Thai students score less than half by average in ONET exam

[Acharn]

I don't suppose the Education Ministry will accept this, but this is proof the test is invalid. Standardized tests in the United States are, too, but they are usually tested and changed if the victims test subjects do not score as well as they are supposed to. What these test scores mean is that the subject matter being tested is not the subject matter they were taught. It may also mean many of the answers given by the test makers were wrong, or the questions may have been ambiguous or misled the students.What these test scores do not mean is that Thai students are stupid, or lazy, or ignorant. I expect many posters will claim that's what the tests show, but those are people who have never taught school and also never had to construct tests to see how well their students were learning the material being presented to them. Constructing a valid test for any subject is hard.

[starky]

14 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Sooooooo

 

The average Thai student failed in every subject at school.

 

There is a simple equation for the benefit of education in a country; if a country has a good education system, it will have a good future (whatever that may be). if a country does not have a good education system, then it will not have a good future.

 

Again; the average Thai student failed in every subject at school.

 

God help Thailand.

 

Yep the average Thai student failed in every school subject...including their own language. Boggles the mind.

[DrTuner]

While failing is bad enough, failing in a test that itself is a complete failure is a double whammy. Outside Thai government schools, nobody seems to care about ONET as they know it's practically useless. My kids just took CAT4 assessments, that's something that is recognized and not surprisingly has nothing to do with rote memorization.

[greeneking]

They should know these words very well even if other subjects are weak.

Is The National Anthem still twice a day? (translation from Wikipedia)

 

'Thailand embraces in its bosom all people of Thai blood.

Every inch of Thailand belongs to the Thais

long maintained its sovereignty,

Because the Thais have always been united.

The Thai people are peace-loving,

But they are no cowards at war.

They will allow no-one to rob them of their independence,

Nor shall they suffer.

All Thais are ready to give up every drop of blood

For the nation's safety, freedom and progress. Chai Yo! (Hurrah)^'

 

^{...........Lots for discussion here for a brave/ suicidal pupil!}

[Eligius]

2 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

They cannot properly discuss their own history and geography as it is against the law.

 

That's a major problem right there. 

 

You are so right, Father. In fact, there are numerous things the students are not allowed to discuss or analyse. As one poster has pointed out today, even the Thai national anthem would be taboo for serious critical analysis and comment.

 

And then there is the great Unspeakable ....!

[Srikcir]

13 hours ago, Acharn said:

I don't suppose the Education Ministry will accept this, but this is proof the test is invalid. Standardized tests in the United States are, too, but they are usually tested and changed if the victims test subjects do not score as well as they are supposed to. What these test scores mean is that the subject matter being tested is not the subject matter they were taught. It may also mean many of the answers given by the test makers were wrong, or the questions may have been ambiguous or misled the students.What these test scores do not mean is that Thai students are stupid, or lazy, or ignorant. I expect many posters will claim that's what the tests show, but those are people who have never taught school and also never had to construct tests to see how well their students were learning the material being presented to them. Constructing a valid test for any subject is hard.

Let's review again what the OECD PISA test means (not to say there aren't other international tests):

• applied consistently to 72 countries - not unique to Thailand, USA, Singapore, etc.

• results shows educators, policy makers and the interested public how various national education systems are similar and different – and what that means for students

• provides country comparative progress on achieving superior education
• examines how well students can extrapolate from what they have learned and can apply that knowledge in unfamiliar settings, both in and outside of school

• offers insights for education policy and practice, and that helps monitor trends in students’ acquisition of knowledge and skills across countries and in different demographic subgroups within each country

 

"PISA cannot identify cause-and-effect relationships between policies/practices and student outcomes."

https://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisa-2015-results-in-focus.pdf

So in summary in part, when you say "What these test scores mean is that the subject matter being tested is not the subject matter they were taught," you are incorrect.

 

No doubt if the Thai Minister of Education were left to his own devices, he could design a Thai-Style Test wherein Thai students will show a superior memorization of Thai culture & tradition, Buddhism and LINE/Facebook. But such testing will not contribute to a national sustainable economic progress through the nation's educational system. A system which PISA results shows is presently inadequate. 

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Srikcir
formatting

[HerbalEd]

On 4/3/2018 at 5:29 AM, Mango Bob said:

I have seen questions from past test for English.  They should be firing those who come up with the test.  I am sure other sections are no better.

Are you saying the tests are too difficult or too easy?

[yllorco]

My kids rank 3 and 5 in their Grade 3 and 5 respectively. I hope they get more than 50% on ONET.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sonhia]

No surprise.

 

Money seems to be more important.

 

 

[billzant]

yllorco, go online and find an ONET test. Get your children to do the test under test conditions. Check it yourself, then you will see. "I have seen questions from past test for English.  They should be firing those who come up with the test.  I am sure other sections are no better." In my view if a student is getting 50% on the Pratom test they know English well.

[Sir Dude]

At high school, most Thai students are too busy being brainwashed by the system to actually learn anything.

[watcharacters]

On 4/3/2018 at 5:19 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

Sooooooo

 

The average Thai student failed in every subject at school.

 

There is a simple equation for the benefit of education in a country; if a country has a good education system, it will have a good future (whatever that may be). if a country does not have a good education system, then it will not have a good future.

 

Again; the average Thai student failed in every subject at school.

 

God help Thailand.

 

 

 

I think rather THAILAND needs to help itself!

 

 

 

[Thian]

55 minutes ago, billzant said:

yllorco, go online and find an ONET test. Get your children to do the test under test conditions. Check it yourself, then you will see. "I have seen questions from past test for English.  They should be firing those who come up with the test.  I am sure other sections are no better." In my view if a student is getting 50% on the Pratom test they know English well.

Indeed, the test is ridiculous.

 

http://www.english-room.com/onet/onet_58.pdf

[rebo]

5 minutes ago, Thian said:

Indeed, the test is ridiculous.

The test is ridicilously easy but I see nothing wrong. The answers are clear, and not misleading at all. An average 10 yo child should be able to give the right answers.

[DavisH]

On 03/04/2018 at 6:00 AM, Prairieboy said:

No wonder every shop owner needs a calculator for the simplest transaction. 

BUT...calculators are not allowed in O-Net exams.....go figure. On would think they have had enough practice with finger counting lol. 

 

I would bet that the majority of students score poorly on these exams because such exams are really only testing the top 20% of students. I have copies of most of the O-Net M6 maths exams. The level is generally difficult and I believe most Thai teachers, especially in rural schools, are not challenging students to the level required on these exams. 

The regular textbooks that cover the Thai curriculum do not go to the depth of the questions on the O-Net exams.

This is one reason that Thai students will go to cram schools and/or try to get into schools like Triam Udom Suksa - that basically drill students to pass entrance exams for 3 years. Schools like these are seen as tickets into their chosen university courses. So an average of 28% means most of the country guessed the answers on the maths exam. 

 

Thailand still has a long long way to go, but it involves educating the masses, not just those that can afford it. This is how Estonia has improved their education system and now rank very highly in PISA.

 

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎03‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 9:47 PM, Father Fintan Stack said:

They cannot properly discuss their own history and geography as it is against the law.

 

That's a major problem right there. 

 

Own history is a problem in most countries. Netherlands - Indonesian war, UK - India, USA - native American's, ......

[DavisH]

19 minutes ago, rebo said:

The test is ridicilously easy but I see nothing wrong. The answers are clear, and not misleading at all. An average 10 yo child should be able to give the right answers.

I would hope the Thai translation is NOT provided on the original test lol

[strewth mick]

On ‎02‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 11:31 PM, Get Real said:

Unfortunately there are too many factors that complete a soup of disaster in this area. That the education programme, and the level of knowledge and common sense to solve problems doesn´t even exist in the techers mindset we already know. That´s only one part of the soup, though.

 

The country has an ingrained lack of disciplin, and an even greater lack of respect for human beeings, lifes and moral values.

 

As for the disciplin, that starts already at a very early age. Here you can, in almost all areas, see children from the age of 2-3 years old. They are running free in the street, only to be taken care of by their 1 or 2 year older siter or brother. Where is the parents? Oh, I can tell you! They are deeply connected to their mobile phone screen, checking up everything that goes on in their little virtual kingdom. In other words, they have totally forgot about what the children needs from start, in form of a stable family with moral values and disciplin in all areas needed.

 

When the brain is mush from start, the knife cuts very deep.

Well what do you know?

 

You are having a moan on this thread too.

[watcharacters]

16 hours ago, rebo said:

The test is ridicilously easy but I see nothing wrong. The answers are clear, and not misleading at all. An average 10 yo child should be able to give the right answers.

 

 

I appreciate your post and claim of test ease.

 

There's  nothing wrong with the test just as you claim.

 

The matter facing the Kingdom is educating the masses to an acceptably  low level  for those running the government and economy.     It is intentional that Thai people have low education standards.   The ignorance of the average Thai person is not his  fault.    He/she  simply learned little during the  so called education given by the Kingdom.

 

But educating  the masses presents a threat to those in charge.    Before it can happen there will need to be heroes who sacrifice  with abandon.

 

Can that ever happen?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

On 3/4/2561 at 12:14 PM, lvr181 said:

And that is exactly what feudal leaders want along with a low education level so that the citizens cannot reason about why society could/should change for the betterment of ALL and not just for the elite and powerful! 

I take your point and I agree it's probably true, the elite ruling class here has certainly done a number on it's citizens, but I think it's fair to say we have a fair few indoctrinated fools in the West, who lack the respect for their elders, the law of the land and the community spirit/civic pride that is demonstrated by a great many Thais, but NOT ALL of course. For me this is an area where they edge us Whities. We have lost all of that in favour of the such highly praised 'individualism' - which is often just code for being an uninformed, libtard loudmouth who is too aware of their so called 'human rights'.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

On 3/4/2561 at 11:22 AM, Expatthailover said:

great post

Cheers mate!

[owl sees all]

On 4/3/2018 at 4:29 AM, Mango Bob said:

I have seen questions from past test for English.  They should be firing those who come up with the test.  I am sure other sections are no better.

Please give an example MB. I am English. I should be able to understand any questions.

 

 

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I take your point and I agree it's probably true, the elite ruling class here has certainly done a number on it's citizens, but I think it's fair to say we have a fair few indoctrinated fools in the West, who lack the respect for their elders, the law of the land and the community spirit/civic pride that is demonstrated by a great many Thais, but NOT ALL of course. For me this is an area where they edge us Whities. We have lost all of that in favour of the such highly praised 'individualism' - which is often just code for being an uninformed, libtard loudmouth who is too aware of their so called 'human rights'.

Individualism doesn't equate with being uninformed, just the opposite but I can agree with the lack of community spirit and additionally a personal lack of responsibility and common decency. Rule of law and human rights however are an integral part of Western society, it's what really makes us great, not atomic bombs and aircraft carriers.

[billzant]

I take your point and I agree it's probably true, the elite ruling class here has certainly done a number on it's citizens, but I think it's fair to say we have a fair few indoctrinated fools in the West, who lack the respect for their elders, the law of the land and the community spirit/civic pride that is demonstrated by a great many Thais, but NOT ALL of course. For me this is an area where they edge us Whities. We have lost all of that in favour of the such highly praised 'individualism' - which is often just code for being an uninformed, libtard loudmouth who is too aware of their so called 'human rights'.

 

More than a fair few. At least Thailand education doesn't start wars for profit.

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

43 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Individualism doesn't equate with being uninformed, just the opposite but I can agree with the lack of community spirit and additionally a personal lack of responsibility and common decency. Rule of law and human rights however are an integral part of Western society, it's what really makes us great, not atomic bombs and aircraft carriers.

I agree, although mighty navies, merchant and militarised did help us become the greatest trading nations in the world and are the foundation of our modern/historic wealth. I use the term 'individualism' loosely here, as opposed to 'collectivism' in the context of Asian societies. The entitled, spoiled and uninformed number in their millions in the West and they lack some of the RESPECT that is demonstrated in Thailand by some of it's citizens - more, I'd wager, than in western societies.

Edited April 10, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Acharn]

On 4/4/2018 at 8:45 AM, Srikcir said:

Let's review again what the OECD PISA test means (not to say there aren't other international tests):

• applied consistently to 72 countries - not unique to Thailand, USA, Singapore, etc.

• results shows educators, policy makers and the interested public how various national education systems are similar and different – and what that means for students

• provides country comparative progress on achieving superior education
• examines how well students can extrapolate from what they have learned and can apply that knowledge in unfamiliar settings, both in and outside of school

• offers insights for education policy and practice, and that helps monitor trends in students’ acquisition of knowledge and skills across countries and in different demographic subgroups within each country

 

"PISA cannot identify cause-and-effect relationships between policies/practices and student outcomes."

https://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisa-2015-results-in-focus.pdf

So in summary in part, when you say "What these test scores mean is that the subject matter being tested is not the subject matter they were taught," you are incorrect.

 

No doubt if the Thai Minister of Education were left to his own devices, he could design a Thai-Style Test wherein Thai students will show a superior memorization of Thai culture & tradition, Buddhism and LINE/Facebook. But such testing will not contribute to a national sustainable economic progress through the nation's educational system. A system which PISA results shows is presently inadequate. 

 

Excuse me, are you saying the Thai Ministry of Education's ONET test is the OECD PISA? I do not think that is the case.

 

"So in summary in part, when you say "What these test scores mean is that the subject matter being tested is not the subject matter they were taught," you are incorrect." ??? I happen to believe Thai people are no less capable of learning than any other ethnic group. If they were taught the subject matter, they would, I believe, remember it as well as any other ethnic group. Therefore I infer that they were not taught that subject matter. Can you tell me where my reasoning is going astray? This, by the way, is the most common reason why students fail tests, and why teachers need to conduct tests and quizzes throughout the year, to see if they are succeeding in teaching their students what they intended to teach their students. The curriculum from the Thai ministry of education is not likely to be the same as the curriculum in the OECD countries, so what is taught will not be the same, and a test standardized for the OECD student population will not have meaningful results.