Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[CG1 Blue]

23 minutes ago, tebee said:

You are of course, assuming that we manage to get point of having a negotiated deal  to put before the electorate before the expiration of the article 50 notification. With the current disorganized shambles in Whitehall that is by no means  certain - so option A may be a choice between  no deal or no deal.

 

 

But then the options would be:

 

- Leave with no deal

- Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU

 

And again this gives the EU every reason to block all attempts to achieve a good deal.

 

This is hopefully explaining why I don't think ref2 is a good idea.

 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I believe it would require leaving, not only the EU, but also NATO.

In for a penny in for a pound, we're British, who needs NATO, UNO, IMF ,EU to hell with them all, the Queen and the Commonwealth are our safe haven ?

[owl sees all]

31 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

those gunboats look mean. All they have to do is blow up the new electricity station, end off.

I guess you refer to the electricity station serving the Island!

 

Well if you are I have just two things to say;

 

01 Solar panels

02 Strong currents in those parts.

[metisdead]

Some insulting and inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

Some off topic posts have been removed. 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I have a question for those who want a 2nd referendum. I'm sure this has been done before, but here goes.

What two choices would you like to see on the ballot paper?

 

Option A

- Accept the deal that has been negotiated

- Leave the EU with no deal

 

Option B

- Accept the deal that has been negotiated

- Revoke article 50, and remain in the EU

 

I assume all Remainers would choose option B for the 2nd ref paper.  With option B the EU will offer the UK the worst deal possible. So option B would be a sure fire win for Remain. In other words, it would be a reversal of Brexit by stealth. Hoodwinking the British public.

 

Can any remainers refute this, with an explanation?

 

P.S. I think the same would apply if MPs got their 'meaningful vote'

 

I could deal with more two choices if I get an early night!

[billd766]

2 hours ago, adammike said:

As Gibraltar is attached to Spain I don't know what he thinks blockading the straits will achieve.If and when brexit happens the Spanish might just walk in and take over.

 

So you believe that Spain and by extension the EU will declare war on the UK, who by the way is a member of NATO, who in turn are obliged by the NATO treaty to assist a fellow NATO country if it is attacked.

 

BTW, Spain is also a member of NATO.

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/su/natohq/nato_countries.htm

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I believe it would require leaving, not only the EU, but also NATO.

 

Why would the UK be required to leave NATO of which it was a founding member.

 

 It is just your belief. 

 

You do come up with some strange ideas and beliefs.

 

Please explain why YOU believe that.

[Scott]

Per request of several members and by personal observation, it would appear that this thread has moved away from a reasonable discussion.

 

//CLOSED//

[Scott]

You can hit all the emoji's you want, but it won't be re-opened unless those of you that unhappy with it's closure can write and explain why it should be.

 

It is not OK to simply harass other members.   Discussion, debate, even disagreeing is OK, but personal remarks directed at others are not.  

 

Moderators are here to moderate, not to babysit.

 

[Scott]

Per request of members, this thread will be re-opened.   Please keep it civil.  

[oldlakey]

8 minutes ago, Scott said:

Per request of members, this thread will be re-opened.   Please keep it civil.  

This thread has got more lives than a cat

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

This thread has got more lives than a cat

... and at times has been like a bagful of cats, all fighting.

 

[oldlakey]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

... and at times has been like a bagful of cats, all fighting.

 

OK seconds out, but nothing below the belt please

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

This thread has got more lives than a cat

Nein.

[oldlakey]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Nein.

A way to go yet then

[billd766]

17 minutes ago, Scott said:

Per request of members, this thread will be re-opened.   Please keep it civil.  

 

Most of us do.

[ivor bigun]

Per request of members, this thread will be re-opened.   Please keep it civil.  

Please.please close it.Sick of all the moaning whether we like it or not Brexit will go ahead.so please lets let it rest.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tebee]

24 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Please.please close it.Sick of all the moaning whether we like it or not Brexit will go ahead.so please lets let it rest.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Oh no it won't....

[tebee]

The EU, at least, is starting to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0e64fdf8-6f8d-11e8-92d3-6c13e5c92914

[Scott]

For those of you who aren't interested, please 'unfollow' the topic and you won't receive notifications.   There is a drop down menu and you can chose to have no notifications.  

 

 

[tebee]

‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ was never a credible #Brexit negotiating position. Lamenting that the Government isn’t preparing for no deal is a red herring. (Plus it doesn’t have the £, time, capacity or ‘tech’ to do it.)

 

 

[The Renegade]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

No deal is better than a bad deal’ was never a credible #Brexit negotiating position.

tebee, 

 

If you took your blinkers off and looked around you, you will see that the EU is up to it's neck in problems that make Brexit look tame.

 

Quote

ECB pulls plug on eurozone stimulus – What does it mean?

http://www.dw.com/en/ecb-pulls-plug-on-eurozone-stimulus-what-does-it-mean/a-44175645

 

Big problem for all the debt laden EZ Countries.

 

Quote

Dutch PM doubles down on smaller budget, stricter EU rules

https://www.politico.eu/article/mark-rutte-dutch-prime-minister-european-parliament-speech-future-of-europe-smaller-budget-stricter-eu-rules/

 

Quote

Italy to block EU-Canada trade deal

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/italy-to-block-eu-canada-trade-deal-3hdh2w3td

 

Quote

Angela Merkel was forced yesterday to concede tougher controls on migrants but her retreat wasn’t enough to placate hardliners in her own camp, setting the stage for a showdown that could unravel the German coalition.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/wounded-angela-merkel-backtracks-in-migrant-crisis-vtnmg9r9r

 

A small sample of EU news from Yesterday. There are many others if you take the time to look and take off the I love the EU rose tinted windows.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

I am glad this topic is open again, because there are related issues happening all the time that add fuel to the debate; I hope that the posters who wrote to the moderators asking for the topic to be closed, now unfollow the topic, nobody has a gun pointed at them to follow or comment on any topic on TVF. If it discombobulates you in any way, simply unfollow it. ??  ??  ✌️✌️ 

[transam]

34 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I am glad this topic is open again, because there are related issues happening all the time that add fuel to the debate; I hope that the posters who wrote to the moderators asking for the topic to be closed, now unfollow the topic, nobody has a gun pointed at them to follow or comment on any topic on TVF. If it discombobulates you in any way, simply unfollow it. ??  ??  ✌️✌️ 

Well I wasn't one of the ?.....

[tebee]

Another of my occasional questions for the leaver amongst you.

 

After the debate on the Lords amendments the other day, Theresa May was reported as saying she will deliver the Brexit the British people voted for, no matter how much damage it does to British business, the economy and jobs.

 

Does this seem a reasonable policy to you and one you could support?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

 

 

Merkel on the brink - As the EU confronts a much bigger problem than Brexit

 

Merkel’s coalition government was formed on very tenuous foundations, which are now starting to shake, as Germany moves slowly but inexorably to the right, as a direct result of her much discussed immigration policy. The Germany people and a lot of their politicians, buoyed by events elsewhere in the EU, are finally waking up to the folly of her policies

 

From an article in the Times Online overnight

 

**** Angela Merkel was forced yesterday to concede tougher controls on migrants but her retreat wasn’t enough to placate hardliners in her own camp, setting the stage for a showdown that could unravel the German coalition.

 

Horst Seehofer, the interior minister from Bavaria, is threatening to defy her by introducing border controls for asylum seekers next week. That would almost certainly lead to his being sacked and the government collapsing.

 

The rift with her coalition allies from the Christian Social Union (CSU), the main conservative party of Bavaria, is the worst Mrs Merkel has faced. The chancellor, 63, was forced to agree to push at an EU summit later this month for powers proposed by Mr Seehofer, head of the CSU, to reject some asylum seekers at the German border.

Her concession was rejected, however, with some conservatives and German media warning that she could face a vote of confidence if agreement could not be found.

The CSU called for immediate action as they sensed wider support from backbenchers in Mrs Merkel’s own Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party.

 

Mr Seehofer, 68, has demanded as part of a new “migration masterplan” that German border police be given the right to turn back all asylum seekers without identity papers, those who are already registered elsewhere in the EU and those who have previously been refused refugee status ****

 

To paraphrase a few lines from a Steely Dan song

 

“Like a castle in it's corner

In a medieval game

She foresees terrible trouble

But she stays there, just the same”

[transam]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

Another of my occasional questions for the leaver amongst you.

 

After the debate on the Lords amendments the other day, Theresa May was reported as saying she will deliver the Brexit the British people voted for, no matter how much damage it does to British business, the economy and jobs.

 

Does this seem a reasonable policy to you and one you could support?

I haven't read that but I can assure you that similar stuff was said/thought when we crossed the channel in 1939. Did we bounce back..?

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

Theresa May was reported as saying she will deliver the Brexit the British people voted for, no matter how much damage it does to British business, the economy and jobs.

1. I had not heard this supposed remark, and an internet search turned up no results. So please verify with something that we can actually read. Otherwise, it is nothing more than hearsay.

 

2. Theresa May is the PM of the UK. A Referendum was held and the people voted to leave. That is what will happen.

 

Any damage to British business, the economy or jobs will not become apparent until the UK actually leaves the EU and an interim period elapses,  ( 10 years ? A Generation ? ) before any effects, good or bad can be properly ascertained.

 

So you probably have a minimum of 10 years to peek out from your safe space before you need to start worrying about the effects of Brexit.

[The Renegade]

9 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Mr Seehofer, 68, has demanded as part of a new “migration masterplan” that German border police be given the right to turn back all asylum seekers without identity papers, those who are already registered elsewhere in the EU and those who have previously been refused refugee status ****

Not sure why he is demanding this.

 

It should have automatically been mandatory.

 

It also destroys the myth that ALL Asylum Seekers are properly vetted. How can you vet someone with no papers ??

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Not sure why he is demanding this.

 

It should have automatically been mandatory.

 

It also destroys the myth that ALL Asylum Seekers are properly vetted. How can you vet someone with no papers ??

Absolutely, German border police have been letting in asylum seekers that have previously registered in another EU country, ones that have been refused refugee status, and 13 year old boys with no papers but 30 year old teeth ….. *****g madness