Mont Clair Red WIne

[Banana7]

So what French wine do you recommend in Thailand that is low priced?

 

[KiChakayan]

9 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

So what French wine do you recommend in Thailand that is low priced?

 

None, as there is no such thing in Thailand. Unless you think 1000 to 1200 Bahts is low priced.

[xylophone]

22 minutes ago, sirocco said:

No wine can withstand long transport or disastrous storage.

Disastrous storage I totally agree with, because nothing spoils a wine quicker than temperature variations and heat and sun.

 

As regards long transport, well wine has been shipped around the world in refrigerated containers for as long as there have been refrigerated containers and I think they were around in the early 1900s or even earlier, although not that efficient until a little later.

 

My main concern with some wine that I have tasted here is that it may well have been sitting "on the dock" or in a normal warehouse whilst waiting for clearance, away from the chance of it being refrigerated/kept cool.

[xylophone]

29 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

So what French wine do you recommend in Thailand that is low priced?

 

Faugeres at 499 b a bottle; Cotes du Rhone at 580 b; Beaujolais Villages at 599 b; 

 

And you can get some everyday Bordeaux wines at around 600 b

 

However as many others have said, this is one hell of a price to pay for something that back in your own country you could get for just a few pounds or dollars – – it's the tax that ruins it, and just two days ago I was speaking to someone who works for a large wine retailer here and pondered just why the tax was so high, when the majority of the Thais will drink beer or their cheap spirits, so IMO there is no real wine market to protect.

 

His answer was that they are not interested in protecting their own wine market, but in ensuring that the powerful corporations here can go on churning out their rot-gut spirits and the beer without fear of any erosion from wines/competition.

[sirocco]

Agree with you for the chilled part, but it is very bad in road transport where the temperature is not respected example: refrigerated truck whose circuit breaks down. Nobody cares.
Then storage in large warehouses before distribution in stores where there, again, it is catastrophic.
If on the shelves, it is not mandatory to put the bottles down, (the wine is supposed to leave very quickly, as soon as it is exposed) it is essential in the warehouse.
Only this is not done and it is 25 °.
 

[janclaes47]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

Mont Clair, the cheap one, isn't wine. It is fruit wine.

 

Anything sold for less than 500 Bahts is unlikely to be wine. 

 

Don't worry they gonna get there.

 

I noticed today that Big C had a new lot of 3 liter Mont clair, they had removed all siam winery stuff a few weeks ago, and it was now priced at 999 Baht for 3 liter.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Don't worry they gonna get there.

 

I noticed today that Big C had a new lot of 3 liter Mont clair, they had removed all siam winery stuff a few weeks ago, and it was now priced at 999 Baht for 3 liter.

Montclair is from Siam Winery? Along with a few others.

[torrzent]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

just two days ago I was speaking to someone who works for a large wine retailer here and pondered just why the tax was so high, when the majority of the Thais will drink beer or their cheap spirits, so IMO there is no real wine market to protect.

 

His answer was that they are not interested in protecting their own wine market, but in ensuring that the powerful corporations here can go on churning out their rot-gut spirits and the beer without fear of any erosion from wines/competition.

That's just one guy's opinion and does not necessarily mean its true.  I hear lots of this in Thailand...."So and so said this" or "My Thai wife told me that", as though it is some kind of gospel truth.  It is one person's opinion, pure and simple.

[janclaes47]

44 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Montclair is from Siam Winery? Along with a few others.

Is that a surprise for you?

 

https://www.siamwinery.com/en/portfolio/world-of-wines

 

I didn't notice aqny of the other wines of their catalog back in stock

[The manic]

On 3/26/2018 at 6:56 PM, ukrules said:

It's worth noting that in Hua Hin the Songkran crazy lasts for only 1 day.

 

That's it - one day of water and it's all over until the next year.

Sure?  That sounds great.  I leave for 10 days usually. 

[KiChakayan]

11 hours ago, xylophone said:

Faugeres at 499 b a bottle; Cotes du Rhone at 580 b; Beaujolais Villages at 599 b; 

At this price level I'd rather buy new world wines like Wolf Blass Yellow label or Casillero del Diablo Cabernet Sauvignons. What you indicate here is rock bottom cheap in France, won't say crappy, but...

 

For whites I love New Zealand's Sauvignons Blanc (Haymaker, Skuttlebutt). I am not a Chardonnay guy. Nothing beats taking one or two of these to Fuji for pigging out with your lady(ies). They charge 250 corking though..

 

BTW, I'm French/Australian.

[xylophone]

11 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

Is that a surprise for you?

No, as have been railing against their poor product disclosure for years with many posts on various threads here and elsewhere............not over-enamoured with their tactics! 

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

At this price level I'd rather buy new world wines like Wolf Blass Yellow label or Casillero del Diablo Cabernet Sauvignons. What you indicate here is rock bottom cheap in France, won't say crappy, but...

 

For whites I love New Zealand's Sauvignons Blanc (Haymaker, Skuttlebutt). I am not a Chardonnay guy. Nothing beats taking one or two of these to Fuji for pigging out with your lady(ies). They charge 250 corking though..

 

BTW, I'm French/Australian.

Agree and that's why I buy mostly Oz or Chilean wines these days, but do get the occasional good French wine thru a distributor friend here (Ch de la Negly for example) and the same with an Oz wine or two (Two Hands Angels Share Shiraz).......at mates rates!

 

I rarely drink whites these days although had more than my fair share when living in NZ (I am a NZer) and visiting the vineyards and attending wine tastings. Also got tired of the heavily oaked Chardonnay style which was all the rage a few years ago, but didn't mind an unoaked one and there were some lovely lighter styles around.

 

Same with Sauv Blancs...........lighter with a delicate "riesling style" rather than the grassy ones. but as I said, don't drink them now!

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, torrzent said:

That's just one guy's opinion and does not necessarily mean its true.  I hear lots of this in Thailand...."So and so said this" or "My Thai wife told me that", as though it is some kind of gospel truth.  It is one person's opinion, pure and simple.

True but it does have something going for it....................

 

The guy is in the wine importing and distribution game so has some knowledge; it seems feasible; have seen similar comments published in LOS and so it would seem to make sense, along with the revenue gathering aspect.

 

Really can't see any other reason for it, so I'll settle for that now until something better comes along!!

[Henryford]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:28 PM, janclaes47 said:

 

Don't worry they gonna get there.

 

I noticed today that Big C had a new lot of 3 liter Mont clair, they had removed all siam winery stuff a few weeks ago, and it was now priced at 999 Baht for 3 liter.

Yes i noticed yesterday in Tesco the 5 litre box is now 1290, used to be 989, so a 30% increase !!

[xylophone]

39 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Yes i noticed yesterday in Tesco the 5 litre box is now 1290, used to be 989, so a 30% increase !!

I am not a fan of the stuff, but it still works out to between 194 to 250 baht a bottle (equivalent) so not unduly expensive if one wants to drink it............having said that, a 30% increase on anything is hefty!

 

I wonder what the Berri Estates red will be priced at........IMO the better of these "wines".

[sirocco]

Since I put on my bottles "Fleur de Galetis",
a big label with "wine of grapes"
I think it has the taste of wine and not that of alcoholic fruit juice.

[siamcrut]

Once I bought a 5 lt box Australian Chardonnay at Macro.

Back home when I opened it and had a glass,

I was surprised about the rich color of the wine. So I had a closer look at the package and found in small prints, that they also do add egg powder...

Never again!!

The country where I am from, you do get arrested if you do tamper wine like that.

Cheers,

[emoji481]

 

[xylophone]

17 minutes ago, siamcrut said:

Once I bought a 5 lt box Australian Chardonnay at Macro.

Back home when I opened it and had a glass,

I was surprised about the rich color of the wine. So I had a closer look at the package and found in small prints, that they also do add egg powder...

Never again!!

The country where I am from, you do get arrested if you do tamper wine like that.

Cheers,

 

Egg whites are often used to "fine" (clarify) the wine............to remove particles and to sometimes "soften" it.

 

Used worldwide along with other fining agents and has been for many years, even centuries.

[siamcrut]

Egg whites are often used to "fine" (clarify) the wine............to remove particles and to sometimes "soften" it.
 
Used worldwide along with other fining agents and has been for many years, even centuries.

Bolllocks!
No it’s not used worldwide!
Certainly not in Central Europe.
and it’s not the egg white what they use to color the „wine“ it’s the yoke.

[mgthom63]

46 minutes ago, siamcrut said:

 

Bolllocks!
No it’s not used worldwide!
Certainly not in Central Europe.
and it’s not the egg white what they use to color the „wine“ it’s the yoke.

 

Not <deleted>!  Adding a solution of egg whites to wine does a nice job of pulling out excess tannins and phenolics that might cause wine to be overly astringent and/or bitter. Traditionally used in Burgundy as a way to “smooth out” the rough edges, egg white fining has a big fan club around the globe because it’s an all-natural, minimally-interventionist way to polish up red or white wine before bottling (though recent labeling law changes in Europe is encouraging a shift to non-animal based fining agents, since some people [like yourself] are shocked to find out that an animal-based product has been used in the manufacture of their wine).

Fining with egg whites has a long tradition in European wines, especially in the Bordeaux. 

Xylophone wasn't talking about color...he was talking about fining the wine.  The egg powder you came across in your Chardonnay was for fining, not color.

Edited April 6, 2018 by mgthom63

[mgthom63]

P.S. I'd be more concerned if you see the word 'isinglass' on your next box of Chardonnay.  It's a fining agent derived from the swim bladders of fish, originally sturgeons :)  And if you drink cask-conditioned ale in the UK, there's a high probability that isinglass has been used!

Edited April 6, 2018 by mgthom63

[eezergood]

1 hour ago, mgthom63 said:

P.S. I'd be more concerned if you see the word 'isinglass' on your next box of Chardonnay.  It's a fining agent derived from the swim bladders of fish, originally sturgeons :)  And if you drink cask-conditioned ale in the UK, there's a high probability that isinglass has been used!

all sturgeon are property of the Queen, if its good enough for her then I shall drink to that! 

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, mgthom63 said:

Not <deleted>!  Adding a solution of egg whites to wine does a nice job of pulling out excess tannins and phenolics that might cause wine to be overly astringent and/or bitter. Traditionally used in Burgundy as a way to “smooth out” the rough edges, egg white fining has a big fan club around the globe because it’s an all-natural, minimally-interventionist way to polish up red or white wine before bottling (though recent labeling law changes in Europe is encouraging a shift to non-animal based fining agents, since some people [like yourself] are shocked to find out that an animal-based product has been used in the manufacture of their wine).

Fining with egg whites has a long tradition in European wines, especially in the Bordeaux. 

Xylophone wasn't talking about color...he was talking about fining the wine.  The egg powder you came across in your Chardonnay was for fining, not color.

Thanks mgthom63, and I've no idea why people need to swear about a particular topic (and indicate that the poster knows nothing about it), especially when they appear to know very little about it themselves.

 

As you said, fining with egg whites has been a long tradition in winemaking and other fining agents, including issinglass (fish bladders), such as bentonite (a type of clay), milk, silica and kaolin have also been used over the centuries. Better this than the fining agent used in times long gone by, which was dried blood powder!

 

As for the colour of the Chardonnay bought by the OP, if it was quite a "dark" yellow, then it was quite possible to have been treated with oak, although this is not usual for a cheap wine, or had another grape variety added to it (which is allowable in Australia up to about 20% of the prime grape, often Semillon or can even be the Thompsons seedless grape), however I would suggest that if it was quite a deep colour and the taste was a little "suspect" then the wine could have been "cooked" in transit..........although I've only found a couple of wines like this here, I did taste a cask of supposedly Chilean wine which was totally undrinkable, due to, in my opinion, being "cooked".

 

Finally, and as I think you mentioned in a previous post, some countries are now moving away from "animal products" for fining purposes, however others are stipulating that the contents and the fining agents and whatever else is used, have to be listed on the back label.

 

PS. If it was cask wine then it is also poss that whatever "fruit juice" was added to it contributed to the colour.

Edited April 6, 2018 by xylophone

[mgthom63]

49 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Thanks mgthom63, and I've no idea why people need to swear about a particular topic (and indicate that the poster knows nothing about it), especially when they appear to know very little about it themselves.

 

 

Yep, you'd think some folks would do a little research before displaying their ignorance.  I'm ok with people making mistakes and/or being uninformed, but when they choose to insult posters with words like 'Bolllocks', I get irritated!  Rant over...I need to go down to my cave a vins and add some egg yolks to my Chardonnay to improve the colour :)

Edited April 6, 2018 by mgthom63

[mgthom63]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

Finally, and as I think you mentioned in a previous post, some countries are now moving away from "animal products" for fining purposes, however others are stipulating that the contents and the fining agents and whatever else is used, have to be listed on the back label.

 

 

Just out of interest Xylophone (or anyone else), do you think that wines that have replaced animal-based fining products are in any way compromised or changed, in terms of taste?  Discerning a difference is way beyond my level of wine expertise and palate, but curious to hear what you think...

As an aside, I'm so glad dried blood powder is no longer used.  It's totally psychological (since I'm a total carnivore) but I have an aversion to animal blood...I've never been able to even try black pudding and always have my steak cooked medium-well done!

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by mgthom63

[mgthom63]

11 hours ago, siamcrut said:

and it’s not the egg white what they use to color the „wine“ it’s the yoke.

 

@siamcrut  I've given you my perspective on the prevalence of egg whites as fining agents for wine, so I won't flog a dead horse on that one.

 

But, just out of interest, why do you also claim that the egg yolk/yoke is used to color the wine? 

 

I've never heard of this...can you elaborate and/or give me a link that supports this?  I've read that isinglass intensifies the yellow colour of white wine and agents such as casein clarifies it, but have never come across the use of egg yolks to color the wine.

 

As one of my previous posts indicates, I'm a little bit skeptical about this 'egg yolk as color' claim.  But, in hindsight, I wanted to play fair and give you the opportunity to respond...it was wrong of me to dismiss your claim so quickly and I apologize for that.  

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by mgthom63

[topt]

For those interested a very straightforward and short article re additives in wine - no. 5 for fining and clarification - http://winefolly.com/review/wine-additives/

Or a little more technical - http://winefolly.com/review/wine-additives-explained/

 

10 hours ago, mgthom63 said:

I've never heard of this...can you elaborate and/or give me a link that supports this? 

 

10 hours ago, mgthom63 said:

As one of my previous posts indicates, I'm a little bit skeptical about this 'egg yolk as color' claim.

I think you have every right to be sceptical. I have also never heard this and after some searching cannot find any trace of any link that suggests it and in fact the opposite. Several comments suggest that where egg whites are/were used there were a lot of yolks left over for the baking businesses around........

[sirocco]

Hello,

Exactly, if there is a lot of information for sticking the wine with egg white (hey! Hey! I had seen him do at my grandparents' house,
  but I did not know why) no information on the yolk used in pastry, more precisely for the fluted Bordeaux.

[xylophone]

13 hours ago, mgthom63 said:

Just out of interest Xylophone (or anyone else), do you think that wines that have replaced animal-based fining products are in any way compromised or changed, in terms of taste?  Discerning a difference is way beyond my level of wine expertise and palate, but curious to hear what you think...

Hmm....... a good, but difficult question and for a start I have to say that discerning a difference would also be beyond my level of wine expertise, however I will add that maybe it is beyond most people's expertise because IMO there is very little, if any in the way of change of taste?

 

Not only that I think that wines have changed over the years, as have tastes as we get older. For example the first half of my life living in the UK I got to know and like French wines, although there was a lot of "rubbish" being shipped to the UK in the late 60s, because the market seemed to be ever expanding.

 

So being brought up on the cheap stuff actually made one appreciate the better stuff a lot more! Not only that I am a firm believer that the taste of that wine changed for another reason and that is the "adulteration" of some wines by the addition of other wines from the likes of the Southern Rhône, North Africa and even Italy in order to give poor harvests/wines in the likes of Burgundy, a bit of backbone.

 

Now this is something which has been firmly denied by the French, however if you look back at publications around that time (and just after) you will see it is mentioned on many occasions. So my appreciation of wines, especially the better ones, was obviously for those of the likes of some Burgundies, to be a little more "full-bodied" if you like. Bottom line here, my impression of wines in those days was possibly "skewed".

 

Then of course you have the emergence of the wines from the likes of Australia, and I sampled more of those when I moved to New Zealand halfway through my life, and these were more full-bodied, fruit driven and a totally different style of wine than I was used to in the UK.

 

So you can see I've been subjected to different styles of wine over different time periods, and as for the methods of fining wines, was probably not aware of any changes although I have to say that the Australian wine industry, once it got up and running at full speed, really did take the world by storm and some of these winemakers are still using the old methods although they have to disclose this on the back label of their bottles (casks).

 

Australia has been/is a breeding ground for new techniques as witnessed by the different varieties and styles of wine, and even some of the grape varieties they have planted, so again that tends to "overshadow" any differences that just may have been brought about by different methods of fining wines.

 

Sorry, that's the best I can do!