputy behaved cowardly, and will likely suffer the shame for the rest of his life.

 

Not sure why you too are desperate to bring trump into this thread .

Edited February 24, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

At the end of the day, trump was right insofar as this deputy behaved cowardly, and will likely suffer the shame for the rest of his life.

 

Not sure why you brought trump into this thread .

No? Because he called out the subject of this thread out by name and he's the president. Duh. 

[Andaman Al]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Not sure why you brought trump into this thread .

Mass shooting - Gun control - Trump. Statements at a rally by Commander in Chief about the incident and the actions of the Deputy - Trump. One of the biggest crime issues facing the USA - Trump. Suggesting teachers should all be armed - Trump.

 

Why would we not bring the POTUS into this discussion?

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:33 AM, impulse said:

 

But it may be a much longer life...  90 seconds into the attack, he had no clue how many gunmen were involved, or how heavily they were armed.  Going after a guy (or guys) with AR15s, armed only with a sidearm?  Waiting for backup is SOP.  

 

Maybe not admirable, but we don't pay them enough to get shot.

Any "law officer" not prepared to risk his life to protect the people he is paid to protect should never have been in that position, IMO. Even the coach gave his own life to save his students. Had he been armed perhaps he could have saved more.

If cops don't want to risk their life to do their job, go work at a shopping mall.

Good cops get killed all the time doing their job, and this guy apparently let them down.

 

NB I'm not saying that he should have HAD to die, but if he wasn't prepared to do so he should not have been in that job.

Plenty of unemployed retired military that put their lives on the line in the current wars to have been employed instead of him.

 

Only proviso I have is to wonder if he had the training, the skills and the body armour to have been confident to enter without SWAT there?

 

Something I'd like to know, and I'm sure a lot of other people too, is what were the orders he had been given for such a scenario? Was he even given any? Was there a plan? Was he ordered not to enter and wait for SWAT?

Apparently other deputies arrived from the same office and none of them went in during the shooting. It wasn't till deputies from a different office came that anyone went in, but after it was over.

That narrative could change, but seems pretty definite at the moment.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

He is distraught - because he thought he did a good job, he thought he did the right thing. He cordoned off the area, stopped anyone else going in and called for back up. Sounds like training to me. Anyway, that is his take on it, so I guess he has resigned because of the overwhelming negative reaction from armchair warriors.

Seems to me that he may have been doing what he was supposed to do, but if that was the case why did his own boss say he should have gone in?

I expect we'll be finding out a lot of things in the days to come, and in some of the things certain people should have known better than saying things before the facts were known.

Absolutely he had to resign once his name was out there, and I suspect he has moved far away, and possibly under a false name. I fear he will be scapegoated, which already happened by the sheriff and others.

I doubt he can be prosecuted as apparently the SCOTUS said police don't have to risk their lives.

[thaibeachlovers]

57 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Does anyone have a link to the cctv?

 

At the end of the day, he preferred to save his own life by making no attempt to stop the slaughter other than by talking to others - even though he was supposed to be the armed security.

 

As I mentioned previously, I feel somewhat sorry for him.  He was in the wrong job - and is likely to feel ashamed for the rest of his life.

It's a tricky situation though. What if he had gone in and shot the wrong student, or fired and the bullet killed someone else? If his orders were to not go in and he did so anyway and killed a student by mistake he'd be in big trouble regardless of intent.

Whatever he did, other than dying heroically, could have ended badly for him. If dead or wounded, it would still be bad for him, but he'd be a hero.

[dick dasterdly]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No? Because he called out the subject of this thread out by name and he's the president. Duh. 

 

27 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Mass shooting - Gun control - Trump. Statements at a rally by Commander in Chief about the incident and the actions of the Deputy - Trump. One of the biggest crime issues facing the USA - Trump. Suggesting teachers should all be armed - Trump.

 

Why would we not bring the POTUS into this discussion?

And those desperate to blame trump for everything chime in....

 

Please make an attempt to remember that this thread is about an armed deputy who hid, whilst kids were being murdered.

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

And those desperate to blame trump for everything chime in....

 

Please make an attempt to remember that this thread is about an armed deputy who hid, whilst kids were being murdered.

That is extremely offensive.

I did not blame "trump" for the massacre and you know it.

I also question the fairness of making this one cop a SCAPEGOAT for the massacre as some people appear to be doing.

People that opposed to reasonable GUN CONTROL are looking for every excuse they can come up with to divert attention to tangential issues.

Every gun violence issue in any setting is going to have tangential issues.

But to common thread is -- GUNS.  

Edited February 24, 2018 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

And those desperate to blame trump for everything chime in....

 

Please make an attempt to remember that this thread is about an armed deputy who hid, whilst kids were being murdered.

In fairness, I think it should be pointed out that sheltering behind a vehicle while bullets are being fired is not "hiding", but normal procedure.

As to the deputy himself, the truth will out as to whether he was following orders, training and a predetermined plan, or if he was just seeking to save his own life while others were dying.

 

One thing is for certain, in every police station in the US and elsewhere, the deputy, and what he did or didn't do will be a hot topic of discussion and planning. I have no doubt the deputy will be in every training manual for police in the future. Fame indeed, but not of the good sort.

[Langsuan Man]

If the damn building was on fire would you apologists think that it was OK for the fireman to stand around and wait for the fire to extinguish itself

 

If crowd control (as some here have suggested) was the School Resources Officer primary job, then why in gods name was he armed  

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

If the damn building was on fire would you apologists think that it was OK for the fireman to stand around and wait for the fire to extinguish itself

 

If crowd control (as some here have suggested) was the School Resources Officer primary job, then why in gods name was he armed  

No doubt.

It appears he didn't have the right stuff but it's unknowable what would have happened if he did.

 

[poanoi]

On 2/23/2018 at 9:40 AM, Berkshire said:

Perhaps he should change his name, move to Pattaya, and tell everyone he's a Navy Seal who killed dozens "back in the day." 

 

believe it or not, i wasnt even born at viet nam war start, i met an american much younger than me talking bout his service time in 'nam'

[Srikcir]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

he was just seeking to save his own life while others were dying.

Asked what Mr Peterson should have done, Sheriff Israel said: "Went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43164634

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

the deputy will be in every training manual for police in the future

It's already in police training manuals to go in immediately to confront a school shooter.

Peterson will not be a role model of any kind.

[Jingthing]

There is an American expat saying in Mexico.

Crossing the border is when a private becomes a general ... 

[thaibeachlovers]

36 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Asked what Mr Peterson should have done, Sheriff Israel said: "Went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43164634

It's already in police training manuals to go in immediately to confront a school shooter.

Peterson will not be a role model of any kind.

Training manuals also use examples of what NOT to do. I never said he would be a role model.

 

I am well aware of what sheriff Israel said having seen him say it on tv. What we don't know yet is if he is "throwing him under the bus" ( to use an American expression ) to cover his own ass.

As to what instructions he was given by his boss prior to the incident, we do not yet know. None of us are psychic.

Edited February 24, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

32 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Asked what Mr Peterson should have done, Sheriff Israel said: "Went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer." http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43164634

It's already in police training manuals to go in immediately to confront a school shooter.

Peterson will not be a role model of any kind.

 

32 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

  39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

he was just seeking to save his own life while others were dying.

 

I actually said

or if he was just seeking to save his own life while others were dying.

 

By omitting the "or if" you changed the context. Please do not do change the context of my words

 

.Forum rules:

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

Edited February 24, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

If crowd control (as some here have suggested) was the School Resources Officer primary job, then why in gods name was he armed  

I am sure you will be saying the same thing soon about the role of the Math teacher or Music teacher. "If teaching Maths was the teachers primary job then why in Gods name was he armed".

 

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

If the damn building was on fire would you apologists think that it was OK for the fireman to stand around and wait for the fire to extinguish itself

Bad example. Firstly there are no apologists here, just some realists reminding the hang em high armchair warriors here that sad as it may be, you cannot predict how most people will react under extreme duress. The people here screaming he was paid to move in and kill (with no knowledge what he was facing) are most likely the types that would turn and run a mile themselves. The fireman analogy is nowhere near context and invalid.

 

I actually have no opinion one way or the other concerning the actions of the Deputy, he did what he did and must live with the way it turned out. 20/20 hindsight is not smart or clever. What I do have an opinion on is the smart ass hang em high comments from people on here who have no concept of what bravery and courage actually mean. If they did know the meaning of these things, they would know enough to be aware that making adverse and critical comment about the Deputy's actions is foolhardy.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

I actually said

By omitting the "or if" you changed the context. Please do not do change the context of my words

 

.Forum rules:

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

I do not believe I changed the context which was to respond to your supposition - there was no grounds to suppose as the deputy did not follow SOP. You established a straw man position based on a falsehood - perhaps unintentionally through lack of knowledge and I provided a correction.

That said, you avoided completely my response.

[nausea]

We can't all be heroes; although most of us think we are, till push comes to shove. And strangely enough,a hero can become a coward, and a coward a hero, in the heat of the moment. Would I have gone in if I'd been there ... who knows?

[FritsSikkink]

He is a coward, like a few others were too on the day:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sources-coral-springs-police-upset-at-some-broward-deputies-for-not-entering-school/ar-BBJvA3b?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

I do not believe I changed the context which was to respond to your supposition - there was no grounds to suppose as the deputy did not follow SOP. You established a straw man position based on a falsehood - perhaps unintentionally through lack of knowledge and I provided a correction.

That said, you avoided completely my response.

You don't know if he followed SOP or not, the only source for that is the sheriff, who has made some hindsight comments.

Was he informed of the 'SOP'?

[lannarebirth]

9 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I feel somewhat sorry for the armed deputy.  He was clearly in the wrong job, as he didn't have the courage to move forward and try to stop the massacre.

 

I also suspect that his 'resignation' is at least partly due to him feeling very ashamed.

 

I suspect his resignation is at least partly due to him knowing he has his time in to get his retirement benefits.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Boy, and the hits just keep coming... 

 

First the FBI and local law enforcement botched numerous flags/warnings that there was a problem with this kid, including that he could be a gun threat.

 

And now, we find the sole armed sheriff's deputy on duty at the school was on-scene within seconds after the shooting started, and then did nothing for the ensuing 4 minutes while presumably more and more people were being shot.

 

His job and duty there was to protect the students and staff at the school. And it would seem, he had the opportunity, but did precious little to fulfill his job and duty.

 

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Boy, and the hits just keep coming... 

 

First the FBI and local law enforcement botched numerous flags/warnings that there was a problem with this kid, including that he could be a gun threat.

 

And now, we find the sole armed sheriff's deputy on duty at the school was on-scene within seconds after the shooting started, and then did nothing for the ensuing 4 minutes while presumably more and more people were being shot.

 

His job and duty there was to protect the students and staff at the school. And it would seem, he had the opportunity, but did precious little to fulfill his job and duty.

 

You're omitting the other police officers who arrived on the scene and did nothing.

 

To me an indication SOP could be to wait for backup.

 

When I watch reality shows I see them entering a house where there is a suspect who might be armed in full swat gear and with overwhelming power, but here a sole deputy is expected to enter a building where he knows at least one perpetrator is using an automatic rifle, with just his handgun? Maybe he is not a hero, just a wise man.

[BobBKK]

On 2/23/2018 at 5:11 PM, impulse said:

 

We don't have a clue why he resigned.  It may have been a backroom deal to save his pension (and the Sheriff's job).  It may be because he was so traumatized by what happened.  It may be because his wife gave him an ultimatum when she realized that he could have been killed.  It may have been the trigger for him to start that landscaping business he's been dreaming about for the last 10 years.

 

He was suspended without pay. After a long career in senior roles I can assure you the 'without pay' bit is CRUCIAL. They will try and protect him (and the dept.) a bit, as he fell on his sword, by not releasing the video of him cowering with his gun behind a car as kids died.