Is 'Dek Dee' at the root of Thailand's problems?

[soistalker]

1 hour ago, Cranky said:

What a nonsense comment.  Total lack of intelligence and common sense is a direct result of environment.  Take any new-born out of a poverty stricken area and place in to a decent educational system and see what happens.

 

 

You don't know what you are talking about. There are many reports which show that intelligence is mostly a matter of genetics, with environment playing a role, but far less. I suggest you google to educate yourself.

[Chongalulu]

24 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

They're probably really jealous of countries that were well and truly colonized and plundered like Zimbabwe, Angola, Pakistan, South Africa, Cambodia & Laos, The Philippines, Myanmar, India, etc 

African countries had infrastructure,functioning economies and good governance set up under colonialism. It was only the incompetence and corruption under black rule that trashed all that. Googling average IQ in sub Saharan Africa (under 70) explains most of that. You also need to understand assortative mating to explain the genetics involved in inherited intelligence. 

[Suradit69]

40 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

Critical thinking is a huge thing. Being allowed to have an open opinion, questioning things and learning about worldwide issues is something sorely lost in normal education here. 

And yet when it comes to educational results, those countries most noted for ecouraging free thinking seem to be notably absent in the areas of science and maths and those countries that continue to dominate tend to have regimented learning by rote and teacher centered, curriculum centered instruction.

 

 

Quote

 

 Josie Gurney-Read, online education editor 
29 NOVEMBER 2016 • 4:21PM
Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, Chinese Taipei, and Japan continue to dominate international rankings for maths and science, the latest league tables have revealed.

The Trends in International Maths and Science Study (TIMSS)  released today, shows East Asian countries maintaining their 20 year lead for pupils aged 10 and 14.

Published by the  International Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement (IEA), the study is the longest running, large scale international assessment of mathematics and science education in the world

 

 

 

And more generally western education systems produce mediocre results compared to countries with more rigid approaches to education.

 

Quote

 

The UK is still lagging behind leading countries at education and has made little progress in international rankings since results three years ago.

The influential Pisa rankings, run by the OECD, are based on tests taken by 15-year-olds in over 70 countries.

The UK is behind top performers such as Singapore and Finland, but also trails Vietnam, Poland and Estonia.

The OECD's education director, Andreas Schleicher, describes the UK's results as "flat in a changing world".

In maths, the UK is ranked 27th, slipping down a place from three years ago, the lowest since it began participating in the Pisa tests in 2000
In reading, the UK is ranked 22nd, up from 23rd, having fallen out of the top 20 in 2006

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-38157811

 

Quote

One of the biggest cross-national tests is the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), which every three years measures reading ability, math and science literacy and other key skills among 15-year-olds in dozens of developed and developing countries. The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

 

[CGW]

35 minutes ago, Xaos said:

Society is by design.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

Ain't that the truth! not many realise it though!

[Cranky]

16 minutes ago, soistalker said:

You don't know what you are talking about. There are many reports which show that intelligence is mostly a matter of genetics, with environment playing a role, but far less. I suggest you google to educate yourself.

Ball Hooks.  You are implying all Thais are thick by birth which is no more than a bunch of bigoted racist rambling.  The system is flawed not the kids.

[CGW]

1 minute ago, Cranky said:

Ball Hooks.  You are implying all Thais are thick by birth which is no more than a bunch of bigoted racist rambling.  The system is flawed not the kids.

Agree 100%! I have met and worked with many Thai people with an "education" they are on a par with any westerner.

The fact that most education is just indoctrination remains, but the level of indoctrination in Thai education is shocking!

[BobbyL]

2 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

And yet when it comes to educational results, those countries most noted for ecouraging free thinking seem to be notably absent in the areas of science and maths and those countries that continue to dominate tend to have regimented learning by rote and teacher centered, curriculum centered instruction.

 

 

 

 

And more generally western education systems produce mediocre results compared to countries with more rigid approaches to education.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-38157811

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

 

Good info.

 

I wouldn't say it is solely all about the education and learning achievements. It is also very important about the whole child coming out of that style of education.

[RichardColeman]

 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by RichardColeman

[MaiChai]

Its the ability to question and reason that makes clever people. Thais are discouraged to do this via the education system. All people are not the same; some people will figure it out themselves and become creative thinkers and problem solvers. Its too easily to generalise. Like anywhere else, there are clever Thais, and its insulting to paint them all the same.

[Bob12345]

2 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

...

 

Yes, we all know that math and science on a young age has a lot to do with critical thinking... (sarcasm)

 

They excel at an early age because especially maths and science is "following rules". 

 

Without looking it up, do you think its asians or westerners leading in research, patents, inventions, and creating companies finding innovative solutions?

[hanuman2543]

3 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Interesting, In the USA, the Jewish race has the highest IQ, followed by Asians. 

Jews are not a race. They are members of the Jewish religion. 

[agudbuk]

Jews are not a race. They are members of the Jewish religion. 

Most followers of the Jewish religion are also Jewish by race being descended from the same ancestor (Abraham).
For information Mohammed was also Jewish as he was also a descendant of Abraham.

[djayz]

8 hours ago, soistalker said:

There is only so much you can do with a low IQ population.

Even buffaloes can be trained... 

[ozmeldo]

Despite having to check in every 90 days and obtain a visa (extension) annually, I think Thailand is still more free at an individual level than western countries.

 

I'm happy to be living and working here. I teach the best and brightest and I'd challenge all of you to do their math or obtain same SAT scores, do their science learn a third language a few hours a week in three years. Many of my students complete internationally - and win so all you losers can seriously go blow yourselves.

 

Thailand falls short in areas that are going to become extremely important in the near future, 21st century skills. They always pull up short compared to the west, but life goes on. Thailand has done a good job shielding itself thus far from the vagaries of the outside world. It may continue to do so.

 

As for intelligence, the Thai are just as smart and capable, they just need the intellectual tools.

 

The culture is lovely and in this modern age of cultural vomit and chaos I rather like traditions being maintained. I like the politeness, the pretty and charming girls, women in dresses and makeup. I love loy kratong. The food is amazing, even after decades. It is by far the hippest Asian culture outside Japan.

 

People get up for elders, pregnant women and kids on transport. People help others in need. The longer I'm here the more, not less I respect thainess.

 

Yeah, the oligarchy and current political climate sucks. But this entire world is now slithering with oligarchy and ruled by corrupt police and pols. You think your country is different 555? Don't even get me started on the farce that is our inter/national banking system.

 

Go team Thailand!

 

Please feel free to buy a ticket and LEAVE bc it's not going to change.

 

Unless you are a teacher or parent, expatriates without permanent residence should really just UFTS about things such as this. Your opinion matters to no Thai.

 

What are you personally doing to make Thailand a better place, especially it's education system? Nothing. Yet here we have all the insipid, denegrating opinions.

 

Seriously.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by ozmeldo

[whiteman]

those sheep have to be in N.Z.

[hanuman2543]

2 hours ago, agudbuk said:

Most followers of the Jewish religion are also Jewish by race being descended from the same ancestor (Abraham).
For information Mohammed was also Jewish as he was also a descendant of Abraham.

Do you call modern Italians Romans too?

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, ozmeldo said:

Your opinion matters to no Thai.

 

And there you have an essential component that is missing - Thais are not interested in the opinion of others which they might learn from. Ignorance isn't not knowing, it's not wanting to know. Thais have not invented a single thing in the history of the Earth. Nothing. I wonder why. They simply use and copy the invention of others.

[cookieqw]

9 hours ago, BobbyL said:

I find that highly confusing unless your children also hold a foreign passport. 

 

If you refer to freedom in their own country, highly debatable depending on their upbringing and family. 

 

If you refer to freedom to travel and work abroad etc, also highly debatable as Thai nationals cannot easily travel or emigrate around the world. 

 

the richer you are the easier it is i suspect

[agudbuk]

Do you call modern Italians Romans too?

Only when they come from Rome.

[cookieqw]

9 hours ago, Thaidream said:

This is an extremely complex subject and there is no way that any foreigner can  fully understand all the dynamics involved.

Thais have the same range of IQs that other people have in other countries. However, Thais are taught from birth that respect of their culture is foremost in their life. That, in itself is a good thing as Thai culture and all of it's intricacies does produce caring and upstanding citizens.

Where it all goes awry is the use of a single educational model that forces students to learn by rote, never question and never develop an inquisitive mindset. Throw in the face issue and you have a very one dimensional academic product.

 

My step daughter is a great example of a Thai student who is gentle; having a deep respect for Thai culture; religion and the family unit. An excellent student who excels at very difficult subjects but never asks Why about anything and keeps most opinions to herself. She is becoming more outgoing as she moves into University but the teaching methodology is the same- lecture and tests and results.She will succeed in Thai business  but have a hard time thinking outside of the box and moving into an international environment.

 

The Government controls the educational process and therein lies the problem. Teachers are trained under the Government system. There is no divergence; no discussion of anything that could possibly be considered controversial and therefore no way to achieve the ability to think and thus have a divergent opinion.

 

IMHO- Thailand has good natural resources; a willing population who with proper training  an education can succeed and excel.  My step daughter actually on my urging gave an opinion and had the right answer- "We need a new generation, younger and with new ideas to take over". Maybe there is hope.

wonderful to hear the right answer  ___  lets hope its not to long off   _____    

[MrPatrickThai]

8 hours ago, hanuman2543 said:

Jews are not a race. They are members of the Jewish religion. 

Jews are a people sharing an ethnic, racial bond. OK, there is an odd black, Thai, or other convert to Judaism but generally there is genetic proof that they come from an indigenous people from whatever Israel was called many years ago.

[soistalker]

11 hours ago, Cranky said:

Ball Hooks.  You are implying all Thais are thick by birth which is no more than a bunch of bigoted racist rambling.  The system is flawed not the kids.

South East Asians routinely score at the bottom of IQ rankings, as do Africans.  Different races of people have different ranges of intelligence. If you think that Thai people are inherently as smart as Koreans, Japanese, or Chinese, then you are ill-informed, uninformed, and/or probably of a low IQ yourself. 

The educational system plays a part, of course. But if you look at South Korea, everyone is in agreement that the system is terribly flawed, yet South Koreans score near the top in IQ, test scores, and aptitude in math and science.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

Since nobody mentioned it yet.  What about the heat.  When I was at school, productivity in the summer on hot days was notably down, because it was just too hot to concentrate and you got tired much easier.  Thais may be more used to the heat, but they sure aren't immune to it.

[hanuman2543]

2 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Jews are a people sharing an ethnic, racial bond. OK, there is an odd black, Thai, or other convert to Judaism but generally there is genetic proof that they come from an indigenous people from whatever Israel was called many years ago.

The "Jews" in the US came from Germany, Poland, Russia, Ukraine and many other European countries where they lived hundreds of years. There was no " Jewish" state or country for nearly 2000 years. They mixed over centuries with people from many other countries. I would not call that a race.

And most of the Jews today are living outside Israel. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by hanuman2543

[rwdrwdrwd]

11 hours ago, agudbuk said:

Most followers of the Jewish religion are also Jewish by race being descended from the same ancestor (Abraham).
For information Mohammed was also Jewish as he was also a descendant of Abraham.

Why does Abraham get to be the catalyst for a race?

[Enoon]

4 hours ago, agudbuk said:

Most followers of the Jewish religion are also Jewish by race being descended from the same ancestor (Abraham).
For information Mohammed was also Jewish as he was also a descendant of Abraham.

 

Jews are not a race, they are an ethnic group which, together with other specific ethnic groups, are described as Semitic Peoples (Semites).

 

All of whom belong to the Caucasian race.

 

You are confusing Race with Ethnicity.

 

 

[sirineou]

11 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

Despite having to check in every 90 days and obtain a visa (extension) annually, I think Thailand is still more free at an individual level than western countries.

 

I'm happy to be living and working here. I teach the best and brightest and I'd challenge all of you to do their math or obtain same SAT scores, do their science learn a third language a few hours a week in three years. Many of my students complete internationally - and win so all you losers can seriously go blow yourselves.

 

Thailand falls short in areas that are going to become extremely important in the near future, 21st century skills. They always pull up short compared to the west, but life goes on. Thailand has done a good job shielding itself thus far from the vagaries of the outside world. It may continue to do so.

 

As for intelligence, the Thai are just as smart and capable, they just need the intellectual tools.

 

The culture is lovely and in this modern age of cultural vomit and chaos I rather like traditions being maintained. I like the politeness, the pretty and charming girls, women in dresses and makeup. I love loy kratong. The food is amazing, even after decades. It is by far the hippest Asian culture outside Japan.

 

People get up for elders, pregnant women and kids on transport. People help others in need. The longer I'm here the more, not less I respect thainess.

 

Yeah, the oligarchy and current political climate sucks. But this entire world is now slithering with oligarchy and ruled by corrupt police and pols. You think your country is different 555? Don't even get me started on the farce that is our inter/national banking system.

 

Go team Thailand!

 

Please feel free to buy a ticket and LEAVE bc it's not going to change.

 

Unless you are a teacher or parent, expatriates without permanent residence should really just UFTS about things such as this. Your opinion matters to no Thai.

 

What are you personally doing to make Thailand a better place, especially it's education system? Nothing. Yet here we have all the insipid, denegrating opinions.

 

Seriously.

 

I clicked "view new content" and I see a post about Jews,  so I wonder what jews have to do with the title of this Thread. 

    I am afraid you are wasting your breath with this crowd my friend.

They are not here to tell as that Thais are stupid, what they are really saying is that they are smarter than Thais, and they are doing this by saying stupid things. 

There is a lot more I could say on this subject but I am afraid I would also be wasting my breath

 

[tryasimight]

21 hours ago, soistalker said:

There is only so much you can do with a low IQ population.

Perhaps if the expat Poms went home the IQ of both countries would increase. 

[tryasimight]

18 hours ago, soistalker said:

You don't know what you are talking about. There are many reports which show that intelligence is mostly a matter of genetics, with environment playing a role, but far less. I suggest you google to educate yourself.

If google is your path to educating yourself then there are some deeper problems to be looked at. In time you may graduate to that apparent font of all knowledge..... Wikipedia and be able to master cutting and pasting 'facts' onto internet fora thus displaying a supremely high IQ. 

I fear for the future of mankind, as did George Orwell. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by tryasimight

[theguyfromanotherforum]

20 hours ago, Cranky said:

Absolutely.  My (Thai) missis is a case in point - she's very intelligent, speaks excellent English and learns quickly, reads a lot and watches educational TV rather than soaps - it's not her fault she had a crap education and graduating from high school at age 18 left her on a par with an 11+ (almost).  Big problem - (which she now recognises aged 30 something) is that when she left school, graduation certificate in hand, she actually believed she was well educated. 

 

Fast forward a few years, now with a law degree which is totally and utterly useless as no law firm will even consider it a qualification as it was obtained through years of correspondence.  Zero prospects of what 'we' would consider a proper job with commensurate wage.

 

On the contrary, my wife is dumb as bricks, watches soaps and her English is awful as she always sends me messages from work about how to write this and that while corresponding with her superiors.

 

Yes, she works for a big international company and making decent money.

 

It's all luck in the end.