You're deemed a resident of Thailand if you stay 180 days

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I'm neither, I leave every 90 days.

Do you have a Thai drivers licence?

I believe you need a letter of residency.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Neeranam

[Mattd]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I'm neither, I leave every 90 days.

But do you come back and stay for another 90 days?

As the topic's title suggests, you are considered resident in Thailand for tax purposes if you spend an aggregate of 180 days or over in Thailand over the course of one calendar year, it doesn't matter that you depart every 90 days, whether you are liable to pay tax is a different matter.

[MaeJoMTB]

5 minutes ago, Mattd said:

But do you come back and stay for another 90 days?

As the topic's title suggests, you are considered resident in Thailand for tax purposes if you spend an aggregate of 180 days or over in Thailand over the course of one calendar year, it doesn't matter that you depart every 90 days, whether you are liable to pay tax is a different matter.

I have no income, so no tax is due in any country.

[rickudon]

19 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Amazing how lawbreakers can justify their actions. If you can sleep well at night, great. Personally, rigorous honesty has greater benefits in my life.

I have not broken any laws about residency ....... yet. I am not required to declare my whereabouts to the UK government every 3 months! And currently my main pension is tax free in Thailand due to previous government employment. All other income is remitted out of tax year, so also not taxable. 

 

The question comes, when a government starts treating you as a second class citizen, denying you services AND asking you to pay more tax than other citizens, is that honest?

[simoh1490]

39 minutes ago, rickudon said:

I have not broken any laws about residency ....... yet. I am not required to declare my whereabouts to the UK government every 3 months! And currently my main pension is tax free in Thailand due to previous government employment. All other income is remitted out of tax year, so also not taxable. 

 

The question comes, when a government starts treating you as a second class citizen, denying you services AND asking you to pay more tax than other citizens, is that honest?

But you are required to tell the government if you've left the country for more than 6 months, especially if you're being paid a state pension!

[Mattd]

39 minutes ago, rickudon said:

I am not required to declare my whereabouts to the UK government every 3 months!

Agreed, if you are absent from the UK for a long period in a tax year, then you would become non-resident for tax purposes.

As a non-working overseas UK citizen, then calculating if you are deemed resident or non-resident for tax purposes in the UK is as follows:

 

You're automatically resident if either:

1. You spent 183 or more days in the UK in the tax year

2. Your only home was in the UK - you must have owned, rented or lived in it for at least 91 days in total - and you spent at least 30 days there in the tax year.

 

You’re automatically non-resident if either:

You spent fewer than 16 days in the UK in a Tax Year (or 46 days if you haven’t been classed as UK resident for the 3 previous tax years)

You work abroad full-time (averaging at least 35 hours a week) and spent fewer than 91 days in the UK, of which no more than 30 were spent working.

 

I have no idea how they class a person who spent more than 16 days, but less than 182 days in the UK within a tax year!

 

However, things are changing worldwide and financial institutions are being compelled to confirm a persons identity and residency status, in the case of UK based banks for example, they will ask you for a tax ID number for here if they know or suspect you are living here, it is all part of the Common Reporting Standards (OECD) and as I have previously stated there is a trend towards the UK government thinking that if you are not tax resident there, then you must be tax resident somewhere.

 

In theory, if you meet the Thai tax residency at 180 days or more in Thailand per calendar year and your income exceeds the filing amount, then a tax filing should be submitted, even if no tax is owed, as of right now this is never enforced for foreigners who are not working here and long may that last. 

 

So far the only good thing is that Thailand are not on the list of countries who have signed up to share info, yet...........

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/automatic-exchange-of-information-introduction

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Agreed, if you are absent from the UK for a long period in a tax year, then you would become non-resident for tax purposes.

As a non-working overseas UK citizen, then calculating if you are deemed resident or non-resident for tax purposes in the UK is as follows:

 

You're automatically resident if either:

1. You spent 183 or more days in the UK in the tax year

2. Your only home was in the UK - you must have owned, rented or lived in it for at least 91 days in total - and you spent at least 30 days there in the tax year.

 

You’re automatically non-resident if either:

You spent fewer than 16 days in the UK in a Tax Year (or 46 days if you haven’t been classed as UK resident for the 3 previous tax years)

You work abroad full-time (averaging at least 35 hours a week) and spent fewer than 91 days in the UK, of which no more than 30 were spent working.

 

I have no idea how they class a person who spent more than 16 days, but less than 182 days in the UK within a tax year!

 

However, things are changing worldwide and financial institutions are being compelled to confirm a persons identity and residency status, in the case of UK based banks for example, they will ask you for a tax ID number for here if they know or suspect you are living here, it is all part of the Common Reporting Standards (OECD) and as I have previously stated there is a trend towards the UK government thinking that if you are not tax resident there, then you must be tax resident somewhere.

 

In theory, if you meet the Thai tax residency at 180 days or more in Thailand per calendar year and your income exceeds the filing amount, then a tax filing should be submitted, even if no tax is owed, as of right now this is never enforced for foreigners who are not working here and long may that last. 

 

So far the only good thing is that Thailand are not on the list of countries who have signed up to share info, yet...........

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/automatic-exchange-of-information-introduction

5

"and your income exceeds the filing amount, then a tax filing should be submitted, even if no tax is owed, as of right now this is never enforced for foreigners who are not working here and long may that last".

 

There is no minimum income filing amount, a person with 100 baht of income and 15 baht tax can file but there is no requirement to do so.

[Mattd]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

"and your income exceeds the filing amount, then a tax filing should be submitted, even if no tax is owed, as of right now this is never enforced for foreigners who are not working here and long may that last".

 

There is no minimum income filing amount, a person with 100 baht of income and 15 baht tax can file but there is no requirement to do so.

True, except if you have an accessible income that is above 60,000 THB if single or 120,000 THB if married to a Thai, then in THEORY you are required to.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/fileadmin/download/english_form/Guide90_260261.pdf

[rickudon]

Well, last year i was never in Thailand for more than 3 months at a time, rest of time in UK. Not sure if i will be here 6 months this time, we shall see. And i do fall into that grey area of spending between 3-6 months in the UK each year. As all my income arises in the UK, they tax me resident or not. In Thailand, i just use my UK credit card. I never 'remit' income as such.

 

I'm just a grey man. And will stay that way.

[simoh1490]

42 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Well, last year i was never in Thailand for more than 3 months at a time, rest of time in UK. Not sure if i will be here 6 months this time, we shall see. And i do fall into that grey area of spending between 3-6 months in the UK each year. As all my income arises in the UK, they tax me resident or not. In Thailand, i just use my UK credit card. I never 'remit' income as such.

 

I'm just a grey man. And will stay that way.

Being grey for residency purposes is the only good kind of grey there is! 

[jerry921]

Simple question before I read all 11 pages... Does this thread matter to US citizens or is it mostly important for UK/Aus residents who have pensions? I think the US is going to claim me for taxes no matter where I live or for how long, and I can get Soc Sec as long as I follow the country-dependent reporting rules.

[wordchild]

10 hours ago, jerry921 said:

Simple question before I read all 11 pages... Does this thread matter to US citizens or is it mostly important for UK/Aus residents who have pensions? I think the US is going to claim me for taxes no matter where I live or for how long, and I can get Soc Sec as long as I follow the country-dependent reporting rules.

not relevant, don't waste your time; mostly this thread is about the Thailand/UK double taxation treaty; completely different situation for a US citizen residing in Thailand

[JimGant]

Quote

Simple question before I read all 11 pages... Does this thread matter to US citizens

The subject is germaine to Yanks, while most of the responses are Brit related.

 

Specifically, the Thai-US tax treaty gives Thailand "first dibs on certain income, like private pensions... if you live here for 180 days and are thus deemed a tax resident. But, yes, you must also declare this income on your US tax return, but are able to take a tax credit for all those taxes you paid Thailand on the same income (up to the amount of the US taxation on same amount).

 

Anyway, most you'll gleen from this thread is that Thailand -- in spite of what is said in tax conventions -- doesn't really care to tax farangs (US, Brit, Oz etc) on any income they bring in from abroad -- not just yet anyway.

 

A better thread to give you an idea of how Americans can "sideslip" that "must pay taxes on all worldwide income" fact of life is found here:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1008555-tax-specialist-in-chiang-mai/?page=6&tab=comments#comment-12750759

With the tax adviser mentioned in this thread advertising 'no need to pay anybody any tax,' I'll leave it up to you to read the discussion -- and determine his bonafides. And, yes, it's a perfect time to avoid taxes, what with nobody home at the IRS.

 

 

[Neeranam]

On 12/03/2018 at 9:28 PM, MaeJoMTB said:

I have no income, so no tax is due in any country.

But you are a resident. I guess you don't have a drivers licence if you have no income.

[SpokaneAl]

But you are a resident. I guess you don't have a drivers licence if you have no income.

No income? Are you a monk?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

No income? Are you a monk?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

I was talking about maejombtb, who won't answer my question if he has a drivers licence. He said he had no income and is not a resident.

[DannyP]

Hello, I'm ctizienship of Europe Union country.  I lived in Thailand since January based on one tourist visa and 30 days visa exemptions.  Generally in 2018, from January to 14 Septemer, I spent 209 days in Thailand. Moreover I have savings account in Thai bank. Every month I transfer money from my national bank to Thai bank and then withdraw cash in bank's branch. I do it, because for me it's the most worthwhile way to withdraw money without any big comissions and fees. 

 

1. According information in this topic, I already spend more than 180 days in Thailand. Do You think I have to pay tax in Thailand now?

 

2. In the half of October I want to leave Thailand across land boarder with Cambodia, then travel around Asia and after back to Thailand around half of January. Do You think when I will try to leave Thailand in October, the officer will stopp me and say I cannot depart, because I need to pay tax before?  Is it probably? Do You have situation like this in last months / last years? 

 

3. Do You know maybe the stake of the tax in situation like mine? 

 

I will be grateful for Your help and sorry for me English. Just let me know, if You dont understand something. 

 

 

 

[DannyP]

Hello, I'm ctizienship of Europe Union country.  I lived in Thailand since January based on one tourist visa and 30 days visa exemptions.  Generally in 2018, from January to 14 Septemer, I spent 209 days in Thailand. Moreover I have savings account in Thai bank. Every month I transfer money from my national bank to Thai bank and then withdraw cash in bank's branch. I do it, because for me it's the most worthwhile way to withdraw money without any big comissions and fees. 

 

1. According information in this topic, I already spend more than 180 days in Thailand. Do You think I have to pay tax in Thailand now? Btw My country has  agreetment on avoidance of double taxation with Thailand. 

 

2. In the half of October I want to leave Thailand across land boarder with Cambodia, then travel around Asia and after back to Thailand around half of January. Do You think when I will try to leave Thailand in October, the officer will stopp me and say I cannot depart, because I need to pay tax before?  Is it probably? Do You have situation like this in last months / last years? 

 

3. Do You know maybe the stake of the tax in situation like mine? 

 

I will be grateful for Your help and sorry for me English. Just let me know, if You dont understand something. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thailand J]

so much to worry...

[Naam]

5 hours ago, DannyP said:

Do You think when I will try to leave Thailand in October, the officer will stopp me and say I cannot depart, because I need to pay tax before?  Is it probably?

no it is not. relax, there's nothing to worry.

[wgdanson]

On 3/2/2018 at 8:28 AM, simoh1490 said:

either that or QROPS for private pensions.

They are now called ROPS........................as in not qualified. Ah well.

[The manic]

On 3/2/2018 at 1:28 AM, simoh1490 said:

Presumably, you mean if the pension payments are over the personal allowance, so they are going to get taxed somewhere regardless.

 

And when the UK abolishes the Personal Allowance for non-resident expats. an offshore bank account in a third country might be needed for some people perhaps, either that or QROPS for private pensions.

 

 

The UK has plans to abolish the PA for non residents? Have you got a link?

[Scottjouro]

33 minutes ago, The manic said:

The UK has plans to abolish the PA for non residents? Have you got a link?

This might be what the poster is talking about

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance

[The manic]

2 minutes ago, Scottjouro said:

This might be what the poster is talking about

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance/restricting-non-residents-entitlement-to-the-uk-personal-allowance

Oh 2014. I remember signing a petition about that about 4 years ago.

[grobec]

“Any tax”

Guess one could try to include VAT paid if applicable.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[simoh1490]

11 minutes ago, The manic said:

Oh 2014. I remember signing a petition about that about 4 years ago.

Yes that's the one, it will happen sooner or later. The US has clamped down in similar areas, non-resident green card holders who are paid US Social Security (pension) are now taxed at source at a rate of 24.5% with NO opportunity to recover the tax since they are no longer allowed personal exemptions on their tax returns - it's soft target time on planet earth

[Scottjouro]

On 3/2/2018 at 8:42 AM, Neeranam said:

I know a few professional gamblers lining in Thailand too. I know some who made a fortune on cryptocurrencies, etc.

It comes down to how honest you are, can you live with tax fraud on your ?

 

Under the new crypto currency laws, Crypto is subject to a 15% capital gains tax, so if one is tax resident in Thailand, playing the Crypto market and not declaring any profits this, you are committing tax fraud without a doubt

[Scottjouro]

11 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Yes that's the one, it will happen sooner or later. The US has clamped down in similar areas, non-resident green card holders who are paid US Social Security (pension) are now taxed at source at a rate of 24.5% with NO opportunity to recover the tax since they are no longer allowed personal exemptions on their tax returns - it's soft target time on planet earth

 

Ultimately the tax man will not chase anyone as such, all they will do is make people applying for extensions of stay prove their tax affairs are in order and make a declaration of where they are resident for tax and provide those tax numbers, and if unable to provide status of their tax affairs and present more than 180 days pa. In country they will be liable for full taxation in Thailand 

 

It will end up with the onus on the indivdual to prove their tax affairs are in order, not the tax man proving you owe them money 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Scottjouro

[kannot]

On 3/2/2018 at 9:20 AM, overherebc said:

Depends on age. ?

shes 16??

[RotBenz8888]

So you've gained income and been tax registered in Europe, and yet spent over 180d per year in Thailand the past few years, then one day, your decide to tax register in Thailand. Will the rules according to the Double Tax Treaties still apply for any possible retroactive tax?