Humans first - soi dogs second! Thais now advocating "the final solution"

[owl sees all]

How does a dog or cat etc,, get rabies? Is it only from another infected animal? Has rabies always been here but sort of "out of sight; out of mind?"

[oldlakey]

5 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

How does a dog or cat etc,, get rabies? Is it only from another infected animal? Has rabies always been here but sort of "out of sight; out of mind?"

Yes thats about the size of it and with the attitude to feral animals in general not just rabies expect nothing to change except the time of day

[owl sees all]

47 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Yes thats about the size of it and with the attitude to feral animals in general not just rabies expect nothing to change except the time of day

What I'm thinking OL, is can a perfectly well animal get Rabies by means other than from an infected animal? If rabies were to be eradicated; could it reappear under certain circumstances.

 

When I first went to Southern Spain it was not a good idea to get close to a stray dogs because of rabies. This would be about 30 years ago. Not heard anything from those parts since.

[The manic]

4 hours ago, bluedoc said:

It’s stupid to impound them. Don’t impound, catch them as humanely as possible. And dispatch them as humanely as possible. But get rid. They shit anywhere, on streets, on grass on the beach, young children play on the beach and inadvertently get ill because of dogs. Cull all dogs on the loose, with or without collar.

A dog pound is where genuinely ost dogs can found by their owner and if not claimed can given to suitable new owners. 

[Airbagwill]

Rabies isn't MAGIC ...it's a virus.

the virus has to enter the body usually via the bloodstream. dog saliva is loaded with the virus.....So if a dog is bitten by another dog or any other mammal that has rabies it gets it.....just like humans.

 

Of course dogs fight - largely over territory so if you take dogs out of an arewa the "new" dogs are likely to fight with the others already their to establish the pecking order....this is how killing dogs can actually increase the spread of rabies.

 

the fact is you can't eradicate rabies, especially in a mainland country as it is always there either in the wilderness or the next region.... thisis why a cull is pointless it can't logically have any effect. However if you create a herd immunity in an existing population then rabies can't take hold in the population.

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Airbagwill

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Rabies isn't MAGIC ...it's a virus.

the virus has to enter the body usually via the bloodstream. So if a dog is bitten by another dog or any other mammal that has rabies it gets it.....just like humans.

 

Of course dogs fight - largely over territory so if you take dogs out of an arewa the "new" dogs are likely to fight with the others already their to establish the pecking order....this is how killing dogs can actually increase the spread of rabies.

 

 

If killing dogs can increase the spread of rabies, I think it would be fair to suggest we are not killing enough.

[Airbagwill]

BTW - I don't think people have actually thought through the practicalities of culling. First you catch the dogs then they are taken to a pound, then they are put down. If you go around shooting dogs in a town it is unacceptable, dangerous and chaotic; then you have thousands of dog carcasses to collect.

It is simply to catch spay/vaccinate and release, that waty you get rid of rabies and eventually reduce the population to manageable levels.

[Airbagwill]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

If killing dogs can increase the spread of rabies, I think it would be fair to suggest we are not killing enough.

I think the process has been fully explained, if you don't understand it, just accept that is the case.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

I think the process has been fully explained, if you don't understand it, just accept that is the case.

Nice try, I understand alright. Some people want to understand what suits their agenda. 

[utalkin2me]

Didn’t they just say there were opposed to doing this?

 

i try unsuccessfully to convince my wife of this: if you constantly make statements and then just change your mind, nobody can ever rely on anything you say (including the current culling proposal of course). Your words become useless! 

[oldlakey]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

What I'm thinking OL, is can a perfectly well animal get Rabies by means other than from an infected animal? If rabies were to be eradicated; could it reappear under certain circumstances.

 

When I first went to Southern Spain it was not a good idea to get close to a stray dogs because of rabies. This would be about 30 years ago. Not heard anything from those parts since.

Dont quote me 55555 but once its eradicated I would say it can only reappear via introduction from a rabid animal

The UK has been rabies free since the early 20th century apart from once or twice when it was reintroduced by importing it via infected animals which were reasonably quickly removed

[Airbagwill]

8 hours ago, oldlakey said:

Dont quote me 55555 but once its eradicated I would say it can only reappear via introduction from a rabid animal

The UK has been rabies free since the early 20th century apart from once or twice when it was reintroduced by importing it via infected animals which were reasonably quickly removed

You miss a VERY important point. The UK is an island.

There is alsothe minor point you mention that despite this their have been breaches....

However is the population of strays is sustainably reduced then things like rabies are far easier to control. This is far easier on an island and in a society that has relatively organised garbage disposal.

[Airbagwill]

10 hours ago, vogie said:

Nice try, I understand alright. Some people want to understand what suits their agenda. 

Agenda? Please explain.

To me this just seems to underline your lack of understanding of the situation.

Assassin would helpfully took time to inform yourself.

 

[Airbagwill]

11 hours ago, owl sees all said:

What I'm thinking OL, is can a perfectly well animal get Rabies by means other than from an infected animal? If rabies were to be eradicated; could it reappear under certain circumstances.

 

When I first went to Southern Spain it was not a good idea to get close to a stray dogs because of rabies. This would be about 30 years ago. Not heard anything from those parts since.

Rabies travels over land borders.

It is relatively rare in the EU but makes an appearance every now and then. The authorities are extremely vigilant.

" Illegally imported dogs infected with rabies virus were reported in France (2012 and 2015), Spain (2013) and the Netherlands (2013) [2] [3]. The re-emergence of rabies in northern Italy in 2008–2011 and in Greece in 2012–2013 " - 

Rabies - Annual Epidemiological Report 2016 [2014 data]

 

As dogs are the animals that most people get close to, they are the most common source of infection for humans. Any mammal wild or domesticated can transmit rabies.

I'm surprised we haven't had cases of rabid monkeys in Thailand...Or have we?

 

[Keesters]

15 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

In countries like the UK the "dog problem" involves tiny numbers compared to Thailand so operations like Battersea can be successful. In Bangkok alone you'll need to impound 750,000 dogs. the total figure for the UK is over100,000 and the pounds etc are however at "breaking point". so Thailand with no proper infrastructure or policies is quite unable to cope.

 

the other problem is that removing dogs from packs enables other dogs to move in to take their place and this results in the spreading of rabies.

As hard as it maybe a solution has to be found and the dogs removed. The continual injuring of people, death of people, road accidents etc caused by stray dogs has to STOP no matter how much you'd have it left as it is. Be part of the solution not the problem. Find a way, not just shoot other people down because it suits your agenda.

[vogie]

10 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Of course dogs fight - largely over territory so if you take dogs out of an arewa the "new" dogs are likely to fight with the others already their to establish the pecking order....this is how killing dogs can actually increase the spread of rabies.

Do you think wild dogs should be on the street to fight. Many would say streets without these dogs on them would be a much safer place for ourselves and our children.

 

24 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Agenda? Please explain.

To me this just seems to underline your lack of understanding of the situation.

Assassin would helpfully took time to inform yourself.

Angenda, it would seem you want to return these animals back to the street to <deleted> and cause more disease.

 

Don't you think it's a tad arrogant to state that you understand the situation and I don't.

 

And your last sentence I cannot answer, because I don't understand it.

[Airbagwill]

16 minutes ago, Keesters said:

As hard as it maybe a solution has to be found and the dogs removed. The continual injuring of people, death of people, road accidents etc caused by stray dogs has to STOP no matter how much you'd have it left as it is. Be part of the solution not the problem. Find a way, not just shoot other people down because it suits your agenda.

It seems many don't understand that there is no simple black and white simple and sudden solution however, the solution is there and it's known, like many things in Thailand the authorities are reluctant to take on the task.

The solution involves expenditure and will take several years but it is the ONLY way to go.

no cull has ever worked in Asia.

[Airbagwill]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

Do you think wild dogs should be on the street to fight. Many would say streets without these dogs on them would be a much safer place for ourselves and our children.

 

Angenda, it would seem you want to return these animals back to the street to <deleted> and cause more disease.

 

Don't you think it's a tad arrogant to state that you understand the situation and I don't.

 

And your last sentence I cannot answer, because I don't understand it.

"Angenda, it would seem you want to return these animals back to the street to <deleted> and cause more disease." - QED you simply don't understand the solution.... Please - get up to speed or just read the posts on this and other threads.

[Airbagwill]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

Assassin would helpfully took time to inform yourself.

Erratum - "assasin" sentence is a predictive text mistake which should read

 

"it would help if you took the time to inform yourself:"

[AboutThaim]

16 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Unlikely - 4 litters a year maybe, but the dog will probably die after 3 years.

however if you look at the extended family that results, it can expand to over 65,000 in 6 years....

 

As you point out though, dogs breed fast and unless you simultaneously kill the entire population dogs from other areas just replace the culled animals and the population continues to grow and the spread ofdiseases like rabies increases.

 

however dogs won't live or breed in areas where there is no food.

Seems you still haven't been able to grasp the concept that it would be more impossible to starve the dog population into oblivion than it would be to cull them.  Do you think starving dogs won't attack small kids or each other?  Any animal/bird would be a meal, lizards, ducks, chooks, etc.  Even larger animals like calves, goats.  Come up with a plausible idea.  I see you have changed "culls don't work" to "no cull in Asia has worked".  Has there ever been an attempt?

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Erratum - "assasin" sentence is a predictive text mistake which should read

 

"it would help if you took the time to inform yourself:"

Oh so its my fault you don't read your own posts before posting, how the hell was I suppose to know what you meant. I am sick of your insults and your arrogant posting, it is you that doesn't "understand", you just think you do. Goodbye.

[owl sees all]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Oh so its my fault you don't read your own posts before posting, how the hell was I suppose to know what you meant. I am sick of your insults and your arrogant posting, it is you that doesn't "understand", you just think you do. Goodbye.

Oh come now Vogie!! AirBagWill has kept this thread alive (almost singlehandedely) for yonks. Envy of the big posters; maybe. I like some of his points. Live and let live.

[Ostlund56]

Kill them all, what's the problem ?

[vogie]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Erratum - "assasin" sentence is a predictive text mistake which should read

 

"it would help if you took the time to inform yourself:"

This post is meant for @owl sees all

It appears to be my fault, I should have known that 'assasin' should have read 'erratum,' I know I'm good, but not that good. Reading other peoples minds is not my strong point at the moment.

How can you debate with someone who if you disagree with what he says, keeps on saying "you don't understand" "inform yourself" "try to keep up" 

Edited March 27, 2018 by vogie

[owl sees all]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

This post is meant for @owl sees all

It appears to be my fault, I should have known that 'assasin' should have read 'erratum,' I know I'm good, but not that good. Reading other peoples minds is not my strong point at the moment.

How can you debate with someone who if you disagree with what he says, keeps on saying "you don't understand" "inform yourself" "try to keep up"

AirBagWill said a few posts ago that dogs fight. I reckon he has a point there.

 

When (if) he gets to be a seasoned poster, like us, he will be more accomodating to others' points of view. 

 

TVForum is noted throughout the world for its dynamic banter so let's not be too judgemental.

[dallen52]

17 hours ago, bluedoc said:

Simple maths a bitch can have a litter every two months. Say 5 each litter. Say 2 females each litter. Carry on. Get rid of all soi dogs not claimed, get rid off all dogs in pack. If someone wants a dog they should get a licence. Chip all dogs.

Give the britches a feed. 

And a birth control implant at the same time. 

They never come on heat. 

And the cycle is reduced dramatically. 

Plus a few lead paracetamol to reduce the numbers. 

 

They are a blight on the place. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 4:07 PM, dick dasterdly said:

Very good point .

 

Those of us who trust our pets/soi dogs far more than we trust the vast majority of people, are clearly un-hinged in some way .

Actually, both dogs and humans are similar, because both species behave like animals, which both are.

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

You miss a VERY important point. The UK is an island.

There is alsothe minor point you mention that despite this their have been breaches....

However is the population of strays is sustainably reduced then things like rabies are far easier to control. This is far easier on an island and in a society that has relatively organised garbage disposal.

"However is the population of strays is sustainably reduced then things like rabies are far easier to control. This is far easier on an island and in a society that has relatively organised garbage disposal."

 

Well I'll be blowed, disregarding the island part of your comment, who could have anyone guessed that a reduced stray dog population and organised garbage disposal could help reduce the problem -- and just to complete the trifecta - you should have added, stop feeding the soi dogs.  

 

Maybe this is the reason that many (uninformed - in your opinion) posters have been promoting a major and on-going cull campaign.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

The solution involves expenditure and will take several years but it is the ONLY way to go.

Those injured and infected during those several years disagree with "ONLY".

[Artisi]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those injured and infected during those several years disagree with "ONLY".

but those injured and infected  don't count (collateral damage and acceptable) when pushing your idea's as the true gospel - you should be aware that there is only one expert posting here, just ask and will be will told in no short order.