Extortion from Landlord years ago - Visiting Thailand Fears

[KiptheMann]

Hey everyone,

I used to live in Thailand and had stayed for a few years with a non-immigrant education visa I obtained for my kid.

I'll probably delete this thread later. Basically, I was on disability from the states and also wrote a book which sold while I lived in Thailand - residual sales (maybe that is not considered actual working if just receiving commissions)- mos sales were to those people in the states, through amazon.

At the same time people began promoting my book for me, while making websites about me and my success (showing me living a good life in Thailand). Most of the sites were made by others because they'd get a 50% commission

on all book sales through their promotions. I was renting a nice large home outside Chiang Mai. I ended up having two break-ins and it got really scary at that point - no police arrived, didn't feel safe.

I wanted to break my lease and let the owner keep the deposit and be done with it. I paid my cleaning lady who I really trusted, to clean everything immaculately before we moved out. Everything was checked and left there as it was before 

we moved in (the owner had some furniture and pillows, etc.). The owner ended up telling me I stole her pillows and owed her $50 USD per pillow, she said a hole in the wall was $50 and she began making all sorts of things up, asking me for a couple thousand more USD. The deposit itself was ridiculously a lot of money - but it wasn't enough for this greedy lady who was the one who likely 'setup' the 'breakins.'

I was leaving the country with my son to visit family in the states when the lady began threatening me. I have memory issues so I can't recall everything exactly but she had a letter supposedly written by an attorney, demanding a lot of money. She had her deposit which covered everything. I did no damage to her home and left everything as it was. The deposit was at least $2K usd which is a lot of money. Anyway, I believe in the letter she told me that she reported me to the Thai police or immigration for working without a permit. I was naive about all of that at the time and didn't realize I could get in trouble for my work online. All the websites created about me were a bit incriminating and she had sent me links to them - the sites I had not even created - ones which praised how I was working in Thailand and living the good life, etc. That was in Sept. 2008. After doing more research and trying to get her to back down with my own letters of reply, I got so freaked out that I was going to get in trouble or arrested. I didn't know what to do, and I stayed in the states.

Now, I bought two airline tickets for my son and I to return to just visit and travel in Thailand. I honestly forgot about all this drama until this week. I was reading a thai newspaper online and it said how some people were arrested for working without permits. Then, I read other stories about people being arrested for working without a permit about 6 years earlier. I know this is a ridiculous amount of time later - about 10 years later - but should I be concerned about entering? I don't want to get arrested with my poor kid with me and have him taken away or anything. I know it sounds nuts but I sort of do believe that she reported me. What are your thoughts? I do have an old Thai friend who works in govt. so I may try to get in touch and see what he thinks....Any way of finding out if I may have an issue entering? I woudln't care if they denied entry - but to get arrested is so scary...thanks everyone for reading.

[poanoi]

most stuff is prescribed after 10 years,

so what is left is figuring out if you are on the denied entry list,

but i think that too would be gone after 10 years.

a lawyer could investigate that last part for a price,

but after 10 years, i would not piss away money on such a small chance

[KiptheMann]

Thanks Paonoi. :) I hope you are correct. I dont think my kid can handle being jailed in Thailand. I know it seems like I am being paranoid but the recent articles I've read are disturbing.

[Crossy]

Personally I think you are worrying over nothing. Assuming you weren't actually picked up by the authorities it is highly unlikely that any actual action was taken, particularly ten years back when things were rather more relaxed. The landlady will have forgotten long ago (but I wouldn't be going to say "hi").

 

Do you have a link to the article about retrospective arrest for no WP? Seems like something the local authorities would be filing under the "too hard" label, there must be more too it.

 

Just come and enjoy your stay.

 

[KiptheMann]

Thanks for the reply Crossy. Even if she did go to the authorities, they couldn't come to speak with me as I was out of the country, and then never returned. I will let you know if I can find the article I was reading earlier about the guy being arrested from a charge 6 years prior.

[thailand49]

Don't come you are going to worry yourself sick and not have a good time with your son!  Go somewhere else! 

[mstevens]

A lawyer in Thailand told me some years ago that to prosecute someone for working without a work permit that person needed to be caught in the act working by police / Immigration.  That never happened to you, so don't worry too much about it.

 

Even if a complaint was made and n arrest warrant issued (very unlikely), it is my understanding that arrest warrants in Thailand expire after 10 years....and it must be close to the 10 years already.

[Crash999]

I wouldn’t worry about working without a work permit. You’d have to be generating income locally and especially taking payment locally for the authorities to care. And then they’d need to catch you in the act. 

 

Did the two break-ins cause damage that could conceivably be beyond $2k? 

[KiptheMann]

Crash, there was no damage to her home or belongings. 

[anon789561]

a few paranoid posts the last few days about coming back over things that happened a long time ago. that will all have been forgotten for sure OP. you have no worries just come back and enjoy your stay

[KiptheMann]

37 minutes ago, mstevens said:

A lawyer in Thailand told me some years ago that to prosecute someone for working without a work permit that person needed to be caught in the act working by police / Immigration.  That never happened to you, so don't worry too much about it.

 

Even if a complaint was made and n arrest warrant issued (very unlikely), it is my understanding that arrest warrants in Thailand expire after 10 years....and it must be close to the 10 years already.

Thank you mStevens. That is very helpful to know! I appreciate It. I was never caught in person, though she may have had online evidence. It's been about 9 1/2 yrs. I love Thailand and will be there soon on our trip. I assume nothing will happen but still have slight concerns. Funny thing is back then there wasn't WiFi, I was using dial up and things have changed a lot in the last decade. Now things are probably more computerized. 

[KiptheMann]

1 minute ago, Happy enough said:

a few paranoid posts the last few days about coming back over things that happened a long time ago. that will all have been forgotten for sure OP. you have no worries just come back and enjoy your stay

Happy enough, I love your reply! Thank you! I think it will be ok. I love Thailand enough to return soon...my son doesn't even remember living there as he was so young. . I am excited about it. Thanks for the comment.

[Swimman]

1 hour ago, KiptheMann said:

Funny thing is back then there wasn't WiFi

Mmm - WiFi has been available (maybe not in Thailand) for more than 10 years - and for sure you were not uploading very much if using a dial-up connection....

[stud858]

Next time take video evidence that you left the rented place undamaged.

As for being worried about the retributions In Thailand. It is real and stay well away from it.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, stud858 said:

As for being worried about the retributions In Thailand. It is real and stay well away from it.

Can you explain what you mean and provide some proof of what you wrote.

[angy]

can you tell us if the landlord was thai or what country? many landlord do this scams and also the agents but is not only in Thailand, here they have a big teach from motorbike and jetski rental.  Better when rent something go only to trusted person or is better to not rent till then.

Edited April 13, 2018 by angy

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Personally, I would consider employing a couple of really poor, untrained Burmese painters and decorators to go round to her house late one night and paint the exterior a violent shade of fuschia.

[KiptheMann]

39 minutes ago, angy said:

can you tell us if the landlord was thai or what country? many landlord do this scams and also the agents but is not only in Thailand, here they have a big teach from motorbike and jetski rental.  Better when rent something go only to trusted person or is better to not rent till then.

She was thai.

[FritsSikkink]

The working thing is most likely no problem. You could have an other problem though. You broke the lease. Depending on how long the lease still had to go, she doesn't have to accept you "offer" of leaving the deposit. She can require you to pay for the rest of the lease AND any damage there was on the house which exceeds the deposit. As you left the country before sorting this out, she could have made a police report and there could be a warrant for your arrest. This all depends on how angry the woman was and how much effort she put in to make your life difficult.

[zoza]

no need for you to worry, as a mate was in a similar position and worried for months about the police/ immigration 

on his return here, as he left the airport he wondered what all the fuss was about?

[Scouse123]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

The working thing is most likely no problem. You could have an other problem though. You broke the lease. Depending on how long the lease still had to go, she doesn't have to accept you "offer" of leaving the deposit. She can require you to pay for the rest of the lease AND any damage there was on the house which exceeds the deposit. As you left the country before sorting this out, she could have made a police report and there could be a warrant for your arrest. This all depends on how angry the woman was and how much effort she put in to make your life difficult.

 

I believe you are just trying to worry the man over something he has no need to worry about. If I were him I would totally ignore your post as scaremongering.

 

It is a complete nonsense to suggest she would or the police would be remotely interested in chasing him for breaking the terms of a lease or pursuing a claim 10 years down the line.

 

That is the whole idea of deposits, to ensure any damage or outstanding utility bills are covered.]

 

KiptheMann, .........stop getting yourself in a dizzy and just walk into Thailand, you are concerning yourself and fretting over nothing.

[FritsSikkink]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I believe you are just trying to worry the man over something he has no need to worry about. If I were him I would totally ignore your post as scaremongering.

 

It is a complete nonsense to suggest she would or the police would be remotely interested in chasing him for breaking the terms of a lease or pursuing a claim 10 years down the line.

 

That is the whole idea of deposits, to ensure any damage or outstanding utility bills are covered.]

 

KiptheMann, .........stop getting yourself in a dizzy and just walk into Thailand, you are concerning yourself and fretting over nothing.

"deposits, to ensure any damage or outstanding utility bills are covered." yes and not for covering the damage for breaking a lease.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, KiptheMann said:

Thank you mStevens. That is very helpful to know! I appreciate It. I was never caught in person, though she may have had online evidence. It's been about 9 1/2 yrs. I love Thailand and will be there soon on our trip. I assume nothing will happen but still have slight concerns. Funny thing is back then there wasn't WiFi, I was using dial up and things have changed a lot in the last decade. Now things are probably more computerized. 

"Now things are probably more computerized".

I would not count on that. Thailand still depends on lots and lots of paperwork. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by possum1931

[Expatthailover]

After all this time it will be a he said she said situation.

The 2k deposit ( almost 80k thai ) that she kept would almost certainly mitigate any imaginary losses the woman claims she has incurred.

Really is storm in a teacup stuff

[stud858]

55 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Can you explain what you mean and provide some proof of what you wrote.

Due to the sensitive and personal nature I cannot prove any details. Sorry, I know it would be nice to hear the juicy details.

But let me tell this hearsay story that may or may not be true to give example of what I mean.

 

Retribution meaning -A Thai person is involved in an argument with a foreigner. A photo of a foreigner is taken as if they are shown as working. Let's Say, opening a car bonnet and looking inside holding a screwdriver. Immigration are involved and the foreigner is fined 40,000 baht for working without a permit.

 

it is real and stay away meaning- You will most likely hear the odd stories from people. When the stories mount up and you are involved in some then it becomes real.  Be polite always and try to remediate argumentative situations calmly and move on.  Hard to do when anger takes hold.

 

Back to OP's problem.  My advice is to not underestimate retribution threats. Time has passed so that could have solved the problem. But be prepared to hand over cash and be polite and smile when you have to.

 

Peace to all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[anon789561]

8 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Due to the sensitive and personal nature I cannot prove any details. Sorry, I know it would be nice to hear the juicy details.

But let me tell this hearsay story that may or may not be true to give example of what I mean.

 

Retribution meaning -A Thai person is involved in an argument with a foreigner. A photo of a foreigner is taken as if they are shown as working. Let's Say, opening a car bonnet and looking inside holding a screwdriver. Immigration are involved and the foreigner is fined 40,000 baht for working without a permit.

 

it is real and stay away meaning- You will most likely hear the odd stories from people. When the stories mount up and you are involved in some then it becomes real.  Be polite always and try to remediate argumentative situations calmly and move on.  Hard to do when anger takes hold.

 

Back to OP's problem.  My advice is to not underestimate retribution threats. Time has passed so that could have solved the problem. But be prepared to hand over cash and be polite and smile when you have to.

 

Peace to all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

so if i want to fix my car i can get fined 40,000 baht if sometimes takes a photo of me. what a load of none sense. OP, just forget all this BS and come back and enjoy your holiday

*and is has nothing to do with immigration even if you were working, i think you'll find that's the labour departments area

Edited April 13, 2018 by Happy enough
*

[stud858]

3 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

so if i want to fix my car i can get fined 40,000 baht if sometimes takes a photo of me. what a load of none sense. OP, just forget all this BS and come back and enjoy your holiday

*and is has nothing to do with immigration even if you were working, i think you'll find that's the labour departments area

I am saying if you upset someone , they will upset you back. Simple law of humanity.

Let me agree with you that if you go out today and fix your car, you will most likely be ok.

[anon789561]

2 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I am saying if you upset someone , they will upset you back. Simple law of humanity.

Let me agree with you that if you go out today and fix your car, you will most likely be ok.

not, most likely. i would definitely be ok. lucky i have a car that's still under warranty eh. god forbid i change the oil myself. could end up in suan plu according to you. 555

[Swimman]

26 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I cannot prove any details.

Anecdotal, second/third-hand tales are of little value to anyone. 

[stud858]

Just now, Happy enough said:

not, most likely. i would definitely be ok. lucky i have a car that's still under warranty eh. god forbid i change the oil myself. could end up in suan plu according to you. 555

 

Just now, Happy enough said:

not, most likely. i would definitely be ok. lucky i have a car that's still under warranty eh. god forbid i change the oil myself. could end up in suan plu according to you. 555

Depending on what's just happened in the recent time. Let's say that you've just insulted a person. They are angry. I would not say definitely OK. Their option is to shout and scream, physical violence or the ever growing option of get the foreigner in trouble with immigration.  But somehow I think you're the type of guy who is polite so you will be OK in the future. Or if the future doesn't exist because time is always now then let's say later on.