Mont Clair Red WIne

[nanglong218]

Please, let's not fall out anyone. I would love to sit down and chat to any of you with a glass of wine which I find is a conversation enhancer.  Beer quenches thirst on a hot afternoon,  spirits are serious stuff which have a bad affect on my brain.  Wine carries you along at the right speed, you mellow gently.

The wine shelves in Oz and UK are heaving with good European and New World wines.  USA, SA,   EU, all enjoying the same.  Any hope for Thailand??

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

 

I quite like some of the cheap Gallo wines from the US, I've seen them for sale in Villa.

 

I have never really investigated any Gallo wines to see if they have fruit juice added, or have the words "fruit wine" on the back label, and this is probably due to the fact that many years ago they were about the cheapest and low quality wines one could buy – – not saying that this is the case these days.

Interestingly enough, I spied a new range in Big C and it appears to be a French wine, well labelled, without the words "fruit wine" anywhere, BUT in small print on the back label it says that the wine is infused with a small proportion of cranberry juice?? So in effect this does make it a "fruit wine", however not evident on the label, which is probably by design!

[xylophone]

10 hours ago, SkyRider said:

But I'll be looking for some good bottles, that are not too high in price for my budget. 

Look at some of the following wines, some of which are better than others, however one thing they have in common is that they come from the South of Australia in the Riverina and Riverland areas, not renowned for their fabulous wines, but for producing vast quantities of everyday swigging wine.

The cheapest would be the Tesco's range of "world of wines" Australian Shiraz or Cabernet Sauvignon coming in at around 349 baht in the bigger stores. Okay for spicy Thai food and Italian dishes in the main.

One step above these would be the likes of "Barwang the Wall" in several varieties and this does give you a better feel for the fruit, as it is more fruit driven. Others of similar ilk would be "Gossips" and "Rumours" and these all come in at under 500 baht. Again good for everyday drinking and can be paired with most things.

Here in Phuket we have a place called "Supercheap", which is exactly what it says and luckily enough they also sell wine which is normally 10% and more cheaper than that which is in stores.

Luckily enough I have a private distributor and can often choose some very fine wines to be had at at least 50% below retail price and I intersperse these good wines with the others so that I don't get spoilt!

As I said before, look around for bargains, because just a couple of years ago Tesco Lotus Extra had a big clear out of wines and I was able to buy some fabulous wines at about 25% of the retail price, including a wonderful Zinfandel, a Brunello di Montalcino and a Stellenbosch Shiraz, just to mention a few.

[theoldgit]

A friend of mine got some 8 litre boxes of Mont Clair red in Makro in Pattaya this morning, 1200 Baht each.
No white anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[xylophone]

On 01/03/2018 at 6:35 PM, xylophone said:

Interestingly enough, I spied a new range in Big C and it appears to be a French wine, well labelled, without the words "fruit wine" anywhere, BUT in small print on the back label it says that the wine is infused with a small proportion of cranberry juice?? So in effect this does make it a "fruit wine", however not evident on the label, which is probably by design!

Just had to buy it to try and it wasn't until I got it home that I saw the very small print on the back label..........."Red aromatized alcoholic beverage"!!

 

Although it doesn't appear to fall into the aromatized category (think Vermouth etc) literally, it does in the sense that it has "fruit aromas/flavouring" added to it, so a loose connection.

 

Anyway, no year on it so it was a blend of years; it was thin with no body or flavour and wouldn't buy it again.....ever!!

 

Even Montclair tastes better!!!!!!!!!!!!

[norrska]

On 3/1/2018 at 6:49 PM, xylophone said:

The cheapest would be the Tesco's range of "world of wines" Australian Shiraz or Cabernet Sauvignon coming in at around 349 baht in the bigger stores. Okay for spicy Thai food

Red wine and spicy food definitely do not match!

[xylophone]

47 minutes ago, norrska said:

Red wine and spicy food definitely do not match!

There is no problem drinking red wines with spicy food esp the lower alcohol and not-too-heavy reds. Been doing that pairing for 50 years or so......esp with curries!

 

Just a couple of quotes for you.............

 

............That said, you may be able to find reds that aren’t going to get in the way of a spicy dish—lighter-bodied, fruit-focused reds like Beaujolais, Grenache-based wines like Côtes du Rhône, or simpler versions of Merlot or Zinfandel. You can also try to focus on the dominant flavors of the dish. For example, if the dish has a smoky-spicy note, as with barbeque or chipotle peppers, you might want to try a smoky-spicy wine like Malbec or Tempranillo.

 

.............Match wines to spicy Asian dishes.

·         Avoid oaky and buttery whites, or neutral and dry whites for the most part.

·         Restaurant styles for Asian food include: Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, Gewurztraminer, Pinot Gris, Pinot Noir, Merlot, and Italian varietals (such as Barbera and Sangiovese).

 

Anyway, one is free to drink what one likes with any style of food!!

[norrska]

48 minutes ago, xylophone said:

There is no problem drinking red wines with spicy food esp the lower alcohol and not-too-heavy reds. Been doing that pairing for 50 years or so......esp with curries!

 

Just a couple of quotes for you.............

 

............That said, you may be able to find reds that aren’t going to get in the way of a spicy dish—lighter-bodied, fruit-focused reds like Beaujolais, Grenache-based wines like Côtes du Rhône, or simpler versions of Merlot or Zinfandel. You can also try to focus on the dominant flavors of the dish. For example, if the dish has a smoky-spicy note, as with barbeque or chipotle peppers, you might want to try a smoky-spicy wine like Malbec or Tempranillo.

 

.............Match wines to spicy Asian dishes.

·         Avoid oaky and buttery whites, or neutral and dry whites for the most part.

·         Restaurant styles for Asian food include: Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, Gewurztraminer, Pinot Gris, Pinot Noir, Merlot, and Italian varietals (such as Barbera and Sangiovese).

 

Anyway, one is free to drink what one likes with any style of food!!

That's just marketing hype from winemakers to sell more.  You cannot appreciate the subtleties of a fine wine when eating spicy food due to the taste buds and salivary glands being overstimulated.  This applies to Thai, Indian food and the rest.  Beer matches much better and also the gasiness from beer is much appreciated to help belching. 

[xylophone]

24 minutes ago, norrska said:

That's just marketing hype from winemakers to sell more.  You cannot appreciate the subtleties of a fine wine when eating spicy food due to the taste buds and salivary glands being overstimulated.  This applies to Thai, Indian food and the rest.  Beer matches much better and also the gasiness from beer is much appreciated to help belching. 

Sorry to have to tell you, but none of those comments came from winemakers!

And who said anything about "appreciating the subtleties of a fine wine"? I sure wouldn't drink a fine wine with a spicy meal, but I will drink a nice fruity young number, as has been suggested by my previous post.

Many chefs and restaurateurs will recommend these type of reds to go with their spicy food, and lighter style Rieslings and aromatics also. 

 

Another quote for you, this time from a restaurant critic in response to a question about a wine to pair with chilli con carne............

 

There are plenty of options, especially if you prefer red wines. Look for medium to full-bodied (but not too elegant) white, pink and red wines with ample fruit flavors, and moderate tannins. For red wines, consider Zinfandel, Malbec, Syrah,Tempranillo, Grenache, Carmenere or Rhone-style red blends.

 

Plenty for you to research on the Internet if you wish and no real need to keep on swapping posts on this.

 

PS. On the subject of fine wines, I always saved the fine red wines in my cellar for classic dishes, mostly French. Of many combinations I tried I was very pleasantly surprised when I was served a young Château Bel-Air at the Michelin starred restaurant attached to Château Lynch-Bages, paired with pâté de foie gras with a sweet sauce! Some unexpected matches do work!

Edited March 4, 2018 by xylophone

[norrska]

47 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Sorry to have to tell you, but none of those comments came from winemakers!

And who said anything about "appreciating the subtleties of a fine wine"? I sure wouldn't drink a fine wine with a spicy meal, but I will drink a nice fruity young number, as has been suggested by my previous post.

Many chefs and restaurateurs will recommend these type of reds to go with their spicy food, and lighter style Rieslings and aromatics also. 

 

Another quote for you, this time from a restaurant critic in response to a question about a wine to pair with chilli con carne............

 

There are plenty of options, especially if you prefer red wines. Look for medium to full-bodied (but not too elegant) white, pink and red wines with ample fruit flavors, and moderate tannins. For red wines, consider Zinfandel, Malbec, Syrah,Tempranillo, Grenache, Carmenere or Rhone-style red blends.

 

Plenty for you to research on the Internet if you wish and no real need to keep on swapping posts on this.

 

PS. On the subject of fine wines, I always saved the fine red wines in my cellar for classic dishes, mostly French. Of many combinations I tried I was very pleasantly surprised when I was served a young Château Bel-Air at the Michelin starred restaurant attached to Château Lynch-Bages, paired with pâté de foie gras with a sweet sauce! Some unexpected matches do work!

Sorry to have to tell you, but who do the chefs and restauranteurs  answer to....wait for it...... the producers!  Any chef or restauranteur who does not recommend to drink wine with a spicy dish would be blacklisted.  How many locals in India or Thailand have you ever seen drinking any wine with a spicy meal....the answer is none!  It is only the westerners! 

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, norrska said:

Sorry to have to tell you, but who do the chefs and restauranteurs  answer to....wait for it...... the producers!  Any chef or restauranteur who does not recommend to drink wine with a spicy dish would be blacklisted.  How many locals in India or Thailand have you ever seen drinking any wine with a spicy meal....the answer is none!  It is only the westerners! 

Well now that you have shown that you know very little to nothing about this, time to move on esp after you have read the quotes below.

 

The Chefs I know who own their own restaurants (and one who owns a chain of fine restaurants in NZ) are in no way beholden to the the producers!! In fact it is the producers who beat a path to their door trying to sell their products/wine!

 

The Executive Chef at a top Hotel here also has producers and distributors wanting him to include their wines on his menu. I have seen that first hand because I helped him to choose some wines to accompany his menu and put together his wine list.

 

As for your "blacklisted" nonsense, where on earth did you dream that up??

 

And I wasn't singling out any particular race, nor were the wine critics and wine/food reviewers I quoted. Also I have seen and entertained many Thais who drink red and white wine with Thai food.

 

Your views are farcical to say the least and bear no relation to reality OR to the wine and food experts who recommend red wines to drink with certain foods, including spicy ones.

 

Please, just visit the internet/see below before you dig a bigger hole for yourself.

 

And just to help you........

 

"There’s an interesting aside on that in Victoria Moore’s excellent new book The Wine Dine Dictionary, published this week, where she elicits from Indian sommelier Magandeep Singh the insight that since most of an Indian meal is based on carbs in the form of bread or rice, the impact of a spicy curry is diminished. Certainly I didn’t find the reds I tasted while I was away jarred with the food, which was frequently less fiery than it would have been in the UK.

Moore recommends mencia, carmenère and dão as good red options with tomato- and meat-based curries. Asda has a well-priced Dão in its Extra Special range (£5.78; 13% abv) that would do the job admirably. I’m also a fan of rioja and other Spanish tempranillo, such as Anda’s vibrant, juicy Tempranillo/Syrah 2015 , from Andalucía. Shiraz can be good, too".

 

"And, as I mentioned last year after Wines of India’s first ever wine-tasting, India itself produces some surprisingly decent reds, which is a bit of a miracle given the climate and the fact that the vines don’t shut down during the winter. (They have to discard one of their two annual harvests to get wines of any quality.) Two to look out for, especially in better Indian restaurants, are Sula’s Dindori Reserve Shiraz 2015 (£11.50 Novel Wines of Bath; 13.5% abv) and Fratelli’s classy Sette 2012 (£18.50 Wine Poole; 13.5% abv), a supertuscan-style sangiovese/cabernet blend that you could just as easily drink with an Italian roast as a raan or a rogan josh.

matchingfoodandwine.com 

 

AND quotes from famous Thai restaurants..........

.

* "Riesling is great with Thai food, particularly wines with a bit of sweetness. Although not all Riesling is sweet, when you eat something spicy and drink something with residual sugar, the sugar goes to the background and the fruit comes forward. At Kin Shop, we love to have people try it, especially if they don't like sweet wines, since it often changes their minds. Over the years, what I've found surprising is smooth, medium-full red wines are a great pairing for spicy dishes. We have a lovely merlot from Neyers that just is perfect with spicy meat dishes."—Alicia Nosenzo (Kin Shop, Perilla, The Marrow)

 

* Red wines get overlooked, but juicy red wines with soft (or no) tannins can be delicious with Thai food as well. Some that jump to mind: Beaujolais (I'm loving Jean Foillard's "Nouveau") American Grenache (Vallin Grenache, Tribute to Grace), and other light, aromatic red wines made from grapes such as Frappato, Gamay and Pineau d'Aunis. Poulsard and Trousseau are great, too. If you have not tried Arnot-Roberts' North Coast Trousseau, seek it out!"—Jordan Salcito (Momofuku)

 

 

[norrska]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Well now that you have shown that you know very little to nothing about this, time to move on esp after you have read the quotes below.

 

The Chefs I know who own their own restaurants (and one who owns a chain of fine restaurants in NZ) are in no way beholden to the the producers!! In fact it is the producers who beat a path to their door trying to sell their products/wine!

 

The Executive Chef at a top Hotel here also has producers and distributors wanting him to include their wines on his menu. I have seen that first hand because I helped him to choose some wines to accompany his menu and put together his wine list.

 

As for your "blacklisted" nonsense, where on earth did you dream that up??

 

And I wasn't singling out any particular race, nor were the wine critics and wine/food reviewers I quoted. Also I have seen and entertained many Thais who drink red and white wine with Thai food.

 

Your views are farcical to say the least and bear no relation to reality OR to the wine and food experts who recommend red wines to drink with certain foods, including spicy ones.

 

Please, just visit the internet/see below before you dig a bigger hole for yourself.

 

And just to help you........

 

"There’s an interesting aside on that in Victoria Moore’s excellent new book The Wine Dine Dictionary, published this week, where she elicits from Indian sommelier Magandeep Singh the insight that since most of an Indian meal is based on carbs in the form of bread or rice, the impact of a spicy curry is diminished. Certainly I didn’t find the reds I tasted while I was away jarred with the food, which was frequently less fiery than it would have been in the UK.

Moore recommends mencia, carmenère and dão as good red options with tomato- and meat-based curries. Asda has a well-priced Dão in its Extra Special range (£5.78; 13% abv) that would do the job admirably. I’m also a fan of rioja and other Spanish tempranillo, such as Anda’s vibrant, juicy Tempranillo/Syrah 2015 , from Andalucía. Shiraz can be good, too".

 

"And, as I mentioned last year after Wines of India’s first ever wine-tasting, India itself produces some surprisingly decent reds, which is a bit of a miracle given the climate and the fact that the vines don’t shut down during the winter. (They have to discard one of their two annual harvests to get wines of any quality.) Two to look out for, especially in better Indian restaurants, are Sula’s Dindori Reserve Shiraz 2015 (£11.50 Novel Wines of Bath; 13.5% abv) and Fratelli’s classy Sette 2012 (£18.50 Wine Poole; 13.5% abv), a supertuscan-style sangiovese/cabernet blend that you could just as easily drink with an Italian roast as a raan or a rogan josh.

matchingfoodandwine.com 

 

AND quotes from famous Thai restaurants..........

.

* "Riesling is great with Thai food, particularly wines with a bit of sweetness. Although not all Riesling is sweet, when you eat something spicy and drink something with residual sugar, the sugar goes to the background and the fruit comes forward. At Kin Shop, we love to have people try it, especially if they don't like sweet wines, since it often changes their minds. Over the years, what I've found surprising is smooth, medium-full red wines are a great pairing for spicy dishes. We have a lovely merlot from Neyers that just is perfect with spicy meat dishes."—Alicia Nosenzo (Kin Shop, Perilla, The Marrow)

 

* Red wines get overlooked, but juicy red wines with soft (or no) tannins can be delicious with Thai food as well. Some that jump to mind: Beaujolais (I'm loving Jean Foillard's "Nouveau") American Grenache (Vallin Grenache, Tribute to Grace), and other light, aromatic red wines made from grapes such as Frappato, Gamay and Pineau d'Aunis. Poulsard and Trousseau are great, too. If you have not tried Arnot-Roberts' North Coast Trousseau, seek it out!"—Jordan Salcito (Momofuku)

 

 

You obviously don't know what you are talking about at all.   I didn't know the food in NZ was spicy, but I would guess you are wrong on that one.  You clearly haven't spent alot of time visiting, observing or doing  research in areas where spicy food is eaten.  I never listed them all, but you could add Sizchuan Chinese, Sri Lankan and a few others.  I would even guess that you probably don't eat spicy food much.  I have never seen someone eat a bird chilli hors d'oeuvre with a glass of wine, but maybe you have.  Hey go one step further and tell me which wine to pair with a Naga Ghost chilli (guess you don't know that one either). All of the "experts" and journo-wine hacks you cite (who I have never heard of), are just trying to sell product, as restaurants get a higher margin on booze.  They are also trying to sell books and columns.  Maybe you didn't know that.  The rest of the wine commentary is just pretentious posturing.  I always plug my ears and walk away when opinionated people start bloviating such nonsense.  Anyway enjoy your fruit wine.  Maybe you can pair it with some wasabi?

Edited March 4, 2018 by norrska

[xylophone]

35 minutes ago, norrska said:

You obviously don't know what you are talking about at all.   I didn't know the food in NZ was spicy, but I would guess you are wrong on that one.  You clearly haven't spent alot of time visiting, observing or doing  research in areas where spicy food is eaten.  I never listed them all, but you could add Sizchuan Chinese, Sri Lankan and a few others.  I would even guess that you probably don't eat spicy food much.  I have never seen someone eat a bird chilli hors d'oeuvre with a glass of wine, but maybe you have.  Hey go one step further and tell me which wine to pair with a Naga Ghost chilli (guess you don't know that one either). All of the "experts" and journo-wine hacks you cite (who I have never heard of), are just trying to sell product, as restaurants get a higher margin on booze.  They are also trying to sell books and columns.  Maybe you didn't know that.  The rest of the wine commentary is just pretentious posturing.  I always plug my ears and walk away when opinionated people start bloviating such nonsense.  Anyway enjoy your fruit wine.  Maybe you can pair it with some wasabi?

It's quite obvious that you are talking a load of rubbish, so I will put you on the ignore button and won't see any more of your posts. Can't be bothered wasting my time with someone who is a sandwich short of a picnic. How on earth can you get so many things wrong in your last post post?? This is beyond belief, with so many misquotes and mistakes and assumptions.

So the restaurants I have quoted above which are Thai and Indian, for example, who recommend certain red wines with their food are also talking nonsense according to you? Get real.

You obviously don't read very well, so not much point in explaining a lot more, this especially when the Internet is absolutely full of matches between red wine and spicy food. Yes I will say that again, absolutely full of matches between red wine and spicy food, a few restaurants of which I mentioned, but you seem to overlook that

If you seem to think that chefs who own restaurants recommend a wine just for the margin, irrespective of how it might complement the food they serve – – you obviously don't know how their businesses are run.

 

Again I have to question your reading ability and understanding because I didn't mention spicy food in New Zealand, I spoke about producers, a subject you bought up you may recall   (but I doubt it). Also you may wish to visit New Zealand, of which I am a New Zealand citizen, and you will find many Indian, Thai and Chinese (Sichuan and others) restaurants and guess what, they serve red wine with their food!

I have been eating spicy food for 50 years in Indian, and other restaurants serving spicy food, in the UK, New Zealand, Fiji, New Caledonia, Noumea, Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Singapore, the USA, Australia, Trinidad & Tobago, North Africa, West Africa and Thailand to name but a few , some in France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and other places, but not that spicy. I also lived with a Chinese lady for many years and enjoyed her home cooked spicy food. In addition I have been living in Thailand for 11 years and cooking and eating Thai food, and spicy at that. I almost always use chillies in my cooking so I am well aware of how they taste

As for pretentious posturing, I think you must have a gold medal in that, because it's quite clear that you know absolutely nothing, but are posturing that you do.

As I said read and explore the Internet and see exactly that you are so very wrong.

I can explain it to you, but I can't help you to understand it.

So I will press the ignore button on all of your posts because I really don't want to hear comments from someone who is speaking out of their bottom orifice and is so terribly wrong in everything he posts on this subject.

And finally, if you have read any of my posts you will see that I don't really like fruit wine and I have invested in and collected fine wines from around the world for 45 years now, and have experienced that which you never could have judging by your posts.

 

Bye Bye......................

 

[SkyRider]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

It's quite obvious that you are talking a load of rubbish, so I will put you on the ignore button and won't see any more of your posts. Can't be bothered wasting my time with someone who is a sandwich short of a picnic. How on earth can you get so many things wrong in your last post post?? This is beyond belief, with so many misquotes and mistakes and assumptions.

So the restaurants I have quoted above which are Thai and Indian, for example, who recommend certain red wines with their food are also talking nonsense according to you? Get real.

You obviously don't read very well, so not much point in explaining a lot more, this especially when the Internet is absolutely full of matches between red wine and spicy food. Yes I will say that again, absolutely full of matches between red wine and spicy food, a few restaurants of which I mentioned, but you seem to overlook that

If you seem to think that chefs who own restaurants recommend a wine just for the margin, irrespective of how it might complement the food they serve – – you obviously don't know how their businesses are run.

 

Again I have to question your reading ability and understanding because I didn't mention spicy food in New Zealand, I spoke about producers, a subject you bought up you may recall   (but I doubt it). Also you may wish to visit New Zealand, of which I am a New Zealand citizen, and you will find many Indian, Thai and Chinese (Sichuan and others) restaurants and guess what, they serve red wine with their food!

I have been eating spicy food for 50 years in Indian, and other restaurants serving spicy food, in the UK, New Zealand, Fiji, New Caledonia, Noumea, Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Singapore, the USA, Australia, Trinidad & Tobago, North Africa, West Africa and Thailand to name but a few , some in France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and other places, but not that spicy. I also lived with a Chinese lady for many years and enjoyed her home cooked spicy food. In addition I have been living in Thailand for 11 years and cooking and eating Thai food, and spicy at that. I almost always use chillies in my cooking so I am well aware of how they taste

As for pretentious posturing, I think you must have a gold medal in that, because it's quite clear that you know absolutely nothing, but are posturing that you do.

As I said read and explore the Internet and see exactly that you are so very wrong.

I can explain it to you, but I can't help you to understand it.

So I will press the ignore button on all of your posts because I really don't want to hear comments from someone who is speaking out of their bottom orifice and is so terribly wrong in everything he posts on this subject.

And finally, if you have read any of my posts you will see that I don't really like fruit wine and I have invested in and collected fine wines from around the world for 45 years now, and have experienced that which you never could have judging by your posts.

 

Bye Bye......................

 

I very much appreciate your knowledge, and the information that you have given me on red wines xylophone.  

 

You said:  "Anyway, one is free to drink what one likes with any style of food!!"

 

I absolutely agree with that. 

At any restaurant, or at home, I have always chosen, the best red wine I could get at the time, or the wine that I was in the mood for at that time - with the dish that I was in the mood to eat.

 

I never thought it was a problem, trying to match wine, with food.  For me, good wine and good food, no matter what they are, including spicy foods, can always match well.  

Edited March 4, 2018 by SkyRider

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, SkyRider said:

I very much appreciate your knowledge, and the information that you have given me on red wines xylophone.  

 

You said:  "Anyway, one is free to drink what one likes with any style of food!!"

 

I absolutely agree with that. 

At any restaurant, or at home, I have always chosen, the best red wine I could get at the time, or the wine that I was in the mood for at that time - with the dish that I was in the mood to eat.

 

I never thought it was a problem, trying to match a wine, with a food.  For me, great wine and great food, no matter what they are, can always match well.  

Good point and I think that is something that some folks overlook.

 

I remember a top restaurant I was visiting serving salmon cooked with a port wine sauce!! A match I never imagined, but I tried it and it was surprisingly good!!

 

Anyway, worthwhile remembering that the OP who started all this said:......."Red wine and spicy food definitely do not match!", and he has been proven wrong by chefs, restaurateurs, food experts and critics alike, along with much more info on the internet. 

 

I guess he cannot take being wrong!

 

I have been drinking and collecting fine/good wines and eating in good/great restaurants around the world for 45 years, so I think I know my stuff.....and thanks for your kind words. Always keen to share knowledge when I can.

 

 

[mgthom63]

5 hours ago, xylophone said:

Good point and I think that is something that some folks overlook.

 

I remember a top restaurant I was visiting serving salmon cooked with a port wine sauce!! A match I never imagined, but I tried it and it was surprisingly good!!

 

Anyway, worthwhile remembering that the OP who started all this said:......."Red wine and spicy food definitely do not match!", and he has been proven wrong by chefs, restaurateurs, food experts and critics alike, along with much more info on the internet. 

 

I guess he cannot take being wrong!

 

I have been drinking and collecting fine/good wines and eating in good/great restaurants around the world for 45 years, so I think I know my stuff.....and thanks for your kind words. Always keen to share knowledge when I can.

 

 

Thanks for all the tips! 

For spicy Thai or Indian food, my go-to is an off-dry Riesling.  But I've tried light, low or no-tannin reds made from grapes such as Frappato and Pineau d'Aunis and found them a very pleasant pairing. 

Best to put odious and uneducated trolls on 'ignore'...these social misfits just want to argue and provoke, however uninformed they are on a given topic.  When they suggest that chefs and restaurateurs answer to (wine) producers or that red wine should never be paired with spicy food, we're clearly not dealing with someone who has a clue about either fine restaurants or wine...DFTT, as the acronym goes! 

Edited March 4, 2018 by mgthom63

[Jai Dee]

Members are reminded to keep flames and personal attacks on other members to themselves, and not air them publicly on this thread.

 

It would be a shame to have to close this topic due to petty bickering and flaming.

[xylophone]

6 hours ago, mgthom63 said:

For spicy Thai or Indian food, my go-to is an off-dry Riesling.  But I've tried light, low or no-tannin reds made from grapes such as Frappato and Pineau d'Aunis and found them a very pleasant pairing. 

Good suggestions and many food and wine aficionados do recommend Rieslings and the like with Thai and some spicy foods. In fact it is the "go to" suggestion for newbies looking for a match, but I like the fruity, young reds match and always have done.

 

As for your red wines, well I haven't seen any available here and to be truthful had never heard of Frappato (just goes to show that you never stop learning!) and the Pineau I tasted when touring the Loire with a wine merchant, but under the name of Chenin Noir I believe?

 

 

[mgthom63]

40 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Good suggestions and many food and wine aficionados do recommend Rieslings and the like with Thai and some spicy foods. In fact it is the "go to" suggestion for newbies looking for a match, but I like the fruity, young reds match and always have done.

 

As for your red wines, well I haven't seen any available here and to be truthful had never heard of Frappato (just goes to show that you never stop learning!) and the Pineau I tasted when touring the Loire with a wine merchant, but under the name of Chenin Noir I believe?

 

 

Yes, Pineau is also known as Chenin Noir...but increasingly harder to find nowadays as growers have replaced it with more 'commercial' variants.  Similarly, I'm finding Frappato harder to find...it's almost impossible to find in Thailand, but I did find a COS frappato at an Italian restaurant in Bangkok (Appia)...aside from there and Sicily, I've only tasted it in NYC and London.

Edited March 5, 2018 by mgthom63

[Jai Dee]

Several more thinly disguised troll comments and argumentative posts (and replies) have been removed from this thread.

 

Final Warning: the next one will earn yourself a posting rights suspension.

 

Members are entitled to air their opinions... that is what the prime function of a discussion forum is. However slagging off other members just because their opinions happen to differ from yours will not be tolerated.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, mgthom63 said:

Yes, Pineau is also known as Chenin Noir...but increasingly harder to find nowadays as growers have replaced it with more 'commercial' variants.  Similarly, I'm finding Frappato harder to find...it's almost impossible to find in Thailand, but I did find a COS frappato at an Italian restaurant in Bangkok (Appia)...aside from there and Sicily, I've only tasted it in NYC and London.

(I have re-posted below because they were deleted, but there is nothing contentious in it/them). 

I posted..............In the main, I think it's good that some of the "inferior" grape varieties are being replaced (and I use the word inferior carefully) but every now and then one finds a particular grape variety which is getting rarer and enjoys the wine it makes. Carignan would be such a grape for me because it grows profusely and can make thin insipid wines, however a couple of winemakers who specialise in it can make some very good stuff which tastes just a little different, and I also like a Chateauneuf du Pape when it is included in the mix.

Your reply..........Yes, I agree with you on the replacement of many grape varieties...for the most part I think it's a good thing, but I hate to see 'inferiors' totally wiped out.  For Carignan, my favorite is Rocco Rubia from Sardinia (but maybe that doesn't qualify as Carignan?).

 

Well I suppose it's lucky that some of them have not been wiped out, this especially as King Louis XIV decreed that all the gamay vines should be pulled up because the gamay grape made an inferior wine!!!

 

So Beaujolais would have never been made!! And it is one of the wines which has been recommended to accompany spicy food!

 

 

[mgthom63]

45 minutes ago, xylophone said:

(I have re-posted below because they were deleted, but there is nothing contentious in it/them). 

I posted..............In the main, I think it's good that some of the "inferior" grape varieties are being replaced (and I use the word inferior carefully) but every now and then one finds a particular grape variety which is getting rarer and enjoys the wine it makes. Carignan would be such a grape for me because it grows profusely and can make thin insipid wines, however a couple of winemakers who specialise in it can make some very good stuff which tastes just a little different, and I also like a Chateauneuf du Pape when it is included in the mix.

Your reply..........Yes, I agree with you on the replacement of many grape varieties...for the most part I think it's a good thing, but I hate to see 'inferiors' totally wiped out.  For Carignan, my favorite is Rocco Rubia from Sardinia (but maybe that doesn't qualify as Carignan?).

 

Well I suppose it's lucky that some of them have not been wiped out, this especially as King Louis XIV decreed that all the gamay vines should be pulled up because the gamay grape made an inferior wine!!!

 

So Beaujolais would have never been made!! And it is one of the wines which has been recommended to accompany spicy food!

 

 

As you're probably aware, King Louis XIV's decree was followed up by the EU more recently...they started an aggressive vine pull scheme where vineyard owners were offered subsidies in exchange for pulling up their vines...out of all the French varieties, I read that Carignan was the most affected.

 

Yes, I always try and get hold of a Beaujolais Nouveau each November/December when I go for my bi-weekly Thai meal!

 

Any French Carignan wines you'd recommend?  Nothing fancy, just something to go with a semi-spicy Thai dish (3 chilli's on my local Thai restaurants' 5-point scale!)...they have a BYOB policy with a nominal corkage charge, so I'm not restricted to their overpriced plonk!

Edited March 5, 2018 by mgthom63

[xylophone]

35 minutes ago, mgthom63 said:

As you're probably aware, King Louis XIV's decree was followed up by the EU more recently...they started an aggressive vine pull scheme where vineyard owners were offered subsidies in exchange for pulling up their vines...out of all the French varieties, I read that Carignan was the most affected.

 

Yes, I always try and get hold of a Beaujolais Nouveau each November/December when I go for my bi-weekly Thai meal!

 

Any French Carignan wines you'd recommend?  Nothing fancy, just something to go with a semi-spicy Thai dish (3 chilli's on my local Thai restaurants' 5-point scale!)...they have a BYOB policy with a nominal corkage charge, so I'm not restricted to their overpriced plonk!

Well that is the unusual but charming bottle shape and the wine was from Fitou, but not sure that this is it!! The major grape was Carignan, but it is often blended with others.

 

Anyway, not sure one could buy it in Thailand, but perhaps worth seeking it out? Good hunting!

[xylophone]

44 minutes ago, mgthom63 said:

As you're probably aware, King Louis XIV's decree was followed up by the EU more recently...they started an aggressive vine pull scheme where vineyard owners were offered subsidies in exchange for pulling up their vines...out of all the French varieties, I read that Carignan was the most affected.

Yes it was because many growers let it produce high yields of which it is very capable........problem being it then produced poor wine!

 

If I remember correctly the French Govt started that vine pull scheme as long ago as the 60s and 70s.

[mgthom63]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

Well that is the unusual but charming bottle shape and the wine was from Fitou, but not sure that this is it!! The major grape was Carignan, but it is often blended with others.

 

Anyway, not sure one could buy it in Thailand, but perhaps worth seeking it out? Good hunting!

Thanks xylophone!

 

I'm primarily based in the US nowadays but spend quite a lot of time in Europe and Asia...so one way or another, I'm sure I can source it somewhere.

 

Regards and thanks again for the reco

[xylophone]

2 minutes ago, mgthom63 said:

Thanks xylophone!

 

I'm primarily based in the US nowadays but spend quite a lot of time in Europe and Asia...so one way or another, I'm sure I can source it somewhere.

 

Regards and thanks again for the reco

Pleasure and would love to know what you think about it if you do find it............just one thing, often the wine can produce a slightly oxidised taste, so slight as to be interesting (has been described as a prune-like taste), but any more than that it becomes unpleasant and means a poorly made wine.

 

And the younger the better.

[xylophone]

6 hours ago, mgthom63 said:

Yes, I always try and get hold of a Beaujolais Nouveau each November/December when I go for my bi-weekly Thai meal!

Ah that brings back memories, especially as it is recommended by the owner of a chain of restaurants around the world. Can't remember the last time I tried a Beaujolais Nouveau.

 

Anyway for those people interested in recommendations in pairing red wine with Thai/spicy food, see below: –

 

A quote from chef and founder David Chang, of Momofuku restaurants who has restaurants in NYC, Sydney, Toronto and Washington, DC.

"Red wines get overlooked, but juicy red wines with soft (or no) tannins can be delicious with Thai food as well. Some that jump to mind: Beaujolais Nouveau……

 

"Even though you might think Thai food is too spicy and aromatic to pair with red wines, there are some combinations that can work beautifully. Lighter-bodied reds with upfront fruit characters and a more simple structure like Pinot Noir, Grenache-based blends with spicy raspberry characters, Merlot, Zinfandel (also known as Primitivo), Sangiovese all can work harmoniously with Thai food. Try to avoid wines with heavy oak treatment or firm tannins as they will taste out of balance and one-dimensional alongside the delicate or spicy flavours of Thai food". (Cellarmasters.com).

 

"With Thai or Indian or Szechuan or other highly seasoned, potentially spicy food, the key is low alcohol, low tannin if red, and a touch of sweetness if white, and in either case fruit-forward. Ultra-dry wine of any color fights with the sweet-sour-spicy-bitter factors in this kind of cooking; and those same dishes also magnify the alcoholic feel of any wine. Think Riesling or Chenin Blanc, but not rippingly dry versions of either."—Juliette Pope (Gramercy Tavern)

 

Article, “When Thai Meets Wine”

Cru Beaujolais from appellations such as Brouilly, Morgon and Moulin- a-Vent have more power than basic Beaujolais, with intense sweet cherry flavors balanced by perky acidity, and are user- friendly and benefit from being served slightly chilled. The Georges Duboeuf range is reliable and good value.

 

"You will find pinot noir is the most successful red variety to exploit. Its berry-fruit sweetness, soft tannins, silky mouth-feel and a warming spicy farewell achieve a synchronicity with the lurking heat of chilli and spices. I find the juicier, fleshier styles from Australia and New Zealand the most suitable, although I also enjoy experimenting with different Burgundy communes.

 

"And who said red wine does not go with fish? Lighter pinots, dunked in cold water just before serving to take the edge off, are remarkably harmonious with whole deep-fried fish marinated in spices and served with sweet chilli sauce; similarly, wok-seared prawns or crab that have substantial chilli, black pepper and garlic involved. Bindi Original Vineyard Pinot Noir from Victoria, Australia hits the spot. For pinot noir with more substance to go with red duck curry try Felton Road, from Central Otago, New Zealand".

 

"The spicy characters and sweet and sour raspberry flavors and juicy acidity found in grenache can also go well, in particular lighter, crunchy modern style Cotes du Rhone. For more robust dishes of pork, lamb or beef, a lighter style of shiraz from northern Rhone of France, New Zealand or cooler parts of Australia work well with their crunchy sweet-sour dark berry-fruits and spicy, white pepperiness. Try Craiglee Shiraz from Sunbury, Victoria, Australia.

 

Finally, many of the wines recommended here will be too expensive in Thailand, so look out for the lighter style fruity wines, and as I mentioned in a previous post the Vineyards collection from Tesco Lotus would fit the bill at 349 baht a bottle (it is not a fruit wine).......oh, and chill it slightly.

Edited March 5, 2018 by xylophone

[SkyRider]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Ah that brings back memories, especially as it is recommended by the owner of a chain of restaurants around the world. Can't remember the last time I tried a Beaujolais Nouveau.

 

Anyway for those people interested in recommendations in pairing red wine with Thai/spicy food, see below: –

 

A quote from chef and founder David Chang, of Momofuku restaurants who has restaurants in NYC, Sydney, Toronto and Washington, DC.

"Red wines get overlooked, but juicy red wines with soft (or no) tannins can be delicious with Thai food as well. Some that jump to mind: Beaujolais Nouveau……

 

"Even though you might think Thai food is too spicy and aromatic to pair with red wines, there are some combinations that can work beautifully. Lighter-bodied reds with upfront fruit characters and a more simple structure like Pinot Noir, Grenache-based blends with spicy raspberry characters, Merlot, Zinfandel (also known as Primitivo), Sangiovese all can work harmoniously with Thai food. Try to avoid wines with heavy oak treatment or firm tannins as they will taste out of balance and one-dimensional alongside the delicate or spicy flavours of Thai food". (Cellarmasters.com).

 

"With Thai or Indian or Szechuan or other highly seasoned, potentially spicy food, the key is low alcohol, low tannin if red, and a touch of sweetness if white, and in either case fruit-forward. Ultra-dry wine of any color fights with the sweet-sour-spicy-bitter factors in this kind of cooking; and those same dishes also magnify the alcoholic feel of any wine. Think Riesling or Chenin Blanc, but not rippingly dry versions of either."—Juliette Pope (Gramercy Tavern)

 

Article, “When Thai Meets Wine”

Cru Beaujolais from appellations such as Brouilly, Morgon and Moulin- a-Vent have more power than basic Beaujolais, with intense sweet cherry flavors balanced by perky acidity, and are user- friendly and benefit from being served slightly chilled. The Georges Duboeuf range is reliable and good value.

 

"You will find pinot noir is the most successful red variety to exploit. Its berry-fruit sweetness, soft tannins, silky mouth-feel and a warming spicy farewell achieve a synchronicity with the lurking heat of chilli and spices. I find the juicier, fleshier styles from Australia and New Zealand the most suitable, although I also enjoy experimenting with different Burgundy communes.

 

"And who said red wine does not go with fish? Lighter pinots, dunked in cold water just before serving to take the edge off, are remarkably harmonious with whole deep-fried fish marinated in spices and served with sweet chilli sauce; similarly, wok-seared prawns or crab that have substantial chilli, black pepper and garlic involved. Bindi Original Vineyard Pinot Noir from Victoria, Australia hits the spot. For pinot noir with more substance to go with red duck curry try Felton Road, from Central Otago, New Zealand".

 

"The spicy characters and sweet and sour raspberry flavors and juicy acidity found in grenache can also go well, in particular lighter, crunchy modern style Cotes du Rhone. For more robust dishes of pork, lamb or beef, a lighter style of shiraz from northern Rhone of France, New Zealand or cooler parts of Australia work well with their crunchy sweet-sour dark berry-fruits and spicy, white pepperiness. Try Craiglee Shiraz from Sunbury, Victoria, Australia.

 

Finally, many of the wines recommended here will be too expensive in Thailand, so look out for the lighter style fruity wines, and as I mentioned in a previous post the Vineyards collection from Tesco Lotus would fit the bill at 349 baht a bottle (it is not a fruit wine).......oh, and chill it slightly.

When I posted about not being able to find Mont Clair boxes of wine on the shelves anymore - I certainly didn't expect so many comments, and learn so much more about wine.  

 

I think it's largely, a matter of opinion - what wine taste good, what's the best matches for wine with food.

 

It seems that so many people, think that French bordeaux is the best wine.  

My ex, use to spend $150.00 a bottle for that.

For me, I was happy with a $30.00 bottle of California Cabernet Sauvignon, that tastes so much better to me.

 

Then I realized, I better start saving some money, shopped, and found, so many delicious bottles, of mostly Cabernet. but other wines too, Merlot, etc. for anywhere from $6.00 to $10.00 per bottle.  

 

Now here I am in Thailand, great loss of variety, and much higher costs, compared to the States, trying to find some lower priced, but good tasting wines, that fit my budget.  But it's been great, hearing all the advice, and recommendations, for wine in Thailand.  Thank you, for that. 

 

 

[sirocco]

Well, SkyRider, your subject, well innocuous, was a real tidal wave (or wine)
I was lucky to take courses in oenology, in NICE, with Franck Thomas, very famous sommelier in France and in the world.
A well of knowledge. An enchantment.
Good night.

[xylophone]

13 hours ago, SkyRider said:

It seems that so many people, think that French bordeaux is the best wine.  

My ex, use to spend $150.00 a bottle for that.

For me, I was happy with a $30.00 bottle of California Cabernet Sauvignon, that tastes so much better to me.

Certainly Bordeaux is amongst the highest priced wine in the world (along with some fine burgundies) and the better ones (the classed growths or "Cru's") are collectors dreams and can be a good investment.

 

However one of the problems with wine like that is that it is fairly tannic in its younger years and is aged in oak, neither of which would suit spicy food (as a general rule) and even the lesser Bordeaux wines show similar traits.

 

One of the reasons that New World wines such as those from the USA, Australia, Chile and so on have become so popular is because in the main they are well made wines, fruit forward/driven and not always spending any or much time in oak, so they can be paired with a huge range of foods, and are easy drinking

 

Unfortunately (IMO) some of the Australian winemakers decided to start producing hugely alcoholic wines with big tannins and I have tasted some at over 15% alcohol, and they are difficult to match with food. On the other hand Australia has a couple of regions which produce good everyday drinking wines at very reasonable prices (which I have mentioned previously) as well as other fine wines, many and varied.

I have liked the wines I have tasted from the USA and was fortunate enough to be given a case of Robert Mondavi 1984 Cabernet Sauvignon, which was delightful. Others have included Zinfandel from the Napa Valley, Syrah from Washington state and so on and other Cab Sauvignons which are well made and easy drinking.

 

These days it is easy to find some good and well made wines in the lower price bracket in most countries, especially those I have already mentioned, however not Thailand because of the exorbitant tax/duty.

 

There was another thread called Montclair wine and it ran for about 60 pages and there is a wealth of information, discussion, input from folks who know their wine and many recommendations on it. One very knowledgeable poster, Grant Smith has gone AWOL of late, however his job/business was importing wine (as well as writing about it) and he travelled to many countries around the world attending wine tastings.

 

That thread initially started because of the disgruntled folks like myself who railed against the fact that the wines produced by Siam winery here (Montclair et al) made no mention of the fact that fruit juice/fruit was added to the wine, apart from the fact you may well just spot the words fruit wine in small print, somewhere on the box/label, so they weren't being upfront about it. Whereas the boxed wines these days that come from Australia in the main, clearly state that the contents are a particular grape variety, blended with fruit juice.