Lots of researching has brought more confusion.

[Merkaba]

Hi, thank you for all the great resources so far.

 

Me (33) and my fiancée (30) and our daughter (8 months) - have been researching and planning a move to Thailand, for a much needed career break.
This brought up a lot of research, and some confusion and questions I hope some of you are able to answer. 

 

We plan on staying around 183-190 days pr year in Thailand, Ko Samui to start with,  and the rest in Scandinavia or elsewhere in the world.

 

Eventually we would be interested in buying a freehold condo to live in, and rent out for the period we are not there.

 

 

Since we are both under 50 we are looking at non retirement visa options. 

Since we will not be working, but living of our private investments and assets (Crypto, private metals, and soon to be real-estate all outside of Thailand), so no need to file for TIN number as far as we understand? As long as the income is not generated in Thailand, or within the same year as it being spend, correct?

 

We looked at a range of different visa options.

 

Since we have our young daughter, we are not super keen on moving around every 2 or 3 months to get visa extensions, or leave the country.

 

 

The reason we are not just purchasing the Thai Elite Visa right now, is honestly because our crypto portfolio is down 70-80% from ATH in January, and guesstimating it could be a a few more months before it is back up.

 

Our plan was to start on a single entry visa 60 days, and then extend for 30 more days at immigration, then hopefully the markets have recovered and we can buy the Thai Elite Visa.

 

This will set us back 1.4million THB for the 3 of us, for a 5 year "family excursion program". To be honest I find it a little overwhelming to pay 300k THB for an infant, but if we want to be 100% compliant with VISA laws, we need a VISA for her as well.

 

I have read accounts of infants with VISA overstay, withtout trouble, but apparently it is logged in their passports for life, that they have overstayed a number of times. So it would be good to solve 

 

We also looked into buying a BOI approved company of a foreigner, and issuing our own VISAs, this will give us some compliance headache and we have more or less skipped that idea again. Since we wont be able to work on our ideas for at least the first year with our baby girl growing up, and having to have her adapt.

 

Eventually we would like to work or start our own business there, but we are not quite ready to set up shop yet.

 

 

Another way could be going trough Iglu, and having a company abroad pays us a minimum of 2500 dollars pr month, and add our private assets to that for monthly expenses.

 

We also looked into the old investment visa with 10m THB, but its a little unclear to me how to find the Government approved investments, and as far as I could read here, not many people get approved (and we would still have to wait for the crypto markets to recover ALOT before being able to afford it)

 

Last but not least we came across the new smart visas for investments 20m THB, which is very expensive to us, and not sure how safe it is for investments.

 

 

What do you think of our plans, are we missing something important? What would you have done?

 

Would have been great with a "retirement visa" for younger generations :) 

 

 

Appreciate your thoughts.

 

Greetings from Sweden

[elviajero]

Starting on tourist visas is probably your only choice. If you don’t need longer than 90 days before getting the PE visa then SETV’s for you all would be enough. Otherwise it might be worth getting METV’s if you can meet the requirements.

Edited April 6, 2018 by elviajero

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, elviajero said:

Starting on tourist visas is probably your only choice. If you don’t need longer than 90 days before getting the PE visa then SETV’s for you all would be enough. Otherwise it might be worth getting METV’s if you can meet the requirements.

The OP seems a normal decent person wanting to spend about 6 months a year in Thailand with his family, buying a condo and contributing well to the Thai economy.

It should be relatively easy for him or anyone like him to spend a lot of time in Thailand. It would seem that Thailand is losing a lot of long stayers like the OP because of ridiculous visa rules.

[alex8912]

It sounds like  you  could easily qualify for a METV from your home country. If you want to stay 6 months it would involve only one trip out of the country or one border hop. You only need the equivolent of about 7,000 USD in an account a flight out ticket ( could be a throw away ticket) and some type of employment verification just saying you are employed at some company ( somehow) at home ( I send a very short letter head saying that I am a full time worker at my company and I put no income info because at least in my country it does not say you have to, and that’s it) .  It could last almost 9 months with one more border hop. Cost is $200 USD. I just don’t know how it works for a child but maybe she can get one because she is with you obviously. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by alex8912

[JayBird]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

The OP seems a normal decent person wanting to spend about 6 months a year in Thailand with his family, buying a condo and contributing well to the Thai economy.

It should be relatively easy for him or anyone like him to spend a lot of time in Thailand. It would seem that Thailand is losing a lot of long stayers like the OP because of ridiculous visa rules.

Thailand has the Thailand Elite Visa specifically for this purpose. If an individual can not afford it, then they are not affluent enough to be given extra consideration.

 

I recommend you get the Thailand Elite Visa, and waiting until your funds are secured enough to afford this.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

19 minutes ago, JayBird said:

Thailand has the Thailand Elite Visa specifically for this purpose. If an individual can not afford it, then they are not affluent enough to be given extra consideration.

 

I recommend you get the Thailand Elite Visa, and waiting until your funds are secured enough to afford this.

 

 

The OP cannot get the Elite visa just now due to some difficulty with the system. But IMO, the money asked for it is ridiculous, what is it again, 500.000 Bt for 5 years? as you get nothing back in return, you are still doing this again ridiculous 90 day reporting and also contributing to the Thai economy.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

The OP seems a normal decent person wanting to spend about 6 months a year in Thailand with his family, buying a condo and contributing well to the Thai economy.

It should be relatively easy for him or anyone like him to spend a lot of time in Thailand. It would seem that Thailand is losing a lot of long stayers like the OP because of ridiculous visa rules.

With respect to the OP, and the few other families in this position, their contribution to the economy would be totally insignificant. Thailand, like most countries, want tourists to visit for a short time, spend money, and go home.

 

There is a lot wrong with the Thai immigration system, and although I agree that there should be proper options for 6 months continuous stay for 'tourism', I don't think it should be easy. A tourist visa that gives 6 months without leaving the country would be a good thing as long as the applicant can prove funds in the bank to cover the stay. That would require a change in the law (currently 90 days is the max under law), or a special visa category. I think they should drop the 'tourist' tag and issue 'Visitor' visas to cover the varied reasons for staying longer than a typical holidaying tourist.

 

IMO it won't be long before Thailand starts formally restricting 'tourism' to 6 months per year, and if that happens I expect we'll also see visa options to facilitate that.

[sawadee1947]

As I can see that you are not in a stable financial situation you are better off as regular visitors. 

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, elviajero said:

With respect to the OP, and the few other families in this position, their contribution to the economy would be totally insignificant. Thailand, like most countries, want tourists to visit for a short time, spend money, and go home.

 

There is a lot wrong with the Thai immigration system, and although I agree that there should be proper options for 6 months continuous stay for 'tourism', I don't think it should be easy. A tourist visa that gives 6 months without leaving the country would be a good thing as long as the applicant can prove funds in the bank to cover the stay. That would require a change in the law (currently 90 days is the max under law), or a special visa category. I think they should drop the 'tourist' tag and issue 'Visitor' visas to cover the varied reasons for staying longer than a typical holidaying tourist.

 

IMO it won't be long before Thailand starts formally restricting 'tourism' to 6 months per year, and if that happens I expect we'll also see visa options to facilitate that.

I agree there is a lot of sense in what you are saying, but how often does sense apply to Thailand?

[darrendsd]

2 hours ago, JayBird said:

Thailand has the Thailand Elite Visa specifically for this purpose. If an individual can not afford it, then they are not affluent enough to be given extra consideration.

 

I recommend you get the Thailand Elite Visa, and waiting until your funds are secured enough to afford this.

 

 

The Thailand Elite is not specifically for this purpose, the METV would be just fine for 6 months every year

 

"then they are not affluent enough to be given extra consideration"

 

If they can prove they meet the requirements  needed to get METV then they are considered affluent enough by the Government

 

Cost of the METV for 6 months for 5 years for 3 people, assuming they stay 6 months a year as the OP has indicated, approx 82000 Baht

 

Cost of the Elite for 3 people for 5 years, 1.5 million

 

It's not rocket science to see which is the better option, the TE is not needed in this instance, plenty of people come here for 6 months every year on METV's, there would be no problem for the OP to do the same

 

 

 

[geisha]

I firmly believe that a visitor visa as Elviajero mentions above would be a very good idea. From experience in my condo bulidings, most of my neighbours are foreigners , most over the age of 60/65, retired , quite well off, are both owners and renting. Most of us eat out in the surrounding restaurants and spend between 4 and 6 months in Thailand during the cold winter months of Europe and elsewhere. Most real tourists who typically stay one or two weeks, prefer to stay at hotels , they do not want to go shopping for food, cleaning a condo, or changing the bed sheets while on a short two weeks holiday ! 

Thailand allows foreigners to buy condos, and rent them , so why not have a visa that caters to this ? These people do not need a retirement visa, or an expensive Elite visa .Whats the point of sending them on ridiculous borderhops , notifications of address visits and extensions ?

Just charge a visa fee.

[gk10002000]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

The OP cannot get the Elite visa just now due to some difficulty with the system. But IMO, the money asked for it is ridiculous, what is it again, 500.000 Bt for 5 years? as you get nothing back in return, you are still doing this again ridiculous 90 day reporting and also contributing to the Thai economy.

A newer option is 800,000 baht for 10 years.  The OP's crypto currency reeks of problems.  He talks about the value being down and hoping it goes up.  But that is not income.  If the value goes up and he sells some off and takes the capital gain, then he has less invested.  The gains are not self sustaining as if one were earning interest or dividends.  Now if his out of Thailand real estate he hinted at provides cash flow, then he has a chance.  But I don't think he is on found financial grounds to be moving his family around, providing a good school for his child? 

[Media1]

Your crazy.....Vietnmam.much better choice easy 12 month VISA. 400 US.No stress no crap immigration pests. Better food friendly people. Lovely country

Thailand at it's worst position currently. Sorry only my opinion.

[stud858]

7 hours ago, Media1 said:

Your crazy.....Vietnmam.much better choice easy 12 month VISA. 400 US.No stress no crap immigration pests. Better food friendly people. Lovely country

Thailand at it's worst position currently. Sorry only my opinion.

Sounds good.  Does 1 year Vietnam stay require border runs or reporting?

[Media1]

9 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Sounds good.  Does 1 year Vietnam stay require border runs or reporting?

No but you must get visa pre approved online. They will then send a link to print. On arrival pay another 129 US.

Multi entry 12 months no stress

[LongTimeLurker]

16 hours ago, Media1 said:

No but you must get visa pre approved online. They will then send a link to print. On arrival pay another 129 US.

Multi entry 12 months no stress

Isn't the maximum length of stay 6 months?

 

And can it be extended?

 

When it was 3 months entry it was possible to extend.

[onera1961]

17 hours ago, Media1 said:

No but you must get visa pre approved online. They will then send a link to print. On arrival pay another 129 US.

Multi entry 12 months no stress

After reading all the suggestions, I like this options. Thai immigration is really not that good. Stay in Vietnam and and you can come to Thailand on a tourist visa as often as possible. Or get Thai METV to live 6 months in a year. The most annoying thing of Thai immigration is 90 day reporting and expensive fine for not complying. 90-day reporting is outright insult, in my opinion. Reporting if there is an address change is acceptable.

[Media1]

10 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

After reading all the suggestions, I like this options. Thai immigration is really not that good. Stay in Vietnam and and you can come to Thailand on a tourist visa as often as possible. Or get Thai METV to live 6 months in a year. The most annoying thing of Thai immigration is 90 day reporting and expensive fine for not complying. 90-day reporting is outright insult, in my opinion. Reporting if there is an address change is acceptable.

They are making it near impossible. You must be married or on a retirement VISA. Even then it's a nightmare each year.

Cambodia is dirty hole. No future there. Vietnam great food cool cultural experiences. if l was leaving my wife l be there.

l have the VISA contact she is the cheapest and best company save a buck. inbox me

[thaibeachlovers]

Maybe it's just me looking at the glass half empty, but that plan sounds like it's full of holes. For a start, is the OP aware of restrictions on working here? If their child is old enough to go to school, how will they pay for a decent school if they can't afford a proper visa.

 

IMO, either pay for a proper visa that allows long stay without problems, or just visit without any intent to be doing more than having a holiday.

 

Some have said Vietnam, but I've heard that medical care is not as good as Thailand's, and the child would be a concern health wise.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some have said Vietnam, but I've heard that medical care is not as good as Thailand's, and the child would be a concern health wise.

At least the OP has a fall back option to the best medical care money can buy but millions of Vietnamese children don't have that luxury.

[Merkaba]

On 4/7/2018 at 10:16 AM, darrendsd said:

The Thailand Elite is not specifically for this purpose, the METV would be just fine for 6 months every year

 

"then they are not affluent enough to be given extra consideration"

 

If they can prove they meet the requirements  needed to get METV then they are considered affluent enough by the Government

 

Cost of the METV for 6 months for 5 years for 3 people, assuming they stay 6 months a year as the OP has indicated, approx 82000 Baht

 

Cost of the Elite for 3 people for 5 years, 1.5 million

 

It's not rocket science to see which is the better option, the TE is not needed in this instance, plenty of people come here for 6 months every year on METV's, there would be no problem for the OP to do the same

 

 

 

 

Thank you - We had the METV visa in 2013 when we visited the first time, and again in 2015. 

We wanted something a little more permanent that would grant us not to be taxed in Sweden, meaning we would have to be out of Sweden for at least 6 months per year. 

Not sure if we will still be taxed in Sweden if we are only in Thailand on a turist visa.

Maybe we just need to take a little extra "vacation" to Kuala Lumpur once every 3 months and make sure to stay in Thailand more than 183 days. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Merkaba

[elviajero]

15 minutes ago, Merkaba said:

We wanted something a little more permanent that would grant us not to be taxed in Sweden, meaning we would have to be out of Sweden for at least 6 months per year. 

Not sure if we will still be taxed in Sweden if we are only in Thailand on a turist visa.

I think you need to talk to an accountant. Your visa status is irrelevant. If you are in Thailand for more than 180 days in a tax year you become ‘Tax resident’ and could end up paying tax in both countries.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

34 minutes ago, Merkaba said:

 

 

 

Thank you - We had the METV visa in 2013 when we visited the first time, and again in 2015. 

We wanted something a little more permanent that would grant us not to be taxed in Sweden, meaning we would have to be out of Sweden for at least 6 months per year. 

Not sure if we will still be taxed in Sweden if we are only in Thailand on a turist visa.

Maybe we just need to take a little extra "vacation" to Kuala Lumpur once every 3 months and make sure to stay in Thailand more than 183 days. 

 

Wrong forum.

 

It's never that easy with the government. You don't get to decide if you are a resident for tax purposes or not even if you don't spend a single day in Sweden again.

 

You need an accountant first then worry about the visa.

[mahtin]

Call it what you will - How you managed until now without is beyond me - but you need  Accountant & TaxAdvisors.

Steuerberater, whatever.

[JackThompson]

If I were coming to the region now, I would go to Vietnam, as per others' suggestions.  Their government welcomes foreigners from nations with higher pay-levels. 

 

By contrast Thailand favors those arriving from neighboring poor nations (special exceptions in the visa-rules and special work-visas), to drive down the cost of labor for the rich, which hurts the Thai working class.  At the same time, they treat people from higher-wage nations who stay longer-term as "suspected job thieves," even though the likelihood of us working here is slim, and each one of us helps multiple working-class Thais earn a decent living just by being here, spending our foreign-sourced capital. 

 

But, if you still want to come to Thailand and deal with the Immigration nightmare ...

 

On 4/6/2018 at 4:21 PM, Merkaba said:

Eventually we would like to work or start our own business there, but we are not quite ready to set up shop yet.

 

On 4/6/2018 at 4:21 PM, Merkaba said:

We plan on staying around 183-190 days pr year in Thailand,

Then Tourist Visas are perfect for you.

You can arrive every year with one from your home-country, then obtain the 2nd one at nearby consulates. 

 

On 4/6/2018 at 4:21 PM, Merkaba said:

We also looked into the old investment visa with 10m THB, but its a little unclear to me how to find the Government approved investments, and as far as I could read here, not many people get approved (and we would still have to wait for the crypto markets to recover ALOT before being able to afford it)

It's not that complicated - "in the bank" or "govt bonds" or "new condo" purchases - but it is a lot of money. 

 

As an aside,  I'm not sure why you think crypto "will recover" - at least anywhere near that last ATH.  Consider how many "economy / markets will crash" next month/year predictions you have seen come and go.  I am not saying it will not go up - only that this is not a certainty.  I have seen too many "predictions" in my time.  Silver should be hundreds of $$/oz by now, according to what was gospel in some circles a few years ago - which was based on fairly-solid "reasoning" per supply and demand.

 

What was left-out of the predictions, was the influence of the elite families who "manufacture money" out of debt/thin-air as a monopoly-service for nearly every nation on Earth (except those nations which are currently sanctioned, and likely to be bombed).  If they want something priced high or low, that is where it will be.  They can speculate to oblivion on anything, since they have a relatively-unlimited supply of "money" - so it doesn't really "cost" them anything. 

 

On 4/6/2018 at 4:21 PM, Merkaba said:

Another way could be going trough Iglu, and having a company abroad pays us a minimum of 2500 dollars pr month, and add our private assets to that for monthly expenses.

You know they take 33% of gross-receipts (the $2500 USD), right?  Even the Elite is cheaper long-term - though I would never blow that amount of money on either.

 

On 4/6/2018 at 4:21 PM, Merkaba said:

no need to file for TIN number as far as we understand? As long as the income is not generated in Thailand, or within the same year as it being spend, correct?

Correct.

Edited April 11, 2018 by JackThompson