Shinawatra siblings ‘should be ashamed’, says Prayut

[sjaak327]

Just now, ginjag said:

Oh for Pete's sake,  bye.------you should be far more worried than me if these posts were intercepted, your said honesty about the PM is  relentless.  my point is as always-----good governance is what Thailand needs.  have fun with the others that disagree with you.

What has good goverance has to do with anything, does he provide that ?  My point should be clear for any but the most ignorant. I leave it up to you what I really think about you and your posts. 

 

As to worried about post being intercepted, I am not, I believe in freedom of speech. 

 

[Skeptic7]

25 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

No what I am trying to say goes right over your head. How would you feel if guests in your country of origin are pushing for an illegal power grab just because they don't like the people that were voted in by the majority of the electorate, you would be screaming to them to go back to their own country. How would this be any different. If guest don't respect the law of the land, I see no reason why they should not be deported. 

NO it doesn't come close to going over my head. You specifically stated that you are in favor of deporting foreigners that favor the Junta over a specific PM in the past...a differing view than yours. PLEASE name one foreigner or even one loose example of any foreigner or foreign group pushing for or promoting any coup or illegal power grab. Save you some time...you can't.

 

While I agree with you that foreigners should stay far away from getting personally involved or activism in local politics, as it would be stupid and most likely dangerous. People here on TV are expressing opinions about a country they live in...love...like...care about...loathe...whatever...that is all.

 

To best of my obviously limited knowledge...no one here is trying to influence anyone other than the opinions of other foreigners here on TV. Not to mention, one couldn't even if one was stupid enough to want to. Just some interesting and fun debate. Maybe learn something...probably not. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Skeptic7

[sjaak327]

8 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

NO it doesn't come close to going over my head. You specifically stated that you are in favor of deporting foreigners that favor the Junta over a specific PM in the past...a differing view than yours. PLEASE name one foreigner or even one loose example of any foreigner or foreign group pushing for or promoting any coup or illegal power grab. Save you some time...you can't.

 

While I agree with you that foreigners should stay far away from getting personally involved or activism in local politics, as it would be stupid and most likely dangerous. People here on TV are expressing opinions about a country they live in...love...like...care about...loathe...whatever...that is all.

 

To best of my obviously limited knowledge...no one here is trying to influence anyone other than the opinions of other foreigners here on TV. Not to mention, one couldn't even if one was stupid enough to want to. Just some interesting and fun debate. Maybe learn something...probably not. 

No I did not state just that, I stated this:

 

"I already said several times, foreigners supporting this junta are the worst guests a country could receive, it shows an utter disrespect of the citizens of the country they are a guest in. 

 

Please note the reference to being a guest and respecting the citizens of the country of choice. I do believe this to be the key to what I was trying to say. Like I said, it went over your head. 

 

it obviously has nothing to do with a preference for a certain politician or a political party, supporting unlawfull coups is something entirely different. It cannot be allowed, because it is against the law. It's not really hard to understand.

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by sjaak327

[Artisi]

3 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

NO it doesn't come close to going over my head. You specifically stated that you are in favor of deporting foreigners that favor the Junta over a specific PM in the past...a differing view than yours. PLEASE name one foreigner or even one loose example of any foreigner or foreign group pushing for or promoting any coup or illegal power grab. Save you some time...you can't.

 

While I agree with you that foreigners should stay far away from getting personally involved or activism in local politics, as it would be stupid and most likely dangerous. People here on TV are expressing opinions about a country they live in...love...like...care about...loathe...whatever...that is all.

 

To best of my obviously limited knowledge...no one here is trying to influence anyone other than the opinions of other foreigners here on TV. Not to mention, one couldn't even if one was stupid enough to want to. Just some interesting and fun debate. Maybe learn something...probably not. 

correct, what we as outsiders think is or might be of interest to other "outsiders" , but what we think doesn't count in the slightest and has absolutely no influence on Thai politics - because farangs know nothing and Thailand is different.  

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

IYO...fine and great for Patts back then. Not at all the case here in The Capital. There are plenty of other reasons to berate and hate Thaksin. I'll leave that to the educated Thais.

 

As a foreigner living here...it sucked in a major way. And that is certainly good reason for this "farang" to berate the corrupt businessman turned corrupt politician! 

It's the only reason you gave in the post I replied to and the only reason I was discussing here. IMO a mightly flimsy reason to dislike a politician.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, sjaak327 said:

I am not slagging anyone, what I said is the truth. He is a lawbreaker, and he should be utterly ashamed to rob the Thai electorate of their rights.

 

I already said several times, foreigners supporting this junta are the worst guests a country could receive, it shows an utter disrespect of the citizens of the country they are a guest in. 

 

I for one, would support deportation of such guests. 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

No I did not state just that, I stated this:

 

"I already said several times, foreigners supporting this junta are the worst guests a country could receive, it shows an utter disrespect of the citizens of the country they are a guest in. 

 

Please note the reference to being a guest and respecting the citizens of the country of choice. I do believe this to be the key to what I was trying to say. Like I said, it went over your head. 

 

it obviously has nothing to do with a preference for a certain politician or a political party, supporting unlawfull coups is something entirely different. It cannot be allowed, because it is against the law. It's not really hard to understand.

 

You seem to have "forgotten" the closing statement 2 quotes up. YOU stated exactly what YOU said you didn't state.

 

"I for one, would support deportation of such guests"

 

The only thing going over your head is honesty. There...I've called you out because you said something and then said you didn't say it. My post will probably be deleted for calling you...disingenuous to put it nicely...but it is the truth. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Skeptic7

[sjaak327]

3 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

It is funny...your backpedaling and rationalizing what you actually said. 

No I am not, you claimed I said I support deporting foreigners that support the junta, I never said I did not write that, I said and I did not post JUST that, I included a rational for the reasons why I support deportation, right in the Original post, one that you either did not read or did not understand, nothing more and nothing less. The rationalizing shouldn't have been necessary for a good reader, but apparently you need it, as you missed it the first time. And I am most certainly not backpedaling, I stand firm behind what I said intially, but only after the whole statement, not the cherry picking you choose to attack me with.

 

And you were talking about honesty ?

Edited April 4, 2018 by sjaak327

[LomSak27]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 3:41 AM, snoop1130 said:

We cannot enforce our country’s laws overseas. If foreign countries do not send them back [for prosecution in Thailand], that’s it. Do you get it?” Prayut told reporters at Government House on Tuesday

Extradite, Extradite, Extradite    Lets get this wagon a rolling!

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

If you stayed here long enough, you will know that Bangkok was renowned for its 24 hours club scene up till 2002. Also saw the increase in drug and alcohol related crimes. Thaksin initiated new social order to clamp down on the dramatic increase in these social ills which the police was reaping benefits by turning a blind eye. His enforcement of clubs to close at 12 midnight during weekdays and 1 pm during the weekend is still now enforced even in this junta government. I think it is a good policy but seem you think otherwise. 

Oh boy... you are SOOOO wrong... pre-Taksin era nightlife went through all night even though according to the law all night venues were supposed to be closed between midnight and 2am (depending on their licenses). Taksin never had any regard to the Thai people well being, only to his own financial well being. During that time he purchased big land plots around Ratchadapisek Rd and after few years of suppressing all nightlife places, he "came up with an idea" of zoning - night venues will be allowed to operate until different times of the night according to location, and guess which area was supposed to get the permission to stay open ALL night?? Need a hint??

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Great post! ? And I agree. One correction...Thaksin did return and was in the Kingdom in 2008. He was absurdly "allowed" to attend the 2008 Beijing Olympiad, where they then skipped bail and fled to Britain.

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/When-Thaksin-decided-to-go-missing-30238799.html

I stand corrected :)

[sjaak327]

41 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

The nightlife crackdown had nothing to do with Thaksin other than he was in power when it happened. It was initiated and enforced by Purachai, a renowned conservative and Buddhist.

 

Interestingly it was extremely popular in Bangkok at the time and Purachai was a favourite of the Bangkok elite for PM when Thaksin was removed in the 2006 coup.

 

Read here and educate yourself: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jul/07/news/adfg-moral7

 

 

The poster you referred to also fails to mention that Ratchada was not the only zone where extended closing times were valid, from recollection it included RCA and Silom. I personally doubt Thaksin owned any entertainment venues on Ratchada, but I guess it is Always fun to shift blame and accuse people without providing any evidence whatsoever. 

 

The OP broke the law for all to see, but still people are trying to defend the bloke, what utter hypocrisy. 

 

Oh and in any case, that law did nothing to a whole bunch of places I went to then and even now, partying in BKK the whole night was possible prior, during and post Thaksin. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by sjaak327

[Media1]

On 03/04/2018 at 5:55 PM, Thian said:

Which law did he break?

He committed high treason 

[Redline]

The world doesn’t care.  Thailand is only 1 percent of the word population 

[tropo]

On 4/3/2018 at 5:46 PM, AGareth2 said:

and a coup is not breaking the law?

Apparently not in Thailand. Bad guys are elected and then the good guys in the military decide who can stay.

[brucec64]

13 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Do you consider threatening people that "if your area doesn't vote for us and we win, you won't get any public money spent in your area" to be vote buying?

 

Or paying village headmen a nice reward, and spending money on the village providing all voters in that village, 100% vote for your party?

 

Or encouraging peer pressure to ensure everyone votes as the "village decides" rather than individuals?

Yes, that is called the Thai Niyom scheme. 

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts, offensive posts and the replies have been removed. 

[lvr181]

10 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

to rob the Thai electorate of their rights.

In a feudal society there are rights??

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, brucec64 said:

Yes, that is called the Thai Niyom scheme. 

 

Pioneered by the Shins, refined by the Junta. And neither remotely interested in democracy!

 

But you probably think the red shirt democracy camps were actually about democracy too!

[Baerboxer]

16 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

What has good goverance has to do with anything, does he provide that ?  My point should be clear for any but the most ignorant. I leave it up to you what I really think about you and your posts. 

 

As to worried about post being intercepted, I am not, I believe in freedom of speech. 

 

 

If you seriously consider Yingluck very occasionally attending parliament, appointing herself head of the rice scheme and never bothering to turn up to chair the meetings she appointed herself to, claiming repeatedly that there was no corruption in the scheme whilst also repeatedly asserting she and only she was in charge, and sacking a commerce minister for corrupt deals but allowing the deal to stand to be good governance then that is your choice. A bit rich calling others ignorant though as your rational for "good governance" is somewhat unique.

 

And allowing a convicted criminal fugitive to skype into cabinet meetings, dictate policy, and dictate several cabinet reshuffles in less than 3 years to get turns at the trough for all the boys, is also "good governance" in your book?

 

Regardless of the behavior of others, the Shins have plenty to be ashamed about. But all those billions and the privileges it buys for the family bury any thoughts of shame, ethics and morals. In the East wealth trumps everything.

[Aj Mick]

So by staging a coup, the General was not acting illegally?! And all he, and his fellow Generals, own was transparently and legitimately acquired?!

[Baerboxer]

16 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

No I did not state just that, I stated this:

 

"I already said several times, foreigners supporting this junta are the worst guests a country could receive, it shows an utter disrespect of the citizens of the country they are a guest in. 

 

Please note the reference to being a guest and respecting the citizens of the country of choice. I do believe this to be the key to what I was trying to say. Like I said, it went over your head. 

 

it obviously has nothing to do with a preference for a certain politician or a political party, supporting unlawfull coups is something entirely different. It cannot be allowed, because it is against the law. It's not really hard to understand.

 

 

Only here, as we all know, laws are not written, interpreted, or enforced anything like they are in most of our home countries.

 

Just like notions of democracy, freedom of speech, deference, corruption, ethics and morals are different.

 

When someone doesn't express themselves clearly, then when that's misunderstood and they feel obliged to constantly claim "it went over your head' that suggests certain behavioral traits, and not good ones.

 

You are entitled to your view, but so are other posters. And many remember the lies and corruptions of the various Shin regimes. That doesn't mean they support the Junta, or think the Junta are whiter than white or even any better. But they don't pretend the Shins were out for anyone but themselves and given the chance would be dismantling democracy like their mate in Cambodia is currently doing, no doubt with similar backing from Beijing.

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

The nightlife crackdown had nothing to do with Thaksin other than he was in power when it happened. It was initiated and enforced by Purachai, a renowned conservative and Buddhist.

 

Interestingly it was extremely popular in Bangkok at the time and Purachai was a favourite of the Bangkok elite for PM when Thaksin was removed in the 2006 coup.

 

Read here and educate yourself: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jul/07/news/adfg-moral7

 

 

 

So your're suggesting Thaksin was in power but appointed Purachai and then gave him a totally free hand to do as he pleased?

 

Seriously?

 

Even by your standards a somewhat unbelievable scenario.

[55Jay]

On 4/3/2018 at 5:41 PM, snoop1130 said:

"We cannot enforce our country’s laws overseas. If foreign countries do not send them back [for prosecution in Thailand], that’s it. Do you get it?” Prayut told reporters at Government House on Tuesday.

 

“I don’t have any feeling about them. They should have been ashamed. They broke the law and they still dare to go out,” the prime minister said.

Yes, sir, Mr. PM, we "get" that the lack of cooperation by so many countries abroad isn't a ringing endorsement of your Junta's credibility and motivations. 

 

"I have no feelings about them".  Then vents his strong feelings about them.  LOL.

[sjaak327]

 
If you seriously consider Yingluck very occasionally attending parliament, appointing herself head of the rice scheme and never bothering to turn up to chair the meetings she appointed herself to, claiming repeatedly that there was no corruption in the scheme whilst also repeatedly asserting she and only she was in charge, and sacking a commerce minister for corrupt deals but allowing the deal to stand to be good governance then that is your choice. A bit rich calling others ignorant though as your rational for "good governance" is somewhat unique.
 
And allowing a convicted criminal fugitive to skype into cabinet meetings, dictate policy, and dictate several cabinet reshuffles in less than 3 years to get turns at the trough for all the boys, is also "good governance" in your book?
 
Regardless of the behavior of others, the Shins have plenty to be ashamed about. But all those billions and the privileges it buys for the family bury any thoughts of shame, ethics and morals. In the East wealth trumps everything.

Sorry where in any of the posts do I claim Yingluck provided good governance? Does Prayuth provide good governance, is he accountable, how did he get the job, and how can the Thai electorate get rid of him?, why is he not ashamed, and why is he allowed to appear in public, and finally why keep talking about Yingluck and give this criminal a free pass?

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[sjaak327]

 

Only here, as we all know, laws are not written, interpreted, or enforced anything like they are in most of our home countries.

 

Just like notions of democracy, freedom of speech, deference, corruption, ethics and morals are different.

 

When someone doesn't express themselves clearly, then when that's misunderstood and they feel obliged to constantly claim "it went over your head' that suggests certain behavioral traits, and not good ones.

 

You are entitled to your view, but so are other posters. And many remember the lies and corruptions of the various Shin regimes. That doesn't mean they support the Junta, or think the Junta are whiter than white or even any better. But they don't pretend the Shins were out for anyone but themselves and given the chance would be dismantling democracy like their mate in Cambodia is currently doing, no doubt with similar backing from Beijing.

Where do I claim the Shinawatras where innocent or white. How many times need cold hard facts need to be pointed out to you? Fact, the Shins were elected in free and fair elections. Fact their terms where not unlimited. Fact at no point in time did they tear up the constitution and replaced it with their own. Fact at no time they had article 44 powers. Fact they were subjected to checks and balances. Fact at no point in time did they enjoy an amnesty. Fact they could be voted out of office.

 

The might have been corrupt as hell, they are vastly to be preferred over the current unelected bunch of clowns

 

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[Skeptic7]

17 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

The nightlife crackdown had nothing to do with Thaksin other than he was in power when it happened. It was initiated and enforced by Purachai, a renowned conservative and Buddhist.

 

Interestingly it was extremely popular in Bangkok at the time and Purachai was a favourite of the Bangkok elite for PM when Thaksin was removed in the 2006 coup.

 

Read here and educate yourself: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jul/07/news/adfg-moral7

 

I remember it well and with loathing. It was the Social Order Campaign under PM Thaksin Shinawatra and his Interior Minister Purachai in charge of seeing it through. Even if it truly was only Purachai's idea...it would have to go through and be given the nod of the PM. Saying Thaksin had "nothing to do with it" is reaching a wee bit too far. It was both of them on this crusade of power. 

http://www.economist.com/node/2486915

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/01/travel/social-order-takes-the-life-out-of-night-life-letter-from-bangkok.html

 

 

[sjaak327]

I remember it well and with loathing. It was the Social Order Campaign under PM Thaksin Shinawatra and his Interior Minister Purachai in charge of seeing it through. Even if it truly was only Purachai's idea...it would have to go through and be given the nod of the PM. Saying Thaksin had "nothing to do with it" is reaching a wee bit too far. It was both of them on this crusade of power. 
http://www.economist.com/node/2486915
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/01/travel/social-order-takes-the-life-out-of-night-life-letter-from-bangkok.html
 
 

Sure however it is a far cry from what the original post claimed. As that claim does not make any sense.

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[Eric Loh]

25 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

. It was both of them on this crusade of power. 

The social order policies even won support from the highest order in Thailand. You are in some sort of crusade to berate a policy meant to curb increasing social ills and is still enforced.

[bannork]

If I remember rightly Purachai refused to grant even one foreigner Thai citizenship on his watch as Minister of the Interior, even though he had a home in New Zealand and sent his kids to school there. 

He was also famous for his 'eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth' policy towards the Muslims in the deep South. Somewhat different to King Rama 9's advice of 'understand, reach out and develop'.

[sjaak327]

 
Only here, as we all know, laws are not written, interpreted, or enforced anything like they are in most of our home countries.
 
Just like notions of democracy, freedom of speech, deference, corruption, ethics and morals are different.
 
When someone doesn't express themselves clearly, then when that's misunderstood and they feel obliged to constantly claim "it went over your head' that suggests certain behavioral traits, and not good ones.
 
You are entitled to your view, but so are other posters. And many remember the lies and corruptions of the various Shin regimes. That doesn't mean they support the Junta, or think the Junta are whiter than white or even any better. But they don't pretend the Shins were out for anyone but themselves and given the chance would be dismantling democracy like their mate in Cambodia is currently doing, no doubt with similar backing from Beijing.

Oh and said poster claimed I said something which I actually never did, as he left out a vital sentence. Either he truly did not understand, or it was left out deliberately. Either way it is good to see how you condemn the over your head, yet give the accusation of me being dishonest a free pass, yet that claim cannot be sustained as my original post proves beyond any doubt. Are you sure you are in any position to discuss my behavioral traits. Imho you are not. I stand by what I said 100%. Quoting out of context, omitting a vital sentence is a lousy and disgraceful debating technique, far from being honest...

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