Theresa May urges Britain to 'come back together'

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Stevenl.
I did not say that..however some of S/w posts show him imo to be a very bitter bad loser re the Brexit vote..his imo rather cheap and would be sarcastic comments..eg "swivel eyed " etc etc

Let me give you the words of one of founders of what is now the eu..a certain Jean Monnet.
" Europe's nationals should be guided towards a superstate without their people understanding what is happening.
This can be accomplished by successive steps..each disguised as having an economic purpose..but which will eventually and inevitably lead to Federation ".

That was my main reason to vote LEAVE !!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Jean Monnet was a post war hero. However, the comments by a French finance minister 65 years ago is hardly relevant to today's debate! What was Napoleon's view?

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Grouse..I do not wish my friends..their children and grandchildren to be " ruled " by unelected jobsworths over in brussels..who in turn are but mere " goffers " for the big financial players..eg. soros.goldman sachs.rothchilds.etc etc.
Why not wait a few years and then we can have a proper discussion as to whether Brexit has been a success for the British people.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

You are clearly inadequately  informed and mis-informed. In fact you are an exemplar of why the 17M should just be ignored. Do try and provide some rational, properly supported ideas to back up your rather facile stance.

 

Many Cons have rational (and in my opinion dangerous) plans for a post Brexit UK. Sorry to say, they are a different calibre of Brexiter. 

[malagateddy]

Do not know..please enlighten me re Napoleon's thoughts.
Off out now..bit of shopping to be done.
Hope you have a good day
Ps..ever thought of looking up the names of the Kalergi Prizewinners..von rumpey.blair.tusk.gordon brown.merkel ??
Pps. Had good laugh reading about blair's prince of darkness.mandelson's strange antics.
Certainly puts new slant on that well known phrase.." hope your next one's a hedge-hog ".[emoji6]


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[malagateddy]

Sorry..please google and read " the blair miranda " re mandelson etc.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Jean Monnet died amost 40 years ago and stopped being influential long before that. If we start to quote long dead peope as being the justification for contemporary decisions we leave ourselves open to ridicule, or should we reprise the Lord Rothermere's cry of All Hail the Black Shirts?

Sounds like an admission then?

 

The Monnet deceit has been carried through the years by successive influential EU bureaucrats. Now most of the cat is out of the bag. 

[Grouse]

But back to the OP

 

May made an effort to bring the  Tories together but not the country. She made no headway with the 27.

 

Time for a major change

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Jean Monnet was a post war hero. However, the comments by a French finance minister 65 years ago is hardly relevant to today's debate! What was Napoleon's view?

They are as relevant as they were then. How democratic is that?

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by nauseus

[malagateddy]

Correct..Jacob Rees Mogg for the PM's job.
Must fly..wife's dragging me out..shopping [emoji54]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

But back to the OP

 

May made an effort to bring the  Tories together but not the country. She made no headway with the 27.

 

Time for a major change

Agree with line 2.

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

British votes have been increasingly negated in the Council of the EU due to QMV (qualified majority voting). Luvvies who say that we are better off staying in so we can change and influence the EU are just dreaming. 

27 countries agree with those rules, only ONE wants still cherry picking. Not any kind of common sense, integrity, community, democracy.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Do not know..please enlighten me re Napoleon's thoughts.
Off out now..bit of shopping to be done.
Hope you have a good day
Ps..ever thought of looking up the names of the Kalergi Prizewinners..von rumpey.blair.tusk.gordon brown.merkel ??
Pps. Had good laugh reading about blair's prince of darkness.mandelson's strange antics.
Certainly puts new slant on that well known phrase.." hope your next one's a hedge-hog ".


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

If TV is allowed to degenerate into a home for conspiracy theories, I am out. I come here for amusing but intelligent discussion. Nonsense bores me.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Correct..Jacob Rees Mogg for the PM's job

And the sweat of your grandchildren will be used to water the flower beds of the stately home of his grandchildren

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

They are as relevant as they were then. How democratic is that?

 

Nonsense, we have moved far from the coal and steel community. Monnet has no bearing on today's debate 

[nauseus]

48 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nonsense, we have moved far from the coal and steel community. Monnet has no bearing on today's debate 

I couldn't disagree more. Monnet and his deceitful tactics, which were continued on by Heath and all the rest to date, have a direct bearing on this debate, which is still really about the UK, the EU, the referendum and the outcome of same. An issue which is not commonly discussed on TV with regard to the EU is that of trust. Most of the senior voters are aware of this deception now and they do not trust the EU anymore.

 

I shudder to think the way many kids are being educated in the UK today but its a shame to see from interviews on TV that they seem to value things like their smartphone accounts and balances higher than integrity and core values (which most of them will learn for themselves later in life whether they want to or not).

 

Trust is vital and is what I see leavers sense is lacking, when they evaluate the EU, from its deceitful history to its likely similar future.  

Edited March 4, 2018 by nauseus

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I couldn't disagree more. Monnet and his deceitful tactics, which were continued on by Heath and all the rest to date, have a direct bearing on this debate, which is still really about the UK, the EU, the referendum and the outcome of same. An issue which is not commonly discussed on TV with regard to the EU is that of trust. Most of the senior voters are aware of this deception now and they do not trust the EU anymore.

 

I shudder to think the way many kids are being educated in the UK today but its a shame to see from interviews on TV that they seem to value things like their smartphone accounts and balances higher than integrity and core values (which most of them will learn for themselves later in life whether they want to or not).

 

Trust is vital and is what I see leavers sense is lacking, when they evaluate the EU, from its deceitful history to its likely similar future.  

And those older voters will be healthier too because of the promise made by the honest Brexit leaders that  National Health will be getting an additional 50 million pounds per day. Clearly, these were people of principle. In fact, honest Boris Johnson is still insisting that this will be the case.

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I couldn't disagree more. Monnet and his deceitful tactics, which were continued on by Heath and all the rest to date, have a direct bearing on this debate, which is still really about the UK, the EU, the referendum and the outcome of same. An issue which is not commonly discussed on TV with regard to the EU is that of trust. Most of the senior voters are aware of this deception now and they do not trust the EU anymore.

 

I shudder to think how many kids are being educated in the UK today but its a shame to see from interviews on TV that they seem to value things like their smart phone accounts and balances higher than integrity and core values (which most of them will learn for themselves later in life whether they want to or not).

 

Trust is vital and is what I see leavers sense is lacking, when they evaluate the EU, from its deceitful history to its likely similar future.  

I agree with your emphasis on integrity

 

That is why I dispise our government's shenanigans immediately post the December agreement of phase 1.

 

Immediately post war, Marshall Plan and iron curtain, needs were rather different. Monnet and Schuman have been left far, far behind. 

 

I would welcome discussion on how the EU could improve in terms of democratic processes and efficiency. Certainly the 2 centres should be scrapped. London would be better. ?

 

I dont mind the salaries but the expenses seem rather lavish

 

I have no idea what mechanisms could be used to improve democracy within the EU

Edited March 4, 2018 by Grouse

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

And those older voters will be healthier too because of the promise made by the honest Brexit leaders that  National Health will be getting an additional 50 million pounds per day. Clearly, these were people of principle. In fact, honest Boris Johnson is still insisting that this will be the case.

Well as long as that's an admission that the EU really is a scam I'm happy with that!

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I agree with your emphasis on integrity

 

That is why I dispise our governments shenanigans immediately post the December agreement of phase 1.

 

Immediately post war, Marshall Plan and iron curtain, needs were rather different. Monnet and Schuman have been left far, far behind. 

 

I would welcome discussion on how the EU could improve in terms of democratic processes and efficiency. Certainly the 2 centres should be scrapped. London would be better. ?

 

I dont mind the salaries but the expenses seem rather lavish

 

I have no idea what mechanisms could be used to improve democracy within the EU

For it to have a chance to work it would need a Swedish reset. A complete restart. Clear mission with honestly declared goals and the people of the member states properly represented with absolute rights to veto anything they want.

 

In other words a complete reformation of structure followed by open and truthful communication, cooperation and consent.

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well as long as that's an admission that the EU really is a scam I'm happy with that!

I  guess if you're a certain kind of obsessive you can consider anything you read as support for your stance. Or may it's just due to dyslexia.

[nauseus]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

I  guess if you're a certain kind of obsessive you can consider anything you read as support for your stance. Or may it's just due to dyslexia.

My post was about the EU - not Boris - it is you that seems to have the reading problem.

 

Any criticism of your beloved EU seems to just bring an automatic riposte with an example of bad UK politicians or politics. Not hard to find! 

 

We all know how bad our own politicians are but at least they can be controlled far more directly than the Buffoons of Brussels.  

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

Grouse..I do not wish my friends..their children and grandchildren to be " ruled " by unelected jobsworths over in brussels..who in turn are but mere " goffers " for the big financial players..eg. soros.goldman sachs.rothchilds.etc etc.

And then, Hurrah! A swivel-eyed Conspiracy Theory Red Bus rolls up. Right on time.

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

We all know how bad our own politicians are but at least they can be controlled far more directly than the Buffoons of Brussels.  

I think you put very unrealistic faith in the ability of the British voters to effect change in our government. Have we ever had such an unrepresentative bunch of over-privileged, out of touch politicians running our country?

[evadgib]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Rees-Mogg: the man who went canvassing with his nanny.

How does that change the view in the video you think you have ridiculed?

Here's this weeks agenda:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/programme-eu-uk-article-50-negotiations-brussels-5-7-march-2018

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

But back to the OP

May made an effort to bring the  Tories together but not the country. She made no headway with the 27.

Time for a major change

Theresa May may have made an effort to bring the Tories together but the battle still rages long and hard. The speech was addressed primarily to them. The Government is still facing inwards and unable to negotiate with the EU in any substantive detail. Running out of road to do so as well.

[malagateddy]

Ah..the little child who loves using "swivel eyed".."half a brain" is back with us
Nursery finished then..more I luv the eu homework to do??


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I think you put very unrealistic faith in the ability of the British voters to effect change in our government. Have we ever had such an unrepresentative bunch of over-privileged, out of touch politicians running our country?

Probably but we didn't have the internet then!

 

Happy to see reform in the UK system too but at least we can change out governments every few years. I'd like to see more political parties, especially one was truly The Honest, Capable and Sensible Party.

 

  

[nauseus]

37 minutes ago, nauseus said:

For it to have a chance to work it would need a Swedish reset. A complete restart. Clear mission with honestly declared goals and the people of the member states properly represented with absolute rights to veto anything they want.

 

In other words a complete reformation of structure followed by open and truthful communication, cooperation and consent.

Perhaps they could call it "Common Market"!

[sandrabbit]

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

And those older voters will be healthier too because of the promise made by the honest Brexit leaders that  National Health will be getting an additional 50 million pounds per day. Clearly, these were people of principle. In fact, honest Boris Johnson is still insisting that this will be the case.

Hmmmm. The NHS treats sick/ injured people and returns them to society. It doesn't make them healthier.

That would be if it made people stop smoking, eating too much sugar and saturated fats, and exercise more. It does none of that.

 

As one that actually worked in the NHS, throwing more money into the bureaucratic mess is just wasting it. The NHS needs a radical reformation, to stop doing things it was never intended to do, and live within its budget.

[puck2]

On 3.3.2018 at 2:03 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Unelected bureaucrats should have nothing to do with creating laws or regulations. That they do so is undemocratic.

Get out, now, and don't look back.

...........................

 

 

It's a horror to read comments of Brexit-friends only armed with propaganda delivered by Farage, Johnson and cohorts, but free of knowledge.

 

1. It seems hard for some British people to understand that the supranational EU system isn't exactly the same as the democratic system in Britain. That doesn't mean the EU-system is undemocratic. It is nearly a federal system. Believe it or not, the EU has a democratic system, not an autocratic one, as falsely repeated many times here in TV. It is democratic, because

• it depends of the separation of powers

  • the EU Commission is the executive power

  • the legislative consists of 2 parts (chambers?)

    • the European parliament chosen by the citizens

    • the Council of Europe, sent by the member states (comparable to the German Bundesrat)

  • the European Court of Justice

 

One thing makes me   and sad at the same time. Most of the Brexiteers call the EU system undemocratic. Then I have to ask them, why did GB join such a horror-system and staying in it for ~ 40 years?  Do you detect the contradiction to your believe of an undemocratic/autocratic system!

 

All democracies, be it GB, USA, Sweden, Australia or Germany, i.e., have their own administrations, some call it bureaucracy. But without it no the state – here in this case the EU as a supranational Union – cannot work. Or can you imagine that there is a state without tax-, justice- and other offices? Therefore the EU needs one, too.

 

There are a lot of Brexiteers that condemn this bureaucracy and believe it's only bad. That there are many, many positive effects... here only a few catchwords

• a uniform, supranational system for the industry, law etc.

• the economic power of a single state nowadays is minimal, the EU is a power factor.

• do you remember the EU fighting against nearly criminal monopolies; as Google, Microsoft, and the fight against astronomic bank fees.

• the custom free area for many, many goods within the EU; saving money just for the not so riches.

• support for the not so rich EU states, especially in the Eastern EU. Although a „pain“ for the money dominated Brexiteers, it helps to avoid wars, solving problems peacefully (for now many years) etc.