A bitter pill to swallow .

[Gruff]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

I believe it depend of from where the retired expat originates; some countries are not that bad to move back to, and one's governmental retirement pension may increase when returning, in my country it could easily double before taxation. Furthermore some currencies has dropped more than others, i.e. GBP compared to Euro and Euro-linked currencies.

 

Excluding the sad horror-cases, where someone has been used as ATM or worse; do I sense it's mainly British expats having that kind problems..?

 

I don't regret – so far, I have stayed here permanently for 12 years now – however I shall admit that I can afford a better life-style in LoS than at home, as my average buying power, including taxation benefits, is something like factor 2 or 3 compared to staying home. And I also admit that I'm a "financial migrant", however I could (easily) survive at home...

 

I am British myself and i think it is true we lke to have a whinge from time to time. On the other hand i don't think the UK has much to offer a returning expat.

[CanuckThai]

I really enjoy Thailand, but don't love it unconditionally.  Sit on the fence about exactly how much to invest now and for a future here.  I was sent here about 4 years ago for work, but travel extensively.  My (Thai) wife and I enjoy most of our time here (80%+/-), the rest back home in Canada.  I'm no where near retirement yet (age and financials).    The assets back home are paid for, and no desire to dump them for a retirement (or early) financial boost.  

 

I enjoy sharing my  "Thai lifestyle, experience and people" with the friends and family that come for a visit.  My folks recently retired, and are over the moon that they come for a month or so for a winter vacation in Thailand (compliments of their only kid). 

 

I think a lot of farang forget about, or just don't give a crap, about creating and contributing to their community (local pubs aside).   Not all of course, but a lot of farang assume they are owed a position in their local community here.   I've had great conversations with Thai/farangs, that quietly contribute, not money, but their time or understanding, and enjoy the rewards (no selfies, no press...just enjoy the process and the relationships).   They are not the bitter variety looking to bail.

 

Almost 25(oh...crap) years ago, I was shipped out to the States by the American company I was working for after graduating.  Spent 5 years based in Milwaukee and projects throughout the eastern seaboard and the gulf.  Spent weekends travelling to visit friends and colleagues. Helped on their farms, met their families, went fishing, played sports, cooked a Canadian version of a meal in their kitchen for them, drank my own body weight of crappy Americana beer (when in Rome).....made life long friendships and connections that are solid to this day (seems like yesterday).  Same goes in LOS....

 

If you "pump and dump" life ....you'll reap what you sow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[speckio]

no place is perfect...  

 

I moved from CA... i have some complaints about Thailand but overall happy

 

I live in Bangkok so far my biggest complaint is the air quality...  Sure sometimes the politics and logic in this country make me angry... but then i look at the politics in my home country and think to myself...Maybe thai politics isn't so bad after all... 

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

You stand out, but as a fat wallet, not a sore thumb. We have countless testimonies from farang on the forum of being treated well by Thais and that's been my experience as well. Thais are normally welcoming enough. I find them pleasant to deal with and enjoy having them around, esp. all those lovely ladies. Speaking some Thai helps immensely; problem is, too many expats are too stupid and lazy to learn any and expect the Thais to all learn English for them. Colonial mentality.

 

 

Have you been fingered lately? Need to know the circumstances. The term farang has been discussed here ad nauseam. It isn't derogatory in normal usage. In the West we do commonly say "black person" and "white person, without negative connotation, though it's racial. But being too sensitive can be an obstacle to adaptation to a different culture, yes.

 

 

A number of foreigners will always prefer somewhere other than where another number reside. Australia has the largest number of Brit expats. They mingle well there, except Australians do satirize their usual whinging.

 

I find Thais friendlier and less gruff than Mexicans, for example. And I did get cheated out of my $5 water bottle deposit in Mexico. Plus all that noise disturbance. I could continue. But I could adapt to Mexico same as I have to Thailand. One reason I like Thailand better is that it's more of a challenge. Meeting challenges and overcoming them--I find it rewarding. Others of course very much don't.

 

The difference is then that everywhere else in the world an expat never runs out of money or decides to return home for any reason. Right?

 

Upon arriving in the country, years ago, I forced myself to learn the language, including reading and writing.

Yet, I am still waiting for an interesting conversation with the locals (I am not talking about the business elites, but about the average guy).

 

Here in Isaan, I am always called "farang" by people who don't know me..."fingered" may be exagerated but, for example, members of a family passing by will alert each other saying "look, a farang".

 

I don't consider farang as insulting in itself, but the problem is that it is clearly used to make a distinction between Whites and Asians.

 

If you visit a national park, for example, you will be asked to pay the foreigner price, while if you are from Asian origine, even with a foreign passport, you may well end up being charged the Thai price...as long as you don't open your mouth...

 

As for America, I was not really thinking about Mexico, especially these days.

Many foreigners live a pleasant life in Argentina (where the local currency constantly depreciates instead of appreciating) or Chile, for example.

Another much appreciated place by retired foreigners nowadays is South Portugal, where the cost of living is becoming cheaper than in Thailand where the prices of everything, starting with real estate, are climbing vertically.

 

Otherwise, I agree that people can find themselves in trouble anywhere, and that some of them will never be happy, no matter the place.

 

Finally, generally speaking, people who are a bit short financially may be wise to think twice before chosing a country like Thailand for retirement, because of the currency exchange issue mentionned above...consider that the euro has gone from 52 to 37 baht during the last decade or so, an almost 30% depreciation...where will it be in 10 years?

[starky]

18 hours ago, Bangkokhatter said:

Seems to me it's those posters who have already left that appear the most bitter.

 

Threads full of them, telling us that stay, how bad Thailand is and how great their lives are back home, if it's that great why do they waste their time posting on a forum all about Thailand ?

Spot on and for some reason these same disgruntled people continue to post on here months and years after they have left Thailand.

[HAKAPALITA]

1 hour ago, CanuckThai said:

I really enjoy Thailand, but don't love it unconditionally.  Sit on the fence about exactly how much to invest now and for a future here.  I was sent here about 4 years ago for work, but travel extensively.  My (Thai) wife and I enjoy most of our time here (80%+/-), the rest back home in Canada.  I'm no where near retirement yet (age and financials).    The assets back home are paid for, and no desire to dump them for a retirement (or early) financial boost.  

 

I enjoy sharing my  "Thai lifestyle, experience and people" with the friends and family that come for a visit.  My folks recently retired, and are over the moon that they come for a month or so for a winter vacation in Thailand (compliments of their only kid). 

 

I think a lot of farang forget about, or just don't give a crap, about creating and contributing to their community (local pubs aside).   Not all of course, but a lot of farang assume they are owed a position in their local community here.   I've had great conversations with Thai/farangs, that quietly contribute, not money, but their time or understanding, and enjoy the rewards (no selfies, no press...just enjoy the process and the relationships).   They are not the bitter variety looking to bail.

 

Almost 25(oh...crap) years ago, I was shipped out to the States by the American company I was working for after graduating.  Spent 5 years based in Milwaukee and projects throughout the eastern seaboard and the gulf.  Spent weekends travelling to visit friends and colleagues. Helped on their farms, met their families, went fishing, played sports, cooked a Canadian version of a meal in their kitchen for them, drank my own body weight of crappy Americana beer (when in Rome).....made life long friendships and connections that are solid to this day (seems like yesterday).  Same goes in LOS....

 

If you "pump and dump" life ....you'll reap what you sow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Canadians dont have freedom, they have to go back and kiss a French Arse to get their pension here.Even old retired Russians dont have to go back, or Brits.

[Russell17au]

31 minutes ago, starky said:

Spot on and for some reason these same disgruntled people continue to post on here months and years after they have left Thailand.

I agree that the most disgruntled people are those that have left Thailand because they did nothing but whinge while they were here and now that they have gone they just continually come back on here and continue to whinge and try to make out how bad things are here.

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

I agree that the most disgruntled people are those that have left Thailand because they did nothing but whinge while they were here and now that they have gone they just continually come back on here and continue to whinge and try to make out how bad things are here.

Thats probably because they are also miserable back home and now even more miserable being back home than before they originally left for Thailand, because they have no longer got the dream of moving to Thailand to cheer them up

[seancbk]

On 29/03/2018 at 2:11 PM, Peterw42 said:

Depends who you ask or where you get your information from. 90% of people I know like it here, dont regret moving here and are in no hurry to go home.

There is a small vocal minority who appear not to like it and want everyone else not to like it. There is often a lot of negative sentiment on Thaivisa etc but I dont think its indicative of the wider expat community.

Maybe pose the question as a survey.

 

Agreed.   Every single person I know personally in Bangkok loves it here.  Then again none of them are retired, most have their own successful businesses or are in high paying jobs, aside from a couple of teachers, although I also know teachers working in the big International schools and earning good money.  


 

[JSixpack]

56 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Yet, I am still waiting for an interesting conversation with the locals (I am not talking about the business elites, but about the average guy).

 

If you live in rural Isaan, then you'll have about as interesting a conversation with those locals as you will in the rural USA or anywhere. Simple people out there concerned with families, local news, and getting by. In that case you'll have to learn to share their interests, gossip, and appreciate characters--they can be pretty funny.

 

Quote

Here in Isaan, I am always called "farang" by people who don't know me..."fingered" may be exagerated but, for example, members of a family passing by will alert each other saying "look, a farang".

 

I don't consider farang as insulting in itself, but the problem is that it is clearly used to make a distinction between Whites and Asians.

 

If you visit a national park, for example, you will be asked to pay the foreigner price, while if you are from Asian origine, even with a foreign passport, you may well end up being charged the Thai price...as long as you don't open your mouth...

 

Well, the fact is you aren't Thai and that means you do need to be treated differently, as most farangs agree except they want to be treated better. Most farangs don't want a bunch of chilies routinely dumped into their *ka pao gai--for a culinary example. A Brit might find that in Australia he's lumped into the "whinging Pom" category before even gets off the plane. Similarly in the UK

 

Outsiders aren't welcome, say villagers

When villagers were asked for innovative ways to improve their community, it was hardly the anticipated answer but it was certainly clear: “No outsiders.”

     --https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7909620/Outsiders-arent-welcome-say-villagers.html 

 

Nor are the national parks etc. going to bother checking everyone's passports and ID cards, which would include the Thais. But you've ignored the fact that if you show a Thai driver's license you get the Thai price, right? I have done so before and explained I've lived in Thailand a long time. So the object isn't actually to express racism. Have to suck that one up but hardly a reason that you have to leave Thailand! Merely a silly excuse.

 

Asians are in general ethnocentric. But that has positive aspects in that it's easy to travel around and enjoy distinct Asian cultures. Thailand is a good place to be based then.

 

And I really enjoy overcoming the farang stereotype a Thai might have, get a smile, and enjoy a pleasant encounter in the future. In Pattaya that's a fine challenge as the idiot farang tourists have created such a negative impression. I've found Thais so relieved and friendly once they realize I'm not one of the idiots and we can joke around.

 

 

Quote

Another much appreciated place by retired foreigners nowadays is South Portugal, where the cost of living is becoming cheaper than in Thailand where the prices of everything, starting with real estate, are climbing vertically.

 

Otherwise, I agree that people can find themselves in trouble anywhere, and that some of them will never be happy, no matter the place.

 

Let's listen to some expats whinging in Portugal.

 

Whatever happened to the noise abatement act?

I KNOW it's summer,I KNOW everyone is outside having fun! Actually the tourists aren't the problem..It's the wretched services..Maybe it's me?but has anyone else noticed how b****y noisy all the garden equipment is these days.?We no longer use our gardeners because quite frankly-they don't garden!.What they do is TRIM and BLOW. They use industrial size hellishly noisy machines to reduce shrubs,hedges and even some trees into bald submission.Ditto for the very few lawns we have around us. They don't coordinate this activity either, they do it on every single day of the week bar sunday,and at every concievable time from 7.30 am onwards.I know I sound like a GOW,but at least I know it will magically stop at the end of the season.The poor tourists have PAID for this awful intrusion. This area is known as the Areio do Sonho..Place of dreams...hardly!!!

Anyone else as fed up as I am over this ever increasing mechanical intrusion?

 

GeniB, NOISE!!!

 

Why are chops as thin as paper here? And where is the Fish n Chips? I have not yet found a fish that I can fry. After all the water has drained, it falls to pieces as they become so thin. All the congelado fish are 50% water that you pay for.

 

Ukkram Male, Sooooo disappointed

 

Last week I got a massive craving for a fray bentos steak and kidney pie so ater searching all week I found one in apolina omg i couldnt get home quick enough once cooked along with boiled potato's and gardens peas some bisto gravy i am drooling so bad but when i started eating it was not what i remember it was bad!!!

 

Ronnie the Painter, Sooooo disappointed

 

Quote

 

Finally, generally speaking, people who are a bit short financially may be wise to think twice before chosing a country like Thailand for retirement, because of the currency exchange issue mentionned above...consider that the euro has gone from 52 to 37 baht during the last decade or so, an almost 30% depreciation...where will it be in 10 years?

 

If you're moving to a foreign country then you've gotta take currency fluctuations into account. There are a number of good ways to do that. Unfortunately many expats don't plan well for this obvious issue and congratulate themselves keeping all their assets priced in a depreciating currency. Which would be OK the asset appreciation is significantly greater than the currency depreciation but it seems it often isn't.

 

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

 

Many an expat leaves simply because he needs the "free" healthcare back in the nanny state or the free education for the kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do admit to going back to the nanny state of Australia for medical procedures, because there they cost me nothing but the airfare. Always can't wait to get back to Thailand. I can feel myself relaxing as the plane lands in Chiang Mai.

Your comment about learning Thai is soooo valid. While I'll never be fluent, it amazes me that some retirees expect everything to go smoothly when they refuse to learn any Thai. Don't they realise it's a reasonable antidote to Alzheimer's?

I have to admire the social structure of the Thais. If you are family, they will always support you. I asked my Thai GF ( 8 years now ) what she thought about cleaning up after me if I became incontinent. She said " No problem, I can do". Try asking a Western partner that question.

 

[Russell17au]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I do admit to going back to the nanny state of Australia for medical procedures, because there they cost me nothing but the airfare. Always can't wait to get back to Thailand. I can feel myself relaxing as the plane lands in Chiang Mai.

Your comment about learning Thai is soooo valid. While I'll never be fluent, it amazes me that some retirees expect everything to go smoothly when they refuse to learn any Thai. Don't they realise it's a reasonable antidote to Alzheimer's?

I have to admire the social structure of the Thais. If you are family, they will always support you. I asked my Thai GF ( 8 years now ) what she thought about cleaning up after me if I became incontinent. She said " No problem, I can do". Try asking a Western partner that question.

 

they would send you to a nursing home to wither and die on your own.

Thailand is a great place to live and I know we all have a bitch and a gripe about the road carnage and nobody enforcing the road rules but This Is Thailand

[Brunolem]

34 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

If you're moving to a foreign country then you've gotta take currency fluctuations into account. There are a number of good ways to do that. Unfortunately many expats don't plan well for this obvious issue and congratulate themselves keeping all their assets priced in a depreciating currency. Which would be OK the asset appreciation is significantly greater than the currency depreciation but it seems it often isn't.

 

Easier said than done.

Who would, could, have anticipated in 2005 that the euro would go down by 30% within the next 10 or 12 years?

Especially since the euro had gone up by 30% between 2000 and 2005...

And where is it going from there?

Edited March 30, 2018 by Brunolem

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Canadians dont have freedom, they have to go back and kiss a French Arse to get their pension here.Even old retired Russians dont have to go back, or Brits.

What a Crock !

Guess what the can part of my username stands for.

Are you from there ? Or just another under-the-bridge dweller speaking from the nickel seats ?

[HAKAPALITA]

9 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

What a Crock !

Guess what the can part of my username stands for.

Are you from there ? Or just another under-the-bridge dweller speaking from the nickel seats ?

Nah, just cant stand those french bablin <deleted>,

[CanuckThai]

2 hours ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Canadians dont have freedom, they have to go back and kiss a French Arse to get their pension here.Even old retired Russians dont have to go back, or Brits.

Not sure of exact Canadian Pension Plan requirements.   I don't think many Canadians are retired here in Thailand, on old age security pension alone.  It wouldn't meet Visa financial requirements, let alone a plane ticket home.  Most are sorted, and  (as anywhere else) have multiple pensions (private +2 government),  +(RRSP, 401k) investments, income and savings.

 

Canadian government will send you Thai baht....555

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-international/benefit-amount.html

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Some people on Thai Visa seem to think that just because some of us comment and complain about many of the things that go on here, we do not like living here and would, if possible, go back to our native country.  Often, nothing could be further from the truth. 

Back home, we are educated to examine everything around us and to constructively criticise when things are not right. That is a life-long habit which is  effective in bringing about change and which is difficult to switch off, so we continue to do it in Thailand, even though we know that, coming from an ex-pat, it can have little or no effect. 

The fact that Thais appear to  be taught NOT to be critical of events around them surely is one of the main reasons why  things are slow to change and why the country does not move forward.  The apparent apathy towards the horrific level of roads accidents, widespread corruption and towards the absence of true democracy are just three obvious examples.  However, airing our views and concerns on these matters, merely shows that we are interested in the country and are not looking at Thailand through rose-coloured spectacles and does not mean that we are unhappy here.

 

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Easier said than done.

Who would, could, have anticipated in 2005 that the euro would go down by 30% within the next 10 or 12 years?

Especially since the euro had gone up by 30% between 2000 and 2005...

And where is it going from there?

 

Most easily you'd start investing early in an established global investment trust that would hold assets in various countries including Asia. Let the pros make money from the fluctuations. So though the euro went down 30%, JPMorgan Global Growth & Inc, for example, went up 203%.  You're good.

 

[mpyre]

18 hours ago, HAKAPALITA said:

I often wonder how this nanny state thing has mushroomed into that the Men who made the state great cant to live there in peace..New Zealand has gone down that road too.

Because we now live in a Gynocentric world...

[poanoi]

i dont know of any better place to live than pattaya,

but the visa hassle was detrimental to my back/health,

so in that respect, i wish i had moved to caribbean instead,

where i would not have encountered visa hassle.

now due to visa hassle my back has deteriorated too much to relocate,

i'm stuck here in non stop pain until death ends it

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by poanoi

[StevieAus]

On 3/29/2018 at 7:48 PM, EVENKEEL said:

Selling off your property in homeland to fiancé new life in Thailand is definitely not a sound move. What seems like an adventure slowly turns into extreme boredom and isolation. The old fellow who builds retirement home in rice paddy in Issan is a prime candidate for resentment if he has spent most of his cash money and can't afford to get up and leave.

No offense to those of you who are happy and content in this lifestyle. 

I would suggest to you that the reason most expats move here is because they are unhappy with their lifestyle in their home country,so why would they want to return?

Perhaps living in a rice paddy in Issan might be boring but I don’t know of anyone in that situation.

I had a very comfortable lifestyle in Sydney but would not swap for what I enjoy here in the North.

Extreme boredom and isolation is not experienced by me

Life is what you make it.

[Sandy Freckle]

4 hours ago, poanoi said:

 

i'm stuck here in non stop pain until death ends it

 

Yes indeed that must be 1 bitter pillow to swallow !

[giddyup]

5 hours ago, poanoi said:

i dont know of any better place to live than pattaya,

but the visa hassle was detrimental to my back/health,

so in that respect, i wish i had moved to caribbean instead,

where i would not have encountered visa hassle.

now due to visa hassle my back has deteriorated too much to relocate,

i'm stuck here in non stop pain until death ends it

 

Why visa hassle and how did that affect your back? If you comply with the conditions of a visa it's no hassle at all.

[poanoi]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Why visa hassle and how did that affect your back? If you comply with the conditions of a visa it's no hassle at all.

i wasnt 50, so i had to travel to laos each year for another ED visa,

plus sitting in a school chair.

as a last effort to dodge pain from visa run, i moved to cambodia,

thinking i would save some traveling, and, well i did, (2 trips i think)

but i could not fathom that cambodia is the land of no quality mattresses !

i was so messed up after the first night that i have never recovered,

now i have unbearable pain every second of my life

Edited March 31, 2018 by poanoi

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:04 PM, tutsiwarrior said:

even with all escape facilities available, ie, nice house available in the west, good pension income etc...one has to ask oneself if what one plans to return to is what one left many years ago...

 

I think not, realistically speaking...looks we're buggered all the way around...and I ain't just talkin' about the price of in - n - out burgers...

 

 

The appeal of overseas for me was as much driven by dissatisfaction with my home country as much by satisfaction with elsewhere. The country of my youth has been fundamentally changed by trendyism, greed, worship of money, and excessive PC. Not only that, but it has become too expensive for poor people to have a decent life in.

 

One thing that the OP does not appear to consider, are the number of expats that were divorced and came into a large sum of money when they got their 50% of the house sale profit. That was when ordinary people were able to buy houses, which may have changed recently.

They were able to move to LOS and build a house for the young lovely, buy cars etc, but when it's all gone wrong once the money tree died, they have nothing back home, and nothing in LOS.

 

I see no help forthcoming, and to be frank, the future does not look good for many expats.

Depressing.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Easier said than done.

Who would, could, have anticipated in 2005 that the euro would go down by 30% within the next 10 or 12 years?

Especially since the euro had gone up by 30% between 2000 and 2005...

And where is it going from there?

Perhaps those that realise everything can go down as well as up.

Essentially, the rise in the Euro was an anomaly, not permanent.

I remember the day I arrived in LOS on holiday that the exchange rate was 99 baht to 1 pound Sterling. Didn't last long and reduced to 70, but even that was a great time. Eventually the rate went back to what it had been originally, around 45.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I have to admire the social structure of the Thais. If you are family, they will always support you. I asked my Thai GF ( 8 years now ) what she thought about cleaning up after me if I became incontinent. She said " No problem, I can do". Try asking a Western partner that question.

After I broke my arm, and had to go to hospital every day for dressings, my wife resented having to take me. I have no doubt she wouldn't have cleaned up after me, if I became incontinent.

We all want to believe the idea that all Thais take care of their family, but for some of us, that ideal is not a reality.

[Brunolem]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The appeal of overseas for me was as much driven by dissatisfaction with my home country as much by satisfaction with elsewhere. The country of my youth has been fundamentally changed by trendyism, greed, worship of money, and excessive PC. Not only that, but it has become too expensive for poor people to have a decent life in.

 

I see no help forthcoming, and to be frank, the future does not look good for many expats.

Depressing.

I will try to comment on your 3 successive posts all at once.

 

I could add the weather to your list of reasons to move in Thailand where, unfortunately, the local weather is becoming more and more unpredictable, and seasons are all mixed together...

 

The future doesn't look good for expats, and currency exchange may be a major factor in that.

Since many expats don't live out a portfolio on Wall Street, but rather from a moderate retirement pension, an exchange rate fluctuation can quickly wreak havoc in their daily life.

Considering the global economic developments, especially coming from China (BRI and else), it appears likely that this part of the world is going to be flushed with Chinese money, through major investments (high speed rail, roads...), thus pushing both the local currencies and prices higher.

Meanwhile, Western retirees will keep on receiving the same amount of money in their depreciating currency.

Within the next 5 to 10 years, things could become very difficult for those who have just enough now.

 

Given the major uncertainties, worldwide, these days, it is very difficult to make a long term decision, especially when it comes to move to another country.

 

 

[InMyShadow]

Why would OP think that all expats have property?

Most expats I met didn't have a bean to their name

[Gruff]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Given the major uncertainties, worldwide, these days, it is very difficult to make a long term decision, especially when it comes to move to another country.

 

 

One standard maybe to set your financial requirements goals to be enough to live and survive ok in the most expensive of countries.