Police issue an arrest warrant for me.... advice?

[foreigner891]

I'm hoping that sharing my story could help me find a solution.

 

- Background
I worked & lived in Thailand for about nine years without any problems, paid my taxes, had a working permit and visa. Last years I decided to move back to my home country Canada, visit Thailand now and then.

 

- The Event
I sold 30,000 THB wort of Bitcoins online and accepted the payment by Bank Transfer in Thailand. I kept a complete record of the transaction, and the buyer sent me is id card with a small written contract.

- The Claim
A Thai man claims his account was used for 
19 illegal transactions, 2 of which were with me.

 

- The Police
Asked my bank to froze all the money in my account. 
(More than 30,000THB)

Do not speak English and refused to communicate with two different Thai freelancers that I hired to facilitate the communication and translate my evidence.

Request me to request an appointment with them to a specific Bangkok police station to give my evidence and version of the story.

 

- The Tourist Police
During three weeks of communications by "line messaging app." I was able to get some updates on the case, but their legal power is limited and can't help me because this has to be resolved with "the local police."

 

- Last Update
I offered to refund the 30,000 THB, but the police officials insist that I come to their police station in Bangkok to give my deposition and evidence in person. 

I work and live in Canada, traveling to Thailand to meet a police officer that does not speak English to give them evidence that he already has but refused the review because they were not given to him "in person.".

The police decided to issue an arrest warrant for me.

 

- Going to Thailand?
I'm afraid that it will cost me thousands of dollars in lawyers, attorneys and translator to prove my innocence. I could be forced to stay in Jail or "flight ban" during the complete police investigation.

Any pieces of advice?
 

Edited May 4, 2018 by foreigner891

[TonyClifton]

I'm hoping that sharing my story could help me find a solution.
 
- Background
I worked & lived in Thailand for about nine years without any problems, paid my taxes, had a working permit and visa. Last years I decided to move back to my home country Canada, visit Thailand now and then.
 
- The Event
I sold 30,000 THB wort of Bitcoins online and accepted the payment by Bank Transfer in Thailand. I kept a complete record of the transaction, and the buyer sent me is id card with a small written contract.
- The Claim
A Thai man claims his account was used for 
19 illegal transactions, 2 of which were with me.
 
- The Police
Asked my bank to froze all the money in my account. 
(More than 30,000THB)
Do not speak English and refused to communicate with two different Thai freelancers that I hired to facilitate the communication and translate my evidence.
Request me to request an appointment with them to a specific Bangkok police station to give my evidence and version of the story.
 
- The Tourist Police
During three weeks of communications by "line messaging app." I was able to get some updates on the case, but their legal power is limited and can't help me because this has to be resolved with "the local police."
 
- Last Update
I offered to refund the 30,000 THB, but the police officials insist that I come to their police station in Bangkok to give my deposition and evidence in person. 
I work and live in Canada, traveling to Thailand to meet a police officer that does not speak English to give them evidence that he already has but refused the review because they were not given to him "in person.".
The police decided to issue an arrest warrant for me.
 
- Going to Thailand?
I'm afraid that it will cost me thousands of dollars in lawyers, attorneys and translator to prove my innocence. I could be forced to stay in Jail or "flight ban" during the complete police investigation.
Any pieces of advice?
 

Stay out of Thailand. Try the Philippines.

Sent from my Star Trek Communicator.

[cornishcarlos]

Forget about it, unless you intend to go back to Thailand !! In fact just forget about Thailand... 

If you need a beach holiday, as above, go to Philippines or Indo...

Thailand can't get extradition for a cop killer, doubt they'll have much luck getting you sent back for 30k :)

 

 

[Kwasaki]

If it was 3,000,000 probably worth getting it cleared up.

 

I would write and ask them to send a letter of the deposition for you to answer and return by letter, saying it is unreasonable and inequitable of the Thai police to request you come to Thailand in person for this alleged misdemeanor.

In your opinion you unknowingly didn't do anything wrong and in your opinion your being conned by undertaking a simple transaction.

You can check if you will be allowed back into Thailand should you want to later.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Kwasaki

[simon43]

I would write and ask them to send a letter of the deposition for you to answer and return by letter, saying it is unreasonable and inequitable of the Thai police to request you come to Thailand in person for this alleged misdemeanor.

In your opinion you unknowingly didn't do anything wrong and in your opinion your being conned by undertaking a simple transaction.

You can check if you will be allowed back into Thailand should you want to later.

I suggest you get this letter translated into Thai to send to them and ask for their reply also in Thai - then there can be no misunderstandings...

[foreigner891]

The local po

8 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If it was 3,000,000 probably worth getting it cleared up.

 

I would write and ask them to send a letter of the deposition for you to answer and return by letter, saying it is unreasonable and inequitable of the Thai police to request you come to Thailand in person for this alleged misdemeanor.

In your opinion you unknowingly didn't do anything wrong and in your opinion your being conned by undertaking a simple transaction.

You can check if you will be allowed back into Thailand should you want to later.

 

I already did this with two different Thai freelancer and a translator from the Thai Police Tourist.

 

Only a statement and evidence delivered in person (with a translator) will be accepted by the Thai Police.

Edited May 4, 2018 by foreigner891

[simon43]

Only a statement or evidence delivered in person will be accepted by the Thai Police.

... probably because they want to arrest you, throw you in a cell and then blackmail you.

As others have suggested, forget the money and forget visiting Thailand again.

[JimmyJ]

Try cutting and pasting your OP at reddit.com/r/Bitcoin just in case someone there may have run into a similar problem.

Ignore the few hostile idiots who respond, there's a slight chance of finding someone helpful.

 

Even better, there is a bitcoin subforum on this website.

 

Did you sell the BTC thru LocalBitcoins.com? Or a personal acquaintance?

 

I'm wondering if someone is scamming and has done it previously.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by JimmyJ

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, foreigner891 said:

The local po

 

I already did this with two different Thai freelancer and a translator from the Thai Police Tourist.

 

Only a statement or evidence delivered in person will be accepted by the Thai Police.

You are in Canada, the Thai police dealing with this should be told in no uncertain terms the law even Thai law is what is reasonable, they are not being reasonable asking for a person to person account in this situation. 

Write to the army guy in charge of Thailand.

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, foreigner891 said:

The local po

 

I already did this with two different Thai freelancer and a translator from the Thai Police Tourist.

 

Only a statement and evidence delivered in person (with a translator) will be accepted by the Thai Police.

You did this in writing already? And also received a reply in writing?

[Dick Crank]

You had your day, plenty of other countries to goto.

 

move on and don't visit or transit through Thailand anymore, even on a connecting flight where you don't leave the airport.

 

even the possibility of thai jail it's not worth the risk.

 

Many times these are dumb people that don't know what there doing or how to investigate anything fairly, which I'm sure you are aware by now.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Dick Crank

[InMyShadow]

Forget about wasting your time getting this sorted from OS

They want you there for one reason only, so they can lock you up and the extortion begins and a lot more than 30k,!

[mstevens]

This is an awkward situation to resolve from outside the country, and even within the country it might be a nightmare.

 

The arrest warrant was issued to force you to the police station to answer questions relating to the case.  That's a standard tactic used by Thai police when they cannot find someone they wish to question.  It means is that if you enter Thailand (at any airport or border crossing), your name will come up as someone who is to be arrested.  From there you would be transported to the police station where the case is being investigated, you may be charged and could be looking at having to post bail to stay out of jail.  Bail could be 100,000 - 200,000 baht.  You would then have to apply for permission to leave Thailand until the case was resolved - and who knows how long that might take?  It might be months, or it might be longer.  Or, who knows, if you were lucky the charges might be dropped or the whole case dropped before you even got there.  That would be the ideal scenario.

 

I have been called a coward in this forum for my attitude towards matters of the law in Thailand but I would not like to find myself entangled in the web that is the Thai justice system.  It's all too messy, very unclear for outsiders and potentially very, very expensive.  It sounds as if you have done nothing wrong, but nonetheless could find yourself stuck in Thailand if you return.

 

If you really wish to return, I'd look at retaining a good lawyer and get them to visit the police on your behalf.  Go for one of the big international firms.  It will cost - could work out at more than you think - but that money would be worth it for peace of mind.

 

Personally, I would not return until you understand what may be waiting for you.  In a worst case scenario you could find yourself trapped in Thailand waiting for the case to play out - and if there are other parties it could drag on and on.  A couple of years or more is not out of the question.  That's why I think you have to get legal help if you wish to return to Thailand.  If you don't have any desire to return to Thailand, arrest warrants lapse after 10 years.

 

Of note, this is, I think, the 3rd report I have read on ThaiVisa from people who have bought or sold BitCoin in Thailand being summoned to report to police.

[mstevens]

35 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If it was 3,000,000 probably worth getting it cleared up.

 

I would write and ask them to send a letter of the deposition for you to answer and return by letter, saying it is unreasonable and inequitable of the Thai police to request you come to Thailand in person for this alleged misdemeanor.

In your opinion you unknowingly didn't do anything wrong and in your opinion your being conned by undertaking a simple transaction.

You can check if you will be allowed back into Thailand should you want to later.

This is a good idea in principle and would probably be accepted as reasonable in the jurisdictions of developed countries, but I am not sure the Thais would see it that way.  Even if this is possible, all communications would have to be in Thai and you'd need a Thai lawyer or someone very familiar with the system to advise how things work and what the ramifications of it all are.

[FritsSikkink]

27 minutes ago, foreigner891 said:

The local po

 

I already did this with two different Thai freelancer and a translator from the Thai Police Tourist.

 

Only a statement and evidence delivered in person (with a translator) will be accepted by the Thai Police.

Why hire a freelancer? Hire a lawyer, shouldn't be that expensive as it is just for talking to the police and make a counter claim.

[JimmyJ]

4 minutes ago, mstevens said:

Of note, this is, I think, the 3rd report I have read on ThaiVisa from people who have bought or sold BitCoin in Thailand being summoned to report to police.

Were the other cases a similar event to the OP's - selling or buying BTC from an individual and then a third party claims they were stolen from his account?

[jenny2017]

If there's an arrest warrant, they'll arrest you right at the airport. 

 

    No idea what a freelancer who only speaks Thai can do for you.

 

  Did you, by any chance, buy from a Russian with a funny name?

 

  https://news.bitcoin.com/fbi-claims-arrested-cyber-crime-syndicate-co-founder-medvedev-worth-800m-in-btc/

 

"Reports have indicated that similar operations designed to arrest 18 members of Infraud have been carried out in over a dozen different countries – expanding on prior efforts by the FBI to crack down on Infraud, which have previously seen the arrest of 32 individuals suspected of criminal involvement with the group."

 

    

 

    

Edited May 4, 2018 by jenny2017

[Berkshire]

If the OP returns to Thailand, he will have a future as a TV star.  There's a TV show on Natl Geo called "Locked Up Abroad."  That's you OP if you return to Thailand.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Berkshire

[mstevens]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Were the other cases a similar event to the OP's - selling or buying BTC from an individual and then a third party claims they were stolen from his account?

I don't know as I don't really understand BitCoin.  Here is one thread where something similar happened :

 

and someone else posted something similar in another thread also.

[simon43]

In a worst case scenario you could find yourself trapped in Thailand waiting for the case to play out - and if there are other parties it could drag on and on. A couple of years or more is not out of the question.

This happened to me some years ago. A charge was levied against me and arrest threatened. To avoid arrest I flew to Laos the same day and then sat in Vientiane for some weeks whilst I paid an expensive lawyer in BKK to liaise with the police to sort out the problem (I denied the charge).

After some weeks, my lawyer explained that all was now sorted and I could return to Thailand. So I flew back to Thailand..... and was arrested! It then took me almost one year to actually resolve the problem, (the only realistic option was to admit the charge and settle out of Court with the accuser - it cost me tens of thousands of $).

During that year, I could not leave Thailand (my name was on the blacklist) and I could not work to earn money. I had to travel to Pattaya police every 3 months and 'bribe' them to issue me with a new visa (the Court would give me a letter to request the visa extension, but the actual cost to obtain that visa required an expensive bribe).

So..... after that incident, my trust in the Thai legal system, police and lawyers approximated to 0%. If I were ever accused of any crime in Thailand, I would immediately leave the country to avoid arrest, and then accept that return to Thailand was thereafter impossible.

[jenny2017]

1 minute ago, mstevens said:

I don't know as I don't really understand BitCoin.  Here is one thread where something similar happened :

 

and someone else posted something similar in another thread also.

Obviously the same guy

[Dick Crank]

19 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

This happened to me some years ago. A charge was levied against me and arrest threatened. To avoid arrest I flew to Laos the same day and then sat in Vientiane for some weeks whilst I paid an expensive lawyer in BKK to liaise with the police to sort out the problem (I denied the charge).

After some weeks, my lawyer explained that all was now sorted and I could return to Thailand. So I flew back to Thailand..... and was arrested! It then took me almost one year to actually resolve the problem, (the only realistic option was to admit the charge and settle out of Court with the accuser - it cost me tens of thousands of $).

During that year, I could not leave Thailand (my name was on the blacklist) and I could not work to earn money. I had to travel to Pattaya police every 3 months and 'bribe' them to issue me with a new visa (the Court would give me a letter to request the visa extension, but the actual cost to obtain that visa required an expensive bribe).

So..... after that incident, my trust in the Thai legal system, police and lawyers approximated to 0%. If I were ever accused of any crime in Thailand, I would immediately leave the country to avoid arrest, and then accept that return to Thailand was thereafter impossible.

 

Do you know any ways out without getting an exit stamp? Drive through a field or buy a small watercraft?

 

i think ink the next country would turn you back without an exit stamp, bit I don't think you could be forced back. Not sure how this would play out. Maybe they would detain you until you got a plane ticket and escort you to the airport, that would work.

 

if it was your home country I believe they would let you in regardless.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Dick Crank

[Kwasaki]

17 minutes ago, mstevens said:

all communications would have to be in Thai and you'd need a Thai lawyer

That's why I suggest to carry on writing himself if he hopes for it to be resolved so he can come back to Thailand if he want to.

A Thai lawyer may want 20,000 - 30,000 baht up front so obviously not worth the hiring of one.

Maybe @  prakhonchai nick could chip in.

 

[observer90210]

Remember, in Thailand the police are as croked as the crooks....so flee and stay out of this corrupt country.

[akirasan]

OP am I right in assuming you didn't use a bitcoin exchange? If you did, can you tell us which one you used please?

How did you sell the bitcoins online? And how did you transfer them to this persons wallet?

I'm trying to understand your situation and how to help you

[phycokiller]

this seems to be an ongoing scam that the police have using localbitcoins.com. personally I just transfer small amounts to my account and remove them immediately. also make sure the person you are dealing with has a reputation. Its good to know about and good luck.

[JimmyJ]

55 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Obviously the same guy

Yes, clearly.

 

But there are also a few more stories in that thread of others who have had similar problems using localbitcoins.com in Thailand.

 

Thank you for making these posts OP.

It's a good warning for me to stay far away from Localbitcoins.com in Thailand.

 

One thing that alarmed me about one of the Thai BTC exchanges - and this may be the case for all of them - is that they put out a statement that all fiat deposited had to be able to be shown as having originated in Thailand, and all crypto and/or fiat cashed out has to stay in Thailand, and people using the exchange must agree to this.

 

 

Stories like the OP's make me feel very nervous about depositing 28k USD or whatever it is currently for the Retirement Visa/Extension/whatever the correct term (too lazy to check my notes now).

(Unrelated to BTC, but related to banking/police issues and farangs).

 

[foreigner891]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

You did this in writing already? And also received a reply in writing?

The response was an arrest warrant.

[jerry921]

What about contacting the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok?

 

[Cereal]

You're Canadian and in Canada. I have two pieces of advice. One, learn some basic grammar and two, stay away from Thailand.